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I probably don’t understand the push out rule then. Thanks for clarifyingIf you're attacking on the edge and you finish a takedown on the edge in freestyle, you're getting the points for the takedown. If you don't finish the takedown and you've driven your opponent out of bounds under attack, you're scoring the stepout.
Why is this such a hard thing to grasp? It's not like all those edge takedowns would immediately go away.
It's not sumo, because a straight push gets zero points in freestyle and Greco.
Freestyle continuation rules are cool (and if we could get consistently large enough mats in college, I might consider advocating them in folk), but it's not the same thing as what we saw in Hall vs. Valencia. I'm sorry, but the threat of being called for a step out shuts down action on the edge, unless you're in the process of finishing a shot, you're going to circle and push at the edge, not take a chance at more. Scrambling, and wrestling though positions is not something you see at the edge in free in the same way you see it with the current college rules.If you're attacking on the edge and you finish a takedown on the edge in freestyle, you're getting the points for the takedown. If you don't finish the takedown and you've driven your opponent out of bounds under attack, you're scoring the stepout.
Why is this such a hard thing to grasp? It's not like all those edge takedowns would immediately go away.
It's not sumo, because a straight push gets zero points in freestyle and Greco.
To me that is a straight push, and have never seen it not scored.
I saw some of his young kids wrestling up in age at the PAWF club duals and then saw their MS results down in VA Beach. They are a growing force on the club scene and in a couple of years I won't be surprised if they are battling it out with the top club teams in the country at HS events. A lot of talent in that room.Oh, snip, here they come!
Taylor's club has attracted a number of top young wrestlers, including some who drive in from as far as an hour away to attend practices. Taylor works with the wrestlers along with three-time NAIA national champion Eric Thompson and past Penn State All-American Mark McKnight.
Among Taylor's wrestlers are two sons of Penn State assistant coach Casey Cunningham.
"Our club is really growing quickly -- we have kids who have improved a lot already," he said. "What we are trying to create is a great wrestling environment. It's really exciting to watch the progress these kids are making. We have a really good group. I have a great support team with Eric and Mark working as coaches. We just moved to a new facility and everything is going really well."
1st, I appreciate your work for "our" sport--so thank you. However, I feel I've articulated a good reason to not favor the rule change, and that you're glossing over my argument in favor of an all-too common tendency in this day and age to just assume the "other side" is a bunch of "idiots."... well, that isn't a straight push, so no wonder you've never seen it not scored.
Lorenzo fan makes a good point about mat sizes, etc. That could be the natural next step, but then we'll have people complaining about the cost of new mats, etc.
People who don't want a stepout (the actual terminology) are going to come up with ever excuse/reason possible. That's the only sure thing about the stepout debate.
That IS a straight push-no attempt made once the leg is up to finish a takedown, probably due to the risk of a scramble.... well, that isn't a straight push, so no wonder you've never seen it not scored.
People who don't want a stepout (the actual terminology) are going to come up with ever excuse/reason possible. That's the only sure thing about the stepout debate.
It's not sumo, because a straight push gets zero points in freestyle and Greco.
That IS a straight push-no attempt made once the leg is up to finish a takedown, probably due to the risk of a scramble.
While I have great respect for your knowledge of the sport, just because I disagree with you on the topic doesn't make my observation less valuable than yours. I could say the opposite-those in favor of a folk "step out" rule will come up with every possible "excuse" as to how it would be better, rather than actually making the effort to train the existing referees to call stalling consistently.
I'm not saying your observation is less valuable at all. Neither you or I make the rules and neither you or I make the distinction of what the step out (its proper terminology) is.
I'm explaining that, by rule, what a non-scoring push is. That action is devoid of any leg attack. If there's an action to secure the leg, that is an attack. Further segmenting the attack by pointing out it's no longer an attack if an athlete starts pushing his opponent to the edge is a matter of personal preference.
I've also never said the anti-stepout crowd is a bunch of idiots. Thankfully, most of the interactions I've had here are with people who know and respect the sport - but this country and the nation's folkstyle-only crowd make discussing these points problematic. Context matters, so if my viewpoint comes across as dismissive, it's not the intent, but I've also been in enough forum debates over the years to know the "head in the sand" does exist and will chime in soon enough.
