The urge of some in our fanbase to kick Cael upstairs never fails to baffle me. Shut up and let him cook
Kicking Cael upstairs is essentially a return to the good ol' days before RTCs. Which was the lowest point of USA Wrestling, but whatever. We need to do that because panic.
He is. But through the NLWC. Most of the big name recruits have some pretty hefty freestyle accolades. A high percentage of those recruits stay amd he brings in high level wrestlers from other places.
Now we need our younger grads like Brooks to hit the international scene hard to get experience.
That’s who I picked mainly because he beat Otoguro just to make the team
I've seen a ton of people on social media complaining about how terrible this team performed. This is a sport of inches. Apparently, they forgot that both Gable and DT won their matches in the waning seconds. Some of the most electric moments in recent wrestling history for me. Unfortunately, this go around, we were on the other end of those with heartbreaking defeats. At this level, these guys have a razors edge separating them. We're fine, and will bounce back with no problem!
Exactly. Geno was soooo close to a tech fall over a guy who has owned him of late, and then almost lost the match. What separates guys at the top of the pile is usually less than a hair. (Taz, DT, & Yazdani notwithstanding).
As evidenced by how wildly divergent results can be.
Example: Kiyooka being 9th at U23s last year, then in 2024: beat out defending Olympic champ Otoguro, then finished 2nd at Budapest to Aliyev (after beating Gomez, Musukaev, and Jalolov), then won Olympic gold.
Did he really get that much better in one year? Or more likely: he did improve some, and the margins are extremely tight at that level.
Likewise: Parris was World Silver last year, went 0-1/DNP at Olympics. Did he really fall off a cliff? Probably not.
Was thinking the same thing but the world wrestles FS all year long at all levels. US doesn’t as it spends half the year in Folk which is great and enjoyable but if you want to win internationally, you focus on it.
The college kids can still challenge at the trials but other kids who want international competition year round focus on FS. Their path is different and they can still be in school.
Heck the NLWC is the best place to start but get kids involved before they go through five yrs and graduate from Folkstyle. I’m not kickin Cael upstairs but he is the country’s savant when it comes to wrestling and is the GOAT. Start there.
The college kids can still challenge at the trials but other kids who want international competition year round focus on FS. Their path is different and they can still be in school.
Heck the NLWC is the best place to start but get kids involved before they go through five yrs and graduate from Folkstyle. I’m not kickin Cael upstairs but he is the country’s savant when it comes to wrestling and is the GOAT. Start there.
I like it now with Cael as head of the PSU wrestling program.
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Team USA age-group results in 2023:
- U23s: 4 gold, 2 bronze = 6 medals out of 10 weights.
- U20s: 2 gold, 2 silver, 4 bronze = 8 medals out of 10 weights.
- U17s: 3 gold, 3 bronze = 6 medals out of 10 weights.
Unlike the Olympics, these events are not capped at 16 competitors per weight.
Folk is not hindering Team USA at any point in the development curve.
This leaves us with solutions in search of a problem.
Lots of turnover happening after this cycle but personally I love where we are as a country. We continue doing better and better at the age group levels and we have absolute killers coming through U20 right now. Others like Mesenbrink just aged out. Next cycle our team will look much different but we will have a bunch of young and hungry kids ready to make their mark. I’m excited to see it
How dare other countries try to win. This is bull$h!t.
With the Games over, some coveted OGA’s (Old Guy Awards):
Most Surprising Performance: Mason Parris
Most Satisfying Performance: Sarah Hildebrandt
Most Bittersweet Backstage Retirement: Zain
Most Devastating Last Second Loss: Aaron
Best Recovery from Most Devastating Last Second Loss: Aaron
Best Mat Sequence Based on Anger: Dake for bronze
Most Ominous Display: Japan’s dominance
Best Expatriate Performance: Rivera, giving the ‘Fro (Kiyooka) his toughest test and gutting out two repechage comebacks for bronze.
Most Elite Wrestler in Need of The Grace Shown in Dake/Helen/AB Interviews: Spencer
Teammates We Hope Never Marry and Procreate: The ‘Fro (Kiyooka) and the Hellcat (Fujinami).
Never To Happen Again: Lopez Nunez’ five straight golds in five Olympics.
Always To Happen Again (okay, so not an award): Lion on Olympic team.
Most Time Spent Watching FS Matches While Working: HikeNatParks.
Now, about this season's lineup that’ll be chasing our third four-peat . . .
Enjoy the rest of summer!
