USA Wrestling's Statement on Social Justice

[Rhino80]

I find it ludacris that everyone "needs" to put out a statement to tell the world what every American should feel anyway. I support human decency for every human regardless of color, sex, or religion. No Sh*t. If someone didn't do you think you they would put it on blast for the world to see. I am white. I have no idea what it feels like to be a black person in America. I am not going to make a statement and tell anyone how they feel or should feel. Words have very little effect on the grand scheme of things.

What can I do. I do my best to treat people the way I would want to be treated. Its kinda that simple. There are giant pieces of garbage in every race, try not to be one.

 

[js8793]

I want to say just a couple things.
1) When you say Colin protested peacefully and people had a fit, you can also mention that many people applauded him. The country is pretty divided and someone always seems to be on the other side of every argument.
2) The problem most people had with Colin is that he was not accomplishing anything. Where as many people think the looting is horrific and needs to stop, I am going to guess that it will invoke change. There is a lot of pain to go around here. Almost everyone feels pain for George Floyd and almost everyone feels pain for innocent people killed in the riots and people who lost their business etc in the looting. As much as I hate to see the message (of police brutality) hijacked by Antifa and BLM, I am going to guess that some laws will be changed. Who knows what will happen or if it will help, but action is going to be taken.
3) Until we start to see what the real problems are and discuss them and work to solve them, the problems will not go away. Focusing on being black as a problem is foolish! Why? Because it cannot be solved. You are born black and you will die black (Michael jackson as the possible exception). Being denied a job or coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery, or being sent to sub standard schools - those are problems that can be solved or at least addressed.
4) The race with the most single parent homes and the most leaders telling them that their misery and problems are someone else fault happens to be the race that takes the most generations to get out of poverty and the happens to be the black community. Lets work to solve those problems and see what happens.

2)This is manifestly untrue and it's hard to take the rest of your post seriously after reading it. The conservative backlash to Kaepernick was not that he "wasn't doing enough" to combat police brutality. It was that he was disrespecting the flag and troops (even though he consulted military members about how to protest respectfully and they recommended kneeling). The fact that you feel this movement has been hijacked by BLM and Antifa shows how delusional you are. The FBI found no evidence of significant Antifa instigation and BLM isn't hijacking the movement because this IS their movement.

Not even going to get into the racist stereotypes you made about the black community with no understanding of the historical and politcal reasons for those very problems. Hint: poor rural white communities are now going through the exact same issues as the urban black community has been because the same economic and political effects have reached their communities too. Deindustrialization/worsening economic situation leads to poverty. Poverty leads to drugs and petty crime. Crime leads to increased police presence, increased incarceration, and harsh sentences. Increased incarceration erodes the social fabric of the community. The eroded social fabric then doubles back to the beginning of the list and makes the effects listed even stronger. It is a reinforcing cycle that can be traced historically and ignoring that by chalking these issues to simple matters of personal moral failing perpetuates that cycle.

 

[js8793]

I've now been to a few protests and have talked to a lot of friends who live in NYC, Chicago, and LA. We all have the same experience. As long as the cops stay away from the protest, it remains peaceful. If the cops approach the protests wearing riot gear, things get violent.

I had a friend who was at a protest for 4 hours with a couple thousand people at least. There were guest speakers, music, food, singing, and dancing. No violence or looting whatsoever. Then, without warning, an army of cops in riot gear showed up and started firing tear gas into the crowd (tear gas is a literal war crime btw, yet is somehow legal for our cops to use).

 

[js8793]

That said, Liex doesn’t have the power of the state behind him. There is some scary shit going on when we have some policing forces in streets of our major cities that seem to be totally out of control and others who cannot be identified by badge or name tag (it appears there are random SORT teams from the Bureau of Prisons that have been brought into some areas). This isn’t paranoid stuff - people have at least been able to spot small identifying patches from actual federal prisons). I guess if you can’t get the military to do your bidding, you gather up these rag-tag outfits that are not beholden to an elected official like a Governor. What next - “contractors” from Erik Prince’s company?

I say this as a 52 year old, white, somewhat old school guy who is now a moderate but worked on Capitol Hill for conservative senators. I’m pretty appalled at the current situation and it’s not the protestors who concern me. Liex is right - some very noxious ideologies have been given some life recently, but at least they’re now in the open.

I believe Lightfoot in Chicago has also brought in "private security" forces. They claim they are only going to protect businesses, but I'm very concerned.

 

[dicemen99]

I find it ludacris that everyone "needs" to put out a statement to tell the world what every American should feel anyway. I support human decency for every human regardless of color, sex, or religion. No Sh*t. If someone didn't do you think you they would put it on blast for the world to see. I am white. I have no idea what it feels like to be a black person in America. I am not going to make a statement and tell anyone how they feel or should feel. Words have very little effect on the grand scheme of things.

