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As the Paterno, Spanier and Alum Trustees cases grind forward,

demlion

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Feb 4, 2004
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some of the same documents (including some/all of the Freeh report docs) will be the subject of motions practice before the various courts. In the Paterno and Spanier cases there are defamation claims that depend in part for their success on the Plaintiff showing that the Freeh docs do not support the Freeh Report.

As I said yesterday in the thread on the litigation, to the extent the Freeh docs are not supportive of the narrative, AND to the extent there are other things, not in the Freeh report, which show the narrative to be false, that is good evidence and ought to be admissible at a trial of the defamation claims. Moreover, in defamation cases, one of the most important aspects of the remedy of trial is that the injured Plaintiff gets to put on the evidence which shows the TRUTH of the matter.

Suppose there is an email or other communication from CSS to the DPW/CYS/Raykovitz. Or notes of a conversation, or eye/ear witness to the communication or some other chunk of evidence that definitively shows the premise of the Freeh Report is bunk. Not only is that good evidence at trial, I would argue that it can neither be considered ACP NOR subject to some sort of gag order which keeps it from the public.

Remember, somebody at PSU or in the Freeh Group made a conscious decision to give Freeh's conclusions the widest possible play--big news conference in Philly with mobile news trucks backed up around the block, national TV audience, etc. (Last I checked, PSU is headquartered in State College, not Philly.) If that presser was full of lies and defamatory exaggerations, then the correction has to be just as widely publicized or it does not serve the purpose of mitigating the damage.

A WORD OF CAUTION: many of you have noticed that the press often gets it wrong when writing about legal matters. This is because the reporters are not lawyers, they are trying to simplify the matter to an eighth grade reading level, and they do not care. They also do not have full access to the info, and are usually getting whispers outside of court from interested parties. My analysis suffers from a lack of full access to the court files for sure.

We are poised to get some further truth this year, I believe.
 
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Definitely a challenge to tell the story at the 8th grade level.

Who ARE the best reporters in PA? Having been so disappointed in much of the coverage, we should all be aware of who has the chops. I know Wendy has made a point of contacting reporters, but it seems like some of the brightest and most promising are on the take. So disappointed in Van Natta.
 
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Wow. I don't know the answer to your question. Kiesling of Lancaster is an excellent Op-Ed writer, but I have little feel for whether he does much investigative work. I know he is engaged on this as much as anyone.

Of course we have a Pulitzer-winning reporter who went to PSU, but she is occupied measuring snowbanks for CNN, and is too busy to dig into this right now.:)
 
Yes, Kiesling is excellent and yes, he does a lot of investigative work. I should have mentioned him. In fact, I think I'll ask him who he thinks is the *least bad* out there!
 
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Remember, somebody at PSU or in the Freeh Group made a conscious decision to give Freeh's conclusions the widest possible play--big news conference in Philly with mobile news trucks backed up around the block, national TV audience, etc. (Last I checked, PSU is headquartered in State College, not Philly.) If that presser was full of lies and defamatory exaggerations, then the correction has to be just as widely publicized or it does not serve the purpose of mitigating the damage.
Also possible that somebody other than PSU or Freeh engineered the production. Somebody with connections to both the BOT and with Freeh. (If you know what I mean.)
 
It seems to me if you wanted confidentiality with the sources, control all documented interview notes, and a (attorney-client-) privileged relationship with the contracted party running the investigation, AND USE the results as a management tool, you wouldn't have a representative of the contracted party have a public review of the results before internal organizational members (including alumni-elected BOT) had a chance to review,
discuss, and debate the results.

Don't Freeh's actions to make the investigation public nullify any valid confidentiality. You can't have it both ways (selectively in house and out of house) or in the Old Guard BOT's ways, every which way that suits your position a the time.
 
Per Demlion
Remember, somebody at PSU or in the Freeh Group made a conscious decision to give Freeh's conclusions the widest possible play--big news conference in Philly with mobile news trucks backed up around the block, national TV audience, etc. (Last I checked, PSU is headquartered in State College, not Philly.) If that presser was full of lies and defamatory exaggerations, then the correction has to be just as widely publicized or it does not serve the purpose of mitigating the damage.

Yes, I agree, the communications surrounding the overall plan (which seems much more than 'just send us the report when you're done') are as important as the content supposedly supporting the conclusions.
 
Per Demlion
Remember, somebody at PSU or in the Freeh Group made a conscious decision to give Freeh's conclusions the widest possible play--big news conference in Philly with mobile news trucks backed up around the block, national TV audience, etc. (Last I checked, PSU is headquartered in State College, not Philly.) If that presser was full of lies and defamatory exaggerations, then the correction has to be just as widely publicized or it does not serve the purpose of mitigating the damage.

