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Young Guns half way grade

GogglesPaizano

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Feb 6, 2018
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To start, it's unfair and inappropriate to use Bo and Nolf as benchmarks. At this level any young wrestler who can compete for an AA is a success, and whets the appetite for the future.

Beau - He is noticeably stronger and a bit more aggressive. Some takedowns and his reattacks look almost as quick as RBYs. The only thing between him and a high AA is his level of confidence, a far too conservative gameplan, and a noticeable lack of aggression versus top competition. He is far and away the veteran of the group, so we can assume his development from here forward on a slight lower trajectory than the rest, which affects his grade slightly. I am pleased with where he is at. B+

SVN
- Admittedly, pre-season 'my' expectations for him given his petigre and small sample size last year, was the highest of the 4. It seems his results so far are the lowest of the 4. An unfair comparison, but his development ramp is far less impressive than Levi. It looks like he will need another year to reveal how far Cael can take him in this program. Career AA is a slam dunk, which is outstanding, but National champion caliber is too early to tell. The gap vs top tier competition is more apparent than the other 4. I think he will get there next year, but this year an AA is not guaranteed. B

Levi
- Many of you had lofty expectations for Levi coming into the year. With Levi being the youngest of the 4 as a true freshman, my thoughts were much more measured, and expectations lower. In time the RS just had to come off given his rapid development. He is a legit National champion contender already, and continues to display progress nearly every time out. The sky is the limit with this kid. A+

Facundo
- Alex can roll with anyone. His elite defense will keep him in nearly any match. He is cat quick for his size and has an obvious feel for the craft that you can't teach. His neutral game displays strong skills when he chooses to pull the trigger, but overall inconsistent. His game planning is too conservative to beat the best at this weight class with any consistency. He needs more work from top and bottom. Overall I think he is on plan, and could be a really dominant hammer out of the gate next year. A

I'll take 4 grades like that anytime. These kids will certainly soften the blow of losing 2 national champs next year, and with the new blood coming in we should be in a strong position. With a little injury luck, or portal help at the lower weights we are the team to beat going forward with some margin, even with the lineup tOSU has built. Overall grade for the young guns as a collective at the half way point. A pretty solid A

Thoughts, agreement, disagreement?
 
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Nice fair recap. Well done. Thank you.

Your analysis indicates that we’ll need to fill 3 holes next year. 125, 133 and 197. The development of the young guns will keep us competitive for another 5 year cycle. But, it begs 2 questions.

1. Who is going to jump in and fill these 3 holes? We have seen lots of opinions recorded on this forum. Hopefully, a healthy Howard back to 125? If not, who else? 133 has some veterans and some new talent coming in. Brooks to 197? Then who at 184? But as our future begins to appear clearer (thanks again Goggles for the analysis), this topic makes for great speculation. I know Cael has his Plan and it will be evident in time.. But, fan speculation is the fun part. That’s why forums exist.

2. Do any of our current recruits offer any immediate help with these 3 weight classes? I don’t follow High School wrestling like I used to. So, this question I ask in earnest. Any immediate help on the way?
 
Nice fair recap. Well done. Thank you.

Your analysis indicates that we’ll need to fill 3 holes next year. 125, 133 and 197. The development of the young guns will keep us competitive for another 5 year cycle. But, it begs 2 questions.

1. Who is going to jump in and fill these 3 holes? We have seen lots of opinions recorded on this forum. Hopefully, a healthy Howard back to 125? If not, who else? 133 has some veterans and some new talent coming in. Brooks to 197? Then who at 184? But as our future begins to appear clearer (thanks again Goggles for the analysis), this topic makes for great speculation. I know Cael has his Plan and it will be evident in time.. But, fan speculation is the fun part. That’s why forums exist.

