David Taylor to Oklahoma State & related news
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Yeah man that’s just incorrect… Cael gave them an ultimatum. They had no choice but to fire Bobby because they weren’t going to lose another Gable and Cael just doesn’t have much loyalty. Cael stays where things are going his way. Much like the Wick situation at PSU. That was his first road block and he about left for OSU.
As for the resources at ISU… the only school in the country that could give him the kind of resources that PSU provided was probably PSU. ISU was doing everything they could and a lot changed in the landscape after yall stepped up and supported wrestling like yall did.
This is not to bash on Cael or PSU. He’s arguably the greatest wrestling coach of all time and yall made everyone step their game up. Every school would love to replicate the success. Let’s just hold off on the judgement for thee and not for me stuff.
why should we believe your version over others? Where’s your evidence that it went down the way you describe?
So let me get this straight. Your answer to my post is "you are wrong, but everything you posted is correct".
It doesn't make any difference if Cael said make me the head coach or else. The reason it was a legitimate discussion is because Iowa was a legimate possibility and Ohio State was an immediate probability.
Both OSU's have access to similar resources. If he had gone to Iowa, the Hawk wrestling community would have ponied up the resources also. Hell, if Pollard had put forth the effort ISU could have gotten alumni to fund a whole lot of what was needed.
That all aside, available resources are one thing a whole lot of schools have access to.
PSU and Ohio State have the distinct advantage of being smack dab in the middle of the best recruiting grounds in the country. I have no doubt if ISU had not made Cael their head coach he would have set up shop in Columbus Ohio 3 years earlier than he did State College and what has, is and will happen in Happy Vally would be going on in Columbus.
Me, I am happy as hell ISU stepped up and made Cael their head wrestling coach. I am just as happy ISU thought that was all they had to do.
While we’re on the topic of imperfect behavior, let’s not forget to include our favorite whipping boy, Iowa. Some of you guys here can probably supply more details, but I never felt good about the way that Jim Zelesky was treated when he was replaced by Tom Brands. My recollection is that he was blindsided. Head coach one day, looking for a new job the next.
Eh. it DOES make a difference on one side or the other. Because the argument is moral fortitude of said coaches. I had always heard that the AD made the move to fire Bobby because the Ohio State job opened up (Iowa was always going to be Tom, no matter what).
I would certainly view Cael differently if he actually told the AD to pick him or Bobby.
Eh. If Jimmy didn't know it was coming - he was just that blind. Boosters were calling for his head. There's no way he didn't know. He was just pissed.
Ahhh, but you forget that this is the PSU message board. Therefore anything that Iowa does is inherently wrong including breathing because they are wasting good air. 🤣
That's silly. If Pollard and Cael are discussing Cael's future and both know the OSU job is sitting there, the Cael or Bobby question is already implied and hanging in the air if not openly discussed.
Leaving 3 years later for what he perceived to be a better opportunity is simply leaving for a better opportunity. Whatever the extra benefits included in the definition of "better opportunity" have no meaning in qualifying or quantifying the move as any kind of measuring stick of Cael did to Bobby or ISU.
Because it’s the truth. Jamie Pollard and Douglas have both put it out there. Its in Douglas’ book
“The Ohio State job had come open and we couldn't risk losing Cael,' Pollard told Sesker. ' ...
Cael told me 'I'm either the head coach at Iowa State or I leave.' ' ISU didn't want to lose Sanderson as it lost Dan Gable to Iowa so many years earlier. Douglas was given the option to stay one more year, but didn't want to work under that cloud, knowing he wouldn't be coming back.”
Thats a direct quote from Pollard
Also, if the Iowa job was always going to be Tom's I bet they would like to rethink that one.
ATown, other than trying to toss a few turds in a hurricane, is there a point to this?
Y'all best be on your way.
Y'all best be on your way.
That isn't pricking over Bobby though. It is being upfront. I am either going to be the Ohio State head coach or the Iowa State head coach. You choose.
It was Pollard who chose Cael over Bobby. I suppose Cael could have just said I am taking the Ohio State job and will not stay out of respect for Bobby but the plan at the time was Cael was going to replace Bobby in a year or two. The OSU just bumped the schedule up a bit.
No one had ever financially supported a wrestling program / system like y’all decided to do in ‘09/‘10 whatever.
I don’t know why that’s a bad thing to say or controversial. No OSU, Ohio St and Iowa we’re not supporting themselves at that level until yall made everyone try and catch up. No reasonable person would have expected ISU to come up with something like that. They still can’t and they’re spurring like hell. These aren’t body shots at PSU and Cael. It’s reality that everyone has moments where they get down in the mud and do some things that can later be judged as immoral. Cael is insanely driven and has a one track mind. You’re either helping or hurting him. If you’re on the wrong side of that then you’re done and there don’t seem to be many tears shed on his part. It’s not a lot different than Saban. These guys are GOATs. The level of ego it takes for someone to seperate to that degree is unimaginable.