Since the 2013 rule changes, I've watched thousands of international wrestling matches and probably just as many folkstyle matches. To me, the flow of a freestyle match is much better than the flow of a collegiate one.
I'd actually like to pose this to Willie, Nomad or any of the Flo guys who could take the time to analyze the length of their videos. What's the average length of a full-time, seven-minute college folkstyle match and the average length of a full-time six minute freestyle match?
Based on my time with USAW and breaking in their streaming and videos, most folkstyle matches that went the distance in college would be in the 12-14 minute range where freestyle bouts are in the 8-9 minute range, that's including the 30 second break.
Action keeps moving with a stepout, wrestlers can't run and hide on the edge. I hate riding time, but I believe our college style is great, I also think the reinvention of freestyle is also great. I wouldn't want NCAA wrestling rules to change on a whim by an outfit in Switzerland either.
The dragging the toe TD's would still happen. Arbitrary "action" calls on the edge when a wrestler is clearly backing out with 20 seconds to go would be gone.
We take away exciting edge wrestling? Is that what we're worried about? What is the drawback - a serious drawback - in creating a stepout point to keep the wrestling in the center and the wrestling continuing?
Back to DT’s club. love seeing the coaching tree grow and grow as Cael-style spreads. Needless to say, M2’s color scheme ain’t Black and Gold like some other clubs in the CommonwealthI saw some of his young kids wrestling up in age at the PAWF club duals and then saw their MS results down in VA Beach. They are a growing force on the club scene and in a couple of years I won't be surprised if they are battling it out with the top club teams in the country at HS events. A lot of talent in that room.
I'm not saying your observation is less valuable at all. Neither you or I make the rules and neither you or I make the distinction of what the step out (its proper terminology) is.
I'm explaining that, by rule, what a non-scoring push is. That action is devoid of any leg attack. If there's an action to secure the leg, that is an attack. Further segmenting the attack by pointing out it's no longer an attack if an athlete starts pushing his opponent to the edge is a matter of personal preference.
I don't think Iowa has ever gotten rid of the giant mat. They still speak of it to this day as being the largest regulation sized mat that they use.If they brought in that rule, I would LOVE to see Cael bring in the GIANT mat like the old Iowa coach did in the mid 1970's. Try the push out then!
Among Taylor's wrestlers are two sons of Penn State assistant coach Casey Cunningham.
No no man. That mat from 1975 was ENORMOUS. I don't have the pic, but he ran it out there to keep Oklahoma State from going off the mat, legend has it. I think it was even square, not a circle.I don't think Iowa has ever gotten rid of the giant mat. They still speak of it to this day as being the largest regulation sized mat that they use.
Understatement. Big time.And they're both really good.
Well, they certainly have the genetic makeup for athletic success. National champ father and mother who’s an Olympian.Understatement. Big time.
Back to DT’s club. love seeing the coaching tree grow and grow as Cael-style spreads. Needless to say, M2’s color scheme ain’t Black and Gold like some other clubs in the Commonwealth
But is that pipeline as reliable as Young Guns to Iowa?DT be like
Uh huh. You’re getting what CT is layin’ down.DT be like
OK, thanks.I saw wrestlers penaliz
No no man. That mat from 1975 was ENORMOUS. I don't have the pic, but he ran it out there to keep Oklahoma State from going off the mat, legend has it. I think it was even square, not a circle.
This argument, "people are wrong because they're wrong" won't fly. That's not how an honest debate works. You know:: come up with every reason/excuse possible for your side.... well, that isn't a straight push, so no wonder you've never seen it not scored.
Lorenzo fan makes a good point about mat sizes, etc. That could be the natural next step, but then we'll have people complaining about the cost of new mats, etc.
People who don't want a stepout (the actual terminology) are going to come up with ever excuse/reason possible. That's the only sure thing about the stepout debate.
What if, instead of "action," I want "wrestling," not out-of-bounds-avoiding.If you want action, penalizing for going out of bounds incentivizes action or at least positions wrestlers to engage and be active.
This is letting perfect get in the way of potentially better. As if the Perry/Delgado edge hugging, you do all the work, I roll out and get a clean start, is desirable.What if, instead of "action," I want "wrestling," not out-of-bounds-avoiding.