2. Do any of our current recruits offer any immediate help with these 3 weight classes? I don’t follow High School wrestling like I used to. So, this question I ask in earnest. Any immediate help on the way?
Set to enjoy this year first, but while putting and hitting balls at a friend's indoor indoor playground and rewatching the OSU match next year did come up.
125 Howard hopefully, healthy and finally.
133 Davis. May take some freshman learning lumps, but with that one on one teaching thing they do by the end of the year he should be able to roll.
141 Beau
149 is tied to 157. I think by June Levi is 175 pounds of muscle walking around. So SVN will wrestle where he wants, if it is 149 I think the bigger Gibson kid may surprise us. If SVN grows into a 157 pounder Kasak I think will be our 149 pounder, and I am hoping we see a Levi replay.
165 Facundo
174 Starocci
184 Another true freshman in Barr
197 Brooks
Hwt Kerkvliet

Not a slam dunk, but quite possibly a very fun team to watch grow into something special.
 
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My opinions so take these with a grain of salt.

We have several options, but don't expect any title contender out of the gate from next year's pipeline.

My Crystal ball says unfortunately Howard won't make it through another full season. Shoulders are the absolute worst injury for wrestling. It makes me sick to think what could have been, but his injury history is now a trend, not an outlier.

I think a bigger Steen will once again man 125 and if Cael thinks we need him Davis goes to 133 and is a qualifier. Anything above that is pure speculation, and the next year Gibson comes in. Steen needs 5 more lbs of muscle and I am sure he is going to be on the weight gain and lifting, diet this off season. I think he can have a career similar to Heinselman at tOSU who struggled quite a bit the first few years getting horsed around as a talented but undersized guy. In principle I am not a fan of anyone but the bluest of blue chippers at the low weights going as a true freshman. Maybe well get Lilledahl down the road. Net-net without a portal supprise, the loss of Roman will hurt pretty badly, and we probably won't get notable points from those two weights. Bettancourt should be in the fold by then as well I doubt he can get back down to 125, and I see nothing that says he is better than Steen or Davis. Maybe he goes to protect Davis' redshirt.

I am far less worried about 197. No confirmation that Brooks bumps up but I see that as a 50/50 proposition at this time. I hope he goes, as it clears things up below a bit. If not, we probably go with Barr as a true freshman stud, on par with where we saw Levi, SVN and Facundo this preseason. It's anyones guess how successful he will be up at 197 as a true freshman, but the kid is a stud and I am sure the thought of AA isn't completely outrageous. Ball is another logical choice who has shown flashes and would be a national qualifier for sure if he can add 5-10 lbs of muscle. Any upside over that, we would have to see.

The other weight of intrigue is 157. If we take the rumors of Levi growing out of that weight, I think he shirts behind Facundo for 1 year before he moves up. That leaves yet an improved again Barraclough as the likely go to, with the rider Gibson a possibility of we had any idea where his weight is at these days.

I don't see next year's team having the same points potential as this year, however we will remain favorites, with several other teams nipping at our heels.

PS - the 4 young guns, 1 year better, look out!
 
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A few noted that Facundo reminded them of Quentin Wright. I now agree. He needs to watch how Quentin used his body type to adjust his style. So close. I think the young lad will surprise at Big's and especially at nationals. I hope the scalpers are up for some bartering.
 
To start, it's unfair and inappropriate to use Bo and Nolf as benchmarks. At this level any young wrestler who can compete for an AA is a success, and whets the appetite for the future.

Beau - He is noticeably stronger and a bit more aggressive. Some takedowns and his reattacks look almost as quick as RBYs. The only thing between him and a high AA is his level of confidence, a far too conservative gameplan, and a noticeable lack of aggression versus top competition. He is far and away the veteran of the group, so we can assume his development from here forward on a slight lower trajectory than the rest, which affects his grade slightly. I am pleased with where he is at. B+

SVN
- Admittedly, pre-season 'my' expectations for him given his petigre and small sample size last year, was the highest of the 4. It seems his results so far are the lowest of the 4. An unfair comparison, but his development ramp is far less impressive than Levi. It looks like he will need another year to reveal how far Cael can take him in this program. Career AA is a slam dunk, which is outstanding, but National champion caliber is too early to tell. The gap vs top tier competition is more apparent than the other 4. I think he will get there next year, but this year an AA is not guaranteed. B

