Breaking from Pennlive Curley and Shultz plead guilty.

[LaJolla Lion]

My thoughts would be the same as my post was generic regarding why plea deals are ever offered or accepted.
I don't know what C or S did or did not do exactly. The evidence I read long ago seemed to indicate that they kept telling more ppl and reported the unknown thing MM might have heard to the necessary ppl. After 4 yrs, they might have thrown in the towel on a misdemeanor charge, than face a jury....Or they might be scumbags...IDK. my gut tells me they got railroaded, or perhaps there is a technicality in the reporting law and how they handled that makes their chances at trial a crap shoot, and they took a bird in the hand.

I'm not saying that isn't a possibility because it certainly is. I just think their lawyers had all of the evidence in hand so if the state really didn't have anything I don't think they would advise them to take a deal unless they really felt it was still somewhat gray. If GS flips now because these two already have, I would think there is more dirt there and nobody wants it out for whatever reason. Again these are just opinions....nothing more than that. Something certainly isn't adding up after 6 years and to take the deal now looks pretty fishy to me. I don't think this deal just became available in the last month, so why now?

 

[Zenophile]

Sandusky didn't "work" for TSM. He was on the Board; he was one of the people that ran it.

Not a "punt." Gricar exercised prosecutorial discretion, which he could do, which was done in Altoona-Johnstown Diocese case and the Bill Cosby case. He not to prosecute if Sandusky "received help with the problem."

Who did he tell that to? Raykovitz, who had no supervision of Sandusky, and didn't have any resources to get him this "help?" Unlikely. Someone at PSU, that did have supervision of him, had the resources, and whose police department was investigating? Much more likely.

From where did Jerry Sandusky source his victims?

 

[colt21]

Sandusky didn't "work" for TSM. He was on the Board; he was one of the people that ran it.

Not a "punt." Gricar exercised prosecutorial discretion, which he could do, which was done in Altoona-Johnstown Diocese case and the Bill Cosby case. He not to prosecute if Sandusky "received help with the problem."

Who did he tell that to? Raykovitz, who had no supervision of Sandusky, and didn't have any resources to get him this "help?" Unlikely. Someone at PSU, that did have supervision of him, had the resources, and whose police department was investigating? Much more likely.

STD
JS did show up on the TSM Form 990s with a paycheck - how do you determine he "didn't work for them"

JR did absolutely have "supervision" responsibility of him

???

 

[BobPSU92]

Please take this opportunity to use the Ignore List.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Please take this opportunity to use the Ignore List.

Please don't be open to discussion, just stick your finger in your ears and be outraged not everyone thinks like you do.

 

[AWS1022]

How in the freakin World does this "remove a scarlet letter"????? It just perpetuates it into Eternity. What Planet do you live on.

Go to the Pitt Board and tell them our "scarlet letter" is removed. Let me know what their reponse is.

Jesus could come back and say PSU did nothing wrong and Pitt fans would say he was spinning it. Come on, Pitt? Really?

 

[BUFFALO LION]

No, but the OAG does.

I never said that CSS influenced Gricar. I don't know who suggested what.

I will be happy to post a copy of it here, if it is not a violation of TOS.

If you can send me an e-mail by PM, I will be happy to forward you a copy.



No, not trumped up. Prosecutors are often willing to drop/lower charges against an underling to get the head guy. Originally, Spanier wasn't charged, so they were not going after him.

My guess is that they will testify that that they told Spanier in 2001, and possibly 1998, that Sandusky was a pedophile an that, in 2001, that this wasn't horseplay.

Are you talking about Sloane's unsolicited message? I already know about that, and you are either intentionally misinterpreting it, or know nothing about the pressure on Gricar from above.

And the problem with your "horseplay/horsing around" argument is that that is the term that Schultz and Curley were throwing around to everyone. All Spanier has to do is call in Garban and ask him how Schultz explained it to him.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Jesus could come back and say PSU did nothing wrong and Pitt fans would say he was spinning it. Come on, Pitt? Really?

Only at BWI can Pitt be brought up in a thread about the scandal.

The hardon for Pitt is every bit as rigid for many posters here as the hardon for PSU is on the Lair.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

I'm not saying that isn't a possibility because it certainly is. I just think their lawyers had all of the evidence in hand so if the state really didn't have anything I don't think they would advise them to take a deal unless they really felt it was still somewhat gray. If GS flips now because these two already have, I would think there is more dirt there and nobody wants it out for whatever reason. Again these are just opinions....nothing more than that. Something certainly isn't adding up after 6 years and to take the deal now looks pretty fishy to me. I don't think this deal just became available in the last month, so why now?

