COVID gratuitous dumpster fire thread
- Thread starter El-Jefe
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Information about Covid disinformation from last year:
khn.org
www.theatlantic.com
And This year:
www.vanityfair.com
www.npr.org
Recent polling shows that partisanship is now this single strongest identifying predictor of whether someone is vaccinated. Polling also shows that mistrust in official sources of information and exposure to misinformation, about both COVID-19 and the vaccines, run high among Republicans.
"An unvaccinated person is three times as likely to lean Republican as they are to lean Democrat," says Liz Hamel, vice president of public opinion and survey research at the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonpartisan health policy think tank that tracks attitudes toward vaccination. Political affiliation is now the strongest indicator of whether someone is vaccinated, she says: "If I wanted to guess if somebody was vaccinated or not and I could only know one thing about them, I would probably ask what their party affiliation is."
And many, many more reliable sources could be easily produced to show that one party and it's supporters is spreading dangerous misinformation
Lie of the Year: The Downplay and Denial of the Coronavirus - KFF Health News
It's no worse than the flu, and other deadly disinformation about the coronavirus
khn.org
All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus
An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency
And This year:
Right-Wing Vaccine Lies Are Tearing the Country Apart
The Biden administration is stepping up the fight against vaccine misinformation as GOP officials and conservative media outlets stoke fears and a geographical divide grows.
Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame
An analysis by NPR shows that since the vaccine rollout, counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump have had more than twice the COVID mortality rates of those that voted for Joe Biden.
www.npr.org
Recent polling shows that partisanship is now this single strongest identifying predictor of whether someone is vaccinated. Polling also shows that mistrust in official sources of information and exposure to misinformation, about both COVID-19 and the vaccines, run high among Republicans.
"An unvaccinated person is three times as likely to lean Republican as they are to lean Democrat," says Liz Hamel, vice president of public opinion and survey research at the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonpartisan health policy think tank that tracks attitudes toward vaccination. Political affiliation is now the strongest indicator of whether someone is vaccinated, she says: "If I wanted to guess if somebody was vaccinated or not and I could only know one thing about them, I would probably ask what their party affiliation is."
And many, many more reliable sources could be easily produced to show that one party and it's supporters is spreading dangerous misinformation
No problem. Everyone has done it and will likely do it again.
Wrestling on Monday can't get here soon enough!
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I may be the biggest libertarian on this board when it comes to personal choice and the Vax, but I believe this Comarity conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
The formulation for the Pfizer-BioNTech shot and Pfizer Comarity are one and the same. Once Pfizer gained approval they created the brand name Comarity, granted millions upon millions of doses of the vaccine continue to circulate and get dispensed under the original BioNTech name.
I have no issue with folks questioning the potential long term side effects of any mRNA vaccine as in reality it will be years before we gain hard data, but there are not two vaccines out there from Pfizer using two different populations as test beds.
I get the sense we are on the verge of somebody changing somebody else’s opinion on this!
I do find the debate interesting. This thread hasn't changed my mind but my personal experience and researching the data has. As @crablegs1 alluded too, the data (specifically from Israel because the USA has fumbled the ball on covid tracking) has shown that while the covid shots don't always prevent you from getting infected, they do lessen the symptoms. I'm not for mandatory vaccinations but I do think it's beneficial to get it.
And @dmm53 and @Sportfan2017 , don't take this personally. You are both great contributors to this board when talking wrestling. Here's the however part. @El-Jefe is correct on this one. Covid got politicized by the Democrats. Biden called out Trump as a racist for restricting travel to/from China. Nancy Pelosi was encouraging people to go to Chinatown. Mayor Asshat in New York was promoting movie attendance. Kamala Harris said she wouldn't get the vaccine because, Trump. Cuomo was sending the elderly to their deaths and covering it up while also having the nerve to write a book about how awesome he was while playing grabass with every woman within his reach. I'm no Trump fan but there are no clean hands when it comes to politics and covid.
It seems you left out a few things:
We have it completely under control
It is no worse than the Flu
Stop the testing....this is making me look bad
Superspreader events by Trump......virtually mask-free....took down signs insisting on distancing..ask Herman Cain.
Interfered with the Health Dept. dispersal of PPE....personally ordering supplies to go to states that support him.
Ignored local and National Health Guidelines at every rally. while Biden and Democrats wore masks and social distanced. You can say both sides politicized the virus but please be clear.......One side Politicized the downplaying and/or outright dismissing of the virus throughout and often still do. Ask Trumps own appointed Health Officials
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Everyone in this thread needs common ground. Our federal government is, and has been for many years, incompetent. You’re welcome.
Incompetent, corrupt and pathological liars on both sides.
