2021 National Duals Results & Discussion

[El-Jefe]

Watched Carter a good deal in high school. When he gets pissed, it is a completely different Carter. Sometimes it borders on giving up a point for unnecessary roughness. He gets super physical, picks up his pace, and is relentless everywhere. The problem with coming out like that is gas tank. Usually when guys go out all pisssed off, at some point you get the adrenaline dump, and your wind is gone. However, if Cael or Casey could punch Carter about half way through every match, he would be my number one pick to win nationals.


You are correct. However, there's two things that go against Facundo wrestling this year. 1. Edsell is not wrestling terrible. He's been in every match he's wrestled, and if you can keep matches close, you have a shot. I know that goes against the PSU way of scoring points, but it is what it is. 2. 165 is incredibly deep this year. I myself would not want to burn Facundo's redshirt for the chance he'll score more points. I don't believe he's wrestled at all this year so that may be the coaches thoughts as well. Rumors are he'll be at the scuffle. If he goes out there and wins it, then they'll have a serious conversation. But Casey said as of now, the plan is to redshirt him

Remember, Cael isn't just thinking of what's best for individuals and the team this year. He needs to be, and is, thinking years down the road.

I think Cael mentioned at one time that the only way they'll wrestle someone as a true freshman is out of necessity, or they have a chance to win nationals. I don't think either of those are the case for Facundo.

Regarding 165:

Edsell is likely capped at 2-2 with no bonus at nationals --> 2.0 pts max.

Geno Morelli was better than that -- returning NQ, 10-1 with 4 pins -- when Mark Hall's shirt got pulled.

I doubt Facundo is as good now as Hall was then. But I don't think he needs to win the Scuffle either. That's an insane field -- Griffith, O'Toole, Wittlake, Ramirez, and about various dozen other ranked wrestlers. 3rd with some bonus might be enough.

But it's gotta be something like that. Agreed that you don't pull his shirt for 1 or 2 pts. He's gotta be a legit podium threat with some bonus potential.

 

[El-Jefe]

BTW, Facundo is 6-1 this year with 3 majors and 2 pins (all at the Clarion Open.)

The loss was to Maryland's starter in TB-1 because he didn't know the new rideout rule and had no coaches in his corner.

He looked like a PSU wrestler in the wins -- he turned up the pace once he saw bonus points in reach, and he kept scoring after reaching a major. A lot to like there, just need to see it vs better opponents.

 

[El-Jefe]

Just realized Andonian ducked YD.
Need to punish these guys in seeding.

Andonian didn't wrestle yesterday either.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Man. Bartlett is tough to watch right now

I vote this stupidest post of the year.

 

[Lovethissport]

I just got home and didn't see the Lewis match. I would guess though that it has more to do with him getting off bottom rather than him making mistakes. Maybe he thought he was good enough to get riding time and

Neither ever even attempted a shot. The decision by FOCA to chose top in overtime was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Lewis escaped in the second period in like 5 seconds. It took him less than that in OT. It was inexplicably. It was Foca’s choice. Just defer and Lewis choses down you get top anyway and then still have choice in third. I really don’t know what the thinking was.

 

[donboy6499]

Andonian didn't wrestle yesterday either.

If it sends message that sitting out of a scheduled dual will be treated as a loss, I’m cool with giving him losses here too.
The alternative is we sit here and just learn to live with what Schultz did tonight.

 

[NoVa Lion]

I don't think it's necessary for Facundo to make the podium in order to score more than Edsell at NCAAs. Every single point will count.

But if Facundo reaches say the R16 this season and scores say 2 points at NCAAs then he loses a year of eligibility that he could use his senior or redshirt senior season where he possibly is a National Champion scoring 24+ points. And as of right now 2 extra points won't put us over the top against Iowa at NCAAs. Now if Facundo wins the Scuffle against a strong or decent field that changes things.

 

[Junglekitty]

BTW, Facundo is 6-1 this year with 3 majors and 2 pins (all at the Clarion Open.)

The loss was to Maryland's starter in TB-1 because he didn't know the new rideout rule and had no coaches in his corner.

He looked like a PSU wrestler in the wins -- he turned up the pace once he saw bonus points in reach, and he kept scoring after reaching a major. A lot to like there, just need to see it vs better opponents.

My apologies, completely forgot about him at the Clarion Open.

Touché on the Morelli and Hall situation. However, as I previously stated, I think the only way a true freshman goes is out of necessity or a title threat. Hall proved he was indeed a threat. I don’t think Facundo is a threat at this point.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Schultz just disqualified himself from 2 or 3 seed in March.

