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COVID gratuitous dumpster fire thread

No opinions are needed here, if you are aware of the actual vaccine effectiveness data then you would realize that you are misinformed and shouldn't rely on sample data set of six.
Oh, so those 6 don't fit the mold, so they don't count? Im very much aware of the data, don't insult my intelligence. Answer these questions for me if you are so bought into the so called vaccine effectiveness data. How do they actually know that people get less sick when vaccinated vs unvaccinated, when they weren't sick before they were vaccinated? They don't. How do they know that the vaccine actually prevents death? They don't. People react to the virus differently based on age, physical conditions and blood types, they may have died with or without the vaccine, they may have been sicker with or without the vaccine. There's no prior data to back up the claims. I have family members who are vaccinated and got extremely sick, and I have family members who were not vaccinated that were only slightly sick. I respect your opinion and kindly agree to disagree.
 
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Oh, so those 6 don't fit the mold, so they don't count? Im very much aware of the data, don't insult my intelligence. Answer these questions for me if you are so bought into the so called vaccine effectiveness data. How do they actually know that people get less sick when vaccinated vs unvaccinated, when they weren't sick before they were vaccinated? They don't. How do they know that the vaccine actually prevents death? They don't. People react to the virus differently based on age, physical conditions and blood types, they may have died with or without the vaccine, they may have been sicker with or without the vaccine. There's no prior data to back up the claims. I have family members who are vaccinated and got extremely sick, and I have family members who were not vaccinated that were only slightly sick. I respect your opinion and kindly agree to disagree.

Are effing kidding me with that nonsense, your intelligence needs to be insulted. Do you understand the concept of statistical analysis? If on average 8 people out of 10 that are hospitalized or are dying are not vaccinated that's a pretty obvious indicator. Now apply that to a sample set of about 400k dead and a few million hospitalizations, if you don't understand those basics, then you really aren't aware of the data and wouldn't be asking such irrelevant questions.
 
I’m all for a new hospital policy: if you’ve chosen not to be vaccinated and you don’t have a legitimate medical reason underlying this choice, then you will not be admitted inpatient for care. Outpatient treatment only. Beds cannot be taken up by idiots who take their medical advice from Joe Rogan, when the severity of their illness is largely their own doing. Treat them outpatient with their preferred BS “treatments” like Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. See how that works out. My sympathy barometer for these dullards is officially at zero. Let the Darwin rule take effect.
 
Treat them outpatient with their preferred BS “treatments” like Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. See how that works out.
If I had gotten any sicker that would of been my choice. Outpatient would be preferred. There is a shrimp that has a hammer blow for offense and I suspect defence. I wonder how it evolved. Like some humans...
 
I’m all for a new hospital policy: if you’ve chosen not to be vaccinated and you don’t have a legitimate medical reason underlying this choice, then you will not be admitted inpatient for care. Outpatient treatment only. Beds cannot be taken up by idiots who take their medical advice from Joe Rogan, when the severity of their illness is largely their own doing. Treat them outpatient with their preferred BS “treatments” like Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. See how that works out. My sympathy barometer for these dullards is officially at zero. Let the Darwin rule take effect.
Great, Now show the same energy for Illegal Aliens, Uninsured, Obese ETC

i am sure You are Totally Fine with what you say as long as YOU get to pick the group that will be treated differently. I am also sure you think what you said is logical. Your Brilliance is Blinding

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Great, Now show the same energy for Illegal Aliens, Uninsured, Obese ETC

i am sure You are Totally Fine with what you say as long as YOU get to pick the group that will be treated differently. I am also sure you think what you said is logical. Your Brilliance is Blinding

giphy.gif
Apples and oranges. Very weak attempt at deflection. Try harder.
 
