What needs to happen to become elite:

[marshall23]

While this is true, what if Clemson had two very questionable calls go against them in the last 3 plays of their 1 pt win vs UNC? To act like these things don't have a large impact on games is disingenious. Sure, PSU could have played much, much better. If the OPI is not called and PSU scores, people would have a very different take on the game and team.

No one likes to have a call determine the outcome of the game. However, you need to understand that there are many keys to victory. For instance, don't throw 3 interceptions on the road. It gets tiresome to see the coaches and officials blamed for every single loss. Let's give some credit to Minnesota for playing a turnover free game and admit that our players need to clean up some issues. Where were the playmakers on defense yesterday? I hope the team takes a more mature approach to the loss and attempts to improve their performance.....looking to blame the officials doesn't cut it.

 

[paws1957]

One thing is certain....every PSU loss is either the fault of the coaches or the officials.

No one likes to have a call determine the outcome of the game. However, you need to understand that there are many keys to victory. For instance, don't throw 3 interceptions on the road. It gets tiresome to see the coaches and officials blamed for every single loss. Let's give some credit to Minnesota for playing a turnover free game and admit that our players need to clean up some issues. Where were the playmakers on defense yesterday? I hope the team takes a more mature approach to the loss and attempts to improve their performance.....looking to blame the officials doesn't cut it.

To be honest ya shouldn't be in the position where one call makes or breaks a game. Play better and ya don't have to worry about it....

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'll take 10-2 or 9-3 every year and have a program with kids we can be proud of. I don't understand PSU fans who want to win every game regardless of character, discipline or academics. You can find a team to cheer for in the NFL if that is your preference. Anyone check out the "Academic" standouts yesterday in the LSU vs Alabama game?

It doesn’t have to be either or. It’s just not going to happen every year either.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

For instance, don't throw 3 interceptions on the road.

Let's look at those interceptions:

1. Shorter doesn't go after the ball and just waits for it to fall. An Allen Robinson type of receiver goes up and makes that catch. What Clifford did is nothing different than what McSorley did, yet Trace gets high praise. Now why at this point in his career is Shorter not going up for the ball? That is the question that needs answered.
2. Hamler was clearly bumped before the ball arrived. Should have been PI. Why did Clifford throw into what amounted to double coverage? Why does he feel a need to target Hamler so much down field? See #1.
3. Game came down to the wire and a TD was needed with little time. Clifford forced the ball as most QBs would do in that situation. What bothered me a bit with that one is that the underneath area of the field was wide open and we have the players to take a shorter throw to the goal line. But we're always looking deep first and throwing downfield hoping for the big play. Why?

Clifford is a better passer than Trace McSorley. That shows in the statistics when comparing their early careers. What I don't like is that we have an offense that not only runs Clifford by design, but allows him to get pounded on far too many plays. That will take its toll on his passing ability, just as it did with Trace. Maybe that's what started to happen yesterday. Either way, it's not good.

I am hoping that our offense changes during the off season, at least in a manner that dramatically enhances our running game. There were enough wacko decisions and play calls yesterday for me to see that realistically happening now. So I guess I see a silver lining to this loss.

 

[marshall23]

Let's look at those interceptions:

1. Shorter doesn't go after the ball and just waits for it to fall. An Allen Robinson type of receiver goes up and makes that catch. What Clifford did is nothing different than what McSorley did, yet Trace gets high praise. Now why at this point in his career is Shorter not going up for the ball? That is the question that needs answered.
2. Hamler was clearly bumped before the ball arrived. Should have been PI. Why did Clifford throw into what amounted to double coverage? Why does he feel a need to target Hamler so much down field? See #1.
3. Game came down to the wire and a TD was needed with little time. Clifford forced the ball as most QBs would do in that situation. What bothered me a bit with that one is that the underneath area of the field was wide open and we have the players to take a shorter throw to the goal line. But we're always looking deep first and throwing downfield hoping for the big play. Why?

