Only partly!Spin, I gave you a thumbs up because your post is entertaining...though I assume tongue-in-cheek...
I am so cynical anymore. No different than studio wrestlin’
All is not well in Buckeye Land
- Thread starter Jerry
- Start date
I am so cynical anymore. No different than studio wrestlin’
Maybe CJF puckers up against OSU the way Cooper-Day usually does in big games and against Michigan. CJF seems to do alright against everyone else. Reality ---- some coaches just collapse under the pressure to win in the big games.
I think you are right. OSU wins that game 8 or 9 out of 10. The FG kicker was a disaster and their worst nightmare came true with Howard having a bad game. How much was this the Michigan defense and how much was him just choking?
What are the odds that the FG kicker misses two inside 40 yards? I didn't see the game but still stunned OSU could not get really any big plays from Smith or Egbuka.
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It is psychological at this point with the two. Franklin can't mentally get past OSU and Day can't mentally get past Michigan. At least we have never been 20 point favorites vs OSU and lose.
You are probably correct but in the last ten minutes he should have passed a bit more with three NFL receivers. I think he lost faith in Howard by that point.
Agreed. I feel like we don't play our game against tOSU. I don't think we have that confidence, some call is swagger. I feel like PSU's dancing and preening aren't backed by real toughness or meanness. I'd love to see a player team meeting to come together and take a business-like approach to a big game. Stop the BS and go toe-to-toe.
we'll see what happens against Oregon. They are clearly the best team in the nation. PSU has no pressure, only upside. We need to turn Andy K's offense loose. Hold nothing back. Let's lose by 100 or win.
This game is a bit strange from the standpoint that it is a very big game but we are playing with nothing to lose really, house money so to speak. We are underdogs and not expected to win and if we don't win we are still hosting a playoff game so the pressure is not like a do or die situation. Maybe with this backdrop the team will play looser and Franklin will coach looser and not get so tight.
Chickman is right about the effect of last years Lou Holtz comment…that is about OSU under Day not being tough. People show their true character under pressure. We all saw Days defensive reaction after Holtz made his comment. This year he was trying to show his detractors that indeed OSU is tough. So he called the game to show that. We saw the result.
There was no expectation of a Big 10 title in '16. That team just gelled and hit their groove at the right time and won out.
'17 could be considered a blown opportunity because we returned a lot of the '16 team. '16 just overachieved and created expectations.
Can't help but think their current NIL payroll of $20MM + along with Coaching salaries of $20MM+ is certainly raising some eyebrows especially with the success their rivals have had most recently..
Did you watch the game?
I don't feel like you did.
Weather wasn't a factor beyond being cold. Weather doesn't explain some of the calls. 3rd and 10 draw play to kick a FG? The final possession where they didn't even throw beyond a 5 yard route knowing they had less than a minute to go 50+ yards with a FG kicker who had stunk so far?
It's one thing to be conservative, but at no point did they attack down the field. You have the best WR group in the country. 2 bonefide 1st rounders and Tate is probably a 2-4 round guy right now along with guys we haven't even seen yet and Michigan is missing their best CB.
It just made no sense.
Yep...and tOSU held them to next to nothing in passing and only 13 points.
In the meantime, that Michigan defense gave up 20 to Indiana, 21 to Illinois, 24 to USC/Minnesota, and 31 to TX.
Exactly. It isn't like every time Howard dropped back to pass he was getting sacked or the DL was deflecting his throws or DBs were getting a ton of PBUs.
I wish OSU played us like that once. Lol
One explanation: the coaching staff lost all faith in Howard.
Gotta wonder what they saw on the sidelines. What was the look on his eye? What was said between them? Did they see panic? A lack of confidence?
And if they saw the worst, why not go with the backup? Is the backup that bad/unprepared?
Strange things……
Dave, I did watch the game...every minute of it...and all of your points are covered by the straightforward analysis in my post. No need for exotic theories requiring a psychoanalysis of Ryan Day when the much more standard explanation of a basically conservative game plan will do. Besides, it's not possible to get inside the coach's head and silly to try in my view.
It makes no sense retroactively because it didn't work. It would have made a lot more sense if their kicker had made a couple ordinary field goals, their QB hadn't had his worst day of the season with a couple back-breaking turnovers, and the Michigan kicker hadn't looked like Harrison Butker. Hard to game-plan for that kind of thing.
I think the weather was a factor and did affect Buckeye plans. Highs in the mid-20s, a wind chill in the mid-teens, a breeze of, what, 10-12 mph. That's a factor.
Let me ask you something. Take the 3rd and 10 draw you mention. You think that was called to prove Buckeye machismo? Really? No. It was just a dumb call that didn't work. Again: conservative game plan; the justified anticipation of Michigan offensive deficiencies; the weather; dumb play-calling; bad performance by the QB; bad missed field goals by the kicker. Some days things just don't work out...even for 20-point favorites.
I don't think they lost faith in him as much as he was ineffective. Perhaps it was just a bad day to have a bad day.
No less than 3 times alone this season you have commented on games that you didn't watch. That's why I asked.