Amen. Got Covid over a year ago. Supreme health status. Got the vaccine, got Delta. Won't get a booster. My doc, who is world renowned, said my system needed a break. I had shingles 3 months ago and now getting over bronchitis. The vaccine keeps you from hopefully dying. Other than that, it's not stopping this virus. Every virus runs its course and always has. Everyone spreads the virus, vaxed or not. Everyone has been wrong regarding this virus. America has been a lying, political, and colossal F up when it comes to natural immunity and censorship. Both parties, media, and social media should be ashamed. They are an absolute disgrace.
I agree with you and I don't. They are basically the same product, however for legal reasons Pfizer is not selling Comarity in the USA. A US Federal judge stated that they are distinctly different products in a court ruling. They are distinct because they have different legal shields. BioTech is legally protected from any liability, Comarity is not. Comarity will come with a different package insert (legalese).
Last year numerous prominent Democratic party politicians stated they would not getting any vaccine that Trump developed. This year those same politicians are ordering people to get the vaccine on threat of job termination. Can't have it both ways.
A couple of democrats? Those democrats are Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the President and Vice President of the USA. I could buy a couple of Democrats if they were Reps from rural areas of the midwest and nobody knew who they were.
Biden, Harris distrusted Trump, not COVID-19 vaccines
President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris have been pushing Americans to get inoculated against COVID-19. But
www.politifact.com
You could buy them from anywhere. Politicians are for sale all the time.
but I did, Look up the DANGER OF HIGH RISK OF THOSE VERY HEALTHY BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18-22 AND COMPARE TO THE RISK OF THE VACCINE--- And list multiple sources...and then coalesce those sources alphabetically in terms of right and left wing. then google, duck duck go them and take what you find and ask the 4/5 doctors who said Second hand smoke is fine and then ask the children of thalidomide. After doing that go to
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...gest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
and read about Pfizers 2.3 billion dollar settlement for lying about BEXTRA the then take your results and shove them........somewhere....then RINCE AND REPEAT
What in the world is this? Is the vaccine effective at preventing severe outcomes? I don’t see anything in either of your posts about this question.but I did, Look up the DANGER OF HIGH RISK OF THOSE VERY HEALTHY BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18-22 AND COMPARE TO THE RISK OF THE VACCINE--- And list multiple sources...and then coalesce those sources alphabetically in terms of right and left wing. then google, duck duck go them and take what you find and ask the 4/5 doctors who said Second hand smoke is fine and then ask the children of thalidomide. After doing that go to
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...gest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
and read about Pfizers 2.3 billion dollar settlement for lying about BEXTRA the then take your results and shove them........somewhere....then RINCE AND REPEAT
ok, Ill do to you, what you are trying to do to me...show me specific DATA that shows a highly healthy athletic 18-22 year old is safer taking the vaccine? NOT ALL 18-22 year olds---ONLY ATHLETES THAT ARE 18-22 year olds... I will wait?
Very simple, Vaccines don't prevent you from getting a disease, they prevent you from getting a severe outcome when you get the disease. Also lets do away with all the Donald Trump did a horrible job crap. Anyone who is familiar with science knows that Operation Warp Speed developed a vaccine at an incredible time period. And by the way , more people have died of COVID under President Biden.
What I’m trying to do to you? Your ability to follow a conversation is next level.
What's important is that lying about it sows doubt and convinces more people to not get vaccinated. For some reason RW media thinks it's in their best interest for their viewers to die from a preventable illness.
HERE WAS THE CONVERSATION VERBATEM
LYONS 212 said "Stop telling me to get a vaccination that does not work to make you feel better. The experts are saying that it does not prevent you from getting or spreading Covid, it should protect you from severe outcomes (that is debatable too)."
YOU SAID-- "I’d be interested in learning more about this debate if you could share."
I SAID-- "
Maybe the "Debate" is about 18-23 years olds (and Kem) who are very high health athletes and how forcing them to take the vaccine actually helps them from a severe covid outcome? or if the Vaccine posses a bigger threat to that Demographic?
All I know is when my right Knee swelled up to twice its size after the second Pfizer shot, and I went to the ER without having injured it or any history of knee Issues. The receptionist, Nurse, and Doctor all were very short and annoyed with me that I would even bring up that maybe it was an adverse reaction to the Vaccine. I mean it Can't be, According to the "Experts" , They may be right, but how am I supposed to trust the reports on side effects when I know for a Fact, my potential one was dismissed and never reported and I was scolded for the Question?
thankfully after they removed the liquid and 2 months of very swollen and annoying knee issues it went away and hopefully I will live the rest of my life without Knee problems as I did before that incident? The Side effect itself is not nearly as big an issue to me as the Obvious disregard that the vaccine may be the reason?
Just my Personal Experience? It made it political to me much more after than before that visit?"