I believe the benefits of the flu vaccine are higher than the covid vaccine. The flu vaccine has proven to be effective in preventing infection, obviously depending upon which variant shows up in a given year. The covid vaccine does not prevent infection. I personally know many people who chose to get the vaccine, got covid, and got very sick, and some sadly passed away, and they were fully vaxxed, whatever that means now. In my opinion, the covid vaccine is useless. I have God given natural antibodies that are working just fine.
You do however there are a lot of grandparents walking around who don't or others with medical issues. Whatever happened to the common good is it really just about me now lol. Wtf with the self centered bullshit in our country
 
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… Wtf with the self centered bullshit in our country
The actual answer is that some people have decided to activate the “you can’t make me” circuitry and “don’t take away what’s mine” circuitry inside people’s brains, using radio and cable TV and Internet. That circuitry, when activated, apparently can be stronger than a dormant “e pluribus unum” circuitry.

If it weren’t vaccines, it would be something else that had been fine for decades or centuries but now suddenly is an assault on our freedoms. It could have been, “what do you mean I can’t urinate on sidewalks?” Anything at all.
 
… Wtf with the self centered bullshit in our country
There was a cooperation-game study that I read about, among many such studies. The organizers went to different cities of the world and gathered random-ish strangers together to play the game to win small amounts of real money. The cities I remember reading about included multiple Scandinavian cities and Boston, which had people naturally choosing to cooperate with one another, causing everyone to do better (gain more real money). The other end of the spectrum included Athens, Riyadh, and a city in Oman, in which cities people generally refused to cooperate and as a result everyone did worse (gained less real money).

What the cult leaders of the “you can’t make me” cult are doing to the US is they are making us more like the unproductive and unhappy “third world” countries of the world. What an unaccomplishment!
 
I’m all for a new hospital policy: if you’ve chosen not to be vaccinated and you don’t have a legitimate medical reason underlying this choice, then you will not be admitted inpatient for care. Outpatient treatment only. Beds cannot be taken up by idiots who take their medical advice from Joe Rogan,

That thinking is a whisker away from refusing to treat the obese because they eat too much, some type 2 diabetics because they drink too many sodas, lung cancer and emphysema patients because their poor choice is a financial/medical drain on society, and the list goes on.... Each one of those 'dullard' classes needs you as their nanny. Totalitarianism usually is cloaked in compassion with one group knowing what is best for everyone else, and then forcing it down their throat.

You should be very happy in NY city, where you can't buy a large soda, you must have Vaxs just to go places, masks and all the other things the few know with conviction what is best for everyone. I think you should move their and get a taste. Its also why the population is growing by leaps and bounds. They love paying through the nose for protection and having all the hard choices made for them.
 
I’m all for a new hospital policy: if you’ve chosen not to be vaccinated and you don’t have a legitimate medical reason underlying this choice, then you will not be admitted inpatient for care. Outpatient treatment only. Beds cannot be taken up by idiots who take their medical advice from Joe Rogan, when the severity of their illness is largely their own doing. Treat them outpatient with their preferred BS “treatments” like Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. See how that works out. My sympathy barometer for these dullards is officially at zero. Let the Darwin rule take effect.
Your views are extreme.
 
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That thinking is a whisker away from refusing to treat the obese because they eat too much, some type 2 diabetics because they drink too many sodas, lung cancer and emphysema patients because their poor choice is a financial/medical drain on society, and the list goes on.... Each one of those 'dullard' classes needs you as their nanny. Totalitarianism usually is cloaked in compassion with one group knowing what is best for everyone else, and then forcing it down their throat.

You should be very happy in NY city, where you can't buy a large soda, you must have Vaxs just to go places, masks and all the other things the few know with conviction what is best for everyone. I think you should move their and get a taste. Its also why the population is growing by leaps and bounds. They love paying through the nose for protection and having all the hard choices made for them.
Again, irrelevant comparison. False equivalencies may only work for the stupid.
 
Irrelevant deflections don't "win" an argument.
It isn't a deflection. What other groups of people would you be willing not to treat because they don't fit your narrative? What is your definition of being vaccinated?. One shot, two shots, three shots. We should know so we know who gets a bed and who doesn't. How about people that don't get the flu shot? Can they have a bed? How about young, FAT, vaccinated people. They probably brought this on themselves for not being physically fit. Why do they deserve to get a bed?
 
The whole “refuse hospital care” argument is a bridge way too far. I’m 100% pro vaxx, but treating those that fail to take a preventive measure ( a vaccine) worse than those that take active measures to harm their health (tobacco use), or active measures to harm themselves and others (drunk drivers) borders on obscene.
 
