Wrestling Season

[Tom McAndrew]

Come on Tom - there are so many”rules” and traditions that have been “adjusted” without re-writing regulations since COVID-19 was released. Not raising the hand of the winner would not be an issue.

A few things.

1st, refs don't get to pick and choose which rules they follow. There is some leeway in judgement calls, but not in rules that specify what a ref is required to do
2nd, when I wrote the post to which you are responding in Sep., there was nothing from the NFHS or the PIAA in terms of modifications to the rules regarding raising the hand of the winner. My 2nd paragraph in the post you quoted indicates how such modification would likely come to be for PA.
3rd, as of earlier this week, neither the NFHS nor the PIAA has issued any bulletins indicating specifically that the raising hands rule was being adjusted for this season. At the rules interpretation meeting I attended, the indication from the rules interpreter was that this rule was likely to be adjusted in PA for this season, but that at this time nothing official had been issued by either of the aforementioned bodies.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Can’t the ref just use hand sanitizer between matches? WTF are we doing to our kids?

not that simple. the hand touches the whistle and mouth often during a match. Not too mention laying on the mat, with sweat soaking through your clothes, and any exposed skin surface. A lot of older refs here are sitting this one out.

 

[aalion]

The other points are valid but raising the hand after the match is not.

 

[1032004]

I think it would makes sense for the ref not to raise the wrestlers’ hands. They really don’t need to touch the wrestlers during the rest of the match, so might as well keep it that way and just have the ref raise his own hand of the winning color.

On the other hand, not having wrestlers shake hands after wrestling a match...makes no sense

 

[El-Jefe]

Shine UV lights on the mat.

Surely Ohio State would be willing to share their technology.

 

[aalion]

And just to make sure this thread is grounded in fact, all of the above needs to be caveated with the fact that COVId is NOT spread through sweat. It is spread through the type of heavy breathing and potential spit that might occur during competition, but it is not spread through sweat. Let’s not imply that it is.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

And just to make sure this thread is grounded in fact, all of the above needs to be caveated with the fact that COVId is NOT spread through sweat. It is spread through the type of heavy breathing and potential spit that might occur during competition, but it is not spread through sweat. Let’s not imply that it is.

Sweat can be deadly. You can sweat bullets, or you can win with sweat, using it as a mat lubricant to your'e advantage. Just ask J'den Cox.

 

[CowboyUp61]

And just to make sure this thread is grounded in fact, all of the above needs to be caveated with the fact that COVId is NOT spread through sweat. It is spread through the type of heavy breathing and potential spit that might occur during competition, but it is not spread through sweat. Let’s not imply that it is.

but no one has breathed on that sweat, right?

 

[aalion]

but no one has breathed on that sweat, right?

Pretty sure I covered that... not sure what your point is.

fact is it hasn’t been spread from athlete to opponent in football, baseball, hoops ... is it possible to spread via breathy sweat on a mat from athlete (who had tested negative in the previous 24 hours) to ref? I guess. Which is why I acknowledged the older ref concerns above. Is it in any way likely? No. But refs can make their own decisions. And in my opinion at some point the world needs to stop managing around the theoretically possible and acknowledge a 99.95% recovery rate for healthy people under 70, effectively no risk to college aged students, etc.

 

[El-Jefe]

 

[nittinsc]

In other news:

https://psacsports.org/news/2020/7/15/general-psac-suspends-ncaa-competition-for-fall-2020.aspx

 

[1032004]

Pretty sure I covered that... not sure what your point is.

fact is it hasn’t been spread from athlete to opponent in football, baseball, hoops ... is it possible to spread via breathy sweat on a mat from athlete (who had tested negative in the previous 24 hours) to ref? I guess. Which is why I acknowledged the older ref concerns above. Is it in any way likely? No. But refs can make their own decisions. And in my opinion at some point the world needs to stop managing around the theoretically possible and acknowledge a 99.95% recovery rate for healthy people under 70, effectively no risk to college aged students, etc.

How often will HS wrestlers be tested?

 

[Dogwelder]

Sweat can be deadly. You can sweat bullets, or you can win with sweat, using it as a mat lubricant to your'e advantage. Just ask J'den Cox.

I heard if @lionlover just sweats in the same room as a girl, she gets pregnant!

 

[aalion]

How often will HS wrestlers be tested?