What can I do. I do my best to treat people the way I would want to be treated. Its kinda that simple. There are giant pieces of garbage in every race, try not to be one.

While I appreciate your attitude in regards to the golden rule, an isolationist philosophy only serves to preserve the status quo.

If you're happy the way things are, so be it. If not, you may feel the need to help be a catalyst of change. This right - manifested in the forms defined by the SCOTUS - should be protected fiercely.

I disagree about the power of the spoken or written word. That's been shown over and over in history.

 

[Thenightking]

Ya know I keep trying to stay away from this post ,but, the three posts above this by js8793 are a big load of crap and low information propaganda. I am so sick of hearing these protests are peaceful- they are not. Ask all the innocent people who have been assaulted trying to protect there businesses. The police show up because as soon as it gets dark these "peaceful protests turn into riots and looting! They always start peaceful but end up very different. Mayor Lightfoot bringing in private security to protect businesses may be the funniest thing I have read on this forum, if you have a business in Chicago don"t wait for that private security to show up.

 

[Lyons212]

2)This is manifestly untrue and it's hard to take the rest of your post seriously after reading it. The conservative backlash to Kaepernick was not that he "wasn't doing enough" to combat police brutality. It was that he was disrespecting the flag and troops (even though he consulted military members about how to protest respectfully and they recommended kneeling). The fact that you feel this movement has been hijacked by BLM and Antifa shows how delusional you are. The FBI found no evidence of significant Antifa instigation and BLM isn't hijacking the movement because this IS their movement.

Not even going to get into the racist stereotypes you made about the black community with no understanding of the historical and politcal reasons for those very problems. Hint: poor rural white communities are now going through the exact same issues as the urban black community has been because the same economic and political effects have reached their communities too. Deindustrialization/worsening economic situation leads to poverty. Poverty leads to drugs and petty crime. Crime leads to increased police presence, increased incarceration, and harsh sentences. Increased incarceration erodes the social fabric of the community. The eroded social fabric then doubles back to the beginning of the list and makes the effects listed even stronger. It is a reinforcing cycle that can be traced historically and ignoring that by chalking these issues to simple matters of personal moral failing perpetuates that cycle.

As a conservative, my backlash against Kaepernick and the kneeling is simply I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained. Same goes for the academy awards. We get bombarded with political statements everyday, you can't avoid it in social media, it is all over the news, is it too much to ask to keep it out of entertainment? As I posted, when the employer allows political speech, they cannot get upset when someone decides to engage in political speech that is not popular. What if a player decides to give a Nazi salute instead of kneeling, the employer has already said that political speech is acceptable. That is a road you don't want to go down.

You are spot on about poverty. Everyone should read the book "Carry On" by Lisa Fenn about two disabled high school wrestlers in Cleveland. Eye Opening. There was an ESPN short about it and can be found on YouTube. After reading that, I have no idea how you fix poverty on a large scale, I don't even know if you can. The problems most of us on this board cannot even comprehend.

There is no doubt that the government intentionally made sure that blacks would struggle economically when emancipated and kept that way for generations. All the Civil Rights legislation and resulting welfare programs were also implemented knowing it would create a government dependent class going forward, which would be mostly blacks. The ongoing criminalization of drug possession and locking people up is also intentionally ensuring that the poor remain poor.

True story. Ed Norris who is a sports host in Baltimore was also the Baltimore City Police Commissioner. He tells a story of being told to set up stings to pick up the people buying drugs in Baltimore. He was told to shut it down because it was catching too many white people from the suburbs. Norris himself was the target of very questionable law enforcement tactics and served time in federal prison.

Marcus Cobb friend of Tim Shaw and is mentioned in his book, calls it the mentality of poverty. Cobb came from poverty himself and has overcome it. It is amazing the stupid decisions poor people make. A girl I coached, I know her family is very poor, father was an alcoholic, they actually rented from one of my family members and often did not pay the rent. She is talking about getting a tattoo, says it will cost $250, I am just shaking my head since I know they do not have 2 nickels to rub together. To her that made sense over helping pay for food or saving for college.

 

[seeyajohn]

I think that this video expresses the problem better than anything that I have seen.

 

[dicemen99]

As a conservative, my backlash against Kaepernick and the kneeling is simply I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained. Same goes for the academy awards. We get bombarded with political statements everyday, you can't avoid it in social media, it is all over the news, is it too much to ask to keep it out of entertainment? As I posted, when the employer allows political speech, they cannot get upset when someone decides to engage in political speech that is not popular. What if a player decides to give a Nazi salute instead of kneeling, the employer has already said that political speech is acceptable. That is a road you don't want to go down.

