I don’t think the level of disinterest is solely Franklin though I think a lot of it is the dumpster fire that CFB has become.
Consider how bad the QB recruiting & coaching has been
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He went to a coach and a program that didn’t have a choice….which is why he went there.
Again, CJF is my hero. He's become independently wealthy doing something that the expert analysts here claim he has no talent for.
Levis threw 102 passes and had 133 rushing attempts....so it's not like he never saw the field.
Les Miles is also tremendously wealthy. Tom Herman is wealthy. Dan Mullen is wealthy.
They're all better than 99.9% of human beings in coaching football. They also lag behind their most relevant competition within their conferences.
And that is exactly where CJF sits. He's pretty much our Les Miles -- without the national title appearances, that is. Perhaps a poor man's John Cooper. Also a wealthy man who couldn't win the games that truly mattered.
Yep, Levis seemed to have his chances to pass at PSU but never showed he touch and accuracy necessary to complete drives given the sorry state of the PSU Oline and running game and that time.... which has continued through this past season at PSU.
And I watched a few of UK's games last season and Levis didn't show much more accuracy that he had shown at PSU. Maybe a light went on at the end of last season for Levis and his film looks much better but from what I saw he is still more of a big athlete playing QB than he is top NFL QB prospect.
At this point I would take Veilleux as my starting QB over either Levis or Clifford. In one game Veilleux showed more accuracy and poise as a passer than either of the other two.......
I'm not saying that he never saw the field, but that amount of playing time sure didn't prepare him to be a potential first round pick!
Maybe we have to face the possible reality that PSU, considering it is located in the middle of a declining Rust Belt state in which the overall quality of high school football has declined tremendously in the last decade, probably is finished being able to compete for national championships, regardless of who the coach is. Maybe PSU now is in the category of an Iowa: a solid, unspectacular program that in most seasons is capable of winning 8 or 9 games a season and maybe playing in a Big 10 Championship game once every ten years if absolutely everything aligns perfectly. Add these factors to the fact that PSU appears to be totally behind the NIL phenomenon, or maybe just is unable to compete with many other schools at the same level; i.e., Texas A&M, Ohio State.
That's a fair point, and there's a good argument to make for why we'll never catch OSU. But I see no reason why PSU can't achieve what Michigan achieved last year. Similar states, similar recruiting bases, similar historical stature, etc.
We'll always have what Iowa will not have: the ability to recruit nationally. Franklin is recruiting at a high level and has consistently pulled in solid recruits from outside our area. We were an exceptionally talented team last year for going 7-6. We were an exceptionally talented team in 2020 for being 4-5. We were more talented in 2018 than our 4 losses indicate. We are pulling in NFL talent. Not at OSU's level -- but then, that's rarely going to happen.
Franklin isn't recruiting at a level to win natties. But he's recruiting better than what the on-field results are showing.
Nor did playing at Kentucky!
First of all potential is just that. Who is the prognosticator? Someone the ilk of Corey Geiger.
Skills are demonstrated on game day....they are developed in practice.
3 different offensive coordinators, Franklin and the rest of the offensive staff evaluated Clifford and Levis for 3 years and thousands of hours of practice.....they consistently chose Clifford.
But, "we" know better. Makes perfect sense to me.
Look at the bright side.....you have 10 more years to spend time here criticizing him. I wouldn't mind being Dan Mullen, Tom Herman or Les Miles come pay day. I am amused that we can read endless posts here and elsewhere taking shots at guys that got to the top of their chosen professions (holding a P5 HC job), became wealthy doing it, but are defined somehow as "failures." We should all be such failures.
Why cant Penn State perform as well as Ohio State year in and year out? Pennsylvania and Ohio are similar states with similar demographics and economies. Depending on what media publication you look at, Ohio State is ranked higher than Penn State in academics. Pennsylvania and Ohio have similar high school football programs with similar athletes, and the weather is similar in both states.
As mentioned above, Franklin is recruiting better than his Win/Loss record indicates. Why are Franklin's recruiting classes better than his Win/Loss records, and why is Franklin putting players into the NFL better than his Win/Loss records? Maybe the problem is Franklin's management of the program and getting the most out of his coaching staff and his players during their 3/4/5 years with the program.
Bizarre argument. The worst player in professional sports is still wealthier than most people on here. Doesn't mean that player stacks up favorably to his competition.
If the argument is that James Franklin is a failure in life, that's a bad argument.
If the argument is that James Franklin is struggling to live up to his salary and prestige as the HC of an historically-top-10 football program.........well, hard to argue.
Right?
