ADVERTISEMENT

anybody listening to the UFO hearings today?

I have said that a higher life form is (1) visiting the earth, or that (2) that such life has found a place on earth to hide. For the latter one would have to suppose that this life form evolved and then decided -- for whatever reason -- to hide itself while it then monitors the evolution of humanity. I will go with the former. It is ET.

You would claim neither. Humans are the highest life form because a higher life form is not on display at the Smithsonian. When evidence/testimony doesn't fit your belief it is faked or the product of "nut jobs." That tells me that you really haven't looked at much. You were not even familiar with the Kecksburg incident, which was witnessed across several states before the object gently glided to earth. It did not behave like a meteor, as the government had claimed. Meteors are not scribed with symbols.

The issue I have with you is that you have decided to denigrate people -- those who look at all of these independent cases and have decided that the probability of ALL OF THEM being false is zero. You claim the opposite -- that none are 100%, so therefore all must be 0%.

Moreover, given the 2018 leak, you must also now assume that there is an enormous conspiracy that spans across all branches of our military, that all of these officers are part of the conspiracy (or that they are "nut jobs"), and they are all really good at faking their emotions.

You must believe that these people are not only our best aviators and seaman, but that they could put the people in Hollywood to shame -- all of them.

I like my side of the probability curve on this one.
Why do you insist on telling me and others what they know, believe, and think? Yes, I am familiar with the Kecksburg work of fiction. Since I choose to see it as BS you claimed I didn’t look into the event. I don’t care who the people are that testify. Please provide evidence, not just “Trust me, I thought I saw an alien.” You blindly believe people. I don’t.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WV Bruno
Why do you insist on telling me and others what they know, believe, and think? Yes, I am familiar with the Kecksburg work of fiction. Since I choose to see it as BS you claimed I didn’t look into the event. I don’t care who the people are that testify. Please provide evidence, not just “Trust me, I thought I saw an alien.” You blindly believe people. I don’t.

That's false. I don't blindly believe "anyone." Some are more credible than others, but that doesn't mean that the less credible are lying. As I stated, I am looking at it through probabilities. All of it has to be false for your take to be true, whereas for my position it takes only one case out of thousands. As of 2018 we now we have irrefutable cases.

The TicTac and Gimbal cases would be enough on their own. Everything is there except for a downed craft. I think since the Iranian case we have learned that it is fruitless to shoot at these things. And why would we do that when we already have the artifacts? If we did not have the artifacts, surely we would be shooting at these things, right? That alone is an admission.

Given those cases, it becomes more likely that the people you would dismiss as "nut jobs" have actually been telling the truth. Not everyone, but "some." Very few people would be able to benefit from lying or concocting a story. Motive always has to be considered. In this stuff there would be reason for the reverse -- to not report. That invites ridicule. It invites people like you.

I really don't care what you believe. I DO CARE when a Pitt troll comes on our board and dumps trash into a topic that I feel is the most important issue of our time, save perhaps the problem of defining the source for consciousness.
 
That's false. I don't blindly believe "anyone." Some are more credible than others, but that doesn't mean that the less credible are lying. As I stated, I am looking at it through probabilities. All of it has to be false for your take to be true, whereas for my position it takes only one case out of thousands. As of 2018 we now we have irrefutable cases.

The TicTac and Gimbal cases would be enough on their own. Everything is there except for a downed craft. I think since the Iranian case we have learned that it is fruitless to shoot at these things. And why would we do that when we already have the artifacts? If we did not have the artifacts, surely we would be shooting at these things, right? That alone is an admission.

Given those cases, it becomes more likely that the people you would dismiss as "nut jobs" have actually been telling the truth. Not everyone, but "some." Very few people would be able to benefit from lying or concocting a story. Motive always has to be considered. In this stuff there would be reason for the reverse -- to not report. That invites ridicule. It invites people like you.