Clifford is a better passer than Trace McSorley. That shows in the statistics when comparing their early careers. What I don't like is that we have an offense that not only runs Clifford by design, but allows him to get pounded on far too many plays. That will take its toll on his passing ability, just as it did with Trace. Maybe that's what started to happen yesterday. Either way, it's not good.

I am hoping that our offense changes during the off season, at least in a manner that dramatically enhances our running game. There were enough wacko decisions and play calls yesterday for me to see that realistically happening now. So I guess I see a silver lining to this loss.

I don't look for a silver lining.....a loss is a loss. Victory has many fathers and loss is an orphan. Same players that won 8 and same coaches...losing just empowers the critics. I'm very happy with the team and the coaches. I'm not one who needs to get my "wheaties" from being an elite fan. A tough loss on the road can happen. Could have been earlier. As for the interceptions.....it doesn't matter who or what is at fault....it is simply a fact that you don't win (especially on the road against a top 20 team) with 3 turnovers more than your opponent.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I don't look for a silver lining.....a loss is a loss. Victory has many fathers and loss is an orphan. Same players that won 8 and same coaches...losing just empowers the critics. I'm very happy with the team and the coaches. I'm not one who needs to get my "wheaties" from being an elite fan. A tough loss on the road can happen. Could have been earlier. As for the interceptions.....it doesn't matter who or what is at fault....it is simply a fact that you don't win (especially on the road against a top 20 team) with 3 turnovers more than your opponent.

Well, I spent enough time in industry to know quite a bit about "continuous improvement." In any failure (call it a "loss") one looks at what occurred and tries to identify the root causes. Then those root causes are addressed. Maybe you don't think continuous improvement is important. Or maybe you don't think fans should be discussing such things. Has to be one or the other.

 

[danvillenit]

Let's look at those interceptions:

1. Shorter doesn't go after the ball and just waits for it to fall. An Allen Robinson type of receiver goes up and makes that catch. What Clifford did is nothing different than what McSorley did, yet Trace gets high praise. Now why at this point in his career is Shorter not going up for the ball? That is the question that needs answered.
2. Hamler was clearly bumped before the ball arrived. Should have been PI. Why did Clifford throw into what amounted to double coverage? Why does he feel a need to target Hamler so much down field? See #1.
3. Game came down to the wire and a TD was needed with little time. Clifford forced the ball as most QBs would do in that situation. What bothered me a bit with that one is that the underneath area of the field was wide open and we have the players to take a shorter throw to the goal line. But we're always looking deep first and throwing downfield hoping for the big play. Why?

Clifford is a better passer than Trace McSorley. That shows in the statistics when comparing their early careers. What I don't like is that we have an offense that not only runs Clifford by design, but allows him to get pounded on far too many plays. That will take its toll on his passing ability, just as it did with Trace. Maybe that's what started to happen yesterday. Either way, it's not good.

I am hoping that our offense changes during the off season, at least in a manner that dramatically enhances our running game. There were enough wacko decisions and play calls yesterday for me to see that realistically happening now. So I guess I see a silver lining to this loss.

Just to clarify. The third interception was meant for Dotson underneath and was just a bad throw

 

[marshall23]

Well, I spent enough time in industry to know quite a bit about "continuous improvement." In any failure (call it a "loss") one looks at what occurred and tries to identify the root causes. Then those root causes are addressed. Maybe you don't think continuous improvement is important. Or maybe you don't think fans should be discussing such things. Has to be one or the other.

Fans will discuss it.....but it doesn't mean a damn thing. I've spent a few years in the coaching "industry" and you'd be amazed at how hard we strive to identify and correct the "root" causes of failure. But by and large we are dumb $ucks who need help from fans and parents.