Bottom line America was founded on concepts of the common good and the importance of the community. If history teaches us anything it's that self centered ideologies will never allow this country to grow the way it's supposed to. We are pluralistic like it or not. We should applaud diversity not condemn it to the point we have to select one of two sides. I choose community. I'm involved and want the best for my community. I respect anyone's decision not to get vaxxed as long as it doesn't effect those around you in a negative way. If me getting the vax can help save others than I'm all for it which is why I got it
 
Bottom line America was founded on concepts of the common good and the importance of the community. If history teaches us anything it's that self centered ideologies will never allow this country to grow the way it's supposed to. We are pluralistic like it or not. We should applaud diversity not condemn it to the point we have to select one of two sides. I choose community. I'm involved and want the best for my community. I respect anyone's decision not to get vaxxed as long as it doesn't effect those around you in a negative way. If me getting the vax can help save others than I'm all for it which is why I got it
The problem is that those choosing not to get vaccinated are absolutely “affecting those around you in a negative way”. They’re prolonging the pandemic by increasing variant formation and negatively impacting the quality of life for everyone. If their choice was affecting only them, that’s one thing, but it’s not. It’s affecting everyone and I’m done with selfishness masquerading as libertarianism.
 
The problem is that those choosing not to get vaccinated are absolutely “affecting those around you in a negative way”. They’re prolonging the pandemic by increasing variant formation and negatively impacting the quality of life for everyone. If their choice was affecting only them, that’s one thing, but it’s not. It’s affecting everyone and I’m done with selfishness masquerading as libertarianism.
So the people getting infected that are vaccinated aren't increasing variant formation?

And just to add my personal perspective. Every single person that I know that has had covid in the last month is vaccinated. Every single one of them! Wife, mother in-law, 4 coworkers, and a neighbor. All vaccinated, all got covid.
 
So the people getting infected that are vaccinated aren't increasing variant formation?
Not at the same rate. No. Because the vaccine mainly works to prevent the seriousness of the illness but it does have some protection against contracting it as well.

 
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… Every single person that I know that has had covid in the last month is vaccinated. Every single one of them! …
Uh. Maybe that means most people who are close enough to you to tell you that they had COVID are vaccinated? (or claim to have been vaccinated)

At the vegetarian restaurant, most people I asked were vegetarians!
 
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Not at the same rate. No. Because the vaccine mainly works to prevent the seriousness of the illness but it does have some protection against contracting it as well.

June 7? That's eons ago with regards to this virus, and particularly the variants.

Also, the virus has now been found in deer, cats, dogs, lions, tigers and minks. It's going to be around for a while. For that matter, we're 100% sure it came from an animal to begin with.
 
You do however there are a lot of grandparents walking around who don't or others with medical issues. Whatever happened to the common good is it really just about me now lol. Wtf with the self centered bullshit in our country
I agree with you, however, it's not about me. We all have a different view of the whole covid issue and the vaccine, and I respect yours. I respect everyone's opinion, and I was just expressing mine, but got blasted by a couple certain people for it, which I should have expected, and is why I have rarely posted here in my 20 years as a member. To your point, I truly don't understand why they are basically dismissing natural immunity. My doctor initially discussed the whole herd immunity theory, which many citizens now have contracted covid, and natural immunity is a large part of that, but now they practically ignore and dismiss it. I personally have not seen any viable research or studies that prove the vaccination prevents you from spreading covid, let alone contracting it. There are so many mixed messages, different views and studies supporting and debunking the same issues, its hard to know what to believe anymore. I wish we could all just get along and discuss things rationally without blasting each other, and that goes for me too.
 
I agree with you, however, it's not about me. We all have a different view of the whole covid issue and the vaccine, and I respect yours. I respect everyone's opinion, and I was just expressing mine, but got blasted by a couple certain people for it, which I should have expected, and is why I have rarely posted here in my 20 years as a member. To your point, I truly don't understand why they are basically dismissing natural immunity. My doctor initially discussed the whole herd immunity theory, which many citizens now have contracted covid, and natural immunity is a large part of that, but now they practically ignore and dismiss it. I personally have not seen any viable research or studies that prove the vaccination prevents you from spreading covid, let alone contracting it. There are so many mixed messages, different views and studies supporting and debunking the same issues, its hard to know what to believe anymore. I wish we could all just get along and discuss things rationally without blasting each other, and that goes for me too.