You are spot on about poverty. Everyone should read the book "Carry On" by Lisa Fenn about two disabled high school wrestlers in Cleveland. Eye Opening. There was an ESPN short about it and can be found on YouTube. After reading that, I have no idea how you fix poverty on a large scale, I don't even know if you can. The problems most of us on this board cannot even comprehend.

There is no doubt that the government intentionally made sure that blacks would struggle economically when emancipated and kept that way for generations. All the Civil Rights legislation and resulting welfare programs were also implemented knowing it would create a government dependent class going forward, which would be mostly blacks. The ongoing criminalization of drug possession and locking people up is also intentionally ensuring that the poor remain poor.

True story. Ed Norris who is a sports host in Baltimore was also the Baltimore City Police Commissioner. He tells a story of being told to set up stings to pick up the people buying drugs in Baltimore. He was told to shut it down because it was catching too many white people from the suburbs. Norris himself was the target of very questionable law enforcement tactics and served time in federal prison.

Marcus Cobb friend of Tim Shaw and is mentioned in his book, calls it the mentality of poverty. Cobb came from poverty himself and has overcome it. It is amazing the stupid decisions poor people make. A girl I coached, I know her family is very poor, father was an alcoholic, they actually rented from one of my family members and often did not pay the rent. She is talking about getting a tattoo, says it will cost $250, I am just shaking my head since I know they do not have 2 nickels to rub together. To her that made sense over helping pay for food or saving for college.

If all conservatives framed their argument against Kapernick the way you do, I doubt many would take issue with it. I myself do not take issue with your stance.

The problem is that this was certainly not the prevalent tone of anti-Kapernick sentiment being voiced. Not in the media, not on social media, not by our leaders, not by most of the conservative friends and family I have. It may have been the stance of the business leaders - the owners - affected by this, but they certainly didn't show any inclination to put that out there front and center.

And that is why - again - we are talking about a divide on this issue. Maybe your experience has been different.

 

[El-Jefe]

While I appreciate your attitude in regards to the golden rule, an isolationist philosophy only serves to preserve the status quo.

If you're happy the way things are, so be it. If not, you may feel the need to help be a catalyst of change. This right - manifested in the forms defined by the SCOTUS - should be protected fiercely.

I disagree about the power of the spoken or written word. That's been shown over and over in history.

Decades of spoken words with little to no tangible effect or accountability is a big part of how we ended up here.

These are more empty messages.

For example, I don't believe for a second that Target (HQ in Minneapolis) will lobby hard against the mayor and governor if they fail to make effective changes to end abuse and make the police effective (clearly both are needed). Nor will Target even threaten to pull its HQ out of the city or state.

I mean, if Target exerted any influence on the founder's great grandson -- who was governor during the Castile and Damond police shootings -- it isn't apparent.

Same here in Philly as I'm sure you know, since you're on the opposite side of the suburbs from me. Comcast will likely donate airtime for messaging about the subject. But they are completely in bed with the City of Philadelphia and will do zero to hold Kinney or any city councilmen accountable for fixing decades of police excesses here.

Call me a cynic, but it;s far more likely that both city's mayors demand a federal bailout for their own incompetence, with both companies snout-deep at the trough.

 

[dicemen99]

Decades of spoken words with little to no tangible effect or accountability is a big part of how we ended up here.

These are more empty messages.

For example, I don't believe for a second that Target (HQ in Minneapolis) will lobby hard against the mayor and governor if they fail to make effective changes to end abuse and make the police effective (clearly both are needed). Nor will Target even threaten to pull its HQ out of the city or state.

I mean, if Target exerted any influence on the founder's great grandson -- who was governor during the Castile and Damond police shootings -- it isn't apparent.

Same here in Philly as I'm sure you know, since you're on the opposite side of the suburbs from me. Comcast will likely donate airtime for messaging about the subject. But they are completely in bed with the City of Philadelphia and will do zero to hold Kinney or any city councilmen accountable for fixing decades of police excesses here.

I competely agree. But I don't think that's much different from what I'm saying. The prevalent message - spoken or written - holds sway.

To change that message is no easy task. But it has been accomplished from time to time when necessary.

 

[JohnBasedow]

 

[Chickenman Testa]

View embedded media

That’s my Quarterback!!

 

[js8793]

That’s my Quarterback!!

Pretty good statement, but I have a feeling he may get some backlash for not dropping them completely as some of the other athletes are doing. Tough spot to be in with a lot of money on the line, but I think he would pick up another deal really quick if he wanted to drop them.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

At this point gloves off.

"coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery"
A description of black people by a poster that most wouldn't consider racist (the poster, not the post) is indicative of the problem.

"I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained"
**** YOUR ENTERTAINMENT.
These are our lives.

"I should probably stop right now"
But you didn't.

Unfortunately this isn't just an inconvenience, politics or talking points for those that have to deal with it.

I'm very uninterested in someone that hasn't dealt with what I'm dealing with telling me best how to deal with it as not to inconvenience them- especially when they are a large part of the problem.