 

[marshall23]

Let's look at those interceptions:

1. Shorter doesn't go after the ball and just waits for it to fall. An Allen Robinson type of receiver goes up and makes that catch. What Clifford did is nothing different than what McSorley did, yet Trace gets high praise. Now why at this point in his career is Shorter not going up for the ball? That is the question that needs answered.
2. Hamler was clearly bumped before the ball arrived. Should have been PI. Why did Clifford throw into what amounted to double coverage? Why does he feel a need to target Hamler so much down field? See #1.
3. Game came down to the wire and a TD was needed with little time. Clifford forced the ball as most QBs would do in that situation. What bothered me a bit with that one is that the underneath area of the field was wide open and we have the players to take a shorter throw to the goal line. But we're always looking deep first and throwing downfield hoping for the big play. Why?

Clifford is a better passer than Trace McSorley. That shows in the statistics when comparing their early careers. What I don't like is that we have an offense that not only runs Clifford by design, but allows him to get pounded on far too many plays. That will take its toll on his passing ability, just as it did with Trace. Maybe that's what started to happen yesterday. Either way, it's not good.

I am hoping that our offense changes during the off season, at least in a manner that dramatically enhances our running game. There were enough wacko decisions and play calls yesterday for me to see that realistically happening now. So I guess I see a silver lining to this loss.

Actually the ball thrown to shorter was slightly behind the path of his route (a post pattern) and he stumbled slightly trying to adjust.....the ball was actually thrown to a spot that gave the DB the advantage....as he was at Shorter's back.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Just to clarify. The third interception was meant for Dotson underneath and was just a bad throw

Dotson was 15 yards down field and inside the 10 yard line. "Beneath" relative to Hamler maybe, but certainly not beneath the coverage. Minnesota had 4 defenders in that area and 7 inside of the 10 yard line. There was a full minute left on the clock, but we went for it all. And yes, like the Hamler interception, I could have noted the likely PI on Dotson. Sure looked like it as it did not appear that he was able to go after the ball and was spun around away from the ball.

But again, this game should not have gotten to this point. I'm looking forward to seeing this Minnesota team play a team with speed and a decent running offense. Hope they get that far. It will be very telling.

 

[wcg207]

I'll take 10-2 or 9-3 every year and have a program with kids we can be proud of. I don't understand PSU fans who want to win every game regardless of character, discipline or academics. You can find a team to cheer for in the NFL if that is your preference. Anyone check out the "Academic" standouts yesterday in the LSU vs Alabama game?

Where is the basis for your assumption that PSU fans want to win regardless of character, discipline or academics? I don't see it. It can be done the right way, see Joe and his Grand Experiment and the 2 NC's he won along with arguably at least 3 others. All it takes is an elite coach.

 

[marshall23]

Where is the basis for your assumption that PSU fans want to win regardless of character, discipline or academics? I don't see it. It can be done the right way, see Joe and his Grand Experiment and the 2 NC's he won along with arguably at least 3 others. All it takes is an elite coach.

Not saying it can't be done. JVP indeed did it 2 times in 45 years. CJF has a few more to work with.

 

[wcg207]

Not saying it can't be done. JVP indeed did it 2 times in 45 years. CJF has a few more to work with.

Let's be a little more accurate ok. Joe had arguably 4 other seasons where without a strong media bias against him and eastern football in general he could have been rewarded with NC's. '68, '69, '73, '94. He was unbeaten those 4 season's and sadly unrewarded. So wait until Franklin wins 2 NC's and has 4 unbeaten seasons and doesn't win NC's and then we'll talk.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

Let's be a little more accurate ok. Joe had arguably 4 other seasons where without a strong media bias against him and eastern football in general he could have been rewarded with NC's. '68, '69, '73, '94. He was unbeaten those 4 season's and sadly unrewarded. So wait until Franklin wins 2 NC's and has 4 unbeaten seasons and doesn't win NC's and then we'll talk.

Good Lord almighty.

