Brady Berge about to go in Semis of Mn Xmas Tournament
- Thread starter Chickenman Testa
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Track, I believe. Quick fall for him. Should meet Allar in the finals for a good one. Could see RBY-Manville, too, the way Carson is wrestling.
That's the standard? I should feel good about paying $70 to watch a football game on tv tomorrow because a ticket would have cost me $75?
Nice! Did a track search on the kid he beat. Pretty tough. Went to SV with O'Malley this year (NJ and Fargo runner-up)
I'm just curious as to what one feels the going rate should be for one of the top high school tournaments in the country. Is it The Beast or The Ironman? No, but it's an extremely well-run tournament with a lot of quality and a good number of nationally-ranked kids.
There has to be some value associated with our events. We don't have sponsors lining up handing us money hand-over-fist to be featured on webcasts or television.
$10 to watch one kid. Ok, I can see your point, but the $10 also gave you access to the entire tournament, live and after the fact, so if you missed something, you go back and watch it.
Flo's $20 a month is pricey to some, but if you're watching more than 10 events a year (averaging $10), it's worth it. Track has more of an a la carte option, which can cater to the one-off viewer (grandma or relatives who aren't wrestling junkies).
Taking the whole football ticket comparison isn't even in the same ballpark.
So what WOULD/SHOULD you pay for single tournaments?
LemonPie, no one is giving out those numbers. Not Track, not Flo. Only people who get the numbers of who watches/total subscribers are the tournament directors ... most of the time.
There has to be some value associated with our events. We don't have sponsors lining up handing us money hand-over-fist to be featured on webcasts or television.
$10 to watch one kid. Ok, I can see your point, but the $10 also gave you access to the entire tournament, live and after the fact, so if you missed something, you go back and watch it.
Flo's $20 a month is pricey to some, but if you're watching more than 10 events a year (averaging $10), it's worth it. Track has more of an a la carte option, which can cater to the one-off viewer (grandma or relatives who aren't wrestling junkies).
Taking the whole football ticket comparison isn't even in the same ballpark.
So what WOULD/SHOULD you pay for single tournaments?
LemonPie, no one is giving out those numbers. Not Track, not Flo. Only people who get the numbers of who watches/total subscribers are the tournament directors ... most of the time.
I would pay what I pay for a movie rental. $3.99/$4.99. I haven't paid a dime to track, but if they had reasonable pricing, I would have shelled out $20 by now.
I feel like Track is definitely ripping off the supportive grandmas/relatives out there. The wrestling junkies aren't buying it when they can get FLO for $12.50/month with one lump payment
Are the moms and dads buying it? I guess maybe they are. Good on you, track. Hell they'd probably pay $20 to watch their kid from home as opposed to the expense of making the trip. Keep price gouging. The real wrestling fans won't watch.
I feel like Track is definitely ripping off the supportive grandmas/relatives out there. The wrestling junkies aren't buying it when they can get FLO for $12.50/month with one lump payment
Are the moms and dads buying it? I guess maybe they are. Good on you, track. Hell they'd probably pay $20 to watch their kid from home as opposed to the expense of making the trip. Keep price gouging. The real wrestling fans won't watch.
You're looking at $5 a day for a two-day tournament. So you're out a couple of sodas on a quick trip to Kwik Trip, right?
You're also spending more time watching wrestling than you will for the two-hour movie rental (unless you're on a LOTR binge). So if you want to put a cost-per-hour on the thing, a dual meet would be more in line for $3.99/$4.99 than a two-day tournament with eight mats running live.
I think the a la carte pricing is more favorable for the one-off viewer. One time, done. Don't have to worry about canceling, just over and done. Junkies are going to buy what they will buy, but also, a sizeable part wrestling people is notoriously cheap. Same people complaining about "promotion of the sport" with premium services and PPV are the same people going in the side door of a HS dual meet because they know it's open vs. paying the $5 to get in the door.
I'd be curious if Track had a subscription model in the works to give fans an option like say you'd consider.
I spent probably 2 hours today watching the U.S. Open on Flo, I'm sure some people spent 8-10 hours watching it. So think of that as an a la carte purchase. If you're spending $4-5 on a two-hour movie, why should what could be equivalent of watching 4-5 movies not be the equivalent of renting two?
Some wrestling people are also spending 50-60 bucks to watch 5-6 UFC fights on PPV for 3-4 hours.
Disposable income not withstanding, I think any two-day event with 12-14 hours of live streaming is worth a one-time shot of $10-15. Especially if my hometown team or family is competing.
Not saying you're wrong by any means, I'm just curious on the PPV discussion in wrestling since there used to be ONLY one-offs (Which rarely worked, LiveSportsVideo), and now we have two consistent players, one with a subscription and the other with a la carte.