Regardless how you feel about protestors/rioters/looters (different groups of people) they did accomplish something that simple protests and discussions hadn't till this point which was make so much noise you gotta hear it whether you want to or not. There has been more action in the last 3 days than the last 3 years because it affects everyone now.

 

[AgSurfer]

Wow! DT is very articulate! Great wrestler, (obviously) but I didn't know that part about him.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

At this point gloves off.

"coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery"
A description of black people by a poster that most wouldn't consider racist (the poster, not the post) is indicative of the problem.

"I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained"
**** YOUR ENTERTAINMENT.
These are our lives.

"I should probably stop right now"
But you didn't.

Unfortunately this isn't just an inconvenience, politics or talking points for those that have to deal with it.

I'm very uninterested in someone that hasn't dealt with what I'm dealing with telling me best how to deal with it as not to inconvenience them- especially when they are a large part of the problem.

Regardless how you feel about protestors/rioters/looters (different groups of people) they did accomplish something that simple protests and discussions hadn't till this point which was make so much noise you gotta hear it whether you want to or not. There has been more action in the last 3 days than the last 3 years because it affects everyone now.

Good to have your input on here Slim. Did you see the huge protest crowds in my fine home city of Philadelphia? Imagine the crowd without Covid. My sister and her kids are down there sweating bullets, but doing me proud.

Thinking about you and your family (and others) at this time. Stay safe and (a little throwback to our younger days):

 

[86PSUPaul]

Ok PapaBear, how about hearing about white privilege from a black guy?

https://www.prageru.com/video/how-to-end-white-privilege/

plus, you say more action in the last three day, exactly what was that action and what were the positive results?

also, with respect to David’s tweet/ post, not the scrap.ife guy did it on the scraplife facebook page, so, he wasn’t allowed to do it on a company platform.... see a parallel to Kaepernick?

 

[PSUer1989]

I went to this yesterday with my daughter. It was pouring rain 30 minutes before it began, with lightening around us. It was peaceful and the young people who organized it did a tremendous job. The police were present but did not interfere in any manner. It is a shame that the marches where riots and violence occurs gets most of the media attention.

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/n...cle_94b78d00-9b96-5a0d-9a00-86576148b184.html

 

[Lyons212]

If all conservatives framed their argument against Kapernick the way you do, I doubt many would take issue with it. I myself do not take issue with your stance.

The problem is that this was certainly not the prevalent tone of anti-Kapernick sentiment being voiced. Not in the media, not on social media, not by our leaders, not by most of the conservative friends and family I have. It may have been the stance of the business leaders - the owners - affected by this, but they certainly didn't show any inclination to put that out there front and center.

And that is why - again - we are talking about a divide on this issue. Maybe your experience has been different.

To me it comes down to, I do not have to agree with somebody's political position, I do have to accept their right to have that position. Too many conservatives forget the intent of the Constitution, it is all about ensuring that we the people have individual rights. Too many people of every political persuasion forget that.

People can argue over whether a private employer should allow political speech in the workplace (I don't think they should). The NFL is very careful about its image, there is a reason why they do not allow its athletes to do endorse products using a NFL logo or even team name.

Of course decisions have consequences, will be interesting how this plays out. I would not be surprised if the NFL does what most colleges team do and the national anthem is played with the players in the locker room.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

To me it comes down to, I do not have to agree with somebody's political position, I do have to accept their right to have that position. Too many conservatives forget the intent of the Constitution, it is all about ensuring that we the people have individual rights. Too many people of every political persuasion forget that.

People can argue over whether a private employer should allow political speech in the workplace (I don't think they should). The NFL is very careful about its image, there is a reason why they do not allow its athletes to do endorse products using a NFL logo or even team name.

Of course decisions have consequences, will be interesting how this plays out. I would not be surprised if the NFL does what most colleges team do and the national anthem is played with the players in the locker room.

Let me know what they decide, my NFL watching days ceased the day Alejandro Villanueva STOOD alone in the Steelers tunnel

 

[Dogwelder]

Wow! DT is very articulate! Great wrestler, (obviously) but I didn't know that part about him.

Now we gotta wonder: is he a better articulator than he is a wrestler?

 

[oldcougar65]

I formed my ideas about race back in the 60's. I was a youth for goldwater, pull-yourself-up-by-your bootstraps true believer. Then I got a summer job lugging around bundles of heavywall conduit in North Philly. This was a company where there wasn't a white face on the street for maybe 15 blocks in any direction. But the company was entirely white, except for the truck drivers (the face of the company on the street). The truck drivers were intelligent, articulate, gentlemen who always took time for me, some white-priviliged college kid.The white workers were urban rednecks of the worst order. I saw the poverty and deprivation in the neighborhoods around me. That's when my arrogant whiteness broke down. I remember thinking, "if it were me, I'd be rioting right now! This is too awful to bear." And 50 years later, nothing has changed.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Ok PapaBear, how about hearing about white privilege from a black guy?

https://www.prageru.com/video/how-to-end-white-privilege/

plus, you say more action in the last three day, exactly what was that action and what were the positive results?

also, with respect to David’s tweet/ post, not the scrap.ife guy did it on the scraplife facebook page, so, he wasn’t allowed to do it on a company platform.... see a parallel to Kaepernick?