I think Spanier takes this the distance.

After going back over some of the info we have, including the Security Clearance, there's no question in my mind that Corbett masterminded this whole thing. These guys were all framed in retaliation for the Budget situation.

Spanier was the head of the Public Higher Education snake in Pennsylvania, and Corbett had to kill it. Corbett was a Private Education advocate, and literally hated everything Penn State and Public Education stood for. All the other Public Education Administrators in Pennsylvania looked up to Spanier as their leader and spokesman. If Corbett could kill Penn State, he would shut the rest of them all the f-(k up.

They have nothing on Spanier unless practically everyone that ever talked to Spanier has been coerced into perjuring themselves. This thing will go to trial unless the State caves.

 

[Obliviax]

i recall CSS lost a court battle to withhold some evidence, emails and whatnot, last week. The court ruled that they could become public. It occurred to me that this may be what convinced CS to plea out. In cases I've been involved in, once you get "discovery" you will find something. It could be porn, or a family matter, intimate emails to a coworker (or other) and so on. They can be very damaging even if not related. My guess is that there was something in there that CS didn't want people to see. It may be the "smoking gun" but I doubt the prosecution drops their pants to a minor misdemeanor if it was substantive to the case.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I think Spanier takes this the distance.

After going back over some of the info we have, including the Security Clearance, there's no question in my mind that Corbett masterminded this whole thing. These guys were all framed in retaliation for the Budget situation.

Spanier was the head of the Public Higher Education snake in Pennsylvania, and Corbett had to kill it. Corbett was a Private Education advocate, and literally hated everything Penn State and Public Education stood for. All the other Public Education Administrators in Pennsylvania looked up to Spanier as their leader and spokesman. If Corbett could kill Penn State, he would shut the rest of them all the f-(k up.

They have nothing on Spanier unless practically everyone that ever talked to Spanier has been coerced into perjuring themselves. This thing will go to trial unless the State caves.

It's one thing to have a disagreement over a budget but, it's another to maliciously try and ruin someones life over it. I'm not buying any of that right now to be honest without any real proof and if GS does take it trial...it will be very interesting to see what Tim and Schultz have to say about this whole thing. You could be dead on right and Corbett was that petty and ruthless...I have nothing to say you're wrong about it. I just happen to see that a ton of people passed the buck on Jerry for years and somehow PSU took the brunt of it. Other people and agencies simply wiped their hands clean and walked away somehow. I'm kind of over the whole major conspiracy theory now as I tend to think TC and GS will testify at Spanier's trial and kicking the can at the state or anyone else will run out of steam.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

i recall CSS lost a court battle to withhold some evidence, emails and whatnot, last week. The court ruled that they could become public. It occurred to me that this may be what convinced CS to plea out. In cases I've been involved in, once you get "discovery" you will find something. It could be porn, or a family matter, intimate emails to a coworker (or other) and so on. They can be very damaging even if not related. My guess is that there was something in there that CS didn't want people to see. It may be the "smoking gun" but I doubt the prosecution drops their pants to a minor misdemeanor if it was substantive to the case.

I think it has more to do with their pensions. Why take the risk at their ages? They were charged with a misdemeanor.

 

[Obliviax]

I think it has more to do with their pensions. Why take the risk at their ages? They were charged with a misdemeanor.

perhaps all of the above. Frank Sheeran got it right in his cryptic post. CS were probably convinced that the state will never go away and let them live normal lives. They are both in their 70s so how much more time do they have? And the damage to their families..... At some point, like Chinese Water Torture, you've got to throw in the towel.

 

[Judge Smails]

 

[BUFFALO LION]

It's one thing to have a disagreement over a budget but, it's another to maliciously try and ruin someones life over it. I'm not buying any of that right now to be honest without any real proof and if GS does take it trial...it will be very interesting to see what Tim and Schultz have to say about this whole thing. You could be dead on right and Corbett was that petty and ruthless...I have nothing to say you're wrong about it. I just happen to see that a ton of people passed the buck on Jerry for years and somehow PSU took the brunt of it. Other people and agencies simply wiped their hands clean and walked away somehow. I'm kind of over the whole major conspiracy theory now as I tend to think TC and GS will testify at Spanier's trial and kicking the can at the state or anyone else will run out of steam.