You're also spending more time watching wrestling than you will for the two-hour movie rental (unless you're on a LOTR binge). So if you want to put a cost-per-hour on the thing, a dual meet would be more in line for $3.99/$4.99 than a two-day tournament with eight mats running live.
I think the a la carte pricing is more favorable for the one-off viewer. One time, done. Don't have to worry about canceling, just over and done. Junkies are going to buy what they will buy, but also, a sizeable part wrestling people is notoriously cheap. Same people complaining about "promotion of the sport" with premium services and PPV are the same people going in the side door of a HS dual meet because they know it's open vs. paying the $5 to get in the door.
I'd be curious if Track had a subscription model in the works to give fans an option like say you'd consider.
I spent probably 2 hours today watching the U.S. Open on Flo, I'm sure some people spent 8-10 hours watching it. So think of that as an a la carte purchase. If you're spending $4-5 on a two-hour movie, why should what could be equivalent of watching 4-5 movies not be the equivalent of renting two?
Some wrestling people are also spending 50-60 bucks to watch 5-6 UFC fights on PPV for 3-4 hours.
Disposable income not withstanding, I think any two-day event with 12-14 hours of live streaming is worth a one-time shot of $10-15. Especially if my hometown team or family is competing.
Not saying you're wrong by any means, I'm just curious on the PPV discussion in wrestling since there used to be ONLY one-offs (Which rarely worked, LiveSportsVideo), and now we have two consistent players, one with a subscription and the other with a la carte.
Diminishing returns and whatever other curves you may want to check out. My guess is Track probably has some idea of what to expect from $4, $10 or $15 fees and at the end of the day the biggest bang for the buck was guesstimated with some sort of research support to be around $10.
Whether that is too much or just about right from an individual's point of view means 1 data point.
Whether that is too much or just about right from an individual's point of view means 1 data point.
You could start by not renting movies for $3.99/$4.99. Redbox is $1.50, and you can get unlimited movies for $10 on Netflix. For every three to four movies you watch, you will have saved enough to watch a wrestling tournament.
Haha. but you can't get a "new" movie rental for less than that. Redbox is delayed by a month or more and Netflix even longer if it ever gets on there. I do have Netflix. I rarely rent movies, but figured that was a reasonable starting point.
As far as other recruits....
Haven't seen anything for Joe Lee floating around
Adam Busiello took a loss up at 120 in a NY/NJ exhibition. Was having a knee issue. Hope he is doing alright. Ryan Howard, the kid he beat in the Super 32 final, has destroyed his way to the 113 pound Beast semi. Another kid in his Super 32 bracket, Vasquez, made the Ironman final.
And sure, let's include S. Nevills. Pinned his way through a tough Zinkin tournament.
Haven't seen anything for Joe Lee floating around
Adam Busiello took a loss up at 120 in a NY/NJ exhibition. Was having a knee issue. Hope he is doing alright. Ryan Howard, the kid he beat in the Super 32 final, has destroyed his way to the 113 pound Beast semi. Another kid in his Super 32 bracket, Vasquez, made the Ironman final.
And sure, let's include S. Nevills. Pinned his way through a tough Zinkin tournament.
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I'm not one to spend other people's $$$ so each has their own threshold and must make their own decisions.
For me, I just spent $17 to see the premier of Rogue One so spending $10 to watch my favorite team in a two day tournament doesn't seem out of wack at all. Seems very cheap for real-time action, actually.
For me, I just spent $17 to see the premier of Rogue One so spending $10 to watch my favorite team in a two day tournament doesn't seem out of wack at all. Seems very cheap for real-time action, actually.
This whole discussion is out of wack. If you don't want the product don't buy it. Complaining about the cost of track or flo on this board makes NO sense. If you want to complain about their pricing complain to track or flo. That could at least be productive whereas complaining here does NOTHING.
Where should I go to complain about the weather?
Any where you want. However, I can guarantee you it won't make any difference.
I pay $5 to get into the local hs dual meet. $10 for a two day tourney is not unwarranted. You have zero travel costs. Travel an hour or two to a big tourney.....pay gas, ticket cost, food, etc.....you're gonna be into it for an easy $50-75 bucks. The cheapness of some wrestling 'fans' amazes me
I watched that Grapple at the Garden exhibition match and my only thought was that Busiello should not have been wrestling. He did not look anywhere close to 100%, more like 50-60%.
As an aside, that NY/NJ all-star match is probably one of the highlights of the whole G@G event. Lots of talent going at it.
As a value, G@G is pretty good. $20 per ticket at MSG for a lot of wrestling.
I feel ya, Nova, but the discussion is not just about complaints. It's about pricing models for services offered and also about the Wrestling Community's consumer habits. And for those two subjects, this board is a great place to have the discussions. You're not really gonna get a great convo going on Flo or Track about how Flo or Track price their stuff.