You compared Beshada to Kaep.
We are are done here.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

At this point gloves off.

"coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery"
A description of black people by a poster that most wouldn't consider racist (the poster, not the post) is indicative of the problem.

"I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained"
**** YOUR ENTERTAINMENT.
These are our lives.

"I should probably stop right now"
But you didn't.

Unfortunately this isn't just an inconvenience, politics or talking points for those that have to deal with it.

I'm very uninterested in someone that hasn't dealt with what I'm dealing with telling me best how to deal with it as not to inconvenience them- especially when they are a large part of the problem.

Regardless how you feel about protestors/rioters/looters (different groups of people) they did accomplish something that simple protests and discussions hadn't till this point which was make so much noise you gotta hear it whether you want to or not. There has been more action in the last 3 days than the last 3 years because it affects everyone now.

Thank you PBS for sharing your thoughts.

 

[82bordeaux]

Obviously this topic holds a lot of emotion for a lot of people regardless of where each of us stands. I'm amazed at the overall civility the posters on this forum have exhibited. From admitted polar-opposite positions on political leanings, to religion, and race, BWI posters have largely been thoughtful, respectful, and articulate in their written words. And when you drill down through some of these thoughts, you see common threads throughout almost all of them. We agree on more than we disagree.
I always knew that the Penn State community was the greatest alumni/fan base in the world. I know that we have the greatest wrestling program in the NCAA. I know that University Park is the most magical campus in the nation. But now I also know that all of you are members of the greatest athletic forum online. I'm proud to consider you all online friends. Just like in real life, we have friends we are closely aligned with, friends we love to argue with, friends that are more than a little nuts. But it makes our lives better and more interesting. Thank you all for making my time on-line better each and every day. WE ARE!!!

 

[86PSUPaul]

You compared Beshada to Kaep.
We are are done here.

That is not at all what I said, but go ahead and take that stance and shut down communication, that is productive....

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Obviously this topic holds a lot of emotion for a lot of people regardless of where each of us stands. I'm amazed at the overall civility the posters on this forum have exhibited. From admitted polar-opposite positions on political leanings, to religion, and race, BWI posters have largely been thoughtful, respectful, and articulate in their written words. And when you drill down through some of these thoughts, you see common threads throughout almost all of them. We agree on more than we disagree. I always knew that the Penn State community was the greatest alumni/fan base in the world. I know that we have the greatest wrestling program in the NCAA. I know that University Park is the most magical campus in the nation. But now I also know that all of you are members of the greatest athletic forum online. I'm proud to consider you all online friends. Just like in real life, we have friends we are closely aligned with, friends we love to argue with, friends that are more than a little nuts. But it makes our lives better and more interesting. Thank you all for making my time on-line better each and every day. WE ARE!!!

I really appreciate your positivity in these Twilight Zone times. But please use some paragraphs the next time you go on an ode!

 

[82bordeaux]

I really appreciate your positivity in these Twilight Zone times. But please use some paragraphs the next time you go on an ode!

Sorry, early morning typing. My mother was a teacher her whole life. Probably spinning in her grave!

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Sorry, early morning typing. My mother was a teacher her whole life. Probably spinning in her grave!

Its all good. Teaching is the noblest of professions.

 

[Lyons212]

At this point gloves off.

"coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery"
A description of black people by a poster that most wouldn't consider racist (the poster, not the post) is indicative of the problem.

"I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained"
**** YOUR ENTERTAINMENT.
These are our lives.

"I should probably stop right now"
But you didn't.

Unfortunately this isn't just an inconvenience, politics or talking points for those that have to deal with it.

I'm very uninterested in someone that hasn't dealt with what I'm dealing with telling me best how to deal with it as not to inconvenience them- especially when they are a large part of the problem.

Regardless how you feel about protestors/rioters/looters (different groups of people) they did accomplish something that simple protests and discussions hadn't till this point which was make so much noise you gotta hear it whether you want to or not. There has been more action in the last 3 days than the last 3 years because it affects everyone now.

A huge part of the problem is that people like you cannot have a discussion and have no interest in hearing what the other side has to say. Maybe the other side has ideas.

Regarding being bombarded with someone's political statement, how would you feel if you walked into a store and all the employees were wearing MAGA hats, are you okay with that? Probably not, I am not either. But at least I am consistent on when political protest is acceptable and it is not based on if I agree with it or not.