Or did I imagine that whole 9-game losing streak against top-10 teams. Or the 11-11 record over the past two years. Or the 17 losses in the past 4 years.
It might appear that the team is at least getting good coaching on the d-line from Scott. This snippet from AtlantaFalcons.com regarding Ebiketie...
"
Ebiketie came to Temple at 210 pounds. He was light, but in the 2020 season, Doyle said you saw the athlete. But when Ebiketie transferred to Penn State, that's when things really picked up for the edge rusher.
"They did a really good job of developing him from the technical aspects of playing the game," Doyle explained. "You see that jump, but he also continued to gain weight, continued to get stronger.""
"
Ebiketie came to Temple at 210 pounds. He was light, but in the 2020 season, Doyle said you saw the athlete. But when Ebiketie transferred to Penn State, that's when things really picked up for the edge rusher.
"They did a really good job of developing him from the technical aspects of playing the game," Doyle explained. "You see that jump, but he also continued to gain weight, continued to get stronger.""
James Franklin is struggling only in the minds of people like those who post here.
Again, the decision makers who matter, have given him a 10 year contract......I assume because they like how he "struggles." LOL
If you are going to say something positive about a coach at PSU, you won't be welcome here!
We deserve better!
Between 2016-19 I saw the "struggling" coach win 42 games and I attended the Rose, Fiesta, Cotton and Citrus Bowl. Did I imagine that?
So is it that Franklin just got lucky or did he go to sleep in 2020 and forget how to coach?
I get it.....the old fanboy..."what have you done for me lately?"
I went to my first game at Beaver in '66 and I watched Joe build PSU into a "historic top 10 program."
I also witnessed our loyal fans turn on him between 2000-04. We always deserve better.
I'll say this. On James Franklin, you have many folks in Columbus and Ann Arbor who enthusiastically support your position.
But of course, they're just fanboys, too. Just lucky enough to be on the same internet as luminaries like you
Edit: you know Les Miles started out pretty hot, too, right? Momentum is a helluva thing.
Edit Edit: In fairness to Les, he never lost 6 games in a season at LSU.......or 10+ in a two year period. So perhaps he's not the best example.
I congratulate you on your kinship with folks in Ann Arbor and Columbus. You are a good fit.I'll say this. On James Franklin, you have many folks in Columbus and Ann Arbor who enthusiastically support your position.
But of course, they're just fanboys, too. Just lucky enough to be on the same internet as luminaries like you
Edit: you know Les Miles started out pretty hot, too, right? Momentum is a helluva thing.
Edit Edit: In fairness to Les, he never lost 6 games in a season at LSU.......or 10+ in a two year period. So perhaps he's not the best example.
I think you should spend your entire summer and fall convincing your buddy Grandpa Mick that Julian should transfer to Penn State after the 2022 season. I've read some reports recently that Julian is once again being impacted by injury woes that analysts close to the program may be starting to form the opinion that Julian's window of opportunity is closing.
Is your obsession with Julian or Mick? Either way, it's a bit creepy.
I'll leave it to you to stay "close" to anal ysts and report back to us.
Never said he got much playing time. On the other hand, it wasn't like he did nothing but carry a clipboard while at Penn State.
The O line has been a problem since about 1995QB and OL have been dumpster fires as of late.
Regarding QB, we have to understand that 2020 was a mess due to COVID. That the B1G shut down the season, everyone went home, PA forbade any social interaction including sex and PSU was screwed when the B1G decided to have a season after all. Then in the 2021 season, we apparently did not have a backup QB. The result was that we wouldn't run SC for fear of him getting hurt and the defenses adjusted. Then, he DID get hurt and our backup QB couldn't successfully execute a snap from scrimmage (the xfered out). Then, for whatever reason, the staff wouldn't play anyone except the injured and run-challenged SC for almost the entire year.
If we have a decent OL, which has been a systemic problem for over a decade, SC will play well. And if we can develop one of the second teamers so SC can run the ball in the RPO (so the defenses actually have to cover that option) we'll be much better.
PA and the B1G in August/Sept of 2020
If you go back, he played a lot toward the end of 2020's season. Most of it was when we were trying to protect a lead late in the game. We didn't want to throw the ball and had almost no running game. So we put Levis in and ran RPO after RPO. I recall him carrying 3, 4, 5 times in a row in certain games where we were trying to ball-control, move the sticks.
I just looked it up. SC had 99 carries for 482 yards in 2020. Levis had 82 carries for 308 yards (many were short yardage situations).
Contrast that to passing where SC had 251 attempts for a 60.6 completion percentage and 1,883 yards (7.5 YPA)
Will Levis had..............................................55 attempts for a 60 completion percentage and 421 yards (7.7 YPA)
I believe the fact that OSU is in a major city does have an effect, especially now with NIL.