Yeah, I was all ready to diss those on this board who accuse other teams of ducking if we held Kerk out. Then Kerk comes out and Schultz does not and Kerk finishes and wins the match in spite of a nasty nose bleed.

 

[Raw Daddy]

Tonight's win shows, in part, why Bartlett has wrestled the way he has at 149. He may be able to open up a bit more, but in doing so he risks getting himself out of position and needing to chase matches more often. Unless he's facing Yianni or the elite of the elite at 149, his fundamentals and positioning and mat IQ are going to keep him in matches and the more one-exchange matches he's in this year, the more chances he'll have to win them. Have to imagine this will all serve him well down the line when he's in even bigger matches at 141.

This is not the Penn State way. He was an absolute stud recruit with a fantastic pedigree. I can guarantee you, Cael & Co. does not want him squeaking out matches. They would much rather see him lose tonight and take 2-3 more shots against a great opponent. Not taking a thing away from him, but this is not the attitude and never will be while these guys are running the show for what you are projecting. If you listen to Nolf about the kids in the room right now, he talks about a change in mentality needed. That mentality is coming with confidence boosting wins like tonight, but the attitude of past groups was I know I can compete with Yianni, I’m grateful for the opportunity to show what I can do against him and I will go back in the room and work on things. Beau did a great interview, but that’s not what he projected tonight. Again this kid will be wonderful and great things to come, but it’s amazing the difference of Zain/Nolf mentality as young wrestlers to Beau.

 

[NoVa Lion]

This is not the Penn State way. He was an absolute stud recruit with a fantastic pedigree. I can guarantee you, Cael & Co. wants him squeaking out matches. They would have rather seen him lose tonight and take 2-3 more shots against a great opponent. Not taking a thing away from him, but this is not the attitude and never will be while these guys are running the show.

Maybe, but he weighed in at 143 so he is at a huge disadvantage weight/strength wise.

 

[AndEEss]

This is not the Penn State way. He was an absolute stud recruit with a fantastic pedigree. I can guarantee you, Cael & Co. wants him squeaking out matches. They would have rather seen him lose tonight and take 2-3 more shots against a great opponent. Not taking a thing away from him, but this is not the attitude and never will be while these guys are running the show.

I remember a certain C. Starocci winning like this last year.

Actually, Starocci was even uglier. He had a lot of 0 takedown wins. At least BB is inside tripping dudes in OT.

 

[AndEEss]

If BB weighed in at 143, he could make 133.

 

[NoVa Lion]

If BB weighed in at 143, he could make 133.

Probably true but a moot point as he would not beat out RBY.

 

[Raw Daddy]

I remember a certain C. Starocci winning like this last year.

Actually, Starocci was even uglier. He had a lot of 0 takedown wins. At least BB is inside tripping dudes in OT.

I agree. I edited my post to clarify some points. These kids are all total studs, listen to Carter talk last year and he never had a doubt against an opponent. So now while his technical and conditioning has gotten better, he’s separated himself from the pack and absolutely dominating.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Carter won a lot of close matches last year because he rode opponents out. His top game is unreal, not because he didn’t finish shots necessarily.

Beau’s post match was different sounding.

I don’t want this to come across as the guy who has to find a negative in a wonderful display tonight, I just believe the staff would want Beau attempting more of those inside trips and trusting his finishes. Carter won last year in unbelievable fashion and guess what happened this year, he continued to climb. The same could be said about AB last year. Regardless of how close that Hidley match was, there wasn’t a guy in his league last year.

Listen to Zain on Wrestling Changed My Life podcast about his match with Stieber. Listen to VJ and Nolf on Baschmania talk about this team’s mindset. Literally listen to any words that come out of DT and Bo’s mouth. I just strongly believe there is not that much difference between Morgan Mcintosh and Zain Retherford other than a mental component and when I hear Beau focus on how good these guys are and all the trophies they won when he was growing up, that sounds different.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

 

[Junglekitty]

Maybe, but he weighed in at 143 so he is at a huge disadvantage weight/strength wise.

I believe they said he was certed at 43, weighed in at 47, which I’m assuming is pretty close if not right on his natural weight. So he’s still giving up a weight and strength.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

I believe they said he was certed at 43, weighed in at which I’m assuming is pretty close if not right on his natural weight. So he’s still giving up a weight and strength.