Levi
- Many of you had lofty expectations for Levi coming into the year. With Levi being the youngest of the 4 as a true freshman, my thoughts were much more measured, and expectations lower. In time the RS just had to come off given his rapid development. He is a legit National champion contender already, and continues to display progress nearly every time out. The sky is the limit with this kid. A+

Facundo
- Alex can roll with anyone. His elite defense will keep him in nearly any match. He is cat quick for his size and has an obvious feel for the craft that you can't teach. His neutral game displays strong skills when he chooses to pull the trigger, but overall inconsistent. His game planning is too conservative to beat the best at this weight class with any consistency. He needs more work from top and bottom. Overall I think he is on plan, and could be a really dominant hammer out of the gate next year. A

I'll take 4 grades like that anytime. These kids will certainly soften the blow of losing 2 national champs next year, and with the new blood coming in we should be in a strong position. With a little injury luck, or portal help at the lower weights we are the team to beat going forward with some margin, even with the lineup tOSU has built. Overall grade for the young guns as a collective at the half way point. A pretty solid A

Thoughts, agreement, disagreement?
I think SVN will be fine. He has also had the hardest schedule to wrestle than any of the other"young guns" by far. He has been in every match often wrestling 4-6 yr kids. I like his aggressiveness and gas tank. He will be get better and I suspect will be a title contender in the coming years when Yanni and Gomez graduate. .
 
I might be a mean teacher but ...

Gary - D, I understand he's outpowered a lot and I didn't have high expectations but I saw more fight out of our Schnupp, Meredith, Shunk types.

Bartlett - B+, his big test (Woods) ... he got a C (for being a copycat of his 149 self) which brings down his average. I will say, beating D'Emilio, Mattin, McNeil deserves some applause. Those are solid Top 20 opponents. Anyone who doesn't think he's better at 141 is kidding themselves. Stylistically he is the same guy but he's winning instead of losing now. A lot of shots he defends well at 141, he would never have a chance at 149.

SVN - C+, he's cleaned up his technique a lot in terms of defense. His offense isn't there yet, if I were grading on a curve, it'd be higher. Maybe I set expectations too high but thought by February, we'd say oh Shayne will definitely AA.

Levi - A+, nothing more to say. He's great and he's getting better every match.

Facundo - B+, having his defense is serving him well. Don't know how many takedowns he's let up this year but it's not many (off the top of my head, just Carr and Amine? Maybe others). That being said, still no consistent leg attacks which will keep him in close matches every round at NCAAs.
 
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Definitely too harsh on SVN He has wrestled 4 top 10 kids, with two being number 2 and 3. And he wrestled aggressively in those matches. Bartlett wrestled one top 10 , Facundo 3 and Haines none. Just saying I think SVN as a freshman is doing well. He will only improve.
 
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A few noted that Facundo reminded them of Quentin Wright. I now agree. He needs to watch how Quentin used his body type to adjust his style. So close. I think the young lad will surprise at Big's and especially at nationals. I hope the scalpers are up for some bartering.
I will say, Facundo is the draw no top guy wants at NCAAs. A Casey Cunningham coached 165 who can defend his way out of almost any takedown.
 
Good analysis. I’m higher on SVN though. He needs to develop a go to leg attack and get better on bottom but he doesn’t have a bad loss and has been within striking distance in each loss against guys at the top of the weight class. I think come the end of the season he is going to be right there with everyone and I see him AAing.

As far as next year’s roster I think the best idea is for AB to go 197 and for Barr to slot in at 184 as a true freshman. I’m as high on Barr as almost any recruit to come in lately. Sky is the limit for him and I think he will be ready to go as a true freshman
Hoping Robbie can get healthy because he would be a huge addition. Kid deserves a season of good health after all the injuries he’s dealt with
133 is the weight with the most question marks I think. I feel like Davis needs a year in the room before he’s ready to really compete at a high level in the Big 10. Plus a year in the weight room would be beneficial as well. I really don’t see BB as an option at 133. I have no idea if Evans is either but if he can make the weight I think he could be the best option. Maybe we dip into the portal for this weight?
 