They are definitely doing well in NIL.....at least in the sense that players who excel are getting big deals. CJ Stroud is reportedly set to make $2 million in deals.
More importantly, though, they have elite assistants and position coaches with proven records of getting kids to the NFL draft -- to include the 1st round. Brian Hartline is assembling probably the best WR recruiting run in recent history, and develops the hell out of their kids. LJ is the GOAT on the D-line. Ryan Day is a master at developing QBs. They have secondary coaches who are proven at the NFL level or elite developers at the college level. And so on. Recruits take notice of all that.
It's all about winning and coaching. We were on the cusp with our 2018-19 recruiting classes which were neck-and-neck with OSU. And then we crapped ourselves on the field. We aren't developing the QB position. We aren't developing the OL position. And while we're recruiting well......not well enough to compensate for coaching deficiencies.
Suffice it to say, whatever OSU is doing is working. Also, I know that they have lost kids in the transfer portal like Burrow, but it seems as if they do a good job of keeping a lot of their best players for a long time, like Olave. And it also seems as if more of their backups are content to ride it out in the hope that they eventually will find playing time. Also, it seems as if there is a pride of being a Buckeye, which I sense is beginning to be lost at PSU. Finally, and I admire this, it seems as if OSU doesn't make a pretense of holding themselves out as anything but a football factory.
And if Kentucky had a third year starter back who won 11 games in his sophomore year, Kentucky would have had only one choice as well (hint, it wouldn’t have been Levis).
my concern is those top classes seem to be full of wide receivers, backs and secondary personnel. We don’t recruit that highly on the OL and DL. Good classes but addressing needs??
I think you make good points. But PS has had a history of riding the horse till it dies, and not just with Franklin. We often do not give our back ups much quality time, and that has hurt us historically. However, we will now have multi year starter back for another season. If these hot shot kids come in and end up not getting playing time, or leaving for greener pastures, we shouldn't have any complaints about the kids!
I still have sour taste in my mouth when Joe would not play the backup even when the starter was hurt. I sure don't see Villeaux getting any starts with Sean coming back if Sean, being hurt is still our best option. Or if the staff felt Villeaux was not better than the kid we brought in when SC went down against Iowa.
"the general interest in Penn State's football program has diminished over the last couple of years"
How do you explain in 2021 having the 2nd highest average attendance in college football, which is Penn State's highest average attendance since 2009?
Next 4-5 years will decide where James nets out. He has the QB, has his OC and DC. Needs to show he can build a good O-Line (although he has had plenty of time to do fix the O-Line already and has failed). If he can get us into the playoff at least once and NY6 games the other years then he very well may shed the under performer label. If the beat goes on that we saw in '20 and '21 then he won't last through the 10 years.
I doubt most coaches will "last" with this new trend in long term deals. If they have 4-5-6 years of success, some school will buy them out and give them even more money.
If they are not meeting expectations boosters will buy them out at some point. Franklin's contract ensures that he gets his money one way or the other. So unless there is a wealthy individual who can eat 7M+ x the # of years left, HCJF will be at the controls for awhile.
All good points.
An OSU insider put in a Futurecast for Tyseer Denmark to OSU last night. Top-50 2024 recruit per On3 -- top WR in PA. But if we go head-to-head with Brian Hartline for a WR recruit, we're probably going to lose. Regardless of where the kid is from.
That just speaks to the influence of having elite assistant coaches.
It’s called mismanagement of a player and a high profile position. Franklin and Coach Kirk never trusted the kid and were so afraid of losing more games in the CoVid year. Then a new OC arrives and says your my #2 without even working him out and it’s see ya!
Franklin’s roster management over the last two years is a big red flag. Now we got an issue at LB... at penn state we don’t have LBs. Don’t tell me they’ve been schemed out. You need top notch LBs in today’s CFB and PSU doesn’t have them. This will be a huge topic of discussion in October when the B1G schedule kicks in. Mark it down just like the QB issue we all saw a year ago but then hit in October.
PSU is really no different than any other school. If any school had a third year starter coming back who won 11 games as a sophomore and then had the screwed up Covid season, the coach would have had him #1 on the depth chart (no matter who the coach is). The first string QB’s who lose their starting spots almost always start the season off as QB1….unfortunately our QB2 didn’t stick around to compete for the job. And I watch a lot of college football and I never see any coach who plays their backup QB unless the game is a blow out. No coach is out there bringing backup QB’s into games all season long just to get them quality snaps and it’s unreasonable to expect our coach to do it just in case.
