Academic Rankings-How does PSU move up?

[mnuccio2]

With all the talk about the recent article of PSU being ranked #117 academically according to Forbes, what does PSU have to do to move up the rankings? Is it even possible? Why does PSU seem to be dropping? What are the reasons for this?

When I first went to PSU we were ranked around #40 in I think the world news report. Now we are #60!! I enrolled in 1999. Is this all Sandusky?

What needs to be done to climb the ranks? I personally think the academic rankings are very important. Anyone else feel this way or concerned?

 

[Sharkies]

Oh boy

 

[PS4814]

For anyone that cares to think about improving meaningless rankings here is Forbes’ methodology for their list:

The rankings are based on five general categories: Alumni Salary (20%), a combination of early and midcareer salaries as reported by the federal College Scorecard and PayScale data and research; Student Satisfaction (20%), which includes results from Niche surveys on professor quality and data, and freshman retention rates from the federal IPEDS website; Debt (20%), which rewards schools for low student debt loads and default rates; American Leaders (15%), which is based on our Forbes database of successful people, including billionaires, powerful women, 30 Under 30 honorees, leaders in public service and in private enterprise, and more; On-Time Graduation Rate (12.5%), which accounts for both four- and six-year rates; and Academic Success (12.5%), which rewards schools whose alumni win prestigious scholarships and fellowships like the Rhodes and the Fulbright or have earned Ph.Ds.

Have fun!

 

[PS4814]

How about if someone cares about addressing the “non-meaningless” cliff-diving of Penn State’s actual academic standing?


Anyone care about that? Or is “open rectum, insert head” the Order of The Day?

Explain to me which of the metrics used actually addresses the quality of the education students are receiving?

 

[PS4814]

Why?

I am - obviously - not talking about some Magazine’s “metrics”. I think that was something you were talking about.
Right?


I was talking about Penn State’s shameful academic free fall.
Did I stutter? Have I not discussed those issues - at length - here and elsewhere? For years and years?

Yes you’re talking about academic rankings which I agree have fallen and that yes you have addressed to a great extent. Thing is that the original post asked specifically about the Forbes list which has little to nothing to do with academic standards and to equate the two is an error which is my point.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Take 1/3rd of the administrators, put them in the classroom teaching instead of the paper pushing they do now, class sizes shrink, student experience improves, administration will likely improve too

 

[Art]

Take 1/3rd of the administrators, put them in the classroom teaching instead of the paper pushing they do now, class sizes shrink, student experience improves, administration will likely improve too

You're on the right track, but you assume that those administrators are actually capable of teaching something that is worthwhile to learn.

 

[Jovialgent]

With all the talk about the recent article of PSU being ranked #117 academically according to Forbes, what does PSU have to do to move up the rankings? Is it even possible? Why does PSU seem to be dropping? What are the reasons for this?

When I first went to PSU we were ranked around #40 in I think the world news report. Now we are #60!! I enrolled in 1999. Is this all Sandusky?

What needs to be done to climb the ranks? I personally think the academic rankings are very important. Anyone else feel this way or concerned?

Penn State will never be Stanford or Michigan. If it were, I would not be an alum. I was admitted to the main campus, but I barely got in. I was more of a Slippery Rock, or IUP type of student. That aside, the university is headed in the wrong direction. It's academic reputation, on the rise for many years, is now in decline. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the President and BOT. Since I see no substantial change among that group in the next decade, the decline will continue.

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

Penn State will never be Stanford or Michigan. If it were, I would not be an alum. I was admitted to the main campus, but I barely got in. I was more of a Slippery Rock, or IUP type of student. That aside, the university is headed in the wrong direction. It's academic reputation, on the rise for many years, is now in decline. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the President and BOT. Since I see no substantial change among that group in the next decade, the decline will continue.

Stanford lol.

 

[manatree]

Did I stutter? Have I not discussed those issues - at length - here and elsewhere? For years and years?

pontificate ≠ discuss

 

[BobPSU92]

We could like ourselves more. Perhaps the world would pick up on our positive energy and like us more.

Or we could deepen our hatred of ourselves right to the bottom. That seems a lot easier.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Explain to me which of the metrics used actually addresses the quality of the education students are receiving?

The thinking by Forbes is if you graduate on time, have a nice salary, are satisfied with your education, have low student debt; and your school churns out successful people in business and has many recipients of prestigious academic awards - well, then that makes for a quality undergraduate education. What metrics would you use? Missing here IMO is whether or not the analysis includes only folks who enter the workforce without going to grad school first, or not.

 

[bison13]

Penn State will never be Stanford or Michigan. If it were, I would not be an alum. I was admitted to the main campus, but I barely got in. I was more of a Slippery Rock, or IUP type of student. That aside, the university is headed in the wrong direction. It's academic reputation, on the rise for many years, is now in decline. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the President and BOT. Since I see no substantial change among that group in the next decade, the decline will continue.