Most Surprising Performance: Mason Parris
Most Satisfying Performance: Sarah Hildebrandt
Most Bittersweet Backstage Retirement: Zain
Most Devastating Last Second Loss: Aaron
Best Recovery from Most Devastating Last Second Loss: Aaron
Best Mat Sequence Based on Anger: Dake for bronze
Most Ominous Display: Japan’s dominance
Best Expatriate Performance: Rivera, giving the ‘Fro (Kiyooka) his toughest test and gutting out two repechage comebacks for bronze.
Most Elite Wrestler in Need of The Grace Shown in Dake/Helen/AB Interviews: Spencer
Teammates We Hope Never Marry and Procreate: The ‘Fro (Kiyooka) and the Hellcat (Fujinami).
Never To Happen Again: Lopez Nunez’ five straight golds in five Olympics.
Always To Happen Again (okay, so not an award): Lion on Olympic team.
Most Time Spent Watching FS Matches While Working: HikeNatParks.
Now, about this season's lineup that’ll be chasing our third four-peat . . .
Enjoy the rest of summer!
Well done!With the Games over, some coveted OGA’s (Old Guy Awards):
Most Surprising Performance: Mason Parris
Most Satisfying Performance: Sarah Hildebrandt
Most Bittersweet Backstage Retirement: Zain
Most Devastating Last Second Loss: Aaron
Best Recovery from Most Devastating Last Second Loss: Aaron
Best Mat Sequence Based on Anger: Dake for bronze
Most Ominous Display: Japan’s dominance
Best Expatriate Performance: Rivera, giving the ‘Fro (Kiyooka) his toughest test and gutting out two repechage comebacks for bronze.
Most Elite Wrestler in Need of The Grace Shown in Dake/Helen/AB Interviews: Spencer
Teammates We Hope Never Marry and Procreate: The ‘Fro (Kiyooka) and the Hellcat (Fujinami).
Never To Happen Again: Lopez Nunez’ five straight golds in five Olympics.
Always To Happen Again (okay, so not an award): Lion on Olympic team.
Most Time Spent Watching FS Matches While Working: HikeNatParks.
Now, about this season's lineup that’ll be chasing our third four-peat . . .
Enjoy the rest of summer!
If you watch the Steve Prefontaine movies from about 25 years...Prefontaine places 4th in the 5000 meters in the 72 Olympics. He had a tough time recovering from the lose. In the movie, his coach Bill Bowerman points out, at that level of competition, any given race, one of a half dozen runners can win.
Its the same with wrestlng at this level. As you said, the differences are a razor's edge. Between Aaron and Spencer, they are about 5 seconds total from 2 gold medals.
Hell, everyone was calling Gable S the goat and he was 2 seconds from the reverse result (dropping the match). Winning the Olympics is haaarrrd (to channel Shane Sparks)
And would've lost if the ref hadn't gotten caught up in the moment. The rules did not allow him to cut Geno free until the ref signaled a restart. The ref let it go.
I'm happy it worked out that way, and wish the rules would allow top to cut bottom free like in folk. But that wasn't the rule at the time.
And now on to the next big events. U17’s Aug 18-24 and then U20’s from Sept 2-8. Not sure what to expect from our U17 team but the U20 team is STACKED! I think it’s our best team ever
As a total international wrestling fan neophyte, and possibly not totally understanding the nuances of all of this, two things have become clearer and clearer to me as I've watched this recent Olympic wrestling cycle unfold.
- We need to get back to 10 Olympic wrestling weight classes - ASAP! To improve the level of interest and the respect deserved to the sport of wrestling, the return of fairness to the wrestlers, and to protect the health of these fine athletes, this has to happen. This won't just benefit the USA wrestlers, every country is operating under these restrictive conditions. But it hurts the elite wrestling powers the most.
- We need to get our wrestlers qualified earlier. It's ridiculous that after our Olympic trials, we have wrestlers that need to go and get qualified. How is this happening? If it's 6 weights, or 10, we need all of our athletes qualified prior. No disrespect to RBY, or Seabass, or to the Michigan wrestlers representing Serbia or San Marino, but how are athletes from these smaller countries with less prominent programs getting that done? And we have some of our finest wrestlers squeaking in at the last chance qualifier. It makes no sense to me.
I agree to a degree. But don't overemphasize points 1 and 2. Cael had fun and success at Iowa State. However,he came to Penn State to kick Iowa and everyone else's a$$es then work on a productive life.
Each country has multiple opportunities to qualify the weight. The country qualifies, and then can send whoever it wants to Olympics. (It's similar to B10 receiving auto-qualifer spots for NCAAs, and then holding a tournament to ID the names for those spots.)
Here are the qualification criteria:
How Wrestlers Qualify For The 2024 Olympics - FloWrestling
Explaining how wrestlers qualify for the 2024 Paris Olympics.