Yes, I agree, the communications surrounding the overall plan (which seems much more than 'just send us the report when you're done') are as important as the content supposedly supporting the conclusions.
Remember when they planned to ensure that the website containing the Freeh report was "mysteriously" offline so no one could read the report in advance of Louie's press conference? Stroke of genius right there.
3-b5fee1c060.jpg
 
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It's also been hinted at there might have been another draft of the Freeh report. IF that is true it would be very interesting to know what was in that report. Was there another draft in case Sandusky was found not guilty? Was the other draft to harsh on the OG trustees? Is there evidence in the other draft that is helpful to C/S/S? Time will tell and this year will be very interesting for sure.
 
It's also been hinted at there might have been another draft of the Freeh report. IF that is true it would be very interesting to know what was in that report. Was there another draft in case Sandusky was found not guilty? Was the other draft to harsh on the OG trustees? Is there evidence in the other draft that is helpful to C/S/S? Time will tell and this year will be very interesting for sure.
Not sure about different drafts, but certainly it seems some of the exhibits were removed late in the process
 
And was everything from the Schultz file included in the Freeh Report? That would likely be easy to prove given Schultz handed it over after his admin made copies. We also know that an email from Schultz to Harmon re: the 1998 report was omitted from the report. Just reading the report, it is obvious it is written as an indictment and Freeh had not responsibility to include exculpatory evidence.
Hell, he didn't even say he looked for evidence and found none that the 2001 incident was reported. He included info from Courtney where he recalled it was reported, yet never indicated that he investigated further.
 
And was everything from the Schultz file included in the Freeh Report? That would likely be easy to prove given Schultz handed it over after his admin made copies. We also know that an email from Schultz to Harmon re: the 1998 report was omitted from the report. Just reading the report, it is obvious it is written as an indictment and Freeh had not responsibility to include exculpatory evidence.
Hell, he didn't even say he looked for evidence and found none that the 2001 incident was reported. He included info from Courtney where he recalled it was reported, yet never indicated that he investigated further.
Thanks Lundy. all good points. No mater what happens in this election, everybody here will continue to rely on your encyclopedic knowledge of this case and the reasonable way in which your conclusions do not exceed the facts.
 
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what do you predict to happen this year?
Don't know if you meant that question for me, but the BIG thing is the Alum Trustees will have access to the Freeh Report source docs. The Paterno and Spanier cases are moving into some interesting legal issues now as well. To the extent they are granted the kind of discovery we are hoping for, we will find out about stuff that is NOT in the Freeh Report source docs. I am just hopeful this year will be revealing on the nuts and bolts aspects--I have no more info than anyone else.
 
Thanks Lundy. all good points. No mater what happens in this election, everybody here will continue to rely on your encyclopedic knowledge of this case and the reasonable way in which your conclusions do not exceed the facts.
Thanks Dem. Good luck with the election. Not on this board as much these days, but glad I can contribute some facts and reason to the discussion.
 
I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.

Also, Freeh was not supposed to issue his report until late summer or early fall of 2012. However, I have been told but have not yet confirmed that he was directed to accelerate the report's issuance.

I will not speculate as to the reason(s) for the rush to issue the report on July, 12th.
 
I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.

Also, Freeh was not supposed to issue his report until late summer or early fall of 2012. However, I have been told but have not yet confirmed that he was directed to accelerate the report's issuance.

I will not speculate as to the reason(s) for the rush to issue the report on July, 12th.



If true, I certainly hope you get access to emails from people (BoT, OAG, NCAA) to Freeh regarding the report. It would be interesting to see who was directing these changes and shortened the timeline for the release- and why it had to be done so soon. If the original report didn't blame CSS and Paterno what changed that? I assume it will be another legal fight to see any of those communications to Freeh.
 
I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.

Also, Freeh was not supposed to issue his report until late summer or early fall of 2012. However, I have been told but have not yet confirmed that he was directed to accelerate the report's issuance.

I will not speculate as to the reason(s) for the rush to issue the report on July, 12th.
TY AL.

I think we all appreciate getting some insight from folks on the BOT......and, as this post demonstrtaes, it clearly CAN be done without even approaching any type of "confidentiality breach". This is the type of communication I think we all expect (and, quite frankly, deserve) and I applaud your efforts.
 