Well now there are plenty of psac type students at psu. I see kids here in md that don't get in to Salisbury but get in to main campus for psu. My normal response to them when they ask about anything is 'I don't know it's not the same'

 

[Fizz1]

How many top tier people are are lining up to work at PSU? Remember PSU was very close to announcing someone from SUNY when last minute info surfaced and the announcement was cancelled. Barron's personal relationship with his former boss, acting President Rod Erickson, had a lot do with the decision to come back home to fill the role.

https://onwardstate.com/2013/11/05/...come-penn-state-president-before-controversy/

"Details surrounding what happened last week with Penn State’s failed presidential announcement are becoming a little clearer tonight.


According to a report by Capitol Confidential, David R. Smith, the president of the State University of New York’s upstate medical campus, was set to become Penn State’s next president before allegations of financial dishonesty surfaced. The report sources two state officials who claim SUNY learned Smith was padding his state pay without authorization."

https://pennstatermag.com/2014/02/17/president-elect-eric-barron-i-have-a-lot-to-learn/

"Eric Barron spent 20 years at Penn State, a larger chunk of his professional career than he’s spent anywhere else, by a lot. He called Penn State’s current president, Rod Erickson, formerly his boss in the College of Earth and Mineral Sciences, “much more than that—he was my mentor.”

 

[rico18]

We were ranked 37th by US World News before the scandal happened.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

Joe was forced out. Things have gone to shit ever since. Coincidence? I think not.

Thanks, Ira. Great job.

 

[BobPSU92]

We suck.

 

[psute]

Taking this a little more cerebral, (may be a mistake) What is the mission of PSU? Seems to have become clouded. Is it to provide a world class undergraduate education to children of working class families at a reasonable price? Seems to me That ship has sailed, it ain't cheap to attend... Become a major research institution? Yep, some thanks to the BIG academic alliance, although they were standing on their own before joining the BIG. But how major is it? Seems like it's lost its way. No one is there to say yep, we'll sleep in an army barracks because you want to discriminate. Someone has to step to the plate and say this is what we are, and this is what we do. No person or institution can be all things to all people...

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

Taking this a little more cerebral, (may be a mistake) What is the mission of PSU? Seems to have become clouded. Is it to provide a world class undergraduate education to children of working class families at a reasonable price? Seems to me That ship has sailed, it ain't cheap to attend... Become a major research institution? Yep, some thanks to the BIG academic alliance, although they were standing on their own before joining the BIG. But how major is it? Seems like it's lost its way. No one is there to say yep, we'll sleep in an army barracks because you want to discriminate. Someone has to step to the plate and say this is what we are, and this is what we do. No person or institution can be all things to all people...

https://www.chronicle.com/article/This-5-Word-Phrase-Has-Become/246616

 

[manatree]

FU

It did not take long for you to prove my point. Thank you.

pontificate ≠ discuss

 

[BringBackStoneys]

With all the talk about the recent article of PSU being ranked #117 academically according to Forbes, what does PSU have to do to move up the rankings? Is it even possible? Why does PSU seem to be dropping? What are the reasons for this?

When I first went to PSU we were ranked around #40 in I think the world news report. Now we are #60!! I enrolled in 1999. Is this all Sandusky?

What needs to be done to climb the ranks? I personally think the academic rankings are very important. Anyone else feel this way or concerned?

The primary reason that our rankings have dropped is because the state legislature has abandoned higher education. PA provides PSU with $6000 LESS per in-state student per year compared to 1999. That prevents the university from hiring/retaining top flight faculty and has has necessitated tuition increases that make PSU less appealing to top students.

Want this to change? Vote out legislators who don’t have the guts to either take on state pension reform or raise taxes - one of those 2 is necessary if the state is going to get back to properly investing in higher education.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The primary reason that our rankings have dropped is because the state legislature has abandoned higher education. PA provides PSU with $6000 LESS per in-state student per year compared to 1999. That prevents the university from hiring/retaining top flight faculty and has has necessitated tuition increases that make PSU less appealing to top students.

Want this to change? Vote out legislators who don’t have the guts to either take on state pension reform or raise taxes - one of those 2 is necessary if the state is going to get back to properly investing in higher education.

Did a quick search on state funding for higher education at Penn State and - what I thought was somewhat comparable - Michigan. Penn State's funding increased by 3% in 2018 for a total of $327.4mm from the state (for various components of the Penn State system - including Hershey, Ag Research, and PA College of Technology). Michigan's funding from the state also increased by 3% this year, for a total of $330.4mm (for the Ann Arbor campus). Maybe norm can chime in with his take - are we that far off from Michigan? How are they ranked #2 for public universities when they get roughly the same amount of support from the state?

 

[Art]

The primary reason that our rankings have dropped is because the state legislature has abandoned higher education. PA provides PSU with $6000 LESS per in-state student per year compared to 1999. That prevents the university from hiring/retaining top flight faculty and has has necessitated tuition increases that make PSU less appealing to top students.