It seems to be getting clearer and clearer that 'herd immunity' is an illusion. Even the traditional definition of immunity is being twisted into a pretzel to fit the narrative. In this context covid is very similar to the flu.

Immunity now means your immune system has been prepped to mount a response to the virus which should lessen the symptoms and offer some protection whether it be from a vaccine or natural immunity. Regardless of the mechanism, none appear to be long lasting or effective against all of the endless parade of future variants are now and we will face in the future.

Clearly there is no real 'immunity' in the context of a Measels or Polio or other pathogens where vaccines offer true life long immunity.

It seems even natural immunity does not protect long term against reinfection, or all new variants. Many many people have had CV multiple times, sometimes the latter infections are more severe.

There were a handful of virologists who understood the nature of Covid viruses in general that were stating this back as early as March of 2020, only to be rapidly excommunicated. I suspect Faucci knew this all along as well despite his championing the herd immunity message.

Anyone who continues to talk about herd immunity today is either misinformed or disingenuous, probably to drive the 100% vax narrative.

Sadly even without mandates at the very least a mandatory 'newly designed' annual vaccine/booster will be here to stay, even without bringing therapudics into the discussion.
 
It seems to be getting clearer and clearer that 'herd immunity' is an illusion. Even the traditional definition of immunity is being twisted into a pretzel to fit the narrative. In this context covid is very similar to the flu.

Immunity now means your immune system has been prepped to mount a response to the virus which should lessen the symptoms and offer some protection whether it be from a vaccine or natural immunity. Regardless of the mechanism, none appear to be long lasting or effective against all of the endless parade of future variants are now and we will face in the future.

Clearly there is no real 'immunity' in the context of a Measels or Polio or other pathogens where vaccines offer true life long immunity.

It seems even natural immunity does not protect long term against reinfection, or all new variants. Many many people have had CV multiple times, sometimes the latter infections are more severe.

There were a handful of virologists who understood the nature of Covid viruses in general that were stating this back as early as March of 2020, only to be rapidly excommunicated. I suspect Faucci knew this all along as well despite his championing the herd immunity message.

Anyone who continues to talk about herd immunity today is either misinformed or disingenuous, probably to drive the 100% vax narrative.

Sadly even without mandates at the very least a mandatory 'newly designed' annual vaccine/booster will be here to stay, even without bringing therapudics into the discussion.
Interesting....I had covid 1 year ago at Christmas, didn't get very sick at all, but lost taste and smell. I just had my antibodies tested a few weeks ago at my yearly physical and the doctor was really surprised, said my antibodies were really high, even a year later. I agree with your thoughts, this virus is here to stay just like the flu, its not going away.
 