I really don't care what you believe. I DO CARE when a Pitt troll comes on our board and dumps trash into a topic that I feel is the most important issue of our time, save perhaps the problem of defining the source for consciousness.
You keep making assumptions regarding what I believe. Keep believing I’m a Pitt troll. You’re wrong there, which goes with the rest of the fake hoaxy crap you spew. Take your own advice and go away. Hutch a ride on one of those alien spaceships.
 
You keep making assumptions regarding what I believe. Keep believing I’m a Pitt troll. You’re wrong there, which goes with the rest of the fake hoaxy crap you spew. Take your own advice and go away. Hutch a ride on one of those alien spaceships.

You are not a Penn State fan/alum, so why are you on this board? Why would you post within a thread on a topic that you think cannot be proven for or against? Why have an opinion at all? According to you there is no data.
 
You are not a Penn State fan/alum, so why are you on this board? Why would you post within a thread on a topic that you think cannot be proven for or against? Why have an opinion at all? According to you there is no data.
You just keep doubling down on stupid. Wrong again. WTF is paying you to post this BS alien propaganda? You are mentally disturbed.
 
You just keep doubling down on stupid. Wrong again. WTF is paying you to post this BS alien propaganda? You are mentally disturbed.

So you are a PSU alum. Explain your handle for us.

Since you think you are knowledgeable on the subject, what do you think Commander Fravor meant in using the phrase "... It was not of this world ..." ? Is he mentally disturbed like me?
 
Last edited:
So you are a PSU alum. Explain your handle for us.

Since you think you are knowledgeable on the subject, what do you think Commander Fravor meant in using the phrase "... It was not of this world ..." ? Is he mentally disturbed like me?
Narduzzi made a comment during a preseason press conference, which sounded like a prediction to me regarding the season, so I created a name by combining Narduzzi with Nostradamus. He isn’t a Nostradamus, so the name is not complimentary. I’ve been banned from the panther liar board for years. Shocking, I know.

I’m sure Fravor believes he saw something not of this world, or behaving other worldly. The video of the object(s) are poor quality. I assume he also saw the object with the naked eye.
 
Narduzzi made a comment during a preseason press conference, which sounded like a prediction to me regarding the season, so I created a name by combining Narduzzi with Nostradamus. He isn’t a Nostradamus, so the name is not complimentary. I’ve been banned from the panther liar board for years. Shocking, I know.

I’m sure Fravor believes he saw something not of this world, or behaving other worldly. The video of the object(s) are poor quality. I assume he also saw the object with the naked eye.

So did his co-pilot, and so did the other jet that took the video that was released. The Gimbal incident -- a more saucer shaped craft -- is much more compelling. It has been said that there is much sharper imaging that did not get released, but of course we have no "proof" of those images. We do have the emotional reactions of the pilots as they were exposed to these craft.

What we also have that makes this compelling is the concurrent radar data. We even have testimony from the Princeton's operator to that effect. Why would he send jets from the Nimitz if there was nothing on his radar? Why would he lie? How do you explain the split second movement of the tic-tac -- verified on radar, with imaging, and by the naked eye? For the Gimbal incident, why would we hear about "a fleet of them" on the AESA. Did that system malfunction as the aviators watched the UFO rotate? Just by chance?

Sorry, but you are on the wrong side of this issue. A true scientist should be probing, not dismissing, and certainly not denigrating, when it comes to one of the greatest questions facing humanity. Don't be a part of the problem. Become a part of the solution.
 
So did his co-pilot, and so did the other jet that took the video that was released. The Gimbal incident -- a more saucer shaped craft -- is much more compelling. It has been said that there is much sharper imaging that did not get released, but of course we have no "proof" of those images. We do have the emotional reactions of the pilots as they were exposed to these craft.

What we also have that makes this compelling is the concurrent radar data. We even have testimony from the Princeton's operator to that effect. Why would he send jets from the Nimitz if there was nothing on his radar? Why would he lie? How do you explain the split second movement of the tic-tac -- verified on radar, with imaging, and by the naked eye? For the Gimbal incident, why would we hear about "a fleet of them" on the ASA. Did that system malfunction as the aviators watched the UFO rotate? Just by chance?