You don't know the background of any of us. I lost a promotion at work, the person who made the decision told me "off the record" that they had to hire a minority.

My wife is a pharmacist, worked by a person of Indian descent who owned half dozen pharmacies. He assigned by wife to one pharmacy because she would fit in better with those type of people (poor white people).

I have had the pleasure of getting called to my sons high school because he was in tears because he was getting bullied on social media. He is far more liberal than me.

I recently had the disappointment of my high school daughter ending her friendship with a really good friend over a difference of politics. Nothing to do with how she was treated or how she treated other people, all about her friend believing something different. The other girl was absolutely crushed. Hopefully sanity returns there.

As previously posted, I have been falsely arrested by the police. I point that out to my very liberal children. I readily acknowledge the abuses of law enforcement can happen to anyone. Lot of Branch Davidians who can relate, of course about 80 them died at the hands of law enforcement. They don't count because they are mostly white. Same for Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver and Justine Damond.

The left also likes to ignore all the young black men killed by other young black men. How about David Dorn and William Patterson, two black men killed by the mob protecting property. Nothing to get concerned about because their deaths did not help the narrative.

I recently pointed out to my daughter, lots of complaints of high number of people in prison, particularly black males, many for non-violent crimes. I proposed a possible solution, there is nothing stopping any Governor from commuting or issuing pardons for non-violent offenders. Tom Wolf joins the protests, has he considered anything like that? All these left wing governors, mayors, DA's could arbitrarily decide that they are not going to prosecute simple drug possession crimes, other than a few places, that has not happened and is not discussed.

Somehow the conservative white guy comes up that as a solution to improve society that can be implemented right now without any legislation since it is a power of the executive (see where using the Constitution comes in handy).

Nancy Pelosi is going to introduce legislation this week to ban racial profiling and end police brutality. Two things that can be really hard to quantify and could make it more difficult for the police to do their jobs. But it sounds good, yet if implemented, every city in the country will then become Baltimore, that will be good for stability and economic development.

How bout some legislation such as this just as a start:
1. End no knock raids, or at a minimum require multiple sign-offs on the warrant ensuring right house, suspect is there. This prevents the Breonna Taylor tragedy.
2. Remove Qualified immunity from all levels of government. This removes the get out of jail free card for the police and prevents I feared for my life defense, too bad it was a cell phone in his hand.
3. Legalize drugs, we all know the war on drugs has been a failure.

I do know this, if you want a one sided discussion on how to fix problems and not include half the country, it will not work because the other side will not participate, will resent it and probably push back.

Don't repeat the mistakes of the previous hundreds of years to advance your agenda. If you do and succeed it will ultimately fail too.

 

[lookleft goright]

At this point gloves off.

"coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery"
A description of black people by a poster that most wouldn't consider racist (the poster, not the post) is indicative of the problem.
This is a problem with these types of conversations. It is difficult to totally describe a situation. I do not feel my comments were a description of "black people" but rather it was a description of people who are living in a situation with a downward spiral. The problems I mentioned lead to continued poverty and the problems that go with it. I was trying to distinguish between being black as the problem and living in/with those conditions of poverty as the problem. I am sorry if it came across that I was lumping all blacks in to a category. I was trying to state that the problem is people are living in poverty and in terrible situations for generations and we need to work towards solving these problems and not get distracted by race. If it is always happening to one race and only one race, then we need to address that problem. If martians migrated to Earth and living in the conditions I stated, they would have the same problems as the black community is having now, I believe. Like I said a few times earlier - lets try to solve the problem and being black is not a solvable problem. You will always be black ( Michael Jackson excluded). The other problems hopefully can and will be solved.

"I do not want to be bombarded with someone's political statement when I want to be entertained"
**** YOUR ENTERTAINMENT.
These are our lives.

"I should probably stop right now"
But you didn't.

Unfortunately this isn't just an inconvenience, politics or talking points for those that have to deal with it.

I'm very uninterested in someone that hasn't dealt with what I'm dealing with telling me best how to deal with it as not to inconvenience them- especially when they are a large part of the problem.
It has been amazing to me to watch the number of black people telling blacks that they should not do the looting and they are setting the "movement" back many years and then simultaneously watch a bunch of white people say they agree with the blacks and we (white people) should be ashamed of ourselves and we are racist and need to support the black community and the protestors. It has been fascinating to watch this unfold.