I know I shouldn't reply with my thoughts but, I have read too many of others opinion not too. I work in a hospital setting and get called to intubate Covid patients most shifts. By the time I see these patients their chances of recovering as slim. Some do, most don't. Intubating them is a last ditch effort. 70% of these patients are unvaccinated. A guesstimate of 95% of them have comorbidities (obese, HTN, DM, Smokers). Of the 30% vaccinated that deteriorate until they need my help 99% have comorbidities, usually pretty severe. 1% are vaccinated and healthy as a horse, they just have bad luck. Every time I go into a room to intubate someone I am putting my self at risk. That bothers me slightly, what bothers me a great deal is that I am putting everyone in the room, as well as my family at risk. I am vaccinated, my family is vaccinated, but there is still a risk that I bring it home. From there grandparents, great grandparents and so on. It was very scary at first when we understood even less. Today, it isn't as scary but still a risk. At the beginning, I showered and changed my clothes after every contact. Today I shower before I leave the hospital. So that is my story, here is my gripe. I don't care for the government telling us what to do. "I love going to a bar and not smelling smoke, I hate that the government has told the private business owner what he/she can and can't do in his own place." I respect people opinions not to get vaccinated, I don't think the government should force people to do it. I am always open to hear someones opinion for not getting vaccinated. Some people have good reason, some not so much. I just listen, I may judge, but no reason to try to change someones mind. Now the cynical part. The nurses in those Covid units are tired, they are scared, they hurt and cry every time someone they have worked so hard to help has to be intubated. They see it as the beginning of the end, most times they are right. I am tired of putting my self and my family at risk. Get a new job people say, stop doing it they say. We are already understaffed, and my colleagues are already over worked, it isn't in my blood not to help, however detrimental it may be to myself or my family. This is the carrier I chose for my life and these are the cards we have right now. I don't think those 70% of unvaccinated people understand the strain they are putting on health care workers. I do not think they thought it could happen to them. It is hard to keep the thought of unvaccinated people being selfish out of your head. In my mind, if the reason you aren't getting vaccinated is worth dying for, I admire your resolute. If the reason isn't worth dying for, you should rethink your reasoning. If you simply think you are too tough to get Covid, then you are tough enough to get vaccinated. No one should make that decision for you. I don't want anyone to need my skill set, I don't want anyone mandated by the government to do something they don't want to do. For Pete's sake if we could just knock down the amount of admissions into the hospital, those that did need admitted would get better care and hopefully a better prognosis. My apologies for the diarrhea of the mouth. College wrestling, specifically PSU wrestling is my happy place these days.
 
Interesting....I had covid 1 year ago at Christmas, didn't get very sick at all, but lost taste and smell. I just had my antibodies tested a few weeks ago at my yearly physical and the doctor was really surprised, said my antibodies were really high, even a year later. I agree with your thoughts, this virus is here to stay just like the flu, its not going away.
Last week, my youngest son, my wife and I all came down with it. Son and I vaxxed, wife vaxxed and boosted. The one who didn't get it? My oldest son who had covid in Dec 2020 (100% asymptomatic) and was vaxxed in May-ish.
 
So the people getting infected that are vaccinated aren't increasing variant formation?

And just to add my personal perspective. Every single person that I know that has had covid in the last month is vaccinated. Every single one of them! Wife, mother in-law, 4 coworkers, and a neighbor. All vaccinated, all got covid.
Not the same argument if I get the vaccine at least I'm trying to decrease variant formation. People refusing vaccines aren't even trying
 
I know I shouldn't reply with my thoughts but, I have read too many of others opinion not too. I work in a hospital setting and get called to intubate Covid patients most shifts. By the time I see these patients their chances of recovering as slim. Some do, most don't. Intubating them is a last ditch effort. 70% of these patients are unvaccinated. A guesstimate of 95% of them have comorbidities (obese, HTN, DM, Smokers). Of the 30% vaccinated that deteriorate until they need my help 99% have comorbidities, usually pretty severe. 1% are vaccinated and healthy as a horse, they just have bad luck. Every time I go into a room to intubate someone I am putting my self at risk. That bothers me slightly, what bothers me a great deal is that I am putting everyone in the room, as well as my family at risk. I am vaccinated, my family is vaccinated, but there is still a risk that I bring it home. From there grandparents, great grandparents and so on. It was very scary at first when we understood even less. Today, it isn't as scary but still a risk. At the beginning, I showered and changed my clothes after every contact. Today I shower before I leave the hospital. So that is my story, here is my gripe. I don't care for the government telling us what to do. "I love going to a bar and not smelling smoke, I hate that the government has told the private business owner what he/she can and can't do in his own place." I respect people opinions not to get vaccinated, I don't think the government should force people to do it. I am always open to hear someones opinion for not getting vaccinated. Some people have good reason, some not so much. I just listen, I may judge, but no reason to try to change someones mind. Now the cynical part. The nurses in those Covid units are tired, they are scared, they hurt and cry every time someone they have worked so hard to help has to be intubated. They see it as the beginning of the end, most times they are right. I am tired of putting my self and my family at risk. Get a new job people say, stop doing it they say. We are already understaffed, and my colleagues are already over worked, it isn't in my blood not to help, however detrimental it may be to myself or my family. This is the carrier I chose for my life and these are the cards we have right now. I don't think those 70% of unvaccinated people understand the strain they are putting on health care workers. I do not think they thought it could happen to them. It is hard to keep the thought of unvaccinated people being selfish out of your head. In my mind, if the reason you aren't getting vaccinated is worth dying for, I admire your resolute. If the reason isn't worth dying for, you should rethink your reasoning. If you simply think you are too tough to get Covid, then you are tough enough to get vaccinated. No one should make that decision for you. I don't want anyone to need my skill set, I don't want anyone mandated by the government to do something they don't want to do. For Pete's sake if we could just knock down the amount of admissions into the hospital, those that did need admitted would get better care and hopefully a better prognosis. My apologies for the diarrhea of the mouth. College wrestling, specifically PSU wrestling is my happy place these days.
Well said Andy!
I havent posted much on the subject either, but this bout brought tears. God bless you brother!
 