Sorry, but you are on the wrong side of this issue. A true scientist should be probing, not dismissing, and certainly not denigrating, when it comes to one of the greatest questions facing humanity. Don't be a part of the problem. Become a part of the solution.
I don’t have that kind of time to kill. What are you doing to solve this great UAP issue? Seriously, how are you helping or assisting?
 
For anyone that is interested in a reasonable opinion listen to Neil Degrassi interview on CNN.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: GreggK
For anyone that is interested in a reasonable opinion listen to Neil Degrassi interview on CNN.

That's a terrible perspective. He blames this on hardware glitches and then ignores the eyewitness accounts. He's not looking at it from a probability perspective. What is the likelihood that not only multiple independent systems fail in the same way at the same time, but that eyewitness accounts also occur at the same time? I would say that is zero.

He's just frustrated that his own hardware isn't picking up the activity, or maybe it is and he has reason to report otherwise. It is entirely possible that these craft are being "transported" in ways that make themselves invisible to his particular type of technology as well as the naked eye. Witnesses/cameras have seen orbs combine, separate, and then disappear. Does his instruments pick up a craft going 20-30 times faster than the speed of sound? How about Warp speed?

It's clear that the propulsion of these craft involves some type of nuclear power that is then an altering a gravitational field. Light becomes distorted around the craft, so the photographs appear fuzzy and of low quality. How does stuff like that affect his instruments? It certainly alters the quality of what we want to see in a photograph or video, but the object is still there. That it is of low quality to our eyes does not say that the object isn't a solid space craft or that it was faked for lack of resolution.

I think for as much as we think highly of our advances we are most likely primitive in relative terms. How long has the Industrial Revolution been going on relative to the age of our planet? Has our recent advances not become exponential? Where do you think we will be in another millennium? Would an alien species really have to be far out of sync relative to human evolution for it also to become far more advanced -- to the point that we cannot comprehend what we are witnessing?

This guy on CNN is just a debunker to shed scrutiny of his own research results. In fact I've seen him debunk stuff on a TV show that any common man might deem silly. In other words, like the Warren Commission Report on the JFK killing, a lot of nonsense is getting introduced as filler just to dilute the stuff that has merit.

I don’t have that kind of time to kill. What are you doing to solve this great UAP issue? Seriously, how are you helping or assisting?

I debate on message boards to raise awareness. Someday when I can finish some other projects I expect to make this issue a part of a book. It would be science fiction intended to teach what is possible, and in my eyes likely. It would merge what we now consider to be disparate subjects.

We are not going to move forward and get to the truth if most people don't care about it or believe stuff that is false. There is a lot of resistance because people cannot fit things into their system of beliefs.

I would say that religious teachings adopted very early in lives has become a major block towards progress. Ironically, this doesn't mean that those beliefs are necessarily false.

The scientific community, like this guy on CNN, are often major blocks towards progress. He gets trusted through his position and then fools people, just like others on CNN, by omitting and/or distorting the facts. That is exactly what he did in that clip -- a soundbite that can sway people merely through the lack of completeness.
 
I've seen four UFO's in my lifetime. Two of the four were from a fairly short distance, within 250 - 400 meters. It's easy to say what they weren't but impossible to say what they were. They certainly were not conventional aircraft.

I also had a Sasquatch encounter in 1986 in Colorado.

There is a lot of strange stuff in the world. I've seen enough of it not to be so dismissive when people say they have had a strange encounter.
 
I'm all for studying this... as long as it doesn't cost any money. Otherwise it just becomes another government slush fund.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joeaubie21
I've never been a believer as I just can't imagine the technology it would take to overcome physical challenges. But some of the best minds to ever live, Einstein included, thought it was not only possible but probable at some point in the future.


Sorry, I missed Dooz bullshit session.
 
I'm all for studying this... as long as it doesn't cost any money. Otherwise it just becomes another government slush fund.