It'd not just THAT 3rd and 10 alone. They ran the ball on multiple 3rd and longs. At least 3, perhaps 4 times.
Look at the play by play. When OSU came out throwing, they moved the ball. When they came out running, the drives got stopped. They averaged 3.0 ypc and that is greatly inflated by 3 Judkins runs of 17, 15, and 10. Aka they couldn't run AT ALL.
Again, it was a bad day to have a bad day.
When did they stop passing? Was it after the interception at the goal line? A terrible throw to a wide open, uncovered receiver. Just lob it over the DE and it’s a touchdown.
Agree. A quick look at the stats
- tOSU with 175 yards passing 19/33 attempts, 77 yards rushing on 26 attempts
- UM with 62 yards passing 9/16 attempts, 172 yards rushing on 41 attempts.
tOSU wins the stats battle, but barley
total yards 252 to 234
59 plays to 58
both had two turnovers
16 first downs to 13
tOSU with 19 penalty yards, UM with 50
I mean, it really comes down to tOSU missing two FGs in a close game. But it certainly seemed like Ohio State didn't use their WRs enough but the stats would suggest that this isn't true. I, in fact, have told friends the same thing you said but that doesn't appear to be the case.
But those don’t tell the whole story….to misquote Paul Harvey
How many passes were more than ten yards? Or just quick outs? How many were in the last two possessions with the game on the line?
Geez, Dave, I didn't know you kept track of these things. Just out of curiosity, what were the 3 games I commented on but didn't watch? Honest question because I have no idea what you're referring to.
As for the second part of your comment, you're not saying anything I don't agree with or making any point that was not covered in my earlier post, the entire thrust of which was that we don't need a psychoanalysis of Ryan Day to explain where Ohio State went wrong. The Buckeyes weren't trying to prove anything. They were trying to win the game. They failed. Sometimes that happens.
If you don't remember minute details about certain posters, that's neither here nor there. I didn't write it down, but perhaps one was USC/Minnesota. I didn't look it up.
I guess your definition of it and mine are similar, but viewed differently. Watching the game, commenting here, it seemed like Day ran the ball in spots that they wouldn't have vs PSU as a prime example. At the end of it all, it was a terrible game plan with the players at their disposal. The OL is missing 2 if not 3 guys who were the original starter. They pass block better than they run block. Michigan's biggest strength is at DT.
My point? Throw the ball. Look at the drives they came out passing. They moved the ball. The drives they came out running? Ints, punts.
That is a big part. If OSU makes those FGs, Michigan has to drive for a TD.
Still, the play calling sucked. Call it conservative, call it proving a point. Take the last missed FG drive. 1st and 10 at Michigan 16. Judkins run, no gain. 2nd down, pass to TE Scott, no gain (had to be near LoS). 3rd and 10, Henderson no gain. 4th down, missed kick.
Yep. I thought Howard simply sucked. He's a good kid but wilted in this game. I have to laugh when I hear things about Allar's big game performance with half the WRs tOSU has.
I'm not disagreeing at all with your analysis and was having a hard time figuring out where you disagreed with mine since the two seem to track pretty well. Ohio State's play-calling sucked, which is one big reason they lost the game...but not the only one.
I just don't think their failed game plan was a product of Ryan Day trying to prove his team's machismo. As a general rule of life, it's usually wiser not to look for complicated explanations when simpler, more obvious ones will suffice.
I still don't know which three games you're referring to regarding supposed comments on games I didn't watch. In any case, I think it's allowed to post a comment on a game or game result or individual play in a game that you didn't personally watch or watched only in part on replay...as long as you're not attempting to mislead somebody into thinking you did watch it in order to give yourself an air of authority.
Re Minnesota-USC, I recall commenting on the controversial booth reversal that gave the Gophers a last-minute win two months ago. I also recall specifically stating that I hadn't watched the game or seen the play live and was only giving my opinion based on what had been reported. I'm not sure how any of that would be out of order.
And I do.
That's one. It is wrong to present an opinion about what happened when you didn't see it. You didn't mention that you didn't watch it until a post or two later. I feel like you may have done it again with Minnesota/Michigan, but I didn't comment in the thread and may misremember. I do know for fact it happened once and it feels like you have multiple times.
Again, only making the point that I saw no point in discussing it with you if you didn't watch. It wasn't about any misrepresented opinion.
Priority #1 against Oregon is stay healthy. Everything else is secondary to that.
OK, so you think Ohio State lost the game due to Ryan Day's misplaced machismo while I think the reason has more to do with an excessively conservative game plan affected in part by weather...plus the QB's bad game and critical mistakes...plus the kicker missing two fairly easy field goals.
In other words, we disagree. It happens. No offense taken.
Re your "wrong to present an opinion about what happened when you didn't see it," I think that's nonsensical. We frequently express opinions about things we didn't personally see whether on sports or a hundred other topics. Typically those opinions are based on the reports of others who did see or otherwise have knowledge of the issue at hand.