YOU SAID---"I asked a very specific question about the claim that there is debate over the vaccine effectiveness at preventing severe outcomes. If you don’t have information in response to my question, why respond to my question to go on a diatribe about something else?"
I SAID "
but I did, Look up the DANGER OF HIGH RISK OF THOSE VERY HEALTHY BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18-22 AND COMPARE TO THE RISK OF THE VACCINE--- And list multiple sources...and then coalesce those sources alphabetically in terms of right and left wing. then google, duck duck go them and take what you find and ask the 4/5 doctors who said Second hand smoke is fine and then ask the children of thalidomide. After doing that go to
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...gest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
and read about Pfizers 2.3 billion dollar settlement for lying about BEXTRA the then take your results and shove them........somewhere....then RINCE AND REPEAT"
YOU SAID "What in the world is this? Is the vaccine effective at preventing severe outcomes? I don’t see anything in either of your posts about this question."
I SAID "ok, Ill do to you, what you are trying to do to me...show me specific DATA that shows a highly healthy athletic 18-22 year old is safer taking the vaccine? NOT ALL 18-22 year olds---ONLY ATHLETES THAT ARE 18-22 year olds... I will wait?"
You SAID "What I’m trying to do to you? Your ability to follow a conversation is next level."
What exactly did I not follow? i was Being a Smartass because you were stating OPINION AS FACT!!!!!!!!!!
So you’re admitting you changed the subject. I asked about the debate Lyons mentioned. Then you turned it to 18-23 year olds for some reason. Again, my question was on a specific topic mentioned by Lyons. Then you have completely ignored that topic in all of your nonsense posts.HERE WAS THE CONVERSATION VERBATEM
LYONS 212 said "Stop telling me to get a vaccination that does not work to make you feel better. The experts are saying that it does not prevent you from getting or spreading Covid, it should protect you from severe outcomes (that is debatable too)."
YOU SAID-- "I’d be interested in learning more about this debate if you could share."
I SAID-- "
Maybe the "Debate" is about 18-23 years olds (and Kem) who are very high health athletes and how forcing them to take the vaccine actually helps them from a severe covid outcome? or if the Vaccine posses a bigger threat to that Demographic?
All I know is when my right Knee swelled up to twice its size after the second Pfizer shot, and I went to the ER without having injured it or any history of knee Issues. The receptionist, Nurse, and Doctor all were very short and annoyed with me that I would even bring up that maybe it was an adverse reaction to the Vaccine. I mean it Can't be, According to the "Experts" , They may be right, but how am I supposed to trust the reports on side effects when I know for a Fact, my potential one was dismissed and never reported and I was scolded for the Question?
thankfully after they removed the liquid and 2 months of very swollen and annoying knee issues it went away and hopefully I will live the rest of my life without Knee problems as I did before that incident? The Side effect itself is not nearly as big an issue to me as the Obvious disregard that the vaccine may be the reason?
Just my Personal Experience? It made it political to me much more after than before that visit?"
YOU SAID---"I asked a very specific question about the claim that there is debate over the vaccine effectiveness at preventing severe outcomes. If you don’t have information in response to my question, why respond to my question to go on a diatribe about something else?"
I SAID "
but I did, Look up the DANGER OF HIGH RISK OF THOSE VERY HEALTHY BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18-22 AND COMPARE TO THE RISK OF THE VACCINE--- And list multiple sources...and then coalesce those sources alphabetically in terms of right and left wing. then google, duck duck go them and take what you find and ask the 4/5 doctors who said Second hand smoke is fine and then ask the children of thalidomide. After doing that go to
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...gest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
and read about Pfizers 2.3 billion dollar settlement for lying about BEXTRA the then take your results and shove them........somewhere....then RINCE AND REPEAT"
YOU SAID "What in the world is this? Is the vaccine effective at preventing severe outcomes? I don’t see anything in either of your posts about this question."
I SAID "ok, Ill do to you, what you are trying to do to me...show me specific DATA that shows a highly healthy athletic 18-22 year old is safer taking the vaccine? NOT ALL 18-22 year olds---ONLY ATHLETES THAT ARE 18-22 year olds... I will wait?"
You SAID "What I’m trying to do to you? Your ability to follow a conversation is next level."
What exactly did I not follow? i was Being a Smartass because you were stating OPINION AS FACT!!!!!!!!!!
I never changed the subject, I inferred what Lyon212 may have been refereeing to?? and then you ignored that and ran off the cliff?? I may be wrong LYON 212 may not have meant that...but when a bunch of HIGHLY HEALTHY ATHLETES WANT TO MAKE THEIR OWN HEALTH DECISIONS AND THIS IS THE CENTER OF REFERERENCE....maybe, just maybe I have a point?
Lyon specifically said that the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing severe outcomes is up for debate. I’m not interested in engaging with whatever you’re talking about, but I am interested if Lyon can show anything to back up this debate he brought up.