Regardless how you feel about protestors/rioters/looters (different groups of people) they did accomplish something that simple protests and discussions hadn't till this point which was make so much noise you gotta hear it whether you want to or not. There has been more action in the last 3 days than the last 3 years because it affects everyone now.
You are completely on the money with this. Unless it affects people on a personal level, change won't happen. The riots have affected people. Just to be clear, my wife and I slept with our guns loaded and by our sides for the past few nights, but that does not mean I do not understand the need for riots. When people have that much anger squashed down inside them, it is only a matter of time before it rises to the surface. In my opinion it would've been better to attack police stations or courthouses or the houses and mayors, governors, and other politicians Of course, when people are angry they are not thinking as clearly and they are not planning, so things just happen. Hopefully, we as a country can get on the same page and agree what the problem is and work towards it. My feeling is that police brutality and an overly militaristic police force are a problem. Stop sending people to jail or prison for drug crimes. The people also need a way to step in when a police man is out of line, without the person being in fear of their life and/or going to jail. Many of these problems could be solved with more personal freedom (I think) and many need different government policies.

 

[oldcougar65]

Lyons212 is correct. The politization of EVERYTHING is tearing this country apart. I've read several polls recently that highlight how divided this country is. A heavy majority of Democrats wear masks. A heavy majority of Republicans refuse to wear masks. The world medical community -including those advising the President - advises that everyone should wear a mask, so it would seem that reasonable people of any political stripe should be wearing masks. Donald trump doesn't wear a mask because it isn't a good look for him.

If you are a Republican not wearing a mask, what is your reason? Not a good look for you?

btw, this morning's poll (quoted on Meet the Press) said: 7% of Democrats don't wear a mask. 83% of Republicans don't wear a mask. I'm not making this crap up.

 

[lookleft goright]

A huge part of the problem is that people like you cannot have a discussion and have no interest in hearing what the other side has to say. Maybe the other side has ideas.

Regarding being bombarded with someone's political statement, how would you feel if you walked into a store and all the employees were wearing MAGA hats, are you okay with that? Probably not, I am not either. But at least I am consistent on when political protest is acceptable and it is not based on if I agree with it or not.

You don't know the background of any of us. I lost a promotion at work, the person who made the decision told me "off the record" that they had to hire a minority.

My wife is a pharmacist, worked by a person of Indian descent who owned half dozen pharmacies. He assigned by wife to one pharmacy because she would fit in better with those type of people (poor white people).

I have had the pleasure of getting called to my sons high school because he was in tears because he was getting bullied on social media. He is far more liberal than me.

I recently had the disappointment of my high school daughter ending her friendship with a really good friend over a difference of politics. Nothing to do with how she was treated or how she treated other people, all about her friend believing something different. The other girl was absolutely crushed. Hopefully sanity returns there.

As previously posted, I have been falsely arrested by the police. I point that out to my very liberal children. I readily acknowledge the abuses of law enforcement can happen to anyone. Lot of Branch Davidians who can relate, of course about 80 them died at the hands of law enforcement. They don't count because they are mostly white. Same for Tony Timpa, Daniel Shaver and Justine Damond.

The left also likes to ignore all the young black men killed by other young black men. How about David Dorn and William Patterson, two black men killed by the mob protecting property. Nothing to get concerned about because their deaths did not help the narrative.

I recently pointed out to my daughter, lots of complaints of high number of people in prison, particularly black males, many for non-violent crimes. I proposed a possible solution, there is nothing stopping any Governor from commuting or issuing pardons for non-violent offenders. Tom Wolf joins the protests, has he considered anything like that? All these left wing governors, mayors, DA's could arbitrarily decide that they are not going to prosecute simple drug possession crimes, other than a few places, that has not happened and is not discussed.

Somehow the conservative white guy comes up that as a solution to improve society that can be implemented right now without any legislation since it is a power of the executive (see where using the Constitution comes in handy).

Nancy Pelosi is going to introduce legislation this week to ban racial profiling and end police brutality. Two things that can be really hard to quantify and could make it more difficult for the police to do their jobs. But it sounds good, yet if implemented, every city in the country will then become Baltimore, that will be good for stability and economic development.

How bout some legislation such as this just as a start:
1. End no knock raids, or at a minimum require multiple sign-offs on the warrant ensuring right house, suspect is there. This prevents the Breonna Taylor tragedy.
2. Remove Qualified immunity from all levels of government. This removes the get out of jail free card for the police and prevents I feared for my life defense, too bad it was a cell phone in his hand.
3. Legalize drugs, we all know the war on drugs has been a failure.

I do know this, if you want a one sided discussion on how to fix problems and not include half the country, it will not work because the other side will not participate, will resent it and probably push back.

Don't repeat the mistakes of the previous hundreds of years to advance your agenda. If you do and succeed it will ultimately fail too.

OH OH!! As a conservative, I had some of the same suggestions. That means they must be wrong.

Getting rid of qualified immunity is a huge one.

I do not say legalize drugs, but not making them prison sentences seems like a good option. Maybe make it a prison sentence if selling it to minors. Sort of like sex. Sex isn't a crime but an adult should not be having it with a child. Just common sense for a civilization.