As for the claim that I didn't mention I didn't watch the Minnesota-USC game until a post or two later, you're flat-out wrong. In fact, the very first five words in my very first post in the thread were: "I didn't watch the game..." I know this because I went to the trouble of looking it up after your (inaccurate) statements.
Then you say you "feel" I may have committed the same (non)-offense in the case of Minnesota-Michigan. So which is it? You "feel" or you know? I mean, you were dead wrong about Minnesota-USC so I'm thinking you may also be wrong about Minnesota-Michigan.
To paraphrase your line from above, I think it's wrong to present an opinion based on an entirely erroneous recollection of facts especially when that opinion casts the actions of another person in a negative light.
All this said, Dave, I've always enjoyed your posts here and given them a bunch of thumbs-up. We disagree on the Ohio State game. No biggie. I do think you went off the rails a bit with the assertion that I've improperly offered opinions on games or plays that I haven't seen so I called you on that. But at the end of the day, we can agree to disagree there as well.
He was asked the question at the press conference and said that he felt good enough to play. He didn't say he was 100% healthy. This explains to me why Day was playing for a field goal in the 4th quarter from the 10 yard line.
Freeman is nowhere near the coach that Ryan day is between the loss to Northern Illinois earlier in the year and only having 10 men on the field near the very end of the game against OSU last year. People suggesting Freeman show just how difficult it would be to get somebody better than Ryan Day who at the current time has the number one recruiting class for 2025. Also people forget that Jim harbaugh lost his first seven games against Urban Meyer and Ryan Day. Would have been eight games except for the chicken out in the 2020 season when Michigan had a terrible team.
I forgot that he took a pretty big shot earlier in the game. Imagine, PSU has a deeper QB bench than tOSU. Amazing.
Who has a deeper quarterback bench is an interesting question. Devin Brown who is second string was a highly rated four star who tends to be a better runner than a passer. Hasn't played much this year and I can understand the reluctance of the staff to put him in in such a big game. Julian Sayin is a five-star freshman from alabama. Air Noland is variously rated as a very high four-star or by some services as a five-star. There is another five star who has committed for this january. Ohio state's quarterback room is extremely deep although I don't know that I would say that the second string quarterback at this time could come in and do a reasonably good job in a big game.
Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink.
Interesting enough, it's probably because we've given Beau so much meaningful game work.
At the end of the day, if all of our backups were in the portal, the Buckeye 5*s would get more attention, yet OSU wasn't willing to let any of them take a snap. That says something, but it's entirely too early to say what.
It's a boat we've been in before with considerably less talented QBs. Moral of the story, OSU probably should have stuck with McCord. I haven't seen anything that demonstrates Howard was an upgrade.
That's a fascinating question...whether the Bucks would have been better off sticking with McCord.
I mean, the guy led a Syracuse team not predicted to do anything special to 9 wins capped off with the big victory over Miami and a likely decent bowl invitation. He put up some pretty good numbers in the process.
Meanwhile, Howard did pretty well statistically but at the end of the day failed miserably as a 20-point favorite against Michigan...whereas McCord came close to pulling out the W as a slight underdog in Ann Arbor last year.
If they had stuck with McCord, would they have done worse than 10-2 this year? Doubtful. Their offense sure as hell wouldn't have done worse against Michigan.
I think the verdict will be given during the playoffs. Lots of pressure on Ohio State now to win at least a couple games during the tournament and it's hard to see that happening unless Howard plays well. I guess we'll find out.
At the simplest level, one could say McCord went 11-1 with a weaker roster (relatively speaking; neither roster was remotely weak, but '24 is definitely stronger overall) while Howard went 10-2 with an upgraded RB duo (Henderson, healthy all year, and Judkins), WRs probably advantage to '24 (MHJ is a huge loss, but healthy Egbuka and Smith offset that along with Tate emerging). OL was upgraded for '24, but injuries caught up. TE advantage to '23 (Stover was very good).
This isn't even accounting for the defense bringing everyone back plus adding Downs.
Howard had a great year statistically, but they came up short twice. McCord got run off for coming up short once. I don't remember Howard being harassed near as much as McCord in the losses, but that could have been offset by Howard's mobility (which I don't think they used enough save their game with us).
McCord and Howard had equally bad games. Howard was obtained to strengthen OSU's run game. McCord was a statute in the pocket and would have gotten killed by Michigan's very good defensive line going against OSU's depleted line. McCord played behind a better offensive line last year anchored by the left tackle (OSU's best lineman) who was out for this game. When he was subjected to a good rush on last drive, he couldn't move well and threw an interception while going down. Howard during the 4 games he through over 80% completion rate was a much better qb than McCord.
Like I said, Buck, it's one of those interesting questions whose answer can't be proven one way or the other.
However, I'm guessing McCord was not shedding tears at how things worked out for you guys on Saturday.
I do think the playoffs will tell the story. I think Ohio State needs at least two wins accompanied by a solid performance by Howard for the quarterback switch to be judged successful.
But based solely on the most important game of the year, it seems like McCord has an edge. Last season you went into Ann Arbor as an underdog but had a good shot late at pulling off the upset whereas this year you were 20-point favorites at home but were undone by a totally inept offensive performance.
