B1G Pre Seeds Announced

[PSUbluTX]

Sorry, drawing a blank on this. At what point are the seeds/team selections cemented in place? I assume that a team can decide who to send at each weight right up to the day the tournament starts (?), but if they send a wrestler not included in the B1G’s seeding, any substitution would result in the new wrestler being unseeded. Now that I type this it doesn’t sound correct. Seems it would have to be locked down way earlier to not throw the seeding/brackets into disarray.

 

[jmadden1998]

Bigger issue is that they had a chance to wrestle as they dualed each other and it didn’t happen. Instead, Young wrestled against IMAR and got teched....the no show (Marinelli) should get the lower seed IMO.

Marinelli was hurt, he wasn’t a “no show”. Using that rationale, Nolf was a no show against Kemerer.

 

[caliPSUfan]

Marinelli was hurt, he wasn’t a “no show”. Using that rationale, Nolf was a no show against Kemerer.

Just comparing two undefeated wrestlers...I agree that Kemerer should be a 1 and Nolf a 2 in this tournament

 

[RoarLions1]

Sorry, drawing a blank on this. At what point are the seeds/team selections cemented in place? I assume that a team can decide who to send at each weight right up to the day the tournament starts (?), but if they send a wrestler not included in the B1G’s seeding, any substitution would result in the new wrestler being unseeded. Now that I type this it doesn’t sound correct. Seems it would have to be locked down way earlier to not throw the seeding/brackets into disarray.

Coaches meeting Friday will finalize everything.

 

[lookleft goright]

It's a vote. Only takes 1 oir 2 coaches to skew it. If noithing else changes and assuming Beasley didn't lose to Ritter (I dont know) at the coaches meeting Wilke will be slotted behind Beasley. If Beasley did lose to Ritter then Beasley and Ritter will be swapped instead with Wilke remaining where he is.

Are you sure? Usually they have a criteria where if you are seeded behind a guy but you are not close enough in points, you cannot argue. Since Nolf and Kemerer are tied, they can argue, but Panteleo probably is not close enough to Nolf to move ahead of him. It is usually something like 4 or 5 points. With Beasley taking his weird losses, he may not be close enough to Wilke to get a higher seed and Ritter may not be close enough to Beasley to get a higher seed.

 

[lookleft goright]

Coaches meeting Friday will finalize everything.

That meeting usually takes about 30 minutes tops. The pre seed voting really makes it a pretty clean affair.

 

[RoarLions1]

That meeting usually takes about 30 minutes tops. The pre seed voting really makes it a pretty clean affair.

Let's say I've heard stories . Not always as "clean" as one might think...

 

[WreslingFan0314]

The B1G's are 16-man brackets., so first round matchups all total 17 (except where byes are involved, of course). In other words, 5 seed would wrestle 12-seed, 7-seed would wrestle 10-seed, etc.

[If seeds hold, quarterfinal matchups total 9, semis 5]

How are byes determined? In that format, it would seem 1 & 2 would always get a bye, and the other 14 would match up as you suggested (sans a forfeit by a school creating a 3rd opening). But when I look back at the brackets last year that is not the case. For example, last year at 149 the 4 and 7 seeds got byes and the 1st & 2nd seeds wrestled in the first round.

While we are on procedural issues, what is the purpose of the pre-seeds? And how often do those seeds change at the coaches meeting? Looking at 141 there are only 8 pre-seeds, how are the others drawn into the bracket?

Thanks in advance!

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Are you sure? Usually they have a criteria where if you are seeded behind a guy but you are not close enough in points, you cannot argue. Since Nolf and Kemerer are tied, they can argue, but Panteleo probably is not close enough to Nolf to move ahead of him. It is usually something like 4 or 5 points. With Beasley taking his weird losses, he may not be close enough to Wilke to get a higher seed and Ritter may not be close enough to Beasley to get a higher seed.

I don't think point spread has anything to do with being seeded directly behind a guy you have h2h criteria on. I don't expect Beasley to be the 4th seed when the brackets are final.

 

[El-Jefe]

How are byes determined? In that format, it would seem 1 & 2 would always get a bye, and the other 14 would match up as you suggested (sans a forfeit by a school creating a 3rd opening). But when I look back at the brackets last year that is not the case. For example, last year at 149 the 4 and 7 seeds got byes and the 1st & 2nd seeds wrestled in the first round.

While we are on procedural issues, what is the purpose of the pre-seeds? And how often do those seeds change at the coaches meeting? Looking at 141 there are only 8 pre-seeds, how are the others drawn into the bracket?

Thanks in advance!

If they seed all 14, then 1 and 2 get byes.

If they seed 8, then the other 6 get random draws.

 

[RoarLions1]

How are byes determined? In that format, it would seem 1 & 2 would always get a bye, and the other 14 would match up as you suggested (sans a forfeit by a school creating a 3rd opening). But when I look back at the brackets last year that is not the case. For example, last year at 149 the 4 and 7 seeds got byes and the 1st & 2nd seeds wrestled in the first round.

While we are on procedural issues, what is the purpose of the pre-seeds? And how often do those seeds change at the coaches meeting? Looking at 141 there are only 8 pre-seeds, how are the others drawn into the bracket?