Good analysis. I’m higher on SVN though. He needs to develop a go to leg attack and get better on bottom but he doesn’t have a bad loss and has been within striking distance in each loss against guys at the top of the weight class. I think come the end of the season he is going to be right there with everyone and I see him AAing.

As far as next year’s roster I think the best idea is for AB to go 197 and for Barr to slot in at 184 as a true freshman. I’m as high on Barr as almost any recruit to come in lately. Sky is the limit for him and I think he will be ready to go as a true freshman
Hoping Robbie can get healthy because he would be a huge addition. Kid deserves a season of good health after all the injuries he’s dealt with
133 is the weight with the most question marks I think. I feel like Davis needs a year in the room before he’s ready to really compete at a high level in the Big 10. Plus a year in the weight room would be beneficial as well. I really don’t see BB as an option at 133. I have no idea if Evans is either but if he can make the weight I think he could be the best option. Maybe we dip into the portal for this weight?
Fix, Arujau, Mendez, Byrd, Latona and Colaiocco all have at least a year or more left. Might as well get one of them.
 
How is Beau a "Young Gun"? He is in his third year of wrestling and in the same class as Starocci and Kerkvliet.
 
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To start, it's unfair and inappropriate to use Bo and Nolf as benchmarks. At this level any young wrestler who can compete for an AA is a success, and whets the appetite for the future.

Beau - He is noticeably stronger and a bit more aggressive. Some takedowns and his reattacks look almost as quick as RBYs. The only thing between him and a high AA is his level of confidence, a far too conservative gameplan, and a noticeable lack of aggression versus top competition. He is far and away the veteran of the group, so we can assume his development from here forward on a slight lower trajectory than the rest, which affects his grade slightly. I am pleased with where he is at. B+

SVN
- Admittedly, pre-season 'my' expectations for him given his petigre and small sample size last year, was the highest of the 4. It seems his results so far are the lowest of the 4. An unfair comparison, but his development ramp is far less impressive than Levi. It looks like he will need another year to reveal how far Cael can take him in this program. Career AA is a slam dunk, which is outstanding, but National champion caliber is too early to tell. The gap vs top tier competition is more apparent than the other 4. I think he will get there next year, but this year an AA is not guaranteed. B

Levi
- Many of you had lofty expectations for Levi coming into the year. With Levi being the youngest of the 4 as a true freshman, my thoughts were much more measured, and expectations lower. In time the RS just had to come off given his rapid development. He is a legit National champion contender already, and continues to display progress nearly every time out. The sky is the limit with this kid. A+

Facundo
- Alex can roll with anyone. His elite defense will keep him in nearly any match. He is cat quick for his size and has an obvious feel for the craft that you can't teach. His neutral game displays strong skills when he chooses to pull the trigger, but overall inconsistent. His game planning is too conservative to beat the best at this weight class with any consistency. He needs more work from top and bottom. Overall I think he is on plan, and could be a really dominant hammer out of the gate next year. A

I'll take 4 grades like that anytime. These kids will certainly soften the blow of losing 2 national champs next year, and with the new blood coming in we should be in a strong position. With a little injury luck, or portal help at the lower weights we are the team to beat going forward with some margin, even with the lineup tOSU has built. Overall grade for the young guns as a collective at the half way point. A pretty solid A

Thoughts, agreement, disagreement?
these guys will all get much better as their careers move forward and great futures for all!
 
Overall A- , Any coach would kill for these 4 guys to be there 6-9 best starters.

Beau A- , He’s solidly in tier 2 of 141. Just behind the top few guys. No bad losses.

SVN B , He’s wrestled by far the toughest schedule. Not getting dominated, but not quite there yet.