I don't know but my kids are tested every other week at minimum. Ironically way more than seniors living in nursing homes (my Mom and my in-laws have never been tested, while my kids have been tested 10 times at least), and way more than any ref reffing the matches who we are theoretically trying to protect by telling him not to raise the hand of a wrestler. If that makes sense to you... you are a better brain than me.

 

[regularfan]

I will probably regret writing this and I respect everybody's opinion here but we need to move off of the raising of a hand thing here. I am sure if that is the only health concern outstanding that it can be resolved fairly easily. I am as much for letting people make their own health choices as possible but even I can see that there are far greater concerns in hosting a wrestling match than a referee grabbing somebody's wrist (i.e. how many seconds are two wrestlers not in contact during a match). I don't know the financial numbers but I can't believe that testing is cheap.

I want a season also but it is a fair point to raise that there is already a shortage of refs nationwide, not sure if wrestling in particular falls into that category. Everybody has to make their own decision and if we have refs that don't feel comfortable given the current situation that it is going to potentially effect the season.

 

[PAwrestle]

In PA, all high school refs have to attend a Rules Interpretation meeting before the start of each season. Those meetings review the rule changes for the year, and also address new issues. The meetings for wrestling refs are starting to take place across the Commonwealth. From the one I attended (virtually), and reports I've heard from others, it's surprising how much uncertainty there is about wrestling for this season.

On a competition level, there is still a lot of uncertainty. As with the fall sports, each school, and each league, is making independent decisions. I know of a league that has decided they are only have league duals -- no non-league duals. That same league has decided that their middle schools will not be having teams this season. Other leagues in the same area appear to be leaning toward just in-league duals, and most of them are not starting their season until after Jan. 1. As for youth wrestling, it still appears that it will be canceled this winter in this region.

For refs, the key take-aways are: be flexible, expect fewer assignments, and stay safe. in PA, high schools are required to provide a changing room which includes a shower for refs. (Those requirements don't apply to all fall sports, but the PIAA granted each school the ability to suspend those rules for sports to which they did apply in the fall.) It appears likely that many schools will be suspending that rule for the winter sports, which could be a PITA for wrestling refs, as both your clothes and your skin is all over the mat, and most refs want to get the clothes off, and take a shower, ASAP at the end of the match even when there isn't a coronavirus pandemic.

The National Federation of State High School Associations has provided some interpretations on the NFHS rules (rules that cover all high school wresting, except for prep schools) that:

1. refs can wear gloves, or long sleeve jerseys
2. refs can use electronic whistles, or a whistle cover

There is a belief (nothing in writing yet) that wrestlers will be instructed to not shake hands before a match, and that refs will not be required to raise the hand of the winning wrestler. There are also rumors that weigh ins may be totally changed, with one team weighing in in one room, and the other team weighing in in another room, or both teams weighing in in the same room, but separately. Again, these details still seem to be in flux, with leagues and schools trying to come up with protocols with which they are comfortable.

Should be a season like nothing we've ever seen -- assuming they are able to even execute that what they are leaning toward. As for me, I'm pretty sure I'm going to opt out of reffing for this season.

Hi Tom, PA high school football official here. I would like to say a lot of what you are seemingly going through now in wrestling we went through a few short months back. Our rules interpretation meeting both with the state and locally left a lot of uncertainty. No one was sure whether we were going to play or not or how long it would last.

Our chapter saw one person opt out this season. Statewide I believe turnout from officials was pretty high.

Now that the season is coming to a close, I can reflect back and say things were different everywhere. Some games we had a locker room with showers. Others we were asked to go to the game dressed and leave immediately after. Officials handled things differently as well. We were asked to wear masks from the time we entered until the start of the game and wear them again when leaving the field. What we did during game time was a personal choice. Some used masks, others electronic whistles, others no mask and normal whistles. I chose the latter. I carried sanitizer with me and used it when I felt necessary. I made it through the season unharmed. I'm not giving an opinion of what you should or should not do just providing some insight.

Everyone's opinion may differ but for me I think things overall were handled as well as they could be considering the hand that was dealt. The kids got to play and we had an enjoyable, even though odd, season.