Trump developed a vaccine? On the golf course? They said they would not trust anything that was reccommended by Trump........Disinfectants, UV light etc...it had to be approved by Health Officials. It was approved. They took it. The end. Highly inaccurate statement from you.
Because you quote replied me. So, I was trying to see if you actually had a response to my question or not.
Vaccine effectiveness data from UK's latest report, see table 1 page 12.
Here is the Delta period unboosted effectiveness numbers for Pfizer, you can see the other vaccines they use in the table.
75-85% effectiveness against infection,
80-90% Symptomatic disease,
95-99% Hospitalization,
90-99% for death.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...41593/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-50.pdf
Here is the Delta period unboosted effectiveness numbers for Pfizer, you can see the other vaccines they use in the table.
75-85% effectiveness against infection,
80-90% Symptomatic disease,
95-99% Hospitalization,
90-99% for death.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...41593/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-50.pdf
There are so many falsehoods in your post but claiming that the vaccines protecting you from serious outcomes "Is Debatable" is complete nonsense. Almost every hospital report showed that 90-95% of all recent hospitalizations and ICU admissions were for unvaccinated patients. To claim that 90-10 or 95-5% is debatable? Yeah...I guess you can "Debate it" but certainly not successfully with any statistician, scientist or serious medical authority.
There is no material distinction between publicly downplaying the development of the vaccine under Trump or downplaying the vaccine. None. Unless, if course, you're politically blinded.Biden, Harris distrusted Trump, not COVID-19 vaccines
President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris have been pushing Americans to get inoculated against COVID-19. But
Look at data from the UK or Denmark, they both have excellent data. The US data is intentionally garbage.
A huge issue in the data is the fact that you are not considered vaccinated until two weeks after your second shot, that is 6 weeks. The booster is 2 weeks. Where is the data on people in this situation?
My local newspaper had a story about the hospital being overwhelmed. Spokeswoman saying that they are seeing both vaccinated and unvaccinated in the hospital and the vaccinated all have underlying medical conditions. I bet the hospitalized unvaccinated have underlying medical condition.
The data in the UK is showing no significant correlation between vaccination status and Covid outcome. Israel is going to go to a fourth Pfizer shot and is one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world.
If you believe the unvaccinated are causing mutations that are infecting the vaccinated then you just acknowledged that the vaccine is a failure. You cannot 100% vaccinate everyone. So people you cannot find, so people have legitimate medical reasons where they cannot get the vaccination. Also animals are a host for the virus too. Your cat can give you Covid.
corona viruses mutate, which makes them a bad candidate for a vaccine.
if you are jabbed you are protected. That is your choice.
Everyone should do their own research and form their own opinion. Research a variety of sources and do not accept government officials, newspapers and the news broadcast as gospel. Maybe they are right, or not.
I am dubious of the government officials who benefit finically from their opinions, I.e. Fauci.
Could you share this UK data? I’m not familiar with UK data sources and this would be a surprising finding.
Everyone is wrapped up in the politics whether you admit it or not. I treat my health the same way I treat my betting habits in Vegas. I always look for the best odds. If you think the odds are truly in your favor by being un-vaxxed, have at it. You may be right if you are young and healthy. And I don't think anyone should be shamed for making that decision. Those that are older or compromised and not vaxxed should be shamed for putting our health care workers and system at risk.
One of my best buddies will lose his dad in the next few days. He was a stubborn old coot that said he made it through the last 80 years without getting bullshit shots. Now he is in the hospital on morphine because he's drowning in his bed. All he says to his son is "I'm sorry, I made a mistake". This is an 82 year old guy that rode 10,000 miles/year on his bike and mowed his 4 acre yard with a push mower. Old tough wrestler. He is soon to be an tough old dead wrestler because he admittedly made a mistake based on political propaganda.
It is just sad and wasteful on so many levels.
One of my best buddies will lose his dad in the next few days. He was a stubborn old coot that said he made it through the last 80 years without getting bullshit shots. Now he is in the hospital on morphine because he's drowning in his bed. All he says to his son is "I'm sorry, I made a mistake". This is an 82 year old guy that rode 10,000 miles/year on his bike and mowed his 4 acre yard with a push mower. Old tough wrestler. He is soon to be an tough old dead wrestler because he admittedly made a mistake based on political propaganda.
It is just sad and wasteful on so many levels.
the distinction was entirely that they would trust the medical experts once the testing data had been analyzed rather than taking the word of a known liar actively on a political campaign. if you don't think that's material, then yes i agree, you might be suffering from political blindness.
the problem with this thinking is that with covid your 'betting' impacts other people. a better metaphor would be if you had 2 options: a) -825 or b) -800 but if you lose then someone else lose their life savings
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