JVP was one of the greatest EVER.....in any major American sport. Are you now setting that as the standard? That man had more bowl wins and more perfect seasons than Woody and Bo COMBINED, but now we are expecting CJF to perform at that level.....5 years after devastating sanctions, no less?

Do you realize how insane that sounds?

If a 10-2 normal isn’t good enough for you, then there are maybe 4 programs in America where you might find your standards met.

 

[wcg207]

Good Lord almighty.

JVP was one of the greatest EVER.....in any major American sport. Are you now setting that as the standard? That man had more bowl wins and more perfect seasons than Woody and Bo COMBINED, but now we are expecting CJF to perform at that level.....5 years after devastating sanctions, no less?

Do you realize how insane that sounds?

If a 10-2 normal isn’t good enough for you, then there are maybe 4 programs in America where you might find your standards met.

You're making assumptions without basis, where did i say 10-2 was not good enough? Joe had 10 seasons with 2 losses and that was fine with me. The whole point of my post was to illustrate that putting a football team at the top of the heap occasionally can be done the right way and with honor.

In the future please read all my posts entirely before jumping to unfounded conclusions about my intent. And the reality of the sanctions is they were not as devastating as you think, after all we've never had a losing season during them or since. They were lifted early and Franklin did a commendable job getting back to back 11 win seasons so quickly. All I've said about Franklin in other post is that he is not an elite coach, which any rational person should agree with. Whether he becomes one is for the future to tell us.

My post is not insane at all, just your hyped up unfounded reaction to it.

 

[bmw199]

BUT, many of the usual suspects (not necessarily you) talking about how this team has overachieved and downplaying yesterday’s loss are the same ones who savaged anyone predicting 9-3 or 8-4 this summer. Can’t have it both ways. You don’t get to call sportswriters idiots for predicting PSU to lose a few games and then say PSU is overachieving because they’re doing better than those predictions.

They are roughly where I thought they would be. My point was all the complainers had them worse than this, so what are they complaining about? They are better than the complainers thought they would be.

And you said it, only a loss to IU would make this disappointing, so I’m not having it both ways. It is based on an individuals expectations.

 

[marshall23]

Let's be a little more accurate ok. Joe had arguably 4 other seasons where without a strong media bias against him and eastern football in general he could have been rewarded with NC's. '68, '69, '73, '94. He was unbeaten those 4 season's and sadly unrewarded. So wait until Franklin wins 2 NC's and has 4 unbeaten seasons and doesn't win NC's and then we'll talk.

No one loved Joe more than I did. But he's gone. All the accomplishments you cited couldn't even get him the benefit of the doubt when it mattered. CJF is the coach till the end of the season. Then hopefully he'll leave and the "faithful" will move on to the next target.

 

[sss]

No one likes to have a call determine the outcome of the game. However, you need to understand that there are many keys to victory. For instance, don't throw 3 interceptions on the road. It gets tiresome to see the coaches and officials blamed for every single loss. Let's give some credit to Minnesota for playing a turnover free game and admit that our players need to clean up some issues. Where were the playmakers on defense yesterday? I hope the team takes a more mature approach to the loss and attempts to improve their performance.....looking to blame the officials doesn't cut it.

Thanks for explaining the game to me. I realize that there are more plays than 1 or 2 that determine the outcome of the game. And PSU missed several chances. I acknowledge PSU did not play very well, and MN did. However, it does not change the fact that there were 2 very questionable (re: wrong) on the last 3 plays of the game that had a huge impact on the outcome. Last post on it.

 

[wcg207]

No one loved Joe more than I did. But he's gone. All the accomplishments you cited couldn't even get him the benefit of the doubt when it mattered. CJF is the coach till the end of the season. Then hopefully he'll leave and the "faithful" will move on to the next target.

Just setting the record straight, you said Joe did it twice in 45 years when he actually did it 6 times. All a coach can do is win all his games and if that is not recognized well it's not on him. Yes, we will see what happens as the season plays out.