You hit the nail on the head and it was the same message that I preached to start the season. Be willing to be flexible and adjust and be safe. Things are going to be different. Games/matches may change but if it's something you want to do this season then it can be enjoyable.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Pretty sure I covered that... not sure what your point is.

fact is it hasn’t been spread from athlete to opponent in football, baseball, hoops ... is it possible to spread via breathy sweat on a mat from athlete (who had tested negative in the previous 24 hours) to ref? I guess. Which is why I acknowledged the older ref concerns above. Is it in any way likely? No. But refs can make their own decisions. And in my opinion at some point the world needs to stop managing around the theoretically possible and acknowledge a 99.95% recovery rate for healthy people under 70, effectively no risk to college aged students, etc.

love a good discussion. Yes, it has spread from athlete to athlete in football. Yes, anywhere the virus exists, it is possible to spread. Understand, I am talking about HS, not college-that is where PIAA came in, so I was following that line. Accordingly, those athletes are not tested as frequently, if at all.

And I agree with you. I am in a very high risk group-(repaired heart, bad lung)-and I will work this season. But, not blowing off simple precautions either, while still acknowledging that others risk tolerance is lower.

What remains to be seen, in my book, is how many of those outlier cases where young, healthy people seemingly recover but are shown to have permanent damage. But I worry more about my son getting run over by a car than that.

 

[aalion]

love a good discussion. Yes, it has spread from athlete to athlete in football. Yes, anywhere the virus exists, it is possible to spread. Understand, I am talking about HS, not college-that is where PIAA came in, so I was following that line. Accordingly, those athletes are not tested as frequently, if at all.

And I agree with you. I am in a very high risk group-(repaired heart, bad lung)-and I will work this season. But, not blowing off simple precautions either, while still acknowledging that others risk tolerance is lower.

What remains to be seen, in my book, is how many of those outlier cases where young, healthy people seemingly recover but are shown to have permanent damage. But I worry more about my son getting run over by a car than that.

Where has it spread from athlete to athlete in competition? What teams and players caught it during competition? What teams/ players have been “good” going into a game, found out their opponents had Probably been positive while playing, and 5 days later had a breakout?

certsinly didn’t happen in NBA when a player played 36 minutes and tested positive postgame. It shut down the league in March but no teammates or opponents ever tested positive. Not in MLB when 19 positive Marlins played a 3 game series vs Philly without spreading. Hasn’t happened in NFL or NCAA as far as I recall, even this weekend PSU played Maryland and unless all 8 of the positive Terps caught it Saturday night and developed detectable test conditions in 48 hours (unlikely) they didn’tspread it to PSU.

 

[tbay165]

So are we going to have a wrestling season this year or not? Seems obvious it will be without fans if we do. Whatever happened with the coaches discussion on the location of the Big 10 tournament?

 

[CowboyUp61]

Where has it spread from athlete to athlete in competition? What teams and players caught it during competition? What teams/ players have been “good” going into a game, found out their opponents had Probably been positive while playing, and 5 days later had a breakout?

certsinly didn’t happen in NBA when a player played 36 minutes and tested positive postgame. It shut down the league in March but no teammates or opponents ever tested positive. Not in MLB when 19 positive Marlins played a 3 game series vs Philly without spreading. Hasn’t happened in NFL or NCAA as far as I recall, even this weekend PSU played Maryland and unless all 8 of the positive Terps caught it Saturday night and developed detectable test conditions in 48 hours (unlikely) they didn’tspread it to PSU.

when can you specifically say you caught a virus? doesn't happen that way Lots of football teams here that played a team with a kid that tested positive, then two weeks later had bunch of positive tests. My kids high school has had it happen twice. So many games forfeited due to one team being infected. circumstantial not direct evidence, but when it happens that often... We have 11 active cases here-10 on the football team. No one in families have tested positive, but are quarantined. It came from somewhere, and I have no way of saying it didn't come from the other team


My son has a tournament this weekend. Beginning Monday, the school goes to red status due to the football positives. No school, no activities, no one allowed on school grounds. I was hopeful for the season to get going-now I am hoping this doesn't last long, but I am afraid his junior year will be one tournament.

 

[aalion]

Agree you can’t be sure where it comes from ... but there seems to be a lot of spread within teams and very little of spread between teams.

and maybe it shouldn’t be a concern at all for kids. They aren’t at risk. The rules are canceling games ... not the risks.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Agree you can’t be sure where it comes from ... but there seems to be a lot of spread within teams and very little of spread between teams.

and maybe it shouldn’t be a concern at all for kids. They aren’t at risk. The rules are canceling games ... not the risks.

very much agree. The problem is if the kids take it home. and to think the kids wont be together is foolish. I just outfitted a 30 x 40 shed with mats. Wont say no to anyone who wants to come, unless they are known to be infected, Waiver written, club set up