It already is. That is the point of the hearings. Billions are being funneled into research of "something".
they just wont tell us what one way or the other.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 91Joe95
Of course there are UFOs. All that means is that we couldn't identify what it was. It doesn't mean aliens.
We better hope it's not aliens, because if they are and have this type of technology, they can wipe us off the map anytime they choose to do so.
 
I've seen four UFO's in my lifetime. Two of the four were from a fairly short distance, within 250 - 400 meters. It's easy to say what they weren't but impossible to say what they were. They certainly were not conventional aircraft.

I also had a Sasquatch encounter in 1986 in Colorado.

There is a lot of strange stuff in the world. I've seen enough of it not to be so dismissive when people say they have had a strange encounter.

Howsabout ghosts? Seen any of them?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Vic Vaselino
'Kay.👽

There are a few options here.

1. Military officers, pilots, soldiers and the military as a whole are lying, and they also created several agencies that suck out millions/billions. If that is the case, it is definitely worth exposing and figuring out what is going on. IE, why are huge sums being stolen from the taxpayers.

2. Foreign adversaries have advanced weapons that we do not have an are endangering our pilots and going into restricted airspace. And the military is hiding that from us.

3. We have advanced technology/weapons (seems likely here).

4. It is something else. Ridicule that as you wish, I am not making a claim there either way.

What I can say is, there are two kinds of people who drive me crazy, religious nuts and atheists. Or in this case, conspiracy nuts and skeptics. What do these people have in common? The inability to say "I don't know".
 
There are a few options here.

1. Military officers, pilots, soldiers and the military as a whole are lying, and they also created several agencies that suck out millions/billions. If that is the case, it is definitely worth exposing and figuring out what is going on. IE, why are huge sums being stolen from the taxpayers.

2. Foreign adversaries have advanced weapons that we do not have an are endangering our pilots and going into restricted airspace. And the military is hiding that from us.

3. We have advanced technology/weapons (seems likely here).

4. It is something else. Ridicule that as you wish, I am not making a claim there either way.

What I can say is, there are two kinds of people who drive me crazy, religious nuts and atheists. Or in this case, conspiracy nuts and skeptics. What do these people have in common? The inability to say "I don't know".
I do know. The universe has a speed limit. They can't get here from there.
 
There are a few options here.

1. Military officers, pilots, soldiers and the military as a whole are lying, and they also created several agencies that suck out millions/billions. If that is the case, it is definitely worth exposing and figuring out what is going on. IE, why are huge sums being stolen from the taxpayers.

2. Foreign adversaries have advanced weapons that we do not have an are endangering our pilots and going into restricted airspace. And the military is hiding that from us.

3. We have advanced technology/weapons (seems likely here).

4. It is something else. Ridicule that as you wish, I am not making a claim there either way.

What I can say is, there are two kinds of people who drive me crazy, religious nuts and atheists. Or in this case, conspiracy nuts and skeptics. What do these people have in common? The inability to say "I don't know".
That is a typical response from a conspiracy theorist. Deny you are one then say I was just asking the question.
 
I do know. The universe has a speed limit. They can't get here from there.

It certainly does, but there are also ways around it. Theoretically of course, but theoretically according to the heavyweight physicists of our time. I am not saying I think it is aliens by the way.
 
That is a typical response from a conspiracy theorist. Deny you are one then say I was just asking the question.

Why not address what I said rather than labeling me? I honestly don't have any idea about "what is going on". I think it is unlikely to be UFO's from another planet. Saying something is impossible just isn't in my nature. That being said, our own military is saying very alarming things. The question is why? Again, I am not saying that means its aliens, but if it is China for instance, that is very very bad news. And we should know so we as a country can get our act together.

And if the military is making it up, why the hell would they do that?
 
That is a typical response from a conspiracy theorist. Deny you are one then say I was just asking the question.

And I for one would like to congratulate the crazy lefties for redefining conspiracy to mean true.
 
It already is. That is the point of the hearings. Billions are being funneled into research of "something".
they just wont tell us what one way or the other.