Our reps at 57 and 65 kg failed to qualify the weight prior to USA Olympic Trials. It's that simple. That's why Spencer and Zain had to go to Last Chance.
At our continental qualifier, Pan Ams, only the top 2 countries made the Olympics. RBY (Mexico) and Cruz (Puerto Rico) made the 57 finals. Our guy didn't. Same with Rivera at 65.
Micic qualified as 2023 World Champ. That's a significantly harder achievement than 2024 Pan Ams. Amine qualified as 2023 World Bronze.
Etc.
Couldn't agree more. The difference is huge. It should have been easy to recognize, especially in the very last bout of the Olympics. The Japanese gal worked the center of the mat, pressing forward for the entire 6 minutes. Blades almost got put on the shot clock again.
When you are gassed and your heart is beating 180 bpm, you are past purpose. You are running on instinct. Our instinct is what we learned all our lives. It isn't a random crotch lift with no control.
Credit Japan. Great defense. Held the center. Pressed forward. Countered well. Brought the action when they needed to. Simple formula well executed. Japan is a very homogenous culture. It showed. They were in great shape too.
All US women's teams at all levels are freestyle.
The only US women who train folk at all are those on boys' teams.
I know.
Regardless, the Japanese girl held center and moved forward pressing the action.
Exhibit A:
Amit Elor on Instagram: "Running with your brother to get a croissant >>"
21K likes, 238 comments - amitelor1 on August 10, 2024: "Running with your brother to get a croissant >>".
www.instagram.com
Perhaps. Or possibly he came to PSU to maximize his own potential as a coach. The winning is a by product of that.
He didn't come here to beat Iowa any more than he came here to beat Lehigh.
He came here to win and to maximize his wrestlers' potentials. Specifying opponents is irrelevant.
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Good news, everyone! "Breaking" is NOT part of the 2028 games in L.A.
Thanks for clarifying all of this. That's what I assumed about those missed opportunities of not qualifying at PanAm's. I think that's what puzzles me, and it might be due to a bias on my part. I just assumed that the guys who opted to wrestle for other countries, was because they didn't think they could make the USA team, and I therefore assumed we had higher caliber guys at those weights, and we would qualify at that event rather than them (or at least with them in the finals).Each country has multiple opportunities to qualify the weight. The country qualifies, and then can send whoever it wants to Olympics. (It's similar to B10 receiving auto-qualifer spots for NCAAs, and then holding a tournament to ID the names for those spots.)
Here are the qualification criteria:
How Wrestlers Qualify For The 2024 Olympics - FloWrestling
Explaining how wrestlers qualify for the 2024 Paris Olympics.www.flowrestling.org
Our reps at 57 and 65 kg failed to qualify the weight prior to USA Olympic Trials. It's that simple. That's why Spencer and Zain had to go to Last Chance.
At our continental qualifier, Pan Ams, only the top 2 countries made the Olympics. RBY (Mexico) and Cruz (Puerto Rico) made the 57 finals. Our guy didn't. Same with Rivera at 65.
Micic qualified as 2023 World Champ. That's a significantly harder achievement than 2024 Pan Ams. Amine qualified as 2023 World Bronze.
Etc.
I looked at the Pam Am website results for Feb 21-24, 2024 (Acapulco, Mexico) and saw that 10 weights were contested. USA swept every weight. Am I looking at the wrong event? 2023 results at 57 and 65 kg also had USA with gold. No sign of RBY or SeaBass, so I probably am.
https://uww.org/event/seniors-pan-american-championships/medal-summary
Bear with me here, I'm probably missing something obvious. Website indicates Seniors. In the end, I'm not saying having to go to the Last Chance Qualifier is the reason we struggled a bit at this year's Olympics, but seems like a bad look for one of the most elite countries to be scrambling at the last minute to qualify.
I wouldn't assume our "expats" do so because they think they can't win. Maybe some. But it's more of why go thru that meat grinder if you don't have to? Also, some "expats" do have legit family connections to those countries (RBY's grandfather, Micic's father at least).
There were 2 Pan Am tourneys within a few days of each other and in the same arena -- the Ranking Series tourney came first, and then the Olympic Qualifier. You were looking at the first.
Having to qualify at Last Chance is a speed bump but not the whole problem. It might have caused Spencer and Zain to miss the last Ranking Series event because it was only a month later, which might conflict with the training cycle. We probably only wanted to send them to 1 of those 2 events, and Last Chance was required.
But: IMO we're overblowing "USA struggled." 5 of the 6 guys lost to a finalist.
Wow......I know even less than I thought I did (LOL). Thanks for the detailed explanation.
And I agree with you, I am overreacting to our Olympic results, it's a razor thin margin that separates gold, and lower places. I guess I'm spoiled with PSU always getting that edge