I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.
Wow. If that is true, it will be significant. Particularly if they can find some e-mail traffic between Freeh's firm and the BoT prior to the issuance of the revised Freeh Report.

Dem has mentioned "the NY Times vs. Sullivan problem" that the Paterno family will confront in their defamation suit. For the non-lawyers out there, I am referring to the fact that NYT vs. Sullivan ruling (a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in a case dealing with a defamation claim) held that a plaintiff who is a public figure must prove that the defendant published the defamatory material with knowledge or reckless disregard of its falsity in order to recover. (In other words, it's not enough that the defamatory material was false; you've gotta prove the defendant either knew it was false or didn't care whether it was false.)

Since Joe was undoubtedly a public figure, the family surely will confront that additional burden. I hope they can meet it, but even if they do not, I believe they are more interested in the truth coming out for everyone to see than they are in money damages, and that will hopefully occur during the discovery process in any event.
 
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I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.

Also, Freeh was not supposed to issue his report until late summer or early fall of 2012. However, I have been told but have not yet confirmed that he was directed to accelerate the report's issuance.

I will not speculate as to the reason(s) for the rush to issue the report on July, 12th.
You obviously aren't in a position to publicly speculate but message boards are a great forum for anonymous speculation by people like me. The old guard BoT was in "move on" mode as evidenced by the shenanigans of Peetz and Frazier. Sandusky was convicted in June of 2012 and a Freeh report which cast PSU in a good light would have been completely rejected. In the spirit of "moving on" as soon as possible, the OG had the Freeh piece say everything the public wanted to hear regardless if it was true or not. They would then fall on the proverbial sword and everything would be a distant memory by 2014. Hey Peetz, how's that working out??

In addition, since Freeh was in contact with the AG's office it was important his "report" didn't conflict with anything the AG was pushing in regard to Sandusky and C/S/S. Imagine if Freeh didn't report any wrongdoing by C/S/S one year after they were charged. People would have been asking the AG what was going on. So here we are four and a half years after C/S/S were charged and they're still twisting in the wind.
 
TY AL.

I think we all appreciate getting some insight from folks on the BOT......and, as this post demonstrtaes, it clearly CAN be done without even approaching any type of "confidentiality breach". This is the type of communication I think we all expect (and, quite frankly, deserve) and I applaud your efforts.


Remember, Jabba the Hutte Eckel wanted lawyers at all meetings so that "everything was ACP". This embarrassing fat ass needs to go.
 
Well said nittpicker and I agree with having to go along with the AGs office...lubrano keep up the pressure and hopefully we all find out some more info soon
 
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Go back and look carefully at Freeh's engagement letter. The presumption was guilt on the part of Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz and Curley.

The "investigation" could only result in one outcome: a confirmation of that presumed guilt.

As a member of Freeh's investigative team has allegedly told folks, " we gave Penn State exactly what they wanted."
 
do we have any kind of timeline of when the alumni trustees can review the source materials and release a statement or take any kind of action?
 
As a member of Freeh's investigative team has allegedly told folks, " we gave Penn State exactly what they wanted."

Al: Love hearing about that statement, as depressing as it is. I hope we can get that person to state it for the record and under oath..
 
Go back and look carefully at Freeh's engagement letter. The presumption was guilt on the part of Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz and Curley.

The "investigation" could only result in one outcome: a confirmation of that presumed guilt.

As a member of Freeh's investigative team has allegedly told folks, " we gave Penn State exactly what they wanted."

One thing that was brought up in earlier in this thread today: what is the story behind Freeh's Phila. news conference? Orchestrated how and by who?
 
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You obviously aren't in a position to publicly speculate but message boards are a great forum for anonymous speculation by people like me. The old guard BoT was in "move on" mode as evidenced by the shenanigans of Peetz and Frazier. Sandusky was convicted in June of 2012 and a Freeh report which cast PSU in a good light would have been completely rejected. In the spirit of "moving on" as soon as possible, the OG had the Freeh piece say everything the public wanted to hear regardless if it was true or not. They would then fall on the proverbial sword and everything would be a distant memory by 2014. Hey Peetz, how's that working out??

In addition, since Freeh was in contact with the AG's office it was important his "report" didn't conflict with anything the AG was pushing in regard to Sandusky and C/S/S. Imagine if Freeh didn't report any wrongdoing by C/S/S one year after they were charged. People would have been asking the AG what was going on. So here we are four and a half years after C/S/S were charged and they're still twisting in the wind.

Don't forget the pressure I'm sure the NCAA was putting down on PSU & Louis Fraud. The NCAA didn't want to start the football season without having hammered PSU. A late summer/early fall report announcement would be too late.
 