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Actually, I think it’s an interesting discussion. That doesn’t mean that I have to agree with everything that is posted.
If you go back to the Seamus post and read from there… it’s the subject of the thread
FYI - All organizational loyalty died in the mid 80s. It was systematic and brought on by top management in all fields. So it is understandable that Cael would have grown up without such a foundation.
"Everything isn't personal; it's strictly business." That is one of today's management mantras along with "OK, but that's in the past. What have you done for me lately?"
The devaluing of loyalty has occurred and continues with the restructuring of pensions (toward their elimination), and many changing employers shortly after becoming vested to seek material raises in salary (as employers suppress employee compensation through collusion-like means).
In such an environment, one should understandably have no qualms in leaving an organization wherein their priorities and values don't align with those in charge.
There is nothing immoral about taking a better opportunity. If you get that promotion that you were asking your boss for, and then three years later a rival company makes you a great offer and you leave, does that make you immoral? If so, then most people who want what is best for themselves and their families are immoral. As has been said many times over the years, advocate for yourself with your company because no one else will.
Does anyone have a handle on the "full" story of the Wick situation? I never understood how a Cal Poly student wouldn't be academically eligible at Penn State. And Cael was ready to go, specifically to OK St? That's the first time I've seen that info. I know he wasn't happy and was considering leaving. I know Sandy Barbour is the villain in the story, but I still can't see the shape of the narrative.
I don’t disagree on the whole
The part I disagree with is that he knew what he was saying when he told Pollard “I’m either the HC at ISU or I’m leaving… there can only be one HC. When you push out a man like Bobby that had been such a big part of your life, then maybe you think twice before leaving town in the middle of the night shortly after. He should’ve just left Bobby alone and took the Ohio St job
Cael's father pointed out that PSU had everything that was needed to build a dynasty and probably was a job that comes open once every 15 years. If it wasn't for Steve Sanderson, Cael very well could still be at Iowa State. Cael would have won national championships at ISU, most likely would not have created the PSU dynasty there.
Obviously Cael did well at ISU in the 3 years as HC. How long does someone need to stay in a successfully performed job before it's acceptable to leave? There really is no right or wrong answer to that. The fact that Cael reached out to PSU tells you that it may be possible that Cael didn't receive what he had been promised by Pollard or the admin. You gave us Pollard's quote. It may be true. It may not be true. Pollard is an interested party so the truth is likely somewhat different than his words imply.
You can’t convince me of the first point. If I push my brother out of the farm just to turn around and sell the farm…. That says something about me. Was it really good for me? Yes. Was it right? No
On your second point… I actually 100% agree. And the same grain of salt will be used to measure any of the dirt being slung at DT now that it’s convenient. Just another example of why there is no point in doing it
I was also on the grassy knoll and behind the grandstands in PA
To be fair, only a few of us are slinging dirt at DT, which in and of itself is also a pretty human reaction to such a situation. I've found your perspective here pretty valuable. The full story of all of this may never be known. Doesn't matter to me much--I'm mostly here to discuss the wrestling. 😲 And to throw shade on our Rivals, of course (it's in the name of the site).
That's not analagous at all to what happened at ISU. Even if Cael asked for Bobby's job, ISU could have said NO. Bill O'Brien told us he was going to raise PSU football from the ashes, blah, blah, blah. He left for the NFL two years later before he finished the job. Life goes on. I don't consider O'Brien as immoral. It's life without morality involved.
We have no Rivals. This website should change its name.
Lol stop arguing so I can stop … it’s dead on. There is always a banker or a parent or someone that allows one brother to be pushed out. They could always say no.
And yet you have imagined it.
I was going to post essentially the same thing as nerf. I too enjoy reading your perspective @AtownPoke and am glad you started hanging out. And props on threading the needle of disagreeing without being disagreeable. That can be
I for one haven't slung any dirt at DT over his move to the Pokes. Honestly, that event didn't change my view of DT in any way. I do get the sense that DT's luster among PSU faithful has dimmed slightly over the years. I suspect it's largely due to the fact that he went from being one of very few stars in our constellation to just being one of many. Everyone appreciates his historical significance to the program since wrestling was invented in 2010. But there are now LOTS of favorite stars to choose from.
If my aging memory serves me correctly, I think I recall reading about a guy named Joseph who lived a very long time ago. His brothers thought they got rid of him for good only to later find out that he ended up doing very well in spite of his earlier circumstances. Does his story fit any of those that we are discussing?
You probably need to consider not typing for a while. You're entire diatribe seems to be a weird attempt at pissing everyone off.
Ahhh but it is immoral according to some. All outcomes must be equal regardless of the ability or effort of the individual.
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