This isn't the first time I've heard JB's take that the wrestling community is tight with its disposable income money, and every time I do, I try to rethink it with myself as the case study. Which usually begins at the starting line that we're live here in the beginning of the Information Age. And a lot of information is free. Any coin I'm considering throwing at some non-free service is set against that backdrop: that most of what I'm looking for is already free.
On another hand (warning: I may have multiple hands in this exploration), I'm definitely down with the spirit of #Grow #Wrestling. So yes, I want to support it and no, I don't want to rip it off. I'm certain I wouldn't be the guy in JB's example sneaking in a side door to avoid paying the $5-$10 at the door. I love supporting local teams with my disposable income.
But in exchange for value. Wrestling's a hobby of mine, but I don't view it as a Charity. I save the free donation budget of my disposable income for services that solve bigger problems in the world than whether a wrestling program can afford a 5th scholarship or not. Charity Water's my favorite, because of their stellar software that lets you see exactly where your donated money goes, and because of their donation model that has big-money donors giving to pay the overhead, so plebes like me can watch 100% of my donation go to a new water well.
So those are my backdrops. Boiled down, it's just supply & demand. Business fundamentals. I got a lot of value out of watching that Berge - Allara final, that Track apparently released for free. But I didn't have the time to watch 10-12 hours of that HS tourney, so I wasn't a prime customer for Track's $10 charge. Partly because of time, and partly b/c I knew there'd be a decent chance that same provider would give away for free the one piece of content I'm most interested in. Is their business model backward? Is the post-tourney release of free content supposed to draw more people in to their next event? Where's the marketing to me, to draw me in? Isn't that the job of businesses that sell content? Convince me the consumer to part with my money?
There's a quality issue that still exists as well. Probably all tied to the youth of the Info Age, really. Broadband speeds and availability. Maturity of streaming video technology. Experience of software developers who can write product that loads quickly. Every season, I boot up both Flo & Track--and I swear to you I do with hope and a positive attitude--to see what improvements they've made. How hard is it to find info I'm looking for? How long does it take to load in my browsers? What does their UX feel like these days?
My time isn't unlimited, but I'm a pretty good candidate to sell wrestling content to. I just think the burden is on the provider to be more clever with ways to convince me. It's their job to change up the landscape, so that I'm more likely to consider purchase of their service in terms of buying one more beer at the pub. It's the Seller's job to change the spending habits of the Buyer. That's Marketing.
Shaming me by calling me cheap doesn't really get my credit card out.
...and I thought PSU"s public address speaker was too much all over the microphone. This guy did not shut up for the entire 1 minute plus clip of the fall.
I'd disagree with JB if he indeed makes an indictment about the wrestling community being cheap. I've seen it time and time again where fans are helping by getting wrestlers to the Olympics (through things such as go find me accounts), getting kids to wrestling matches (through projects such as wrestling for life), helping start up programs and clubs with equipment and the list goes on and on. Actually, what impressed me most after joining these boards was the outpouring of support from the fans. including them opening up their wallets for causes.
jto, you missed my point completely. All of what you mention makes for great discussion and is interesting, but discussing it here doesn't actually accomplish anything and your last sentence proves my point. I haven't seen anyone from flo or track here calling you or anyone else cheap. I expect the effect of this message board on flo or track's business plans is so miniscule that it can't even be measured. Makes for interesting discussion, but my point is for those complaining about the cost, WHY are you complaining here instead of to flo and or to track?
Nova,
I have to disagree with you. The HR gets a ton of wrestling foot traffic as does this board as well as the FOS site. How long can this board carry on a FLO conversation before it is noticed by Willie or Vais, ie FLO.
Somebody from Track is most certainly reading themat, BWI, FOS, HR as well as others. There are enough points of view spread across numerous wrestling message boards to give Track or Flo interesting feedback.
I have to disagree with you. The HR gets a ton of wrestling foot traffic as does this board as well as the FOS site. How long can this board carry on a FLO conversation before it is noticed by Willie or Vais, ie FLO.
Somebody from Track is most certainly reading themat, BWI, FOS, HR as well as others. There are enough points of view spread across numerous wrestling message boards to give Track or Flo interesting feedback.
In my experience companies tend to be more proactive about general complaints made in public (especially on Twitter) than general complaints made directly to them. Better companies meticulously collect user complaints / praise across the major social media platforms on a weekly/monthly basis. No idea what Track's practices are but they'd be wise to monitor heavily trafficked (here, HR, Mat) message board reactions. I tend to think they don't, though, because otherwise they'd have modified that time-out feature by now (that doesn't even go away for paying customers) hated by everyone.
SHP or JB can confirm or dispell but I'm told that TO feature is present in their revenue model.