Thanks in advance!

When seeded to 14, #1 and #2 ALWAYS get a bye. Otherwise, the 8 seeded wrestlers are placed in the brackets, and the other 6 wrestlers are placed by random draw.

Pre-seeds have an enormous amount of time the day prior to the tournament. Done in advance frees the coaches up to do coaching-stuff the day before the tourney, putting the finishing touches on their preparation.

Changes are rare, but do happen (I can't remember the last change...and don't have time right now to look it up).

 

[slicone]

I don't think point spread has anything to do with being seeded directly behind a guy you have h2h criteria on. I don't expect Beasley to be the 4th seed when the brackets are final.


Yes that is exactly what it has to do with, you have to be within 4(seeding) points of the person seeded ahead your guy to bring it up for further debate.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

If they seed all 14, then 1 and 2 get byes.

If they seed 8, then the other 6 get random draws.

When they don't seed all the way to 14 the byes are thrown into the pool with the 6 unseeded wrestlers as random draws as well, correct? Any of the 14 wrestlers could get a bye?

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

I don't think point spread has anything to do with being seeded directly behind a guy you have h2h criteria on. I don't expect Beasley to be the 4th seed when the brackets are final.


Yes that is exactly what it has to do with, you have to be within 4(seeding) points of the person seeded ahead your guy to bring it up for further debate.

I stand corrected.

 

[RoarLions1]

When they don't seed all the way to 14 the byes are thrown into the pool with the 6 unseeded wrestlers as random draws as well, correct? Any of the 14 wrestlers could get a bye?

No, unseeded wrestlers will NEVER get a bye, and seeded wrestlers 9-14 will never get a bye.

 

[PSUbluTX]

I stand corrected.

And I stand educated (and often confused). Wish I could do a mind meld with Roar, Jefe, and some of the other wrestling brainiacs on this board.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Way too complicated for 10 total 14 man brackets.

 

[El-Jefe]

And I stand educated. Wish I could do a mind meld with Roar, Jefe, and some of the other wrestling brainiacs on this board.

Leave me out of that. You'll get dumber by the minute.

 

[El-Jefe]

Way too complicated for 10 total 14 man brackets.

Agreed. Just run 16-man brackets with all 14 guys seeded at every weight. Done.

B10 officials so obsessed about making bye distribution "fair" that they forget the ultimate fairness is give it to who earned it.

 

[dunkej01]

Agreed. Just run 16-man brackets with all 14 guys seeded at every weight. Done.

B10 officials so obsessed about making bye distribution "fair" that they forget the ultimate fairness is give it to who earned it.

Yeah fair lands us with opening round byes which cuts into our bonus point potential.

other teams might want the byes....we dont

#wewantthematches

 

[El-Jefe]

Yeah fair lands us with opening round byes which cuts into our bonus point potential.

other teams might want the byes....we dont

#wewantthematches

Could always treat Bye like FFT and give the bonus. That's fair, you earned it for being top 2.

If that's too easy, then only if you win the next match.

But really, patently unfair for Zain to not get bonus for Bye, but Jake Ryan's opponent gets bonus.

 

[RoarLions1]

Don't mind it the way it is...still looking at the best wrestling in the country, and always has been a top-notch tourney.

 

[nitlion6]

Could always treat Bye like FFT and give the bonus. That's fair, you earned it for being top 2.

If that's too easy, then only if you win the next match.

But really, patently unfair for Zain to not get bonus for Bye, but Jake Ryan's opponent gets bonus.

Fair is subjective. The rules are laid out before the season starts and they is what they is.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Fair is subjective. The rules are laid out before the season starts and they is what they is.

All true.

What should be noted is teams were not happy with the situation El-Jefe described, and this format crept out of it. Note we are only talking about when the tourney is seeded thru 8. Placing random byes is fair considering there is an equal chance guy who earns a #9 seed could get a match up with #1 in the first round and #10 in first round of consi.

Or we could try the PIAA state’s method of seeding no one.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Yeah fair lands us with opening round byes which cuts into our bonus point potential.

other teams might want the byes....we dont

#wewantthematches

It was a bit annoying to see Penn State have byes from 157-184 last year. That was a lot of potential bonus points. They also had byes at 141 and 197.

 

[jpsolo]

All true.

What should be noted is teams were not happy with the situation El-Jefe described, and this format crept out of it. Note we are only talking about when the tourney is seeded thru 8. Placing random byes is fair considering there is an equal chance guy who earns a #9 seed could get a match up with #1 in the first round and #10 in first round of consi.

Or we could try the PIAA state’s method of seeding no one.

PIAA seeds the regional champs now.

 

[aalion]

HR all last week "Spencer Lee should be seeded ahead of Suriano."

Today "No way a guy with one loss should be ahead of Kemerer."

To be fair to HR (cannot believe I just typed that) Lee's loss was not in the BIG, and Nolf's was (regardless of the nature of the 'loss'). BIG record is supposed to be the prime (but not only) consideration. I think there is a fair argument for Lee and Bull and Kemerer. I think there is a fair argument for NS and IMAR and Nolf. Which is why there are 14 opinions that count, not just 1.