Levi A+ , One bad loss early, but is literally improving every match. Only question seems to be, how many titles?

Facundo A- , Wrestling well. 165 is a meat grinder. Would love to see him up a weight or 2 in the future. If he fills out, look out.
 
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Fix, Arujau, Mendez, Byrd, Latona and Colaiocco all have at least a year or more left. Might as well get one of them.
Let's start the Fix to PSU rumors now just to watch HR and Bucknuts' heads explode. Less than a zero chance on that one, he is a cowboy for life.

I frankly don't see any hope for the portal at 125 or 133, but if you want a long shot I'll stick with my earlier quib, Noto from Lock Haven. He's young, he's local, and his talents are wasted there. Cael might just able to do something with that kid.
 
Let's start the Fix to PSU rumors now just to watch Hr and Bucknuts heads explode. Less than a zero chance on that one.

I frankly don't see any hope for the portal at 125 or 133, but if you want a long shot I'll stick with my earlier quib, Noto from Lehigh. He's young, he's local, and his talents are wasted there. Cael might just able to do something with that kid.
Noto from Lock Haven?
 
I’ll say it again. Don’t sleep on Connor Pierce. The kid eats, sleeps, and lives for wrestling. He loves it. He could be in the mix in a loaded lineup. His trajectory is what we like to see.
What weight is he at now? Do you see him moving up?
 
I’d like to see him at 149. SVN at 157. Maybe. Don’t know if SVN can grow into that weight. It’s above my pay grade. But I love Pierce with 4 years of eligibility left.
How about Beau down to 33 and Connor at 41?
 
Set to enjoy this year first, but while putting and hitting balls at a friend's indoor indoor playground and rewatching the OSU match next year did come up.
125 Howard hopefully, healthy and finally.
133 Davis. May take some freshman learning lumps, but with that one on one teaching thing they do by the end of the year he should be able to roll.
141 Beau
149 is tied to 157. I think by June Levi is 175 pounds of muscle walking around. So SVN will wrestle where he wants, if it is 149 I think the bigger Gibson kid may surprise us. If SVN grows into a 157 pounder Kasak I think will be our 149 pounder, and I am hoping we see a Levi replay.
165 Facundo
174 Starocci
184 Another true freshman in Barr
197 Brooks
Hwt Kerkvliet

Not a slam dunk, but quite possibly a very fun team to watch grow into something special.
I like Beau going down to 133. To me, he still looks like the smaller 141 in almost every match. I’m not saying he will and I don’t love weight cuts for everyone but by all accounts he has zero problems with 141 and struggled to stay up north of that for 149 last year.

If Beau drops to 133 then Evans can slide in at 141. Evans looks massively improved to me in the matches I’ve seen him. In particular with Beau this year into overtime at the Army open. Of Howard can stay at 125 , Beau to 133 and Evans to 141, that minimizes the gap significantly. Beau will be a true contender at 133. Howard should be AA contender and Evans could get to AA contender with mat time. Obviously there are variables here but this is what makes the most sense to me next year.
 
Definitely too harsh on SVN He has wrestled 4 top 10 kids, with two being number 2 and 3. And he wrestled aggressively in this matches. Bartlett wrestled one top 10 , Facundo 3 and Haines none. Just saying I think SVN as a freshman is doing well. He will only improve.
Agree. Had Shayne managed to secure that 2nd TD against Sossa instead of giving it up, I think we all would have been pretty freakin stoked. From where I’m sitting, SVN has attempted far more legit offensive shots than either Beau or Facundo to this point, and he’s done this while facing better competition. He obviously still needs to learn how to get out from bottom against the top hammers but otherwise he’s in there going Mano a Mano with some of the best guys in the weight class.
 
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I don’t think Connor is a 141.
The gopsusports roster has him listed at 141, but we know how accurate that is. It still does not have Betancourt listed despite Trackwrestling having him listed and weight certified, supposedly at least. Will's Twitter page says he is a PSU wrestler.

My son is a huge Evans fan since he is from our area.
 
The gopsusports roster has him listed at 141, but we know how accurate that is. It still does not have Betancourt listed despite Trackwrestling having him listed and weight certified, supposedly at least. Will's Twitter page says he is a PSU wrestler.

My son is a huge Evans fan since he is from our area.
Could @smalls103 arrange a dual between Connor and Evans? I will provide fried chicken. I know guys that will bring coffee, guanciale, and wine.
 
Hmm Bartlett still has a redshirt I believe. Maybe he takes a year off next year and Connor man's 141?

I really don't think Bartlett could get down to 133 or how effective he would be there, but he would probably be the strongest option.

As for SVN, I don't see him as a large 149 today. Without some serious quality weight gain he would get horsed around at 157.

I don't remember a time where there were more interchangeable moving pieces on this team, than when we look at next year. A good 50% of the thread banter will be focused on the possibilities come the end of March. It should be fun.
 
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No one talking about it, but PSU has incoming transfer for a possible 133 in Ryan Sullivan. Interesting story, kid was super legit in HS (we recruited him hard), and was a 1 or 2x AAA champ (I can't recall off top of my head), and I wanna say Runner-Up. Had some success at WVU then had some personal issues leaving the team. May surprise some people next season.
 
No one talking about it, but PSU has incoming transfer for a possible 133 in Ryan Sullivan. Interesting story, kid was super legit in HS (we recruited him hard), and was a 1 or 2x AAA champ (I can't recall off top of my head), and I wanna say Runner-Up. Had some success at WVU then had some personal issues leaving the team. May surprise some people next season.
Biggest problem we have had with transfers in from other programs is getting the other programs' crud scrubbed off.
 
Let's start the Fix to PSU rumors now just to watch HR and Bucknuts' heads explode. Less than a zero chance on that one, he is a cowboy for life.

I frankly don't see any hope for the portal at 125 or 133, but if you want a long shot I'll stick with my earlier quib, Noto from Lock Haven. He's young, he's local, and his talents are wasted there. Cael might just able to do something with that kid.
Cael can tell Fix he can go at his natural weight, 157.
 
I like Beau going down to 133. To me, he still looks like the smaller 141 in almost every match. I’m not saying he will and I don’t love weight cuts for everyone but by all accounts he has zero problems with 141 and struggled to stay up north of that for 149 last year.

If Beau drops to 133 then Evans can slide in at 141. Evans looks massively improved to me in the matches I’ve seen him. In particular with Beau this year into overtime at the Army open. Of Howard can stay at 125 , Beau to 133 and Evans to 141, that minimizes the gap significantly. Beau will be a true contender at 133. Howard should be AA contender and Evans could get to AA contender with mat time. Obviously there are variables here but this is what makes the most sense to me next year.
The first exhibition match after the Indiana Dual had Evans wrestling.......at 157. That may alter some future plans/predictions
 
A few noted that Facundo reminded them of Quentin Wright. I now agree. He needs to watch how Quentin used his body type to adjust his style. So close. I think the young lad will surprise at Big's and especially at nationals. I hope the scalpers are up for some bartering.
He does have a similar body type, but I'd like to see him develop his style around his elbow pull/duck series. He has the rare okie state hip flexibility to disappear on those. He could craft a very effective style of using his length to create space on the edge and his flexibility to use to the edge as a safety blanket, and then duck and elbow pull when guys chase him.

It's not the typical style of attack we see from Cael and co. PSU guys have mostly used penetration attacks. If I'm Cael, I'm doing a study on college Coleman Scott and putting Facundo to work this summer. He has the tools to be a really good folkstyler.

Check this one out for what I mean (minus the gas tank issues)

 
Beau 133 van ness 141??maybe
And Levi to 149?

Far too much time being spent around the campfire with John Smith, IMO.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I have seen very few kids with great success 1 weight below their ideal. Off the top of my head I can't even think of an any.
 
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