Want this to change? Vote out legislators who don’t have the guts to either take on state pension reform or raise taxes - one of those 2 is necessary if the state is going to get back to properly investing in higher education.

Yet, poor, destitute PSU has money for a new art museum. Might not be a bad idea
to see what it can do to get its house in order before making demands to the legislature.

 

[BobPSU92]

I’d like to see this follow us around on btn.

“There is a lot of optimism in Happy Valley this fall, yet the Nittany Lions enter the 2019 season with a dreadful academic profile and still recovering from the jerry sandusky scandal. We preview Penn Stare nowwwwww!”

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Norm is tired

Okay, I'll take a shot at it - state funding isn't the metric we should be using to blame on Penn State's recent academic skid - am I close?

 

[LurkerLazarus]

The reason we're sinking like a stone is because the BOT and the administration absolutely blows. Period. There is no other excuse that holds water.

 

[PSUMATT85]

The primary reason that our rankings have dropped is because the state legislature has abandoned higher education. PA provides PSU with $6000 LESS per in-state student per year compared to 1999. That prevents the university from hiring/retaining top flight faculty and has has necessitated tuition increases that make PSU less appealing to top students.

Want this to change? Vote out legislators who don’t have the guts to either take on state pension reform or raise taxes - one of those 2 is necessary if the state is going to get back to properly investing in higher education.

If you say it enough, people will believe.......

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

The primary reason that our rankings have dropped is because the state legislature has abandoned higher education. PA provides PSU with $6000 LESS per in-state student per year compared to 1999. That prevents the university from hiring/retaining top flight faculty and has has necessitated tuition increases that make PSU less appealing to top students.

Want this to change? Vote out legislators who don’t have the guts to either take on state pension reform or raise taxes - one of those 2 is necessary if the state is going to get back to properly investing in higher education.

Why would/should state gov't invest more in an institution that has been quite irresponsible with money?

 

[Art]

Okay, I'll take a shot at it - state funding isn't the metric we should be using to blame on Penn State's recent academic skid - am I close?

State funding is part of it. But materially increasing state funding to PSU before its own spending reforms take place is like giving five keys of uncut heroin to a hophead.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Yet, poor, destitute PSU has money for a new art museum. Might not be a bad ides to see what it can do to get its house in order before making demands to the legislature.

You don’t see the connection between having a vibrant arts community and attracting top global talent? When was the last time you left your basement?

 

[Art]

You don’t see the connection between having a vibrant arts community and attracting top global talent? When was the last time you left your basement?

Oh, spare me, you stupid ass. This "top global talent" is going to come to PSU for the"vibrant" arts scene when the school doesn't, as you intimate, have enough money to pay them.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Did a quick search on state funding for higher education at Penn State and - what I thought was somewhat comparable - Michigan. Penn State's funding increased by 3% in 2018 for a total of $327.4mm from the state (for various components of the Penn State system - including Hershey, Ag Research, and PA College of Technology). Michigan's funding from the state also increased by 3% this year, for a total of $330.4mm (for the Ann Arbor campus). Maybe norm can chime in with his take - are we that far off from Michigan? How are they ranked #2 for public universities when they get roughly the same amount of support from the state?

It’s hard to directly compare the dollar amounts because we are bigger and more complex but to bottom line it, Michigan gets 14% of its funding from the state while PSU gets about 7%.

 

[Art]

Well now there are plenty of psac type students at psu. I see kids here in md that don't get in to Salisbury but get in to main campus for psu. My normal response to them when they ask about anything is 'I don't know it's not the same'

Similar observation has been made at the HS at which my wife teaches.

 

[BobPSU92]

 

[Elwood Blues]

FU

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

This is a misleading metric and ranking if it includes main, branch, and global students.

Use the same metrics with branch and world campus students filtered out, and our ranking jumps 50 spots or more.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

Or..... you could have taken 10 seconds to read that part of the report to know that it is exclusively UP (Main Campus) data.


Or.... you could cling to adamant ignorance - which seems to be your raison d'etre.

Except the article specifically mention 2+2 students. Almost all of whom have lower HS qualifications than those admitted directly to main.

It's a bogus ranking.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Why would you want to put Administrators in the Classroom? Instead of simply "selling them South"?

The people at the top would never have the stones to release a bunch of "vice assistants to the associate dean" types so moving them into the classroom would mean getting some value from them. Most of them taught at one time -- before they decided to become mere overhead -- and could do so again

 

[BobPSU92]

Hire Condoleezza!

 

[joeparules]

I seem to remember the ranking go up after someone challenged the BOTs to do a better job!? Unfortunately that person is no longer around to kick them in the arse. And we all know Baron doesn’t have the balls to do or say anything meaningful. I suspect the number will continue to drop with the current “leadership”.