I know I shouldn't reply with my thoughts but, I have read too many of others opinion not too. I work in a hospital setting and get called to intubate Covid patients most shifts. By the time I see these patients their chances of recovering as slim. Some do, most don't. Intubating them is a last ditch effort. 70% of these patients are unvaccinated. A guesstimate of 95% of them have comorbidities (obese, HTN, DM, Smokers). Of the 30% vaccinated that deteriorate until they need my help 99% have comorbidities, usually pretty severe. 1% are vaccinated and healthy as a horse, they just have bad luck. Every time I go into a room to intubate someone I am putting my self at risk. That bothers me slightly, what bothers me a great deal is that I am putting everyone in the room, as well as my family at risk. I am vaccinated, my family is vaccinated, but there is still a risk that I bring it home. From there grandparents, great grandparents and so on. It was very scary at first when we understood even less. Today, it isn't as scary but still a risk. At the beginning, I showered and changed my clothes after every contact. Today I shower before I leave the hospital. So that is my story, here is my gripe. I don't care for the government telling us what to do. "I love going to a bar and not smelling smoke, I hate that the government has told the private business owner what he/she can and can't do in his own place." I respect people opinions not to get vaccinated, I don't think the government should force people to do it. I am always open to hear someones opinion for not getting vaccinated. Some people have good reason, some not so much. I just listen, I may judge, but no reason to try to change someones mind. Now the cynical part. The nurses in those Covid units are tired, they are scared, they hurt and cry every time someone they have worked so hard to help has to be intubated. They see it as the beginning of the end, most times they are right. I am tired of putting my self and my family at risk. Get a new job people say, stop doing it they say. We are already understaffed, and my colleagues are already over worked, it isn't in my blood not to help, however detrimental it may be to myself or my family. This is the carrier I chose for my life and these are the cards we have right now. I don't think those 70% of unvaccinated people understand the strain they are putting on health care workers. I do not think they thought it could happen to them. It is hard to keep the thought of unvaccinated people being selfish out of your head. In my mind, if the reason you aren't getting vaccinated is worth dying for, I admire your resolute. If the reason isn't worth dying for, you should rethink your reasoning. If you simply think you are too tough to get Covid, then you are tough enough to get vaccinated. No one should make that decision for you. I don't want anyone to need my skill set, I don't want anyone mandated by the government to do something they don't want to do. For Pete's sake if we could just knock down the amount of admissions into the hospital, those that did need admitted would get better care and hopefully a better prognosis. My apologies for the diarrhea of the mouth. College wrestling, specifically PSU wrestling is my happy place these days.
Don't apologize for posting your thoughts, we should all be free to do that. First of all, thank you for what you do, and for your dedication to helping people, it is greatly appreciated! My father in law passed about a year ago, had a bad heart and blood clot issues before getting covid. Recovered from the covid, and about a month later got pneumonia in both lungs. Long story short had to be intubated, and passed a short time later. Our family sent a personal thank you letter to the doctor, who was incredibly understanding and empathetic. Again, thank you.....
 
As far as I know most variants have come from over seas, Omicron supposedly from South Africa. So how is someone in PA without a vax adding to the variant formation?
 