I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.

Also, Freeh was not supposed to issue his report until late summer or early fall of 2012. However, I have been told but have not yet confirmed that he was directed to accelerate the report's issuance.

I will not speculate as to the reason(s) for the rush to issue the report on July, 12th.
If true that could be big news. The million dollar questions... 1) why the content and timeline change and 2) who requested those changes?
Go back and look carefully at Freeh's engagement letter. The presumption was guilt on the part of Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz and Curley.

The "investigation" could only result in one outcome: a confirmation of that presumed guilt.

As a member of Freeh's investigative team has allegedly told folks, " we gave Penn State exactly what they wanted."
Is the engagement letter public? I don't recall seeing a copy.
 
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I am told but have not confirmed that the earliest drafts of the Freeh Report did not condemn the administrators or Joe.

Also, Freeh was not supposed to issue his report until late summer or early fall of 2012. However, I have been told but have not yet confirmed that he was directed to accelerate the report's issuance.

I will not speculate as to the reason(s) for the rush to issue the report on July, 12th.

Thanks Anthony! Great work!

Let me just make a wild guess as to why the favorable report was trashed and not released in late summer or early Fall. Corbett's main target, enemy, and nucleus as to why this all started would have been exonerated. Corbett wanted to indict Spanier right before the Fall 2012 Attorney General election. A favorable Freeh Report would have effectively nuked that "strategy".
 
It's not speculation.



Wait- please bear with me as the timing has slipped in my memory over the years.

So all hell breaks loose in November, 2011. So in 3 months everything hit the fan, the BoT hired Freeh, the NCAA came to the Nittany Lion Inn to brief Freeh people on what they needed in terms of NCAA violations, the Freeh people conducted 300- 400 interviews (forget the exact #) and were wrapping up the report enough that it was already known by February (in roughly 12 weeks...... that included the Thanksgiving/ Christmas/ New Years holiday seasons) that it would be out in the spring?

Am I missing something in terms of the timing? Who is Amy Chisholm? Who did she work for and how would she have the inside info that the report would be out in the spring when everyone was told Fall of 2012?
 
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One thing that was brought up in earlier in this thread today: what is the story behind Freeh's Phila. news conference? Orchestrated how and by who?

Most likely by Kekst. iirc Freeh wanted it in NYC, but was talked into having it in Phila, and we knew about that press conference with what..a week's lead time...? I recall many giving their input and hurriedly putting together a questionnaire to give out to the media present that day.

Still tho - one does not simply book a ballroom downtown for some "random" day in July on a whim. Equipment, staging, set-up...not to mention the crush of press & satellite trucks obstructing traffic on 17th Street. The place was a circus.
 
Wait- please bear with me as the timing has slipped in my memory over the years.

So all hell breaks loose in November, 2011. So in 3 months everything hit the fan, the BoT hired Freeh, the NCAA came to the Nittany Lion Inn to brief Freeh people on what they needed in terms of NCAA violations, the Freeh people conducted 300- 400 interviews (forget the exact #) and were wrapping up the report enough that it was already known by February (in roughly 12 weeks...... that included the Thanksgiving/ Christmas/ New Years holiday seasons) that it would be out in the spring?

Am I missing something in terms of the timing? Who is Amy Chisholm? Who did she work for and how would she have the inside info that the report would be out in the spring when everyone was told Fall of 2012?

I don't know where you're getting all that.
The emails attached to the PS4RS tweet show that the Freeh people were already trolling for NCAA work by February 2012.
Amy Chisholm was a Freeh lawyer.
 
Been following everything here for years, but never posted before. Just wanted to make sure people remembered another reason why the announcement may have been moved up. One week later was this ...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...m-wins-appeal-in-FIFA-bribery-case/56347494/1

The last thing Freeh would want is people questioning his methods at PSU in the wake of the FIFA verdict being overturned for a lack of conclusive evidence. Had to get the PSU report done before that decision came down.
 
And this comment left on one of Ray's SMSS posts about Tom Corbett :

"Corbett also said the following about a meeting he had with Freeh concerning his upcoming investigation- (will paraphrase his words, article with quotes has been wiped clean from Pennlive) - 'You better believe I talked with L Freeh. I told him to look at the PSU administration, how they don't communicate/get along with the BOT'. No bias, no influence, no preconceived slanted opinion from the Governor of Pa. Very independent and comprehensive. Not."

http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2013/08/freeh-found-nothing-during-his.html#comment-form
 
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