Think I saw he weighed in at 147.4 but he had to bulk to get there. He’s wrestling guys who walk around anywhere from 152-160 and likely higher in the offseason

 

[Raw Daddy]

I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

To answer your question, yes at the collegiate level no where near these guys but relatively a high level. I think it’s incredibly safe to assume at this level none of us would expect bad shot taking as an offensive game plan. I would expect you to expect more knowledge about the sport coming from people who post on this board.

 

[Raw Daddy]

I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

He beat Jordan Conaway and Shelton Mack while in HS at the US Open. He’s medaled at the world championships. He won multiple prep championships. He was a top 10 PfP recruit. Not sure how he has that pedigree not being dominate.
I’m not arguing the weight thing and what he did tonight was terrific. My point in a different thread is around the mental side of it. That’s all. I’m not trying to diminish anything he did on the mat tonight. I think he’s going to be awesome. I think these young guys have a terrible shake right now because these weights have 5-6 year gaps between some of them and it makes the field even deeper and harder to navigate.

 

[McScoreley]

BTW, Facundo is 6-1 this year with 3 majors and 2 pins (all at the Clarion Open.)

The loss was to Maryland's starter in TB-1 because he didn't know the new rideout rule and had no coaches in his corner.

He looked like a PSU wrestler in the wins -- he turned up the pace once he saw bonus points in reach, and he kept scoring after reaching a major. A lot to like there, just need to see it vs better opponents.

One correction, I know his match against Lawrence of Lehigh was recorded as a pin but he definitely didn't pin him. Think he was up like 4-2 or 5-2 and Lawrence got DQed for excessive clubbing.

 

[Raw Daddy]

I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

Listen, I get it you are probably like how can you have something negative to say when an undersized, young kid just beat the 5th ranked kid in the country. His interview after the match just sounds different from what I have heard from these top guys over the last 10 years.

 

[SUPERTODD]

Listen, I get it you are probably like how can you have something negative to say when an undersized, young kid just beat the 5th ranked kid in the country. His interview after the match just sounds different from what I have heard from these top guys over the last 10 years.

I would say give him the benefit of the doubt and see if this changes his mentality and how he wrestles going forward. Beau had a great prep resume but at the collegiate level had yet to beat a ranked opponent. It is fine to be confident. Success is the ultimate confidence builder. Let’s see how his next match looks. My guess is he will come out noticeably more aggressively.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Bartlett is wrestling up a weight and simply can't be as aggressive because it's too easy to get trapped underneath. Think Nico Megaludis as a true freshman, undersized early on in his career so he had to wrestle a more conservative style. Got him to the NCAA finals. As Nico matured physically, became much more aggressive. Suspect we see a similar progression throughout Beau's career at 141 but for now he's got to wrestle a bit more reserved to be successful.

 

[BigFella235]

I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

Mister, I’m gonna need you to take your big fancy college words and facts elsewhere. We only use pure speculation and grapevine rumors here

 

[82bordeaux]

His interview after the match just sounds different from what I have heard from these top guys over the last 10 years.

The spoken word does not always reveal what is in the heart.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

The spoken word does not always reveal what is in the heart.

Maybe he should have just posted a GIF.

 

[billrag]

Pretty exciting and I've said that PSU is even money or better at NCAAs since last year. I can be a homer to a small degree, but I'm not unrealistic either. I believe PSU has help coming at 118. If it doesn't happen and we "limp along" with Campbell or Shunk, I like them, they have guts and they wrestle hard.

I think Bartlett is just fine and he'll continue to improve with matches. He IS undersized and is almost sure to return to 141 next year, but I don't see it as an extreme handicap. If anything, his height/length is the issue more than his weight, but he'll be just fine and will score lots of points for us at nationals.

No idea what's going on at 157, but it will be fine and we'll get us a qualifier I think and whoever that will be will do his best to win every match for us. If not, we've won national titles before with less than 10.

I simply haven't seen Facundo enough to really know what his ceiling is THIS YEAR, but as much as I like Edsell's heart (and as much as I'd hate to wrestle him if I were a #10-15 ranked wrestler at 165 in any round at nationals), I have to think that Facundo might score more at nationals. 10 years ago I would have said, "shirt him", but not anymore. The way PSU recruits and some of the kids who end up as reserves for us really make me feel like the kids should get their 3 or 4 years in, wrestle early and move on with their lives (which is almost surely what most of them would prefer if it truly was up to them completely). It's largely because PSU has so much to offer and really is on top of the wrestling world right now, but as long as that continues, why not take advantage and put your best team on the mat, even if wrestling a true freshman only gives you a slight bump?