Oh, so those 6 don't fit the mold, so they don't count? Im very much aware of the data, don't insult my intelligence. Answer these questions for me if you are so bought into the so called vaccine effectiveness data. How do they actually know that people get less sick when vaccinated vs unvaccinated, when they weren't sick before they were vaccinated? They don't. How do they know that the vaccine actually prevents death? They don't. People react to the virus differently based on age, physical conditions and blood types, they may have died with or without the vaccine, they may have been sicker with or without the vaccine. There's no prior data to back up the claims. I have family members who are vaccinated and got extremely sick, and I have family members who were not vaccinated that were only slightly sick. I respect your opinion and kindly agree to disagree
No data? There is literally data from all over the world showing the vaccine to be ~90%+ effective against death. I literally haven’t seen any actual data claiming otherwise. There have been a few outliers showing ~40% effective against infection, but even with that most data says they (the mRNA vaccines at least) are still ~60-80% effective against infection.

Remember vaccine effectiveness is comparing the size of the populations. So if most of the people you know are vaccinated, then it’s not a surprise that most of the people you know that got seriously ill with Covid are also vaccinated.
 
Not the same argument if I get the vaccine at least I'm trying to decrease variant formation. People refusing vaccines aren't even trying

There is both research and opinion that states Covid mutation is more likely in the vaccinated, just as there is other sources saying the opposite.

Not the best sources but at least an explanation from one side. The main point being, we are too quick to demonize the un-Vaxed, based upon incomplete, inaccurate, or even outright propaganda. Free choice is a value we should hold dear.


 
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I know I shouldn't reply with my thoughts but, I have read too many of others opinion not too. I work in a hospital setting and get called to intubate Covid patients most shifts. By the time I see these patients their chances of recovering as slim. Some do, most don't. Intubating them is a last ditch effort. 70% of these patients are unvaccinated. A guesstimate of 95% of them have comorbidities (obese, HTN, DM, Smokers). Of the 30% vaccinated that deteriorate until they need my help 99% have comorbidities, usually pretty severe. 1% are vaccinated and healthy as a horse, they just have bad luck. Every time I go into a room to intubate someone I am putting my self at risk. That bothers me slightly, what bothers me a great deal is that I am putting everyone in the room, as well as my family at risk. I am vaccinated, my family is vaccinated, but there is still a risk that I bring it home. From there grandparents, great grandparents and so on. It was very scary at first when we understood even less. Today, it isn't as scary but still a risk. At the beginning, I showered and changed my clothes after every contact. Today I shower before I leave the hospital. So that is my story, here is my gripe. I don't care for the government telling us what to do. "I love going to a bar and not smelling smoke, I hate that the government has told the private business owner what he/she can and can't do in his own place." I respect people opinions not to get vaccinated, I don't think the government should force people to do it. I am always open to hear someones opinion for not getting vaccinated. Some people have good reason, some not so much. I just listen, I may judge, but no reason to try to change someones mind. Now the cynical part. The nurses in those Covid units are tired, they are scared, they hurt and cry every time someone they have worked so hard to help has to be intubated. They see it as the beginning of the end, most times they are right. I am tired of putting my self and my family at risk. Get a new job people say, stop doing it they say. We are already understaffed, and my colleagues are already over worked, it isn't in my blood not to help, however detrimental it may be to myself or my family. This is the carrier I chose for my life and these are the cards we have right now. I don't think those 70% of unvaccinated people understand the strain they are putting on health care workers. I do not think they thought it could happen to them. It is hard to keep the thought of unvaccinated people being selfish out of your head. In my mind, if the reason you aren't getting vaccinated is worth dying for, I admire your resolute. If the reason isn't worth dying for, you should rethink your reasoning. If you simply think you are too tough to get Covid, then you are tough enough to get vaccinated. No one should make that decision for you. I don't want anyone to need my skill set, I don't want anyone mandated by the government to do something they don't want to do. For Pete's sake if we could just knock down the amount of admissions into the hospital, those that did need admitted would get better care and hopefully a better prognosis. My apologies for the diarrhea of the mouth. College wrestling, specifically PSU wrestling is my happy place these days.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Just curious, what is the vaccination rate of the nurses you work with and for those that haven’t, would you say most of them have “good reasons”? (IMO, having a confirmed natural infection would be a good reason, but not sure how many of them that’s the case for).
 
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