It is hard to set up the rules of engagement for dangerous raids. I do not think any police officer wants to break into the wrong house and Ido not think they want to walk into gunfire - so no knock raids is a tough one. Of course, if qualified immunity was off the table, I am guessing they would be much more careful when deciding which door to break down. Some tough decisions have to be made and the direction our society is going needs to be thought about.
I really feel like we are way to militaristic with our police and the gov't is trying to gain more and more control over our lives. The level that they are trying to force people to stay inside during a virus threat tells me that they have really placed our freedom behind many other things and that will lead to disaster. IMHO The struggle for power of gov't and the power for the people has been going on since people and gov't were invented.

 

[lookleft goright]

I formed my ideas about race back in the 60's. I was a youth for goldwater, pull-yourself-up-by-your bootstraps true believer. Then I got a summer job lugging around bundles of heavywall conduit in North Philly. This was a company where there wasn't a white face on the street for maybe 15 blocks in any direction. But the company was entirely white, except for the truck drivers (the face of the company on the street). The truck drivers were intelligent, articulate, gentlemen who always took time for me, some white-priviliged college kid.The white workers were urban rednecks of the worst order. I saw the poverty and deprivation in the neighborhoods around me. That's when my arrogant whiteness broke down. I remember thinking, "if it were me, I'd be rioting right now! This is too awful to bear." And 50 years later, nothing has changed.

So the question to me is - "Why has nothing changed"? The country is no where near as racist as it was in the 60's. That leaves gov't policies and the leaders of the black community to be looked at as possible impediments to improving the situation. Am I wrong? Ideas?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

So the question to me is - "Why has nothing changed"? The country is no where near as racist as it was in the 60's. That leaves gov't policies and the leaders of the black community to be looked at as possible impediments to improving the situation. Am I wrong? Ideas?

Oh, the racism never went away - it just went underground - to far corners of the Pacific Northwest, into militia or white “identity” movements. These groups are now emboldened to come out of their lairs again. I wonder why?

 

[El-Jefe]

Lyons212 is correct. The politization of EVERYTHING is tearing this country apart. I've read several polls recently that highlight how divided this country is. A heavy majority of Democrats wear masks. A heavy majority of Republicans refuse to wear masks. The world medical community -including those advising the President - advises that everyone should wear a mask, so it would seem that reasonable people of any political stripe should be wearing masks. Donald trump doesn't wear a mask because it isn't a good look for him.

If you are a Republican not wearing a mask, what is your reason? Not a good look for you?

btw, this morning's poll (quoted on Meet the Press) said: 7% of Democrats don't wear a mask. 83% of Republicans don't wear a mask. I'm not making this crap up.

And this post is a classic example of the politicization of everything.

PS, maybe apply the BS detector to that poll too. When you see numbers that disparate, either there's a very good reason that should be explored, or they're crap.

"Republicans don't believe in science" is not a good reason. That is the type of politicization that you decry, except when you employ it.

 

[Dogwelder]

... "Republicans don't believe in science" is not a good reason...

The scientific consensus, according to 98% of scientists, is that Republicans hate their grandparents and don’t want long lives for them.

 

[El-Jefe]

The scientific consensus, according to 98% of scientists, is that Republicans hate their grandparents and don’t want long lives for them.

That's what the NBC poll said. So it must be true!

 

[nitlion6]

Several things.
I do not believe there is "white privilege". There is the US Constitution and states' constitutions and white people are afforded the rights guaranteed in those papers much more readily than people of color. Privilege insinuates "white people" receive extra, above and beyond what is guarenteed. It isn't a privilege to receive what you are guaranteed. It is a disgrace we as a society do not demand everybody receive what those constitutions guarantee to everybody. Just an opinion, but "no knock warrants", "civil asset forfeiture laws" and "surveillance laws" all in the name of law and order have already eroded many rights guaranteed in our Constitutions. As a society we would be much farther ahead if we were to demand all people be granted their guaranteed Constitutional rights as opposed to watching silently and complicity as certain rights are stripped from and denied "those other people".

If Kaepernick was making a political statement at work by simply kneeling during the playing of the national anthem, then telling him to shut up and stand up is by default making a political statement.

As far as whether he was accomplishing anything, 4 years later and we are still talking about it. If the entire league had knelt with him, who knows what they accomplish. Black teammates telling Brees to shut the phuck up seems to have had an impact on Drew's perceptions.

To have an entire segment of our society telling us over and over, "hey man, you are treading on us" and for us to reply "ah bullshit" is way beyond asinine. If 50 million folks are saying "get off our necks, we can't breathe" we need to pay attention. They all aren't just making up the same story.

Skin color is pigmentation and is something we simply see. Soul and character are something evaluated through words, actions or behaviors. One is a much better measure of a human being than the other.

Treat everybody the way you wish to be treated and go from there.

Rant done.