I think it's pretty clear that Iowa has some "issues" which make them less than a prohibitive favorite. They're still the favorite for sure at this point, but PSU has a habit of rising to the occasion and Iowa has a funny habit of occasionally tripping over their own feet on the big stage and there's no reason to ask a stupid question like "Does PSU have any chance at nationals?" in a year like this.

 

[82bordeaux]

Maybe he should have just posted a GIF.

 

[82bordeaux]

I believe PSU has help coming at 118

Kurt McHenry is transferring in?

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Kurt McHenry is transferring in?

We all should be so lucky to live as long as @billrag. My Dad often called his sons by the wrong names. Seems the same can be said of old weight classes.

 

[Raw Daddy]

Kurt McHenry is transferring in?

Jeff Prescott’s son.

 

[7brwnpsu]

The spoken word does not always reveal what is in the heart.

Kung Fu said that in season 3, episode 7.

Maybe he should have just posted a GIF.

Stand, if you would have given Bordeaux a little more time, he was going to do a gif of young Kwai Chang Caine in a flash back with the Master.

You forced him to take a bad shot with Deadpool.

 

[nerfstate]

He beat Jordan Conaway and Shelton Mack while in HS at the US Open. He’s medaled at the world championships. He won multiple prep championships. He was a top 10 PfP recruit. Not sure how he has that pedigree not being dominate.
I’m not arguing the weight thing and what he did tonight was terrific. My point in a different thread is around the mental side of it. That’s all. I’m not trying to diminish anything he did on the mat tonight. I think he’s going to be awesome. I think these young guys have a terrible shake right now because these weights have 5-6 year gaps between some of them and it makes the field even deeper and harder to navigate.

I posted this a while back--I still agree with myself, in case anyone was wondering....

To my eyes, Beau is a very strong guy. What he seems to lack at 149 that he didn’t at Jr Worlds, for instance, was the leverage to use that strength to set up his attacks. Much of his offense is “short offense,” that requires getting your opponent in a bad spot and then capitalizing. The super crisp Sasso takedown is something of an anomaly, from most of the wrestling I’ve seen Beau do. What I see him doing this year is use his strength and elite positioning to wear the bigger guys down. It reminds me a lot of the year McCutcheon went 197 for the team (before injury). Other PSU guys have done the same thing when small (Manville vs Myles comes to mind). Pull the head with collar ties, punish from front head, and plan on making your hay in the 3rd.

Can be effective. Although the margin for error is certainly very thin. I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect to see beau launching head inside singles and doubles from space very much this year. The risk to reward ratio is lacking.

All that doesn’t mean that he can’t improve in the offensive confidence department. Beau is more athletic than Cutch and Manville (that reversal last night was sweet). I think he will improve to a degree over the course of the season. how many points he’s able to score at NCAA‘s remains to be seen.

As far as his interview goes--he's a very cerebral guy. Remember what school he was originally rumored to be going to. He's clearly a tactician in a way that some of our other guys weren't. That's OK--he's still a great wrestler, and I believe our coaches recruited him for reasons beyond his accolades.... It's what we do.

 

[billrag]

Hee hee hee, I won't even edit it to cover my own dementia and idiocy so you guys can have some fun.

 

[billrag]

We all should be so lucky to live as long as @billrag. My Dad often called his sons by the wrong names. Seems the same can be said of old weight classes.

I blame my cognitive mistakes on a recent bout with Lyme disease (no kidding), but my father (who had 7 sons) always called us by the wrong names and I admit that I often call my sons each other's name and I only have 2.

 

[Cstroke]

is terry brands yelling “more forward” out to him on the mat good enough for you?

The real question is, can Terry Brands yell move forward without moving forward himself?
On a side note, anyone have a pic of Kerks nose?

 

[NothingMeaningful]

He looked “rusty”, only got a major against Latona.

Unlike others (*cough*Spencer*cough), Vito hadn't wrestled a folkstyle match in 21 months prior to the Stanford dual.

Vito and LaMont are the only ones left at 125 with a 100% bonus rate.

In fact, other than those two, only Steveson and Parris are undefeated with 100% bonus rates at any weight. You can blame Cornell for taking Starocci and Dean off that list.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

Out of curiosity, was either guy close to scoring offensively?

Not that I recall. No scrambling to speak of. Kinda odd. Fewest points by Lewis all year, but again Starocci had his lowest score against Foca, so he must be doing something right (other than losing, of course).

 

[NothingMeaningful]

Maybe you are right but Loew got teched by Venz. That result doesn’t scream that he should beat someone like Bolen

Loew isn't *that* good. Depending on the matchups, though, he can be tough with his height (a poor man's Darmstadt).