Yeah, I went off a few years ago when this stupid and wasteful group was announced.
 
There are a few options here.

1. Military officers, pilots, soldiers and the military as a whole are lying, and they also created several agencies that suck out millions/billions. If that is the case, it is definitely worth exposing and figuring out what is going on. IE, why are huge sums being stolen from the taxpayers.

2. Foreign adversaries have advanced weapons that we do not have an are endangering our pilots and going into restricted airspace. And the military is hiding that from us.

3. We have advanced technology/weapons (seems likely here).

4. It is something else. Ridicule that as you wish, I am not making a claim there either way.

What I can say is, there are two kinds of people who drive me crazy, religious nuts and atheists. Or in this case, conspiracy nuts and skeptics. What do these people have in common? The inability to say "I don't know".

Re UAP/UFOs, I think your attitude is sensible. In fact, it tracks with mine as expressed above in the thread. Opinions that track with mine tend to be sensible. ;)

I quoted Shakespeare's famous line from Hamlet to close my post. There's another famous line that goes to your point about the inability to say "I don't know." It's a paraphrase from Socrates, a guy who's on anybody's list as one of the top-5 thinkers in the history of our race: The wise man knows how little he knows. The older I get, the more true those words ring.

As for "religious nuts and atheists," I'd amend that to read "religious nuts and atheist nuts." Large numbers of believers are not nuts and I've certainly known some atheists who were not. But of course there are also no shortage of people from both categories, religious and atheist, who do fit the "nut" bill.

Nuts are commonly zealous and judgmental...displaying both traits to the point of fanaticism. It's a trademark characteristic of psychologically insecure people, which nuts generally are.

However, the larger point is that there's a critical difference between certain knowledge of the sort one may have with a basic fact of science...and on the other hand a reasonable belief of the kind that is not within the province of science to confirm but can be supported by observable evidence and logical deduction. Religious faith...and the rejection thereof...are both in the latter category.

Going back to the UFO/UAP issue, I think your first three hypotheses collapse pretty quickly on logical inspection, so I lean to #4. But "something else" encompasses a large number of possibilities, some of them, as I said in my earlier post, outside the realm of human comprehension, which is why I also said "I don't know."

I will add, however, that the notion of unimaginably advanced beings defying all known laws of science and physics to travel to this planet just to play peek-a-boo games with assorted mystified humans seems a little off to me. Not ruling it out but I think we need to consider possibilities outside the three-dimensional box for other potential explanations.
 
Re UAP/UFOs, I think your attitude is sensible. In fact, it tracks with mine as expressed above in the thread. Opinions that track with mine tend to be sensible. ;)

I quoted Shakespeare's famous line from Hamlet to close my post. There's another famous line that goes to your point about the inability to say "I don't know." It's a paraphrase from Socrates, a guy who's on anybody's list as one of the top-5 thinkers in the history of our race: The wise man knows how little he knows. The older I get, the more true those words ring.

As for "religious nuts and atheists," I'd amend that to read "religious nuts and atheist nuts." Large numbers of believers are not nuts and I've certainly known some atheists who were not. But of course there are also no shortage of people from both categories, religious and atheist, who do fit the "nut" bill.

Nuts are commonly zealous and judgmental...displaying both traits to the point of fanaticism. It's a trademark characteristic of psychologically insecure people, which nuts generally are.

However, the larger point is that there's a critical difference between certain knowledge of the sort one may have with a basic fact of science...and on the other hand a reasonable belief of the kind that is not within the province of science to confirm but can be supported by observable evidence and logical deduction. Religious faith...and the rejection thereof...are both in the latter category.

Going back to the UFO/UAP issue, I think your first three hypotheses collapse pretty quickly on logical inspection, so I lean to #4. But "something else" encompasses a large number of possibilities, some of them, as I said in my earlier post, outside the realm of human comprehension, which is why I also said "I don't know."

I will add, however, that the notion of unimaginably advanced beings defying all known laws of science and physics to travel to this planet just to play peek-a-boo games with assorted mystified humans seems a little off to me. Not ruling it out but I think we need to consider possibilities outside the three-dimensional box for other potential explanations.