 

[a_mshaffer]

very much agree. The problem is if the kids take it home. and to think the kids wont be together is foolish. I just outfitted a 30 x 40 shed with mats. Wont say no to anyone who wants to come, unless they are known to be infected, Waiver written, club set up

crazy stuff ... so a lot of folks are isolated due to the proximity / contact listing. My son had two roommate's diagnosed with COVID and it appears via antibody tests he didn't get it. THat is unbelievable based on the living conditions and activities (college) they participated in... I know we can question the tests... lots of false negatives, etc... just sucks as it seems you simply don't know and the data sucks.... like it or not. On the political front... what else do we need protecting from (ok.... I didn't say that.. )

 

[CowboyUp61]

crazy stuff ... so a lot of folks are isolated due to the proximity / contact listing. My son had two roommate's diagnosed with COVID and it appears via antibody tests he didn't get it. THat is unbelievable based on the living conditions and activities (college) they participated in... I know we can question the tests... lots of false negatives, etc... just sucks as it seems you simply don't know and the data sucks.... like it or not. On the political front... what else do we need protecting from (ok.... I didn't say that.. )

no politics. . I have tested positive for antibodies the last three times I gave blood. But, I test weekly at work, using the nose swabs, and have never had a positive test. So one or the other is giving bad results, or at least misleading. Fear is what is driving all this. I know it is real, but for me, I try to continue normal life. It is a shame we aren't letting our young people do the same.

 

[a_mshaffer]

no politics. . I have tested positive for antibodies the last three times I gave blood. But, I test weekly at work, using the nose swabs, and have never had a positive test. So one or the other is giving bad results, or at least misleading. Fear is what is driving all this. I know it is real, but for me, I try to continue normal life. It is a shame we aren't letting our young people do the same.

agreed. Stuff is maddening. Know a few folks who got it and have had minor symptoms with the worse being 'just trying to shake it'. Interesting to watch it rip through the college campus. Latest from JMU was 0 positive tests.. Appears it has gone through the community already. But... there are the percentages of some folks getting stuck with it permanently. Oh to be young again!

 

[86PSUPaul]

Nice civilized conversation Cowboy and a_m, I wish this was the standard in our country.

 

[aalion]

crazy stuff ... so a lot of folks are isolated due to the proximity / contact listing. My son had two roommate's diagnosed with COVID and it appears via antibody tests he didn't get it. THat is unbelievable based on the living conditions and activities (college) they participated in... I know we can question the tests... lots of false negatives, etc... just sucks as it seems you simply don't know and the data sucks.... like it or not. On the political front... what else do we need protecting from (ok.... I didn't say that.. )

I am not certain it is as “crazy” as you think. What people believe about how it spreads and to whom has created a ton of misunderstandings and paranoia. It doesn’t spread easily on surfaces. It doesn’t always spread to everyone in families even those who live together. In fact no one I know who has tested positive has infected their entire family. It also doesn’t spread easily asymptotically (which is why children rarely spread it to adults despite the constant fear of kids “bringing it home to grama” - kids rarely have symptoms), nor when the positive test has picked up dead virus of someone who has had it for a few weeks and never knew.

I am curious too about the “spread” on campuses. Look at PSU - relatively flat for the last 6 weeks (bouncing between 150-200 cases per week) while the rest of the commonwealth has tripled positive cases. Why would that be? Are PSU students suddenly masking better or partying less? There have been no significant changes to PSU policy that could account for it. Or is there some basis that says “the virus is going to get whom it is going to get” and itripped through the students their first month on campus and then waned.... seems like it to me.

 

[1032004]

no politics. . I have tested positive for antibodies the last three times I gave blood. But, I test weekly at work, using the nose swabs, and have never had a positive test. So one or the other is giving bad results, or at least misleading. Fear is what is driving all this. I know it is real, but for me, I try to continue normal life. It is a shame we aren't letting our young people do the same.

When did you start getting tested at work? Is it possible you had it before then?

 

[Callthestall]

I have not been checking in that much to forum recently and just looked over this thread quickly. My wife works indirectly in a State agency. They were notified that probably in next few weeks more state restrictions are going to take place. Also teacher's Union is getting active on demanding schools to go virtual.
I believe that come January 1, a lot of changes are going to be in place.
The hope of the vaccine to combat the problem is probably going to take up to year to implement to general public.
New Jersey is scheduled to get 100,000 intial doses which will, vaccinate 50,000
people. The state plans to offer to medical workers first. They have 500,000 medical workers in the state and a total of almost 9 million residents. It's going to take a year to get the majority of population vaccinated. Until then the restrictions are going to be put in place and now the Fed Government starting January is going to get involved.

 

[CowboyUp61]

When did you start getting tested at work? Is it possible you had it before then?

I have been tested for Covid almost weekly (there were a few times early they did not have enough tests) since we closed the doors to students last march. They started testing antibodies in blood donations I believe in June, but due to some other stuff I missed July and August donation times.

But like the actual Covid tests, the antibody tests are equivocal. Apparently any Corona virus, of which there are many, can possibly trigger a positive result.

As far as having it before, something went through our wrestling room late last January. Kids sick for 2 weeks at a time. No one tested positive for flu, strep, any of the normal stuff. Who knows if that is related.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Nice civilized conversation Cowboy and a_m, I wish this was the standard in our country.

Amen, sir. World would be a better place!

 

[El-Jefe]

 

[johnstownsteel]

I am not certain it is as “crazy” as you think. What people believe about how it spreads and to whom has created a ton of misunderstandings and paranoia. It doesn’t spread easily on surfaces. It doesn’t always spread to everyone in families even those who live together. In fact no one I know who has tested positive has infected their entire family. It also doesn’t spread easily asymptotically (which is why children rarely spread it to adults despite the constant fear of kids “bringing it home to grama” - kids rarely have symptoms), nor when the positive test has picked up dead virus of someone who has had it for a few weeks and never knew.

I am curious too about the “spread” on campuses. Look at PSU - relatively flat for the last 6 weeks (bouncing between 150-200 cases per week) while the rest of the commonwealth has tripled positive cases. Why would that be? Are PSU students suddenly masking better or partying less? There have been no significant changes to PSU policy that could account for it. Or is there some basis that says “the virus is going to get whom it is going to get” and itripped through the students their first month on campus and then waned.... seems like it to me.

My girlfriends daughter tested positive Tuesday. Her other two children has just tested negative and my girlfriend just got her results back today which were negative. I camped out at my house (we live in separate houses) since Tuesday waiting for her to get tested. Didnt want to chance it in case she spread it to me.

 

[dicemen99]

View embedded media

PIAA aiming for a shot between the eyes for a few folks there. I would say that more than a few elite athletes are going to opt-out this season.

Each to their own, and maybe it's just me getting older, but I have no issue with the PIAA on this (screenshot this - probably won't happen again). We're in the middle of a pandemic and is it really that much of a hardship if the 2020-21 season ends up being 15-20 duals and some small tournaments??? Just a generation ago, that was the norm. Take it slow and try to make it to the postseason.

Same with college - and trust me, I'm more invested in that than many on here. This is a blip - it's not permanent.

 

[regularfan]

Speaking of officials, I was looking at the NCAA site to see if there were any championship updates. They did have the approved refs up and Tom Brands from Iowa City, Iowa is an NCAA certified official. Not sure if those are Division I or all three divisions. I don't know when he would have the time to do a DII or DIII match match but was curious why we would go through the process of certifying. I have no idea if he was listed in previous years or not:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/common/MWR_RegisteredWrestlingOfficial.pdf

 

[tbay165]

Mens basketball had a release today that stated that under current Big Ten guidance public tickets will not be sold for 2020/2021 mens basketball home games.

 

[Media Fan]

It’s November 17th, and unless I am mistaken ( which is always a possibility), the silence is deafening. What gives?

 

[nitlion6]

Mens basketball had a release today that stated that under current Big Ten guidance public tickets will not be sold for 2020/2021 mens basketball home games.

But!? Will they put them on sell for men's basketball visiting games? 😉

 

[PSUbluTX]

It’s November 17th, and unless I am mistaken ( which is always a possibility), the silence is deafening. What gives?

Nah, everything is on track. They're just waiting for the face-masked bobbleheads to get out of production before flipping on the light switch at Rec Hall.

 

[matter7172]

It's highly likely, based on current number of new daily cases and the growth rate of same from week to week, that we will be seeing 1,000,000 new cases a day within a month (you can do the math - but I could explain it if necessary. It's all there in the data and trends). That number will drastically change attitudes. If we have a death rate of 1%, that would be 10,000 people dying a day. Are people going to be good with 3 9/11's a day? I can't see a wrestling season happening with the current explosion.