What will they say? They would literally have to perjure themselves all over again. And admit they lied in a Federal Security Clearance.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

What will they say? They would literally have to perjure themselves all over again. And admit they lied in a Federal Security Clearance.

...unless they have been granted immunity...

 

[BUFFALO LION]

...unless they have been granted immunity...

From the Feds?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

What will they say? They would literally have to perjure themselves all over again. And admit they lied in a Federal Security Clearance.

We'll just have to find out what they say. Do you think they will take the stand for the state or for the defense? I tend to think after taking the plea that they aren't going to be on the witness list for the defense. The defense will get a shot to shoot holes in their testimony for sure if that does occur. I'm not even sure that happens as obli made a good point above...something happened where they finally saw the writing on the wall. It won't surprise me if GS simply folds now too, but we'll see. I'm not buying they simply folded now due to the fear of the jury alone...but people can run with that. We really don't know that for sure yet and there still could be some trying to save face at this point in time.

 

[baircub1!]

We'll just have to find out what they say. Do you think they will take the stand for the state or for the defense? I tend to think after taking the plea that they aren't going to be on the witness list for the defense. The defense will get a shot to shoot holes in their testimony for sure if that does occur. I'm not even sure that happens as obli made a good point above...something happened where they finally saw the writing on the wall. It won't surprise me if GS simply folds now too, but we'll see. I'm not buying they simply folded now due to the fear of the jury alone...but people can run with that. We really don't know that for sure yet and their still could be some trying to save face at this point in time.

Someone mentioned "protecting their pensions" as a possible reason for taking the plea deal and wanting to move on with their lives......of course I assume their pension would be protected...legally...if they were to admit to a specific crime committed while they were PSU employees?

Can the employer ( PSU) take away or penalize their pension if a criminal act is committed ?

Curious...?

 

[BUFFALO LION]

We'll just have to find out what they say. Do you think they will take the stand for the state or for the defense? I tend to think after taking the plea that they aren't going to be on the witness list for the defense. The defense will get a shot to shoot holes in their testimony for sure if that does occur. I'm not even sure that happens as obli made a good point above...something happened where they finally saw the writing on the wall. It won't surprise me if GS simply folds now too, but we'll see. I'm not buying they simply folded now due to the fear of the jury alone...but people can run with that. We really don't know that for sure yet and their still could be some trying to save face at this point in time.

I'm pretty convinced Spanier won't fold at this point. His case is WAY too strong.

And I'm pretty convinced the State won't be the ones calling Curley and Schultz to the stand. Spanier's Attorneys would literally destroy them.

 

[Obliviax]

Someone mentioned "protecting their pensions" as a possible reason for taking the plea deal and wanting to move on with their lives......of course I assume their pension would be protected...legally...if they were to admit to a specific crime committed while they were PSU employees?

Can the employer ( PSU) take away or penalize their pension if a criminal act is committed ?

Curious...?

There may be a factor in them taking a misdemeanor instead of a felony. Or, PSU could also be in on the agreement. We'll never know. I am 100% sure that there are very strict non-disclosure agreements with teeth.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'm pretty convinced Spanier won't fold at this point. His case is WAY too strong.

And I'm pretty convinced the State won't be the ones calling Curley and Schultz to the stand. Spanier's Attorneys would literally destroy them.

Yeah...I'm not buying that to be honest. Too much smoke was blown from these guys camp about never taking a plea and boom...it happened. Since we don't know what the state really has or what they might say...I have no reason to believe Spanier's attorney's would destroy them. Actually I starting to think the opposite, but it's nothing more than a hunch.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Yeah...I'm not buying that to be honest. Too much smoke was blown from these guys camp about never taking a plea and boom...it happened. Since we don't know what the state really has or what they might say...I have no reason to believe Spanier's attorney's would destroy them. Actually I starting to think the opposite, but it's nothing more than a hunch.

There's too much previous documentation where Curley and Schultz only ever relayed to Spanier that Sandusky was "horsing around" with a kid. They never relayed to Spanier the kid's age, specifically said in response to Spanier's direct questions that there was nothing else involved BUT "horseplay", and never even gave Spanier McQueary's name. Heck, in 2001, Spanier thought the Second Mile was a charity for high school kids, not 11 year olds.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. McQueary used the term Horseplay or horsing around in his follow up meeting with Curley and Schultz according to them, and Garban says that Schultz told him horseplay.

What will be interesting is if Spanier's attorneys start to call people like "swimsuit" Raykovitz and "Don't tell anyone" Bruce Heim.

 

[baircub1!]

There's too much previous documentation where Curley and Schultz only ever relayed to Spanier that Sandusky was "horsing around" with a kid. They never relayed to Spanier the kid's age, specifically said in response to Spanier's direct questions that there was nothing else involved BUT "horseplay", and never even gave Spanier McQueary's name. Heck, in 2001, Spanier thought the Second Mile was a charity for high school kids, not 11 year olds.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. McQueary used the term Horseplay or horsing around in his follow up meeting with Curley and Schultz according to them, and Garban says that Schultz told him horseplay.

What will be interesting is if Spanier's attorneys start to call people like "swimsuit" Raykovitz and "Don't tell anyone" Bruce Heim.

IF Spanier takes this all the way...I think they call everyone...wonder if that even includes Baldwin?

 

[towny87.1]

I'm pretty convinced Spanier won't fold at this point. His case is WAY too strong.

And I'm pretty convinced the State won't be the ones calling Curley and Schultz to the stand. Spanier's Attorneys would literally destroy them.

check back in next week after tim and gary testify and "his case is WAY too strong" will seem even sillier than it does this morning.

 

[Obliviax]

IF Spanier takes this all the way...I think they call everyone...wonder if that even includes Baldwin?

Baldwin won't be able to testify. Defense will object and refer to superior court rulings that she was under client attorney privilege.

 

[Chris92]

What will be interesting is if Spanier's attorneys start to call people like "swimsuit" Raykovitz and "Don't tell anyone" Bruce Heim.

Wouldn't shock me if those two and/or Kitty are on the witness list for the prosecution.

 

[getmyjive11]

I think Spanier takes this the distance.

After going back over some of the info we have, including the Security Clearance, there's no question in my mind that Corbett masterminded this whole thing. These guys were all framed in retaliation for the Budget situation.

Spanier was the head of the Public Higher Education snake in Pennsylvania, and Corbett had to kill it. Corbett was a Private Education advocate, and literally hated everything Penn State and Public Education stood for. All the other Public Education Administrators in Pennsylvania looked up to Spanier as their leader and spokesman. If Corbett could kill Penn State, he would shut the rest of them all the f-(k up.

They have nothing on Spanier unless practically everyone that ever talked to Spanier has been coerced into perjuring themselves. This thing will go to trial unless the State caves.

Yeah, because Corbett made them not report the incident back in 2001.

 

[nits74]

perhaps all of the above. Frank Sheeran got it right in his cryptic post. CS were probably convinced that the state will never go away and let them live normal lives. They are both in their 70s so how much more time do they have? And the damage to their families..... At some point, like Chinese Water Torture, you've got to throw in the towel.

Yeah, after a while you just throw up your hands and cut losses. That said, I hope Spanier goes the distance with this. Of course, he may be thinking his lawsuit against Freeh is dependent on him being exonerated.

 

[Zenophile]

Yeah, because Corbett made them not report the incident back in 2001.

Who made Raykovitz not report it in 2001?

 

[Zenophile]

The case was at least partly resolved today, so that I did verify that I am J. J. in Phila.

I have also indicated, I do have information that Gricar decided not to prosecute Sandusky, if Sandusky "received help with problem." Gricar told someone that and it would have had to be someone at PSU. I turned it over to LE in August of 2012.

I will be happy to email you a copy. And, if it doesn't violate TOS, I will post it.



Something along those lines.

I've been here long enough to know that 1) no rule prevents posting and 2) you're stalling.

Why are you stalling, JJ? Is it because you've purposely misrepresented what Sloane's message actually said?

 

[baircub1!]

check back in next week after tim and gary testify and "his case is WAY too strong" will seem even sillier than it does this morning.

He would have had a chance...as well as Tim and Gary...if this case was tried outside Pa...

I don't live in the State...but sans Louisiana ( New Orleans specifically) I don't think there is a more corrupt region in the Country.

Something to be very proud of...

5.5 years later...Ladies and Gentlemen...we have a winner...a misdemeanor...not let collect that $10,000 fine...LOL...

 

[Bob78]

I'm not saying that isn't a possibility because it certainly is. I just think their lawyers had all of the evidence in hand so if the state really didn't have anything I don't think they would advise them to take a deal unless they really felt it was still somewhat gray. If GS flips now because these two already have, I would think there is more dirt there and nobody wants it out for whatever reason. Again these are just opinions....nothing more than that. Something certainly isn't adding up after 6 years and to take the deal now looks pretty fishy to me. I don't think this deal just became available in the last month, so why now?

(ChiTown and Wen can add clarity and the link, perhaps)....

Their attorneys surveyed people from 3 different counties regarding their opinions of punishment for C&S regardless of their innocence or guilt. Half or more of those surveyed thought they should be punished or deserved something adverse regardless of the verdict. I think that survey told them that getting an impartial jury and a fair verdict was going to be a huge hurdle to overcome. That very well may have contributed significantly to the plea deal regardless of the evidence.

 

[nits74]

Who made Raykovitz not report it in 2001?

And a question for towny while he's basking in delight: What made MM not report it in 2001? There is the one who should have been charged more than any other. Instead he walks away with millions.

 

[ApexLion]

I'm not saying that isn't a possibility because it certainly is. I just think their lawyers had all of the evidence in hand so if the state really didn't have anything I don't think they would advise them to take a deal unless they really felt it was still somewhat gray. If GS flips now because these two already have, I would think there is more dirt there and nobody wants it out for whatever reason. Again these are just opinions....nothing more than that. Something certainly isn't adding up after 6 years and to take the deal now looks pretty fishy to me. I don't think this deal just became available in the last month, so why now?

I think we need to hear from those involved or the lawyers because there are questions such as:

Will C & S actually provide info on Spanier?
Will C & S testify against Spanier?

Why accept a deal now?
- Did last week's ruling motivate the decision to take a deal?
- Did they reserve the right to an appeal?
- Are their lawyers preparing an appeal?
- Are their lawyers awaiting a decision in the Lyn case that may in fact further define endangerment?
- Did they reserve the right to "tell all" by agreeing to a misdemeanor and the state doesn't care?

Does the state have more on C&S&S or just the two that accepted the deal?

Anybody else find the judge's/media's note about sentencing odd? As if to purposely say what exactly?

Whenever a deal happens, there's alot of questions. In this particular case, we probably have a dozen more questions.

 

[AldenT]

check back in next week after tim and gary testify and "his case is WAY too strong" will seem even sillier than it does this morning.

Next week Mike McQuery will still be a pathetic coward, regardless of what happens to the administrators.

 

[canuckhal]

I think we need to hear from those involved or the lawyers because there are questions such as:

Will C & S actually provide info on Spanier?
Will C & S testify against Spanier?

Why accept a deal now?
- Did last week's ruling motivate the decision to take a deal?
- Did they reserve the right to an appeal?
- Are their lawyers preparing an appeal?
- Are their lawyers awaiting a decision in the Lyn case that may in fact further define endangerment?
- Did they reserve the right to "tell all" by agreeing to a misdemeanor and the state doesn't care?

Does the state have more on C&S&S or just the two that accepted the deal?

Anybody else find the judge's/media's note about sentencing odd? As if to purposely say what exactly?

Whenever a deal happens, there's alot of questions. In this particular case, we probably have a dozen more questions.

Wendy stated in another thread that Spanier was offered the same deal and turned it down. Ziegler on twitter said CS took the deal with no jail time. Rather than all the speculation and questions, more will be revealed soon.

 

[Hotshoe]

A misdemeanor, and especially no trial. A plea that was told of on Sunday before a Monday announcement. I believe that says a lot right there.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

(ChiTown and Wen can add clarity and the link, perhaps)....

Their attorneys surveyed people from 3 different counties regarding their opinions of punishment for C&S regardless of their innocence or guilt. Half or more of those surveyed thought they should be punished or deserved something adverse regardless of the verdict. I think that survey told them that getting an impartial jury and a fair verdict was going to be a huge hurdle to overcome. That very well may have contributed significantly to the plea deal regardless of the evidence.

Again, the defense team saying that they can't get a fair trial isn't exactly earth shattering to be honest. As I said it's certainly possible, but I also look at some of those driving that train and simply raise an eyebrow. I'm not saying they are lying, but I may want to see what else does come out before I say it is the only reason or the biggest one. People know how to spin a message as we all have seen.

 

[Zenophile]

(ChiTown and Wen can add clarity and the link, perhaps)....

Their attorneys surveyed people from 3 different counties regarding their opinions of punishment for C&S regardless of their innocence or guilt. Half or more of those surveyed thought they should be punished or deserved something adverse regardless of the verdict. I think that survey told them that getting an impartial jury and a fair verdict was going to be a huge hurdle to overcome. That very well may have contributed significantly to the plea deal regardless of the evidence.