I don't think they are playing "peek-a-boo." In fact the incidents with our military are rather brazen. They have done everything but shoot us down. On the other hand, there is a UFO case in which a launched ballistic missile allegedly did get shot down. It is claimed that a UFO encircled the missile and fired some type of laser beam to destroy it. There may be other cases that impacted our test programs -- events that the military would obviously want to keep from the public.

Why monitor the military? That is rather simple on two counts:
  1. Suppose you were observing the behaviors of a lower species. Some within the species are going about feeding themselves and reproducing peacefully. Others for some reason are trying to kill each other. Which group gains your attention?
  2. Incidents appear to have increased after WW2, and there seems to be particular interest at nuclear facilities, missile sites, and nuclear-power ships. As an outside observer you are thus seeing a major technological step change in human evolution. You might be concerned of a new threat to peace in the galaxy.
Per our current physics we now rely on nuclear power when an application requires a concentrated source of power. It's just expensive. It would seem likely to me that a more advanced species merely found a way to make it cheap.

Per the "peek-a-boo" thought, to me these incidents parallel what we would be doing if visiting a less developed planet. We would study the planet's biology, and try not to interfere with what occurs naturally. Otherwise we would be ruining the study itself. I think at least some of the abduction cases are for real. It's also not a stretch to imagine that a biological program might be interested in a hybrid species.

You can be willing to say "I don't know," but that doesn't make it any less sensible to look at the possibilities and run with what is most likely. Is there really much difference between "alien" and believing that this is something from another "dimension" -- what we might even call spiritual? In both cases we are going beyond the realm of the current human population. To me it seems a much greater stretch to think that ALL of these cases are of human origin.

The "higher creature" makes sense unless you believe that not only can humans develop exotic technology -- energy, materials, navigation -- with extreme speed, but then that all of the cases that involve witnesses of non-humans are patently FALSE. To me that is a huge stretch, a statistical improbability.

It seems much more likely to me that some other species in the galaxy merely advanced faster than humans have advanced, and we have not advanced enough to understand them.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Vic Vaselino
There are a few options here.

1. Military officers, pilots, soldiers and the military as a whole are lying, and they also created several agencies that suck out millions/billions. If that is the case, it is definitely worth exposing and figuring out what is going on. IE, why are huge sums being stolen from the taxpayers.

2. Foreign adversaries have advanced weapons that we do not have an are endangering our pilots and going into restricted airspace. And the military is hiding that from us.

3. We have advanced technology/weapons (seems likely here).

4. It is something else. Ridicule that as you wish, I am not making a claim there either way.

What I can say is, there are two kinds of people who drive me crazy, religious nuts and atheists. Or in this case, conspiracy nuts and skeptics. What do these people have in common? The inability to say "I don't know".
All of that is probably true (aside from your last paragraph). What is mind boggling to me is the notion that space aliens have harnessed the ability to warp or bend time. They have been able to approach or exceed the speed of light. And in doing so, changed the time continuum. And if that is true, then time travelers are not only possible but probable. And if one can time travel, it is entirely possible to go back in time and help the Nazi military assassinate Hitler/save Franz Ferdinand/convince Pontius Pilot to spare Jesus (etc.).

Einstein said that approaching the speed of light would slow down time. A planet 300 light years away would take 300 years to navigate to if traveling the speed of light. A being, of any type, would have to a) go faster than the speed of light or b) have a lifespan where 300 years was inconsequential. Einstein felt that light reflected reality. What you see and know is based on your perception of light as it bounces off of objects. If you can approach, exceed light, you can reverse time as you will see light before it is reflected. I can't wrap my head around that. Light simply reflects reality. If you go faster than light, you could see reality before it happened but you wouldn't be able to change it because it is simply the reflection of reality and not reality. So perhaps there are beings that are both: have life spans that are hundreds of thousands of years and can slow time with near-light speed.

What am I missing?
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT