Might want to check Smith's international record.
David Taylor to Oklahoma State & related news
- Thread starter GableBeer
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It's my observation--and I could be wrong but I'm generalizing--that the higher up the 'greatest ever' mountain those guys climb, the less they actually care about 'greatest ever' arguments because with the climb came the wisdom that recognizes the argument's futility.
It was outstanding but Cael is the Goat. Smith is an all time great but not americas greatest wrestler. If ur looking just internationally, Bruce B is hard to beat.
Just read an article that said he tried to get Taylor to be the Sooners coach last year. Seems like he was all in on DT as the future and wanted it in OK
Fair about Baumgartner ... but what exactly did you expect Taylor to say about his predecessor at an introductory press conference in Stillwater OK?
Can we all just admit that at some deep tribal level, this bugs us, even though we know that Cael was a great wrestler, whose coaching was sure to produce coaches.
But maybe we should just be more measured here. He's neither the Messiah or the devil incarnate.
1.) Taylor was a great wrestler too be sure. However, his reputation is built more on his post college freestyle record than his college record and that is in part built upon bulking up. Arguably Brooks, Starocci, Nickal, Nolf, Retherford could be said to have had better college careers based on things like number of titles, WBF etc.
2.) Taylor is great at self-marketing, with the whole "magic man" thing and has been a genius at making wrestling a career, but the keystone of that effort, active participation was coming to a close. My guess is he thought he could bear AB one more time, but that didn't happen. The next leap was forced on him.
3.) As of now, his coaching is limited to youth wrestling, and starry eyed kids who are happy to be in his presence-and whose parents pay for the privilege-and no doubt tell their kids-listen to Coach Taylor. No demanding college administrators, No exacting and capricious NCAA rules and its army of petty bureaucrats and reams of paperwork, no disappointed boosters, no criminal charges against athletes, no titanic egos, no kids struggling with college or homesickness, no roster juggling.
4.) He's dislocating his family to go to Stillwater. That entails risks of "post purchase regret", even if his wife is completely on board now.
Bluntly, Stillwater Oklahoma is only a dream destination for people with an affinity for pavement sucking tornadoes.
5.) John Smith had an illustrious career as a wrestler at Oklahoma State and is native and although:
"John Smith is a name synonymous with wrestling success."
John Smith - Head Coach - Cowboy Wrestling Coaches - Oklahoma State University Athletics
John Smith is a name synonymous with wrestling success. The Oklahoma State head coach won six consecutive world championships as a competitor from 1987-92, i...
Apparently the expectations are higher than that,
Nobody is dropping the small fortune reportedly involved in this deal without the apparent expectation of displacing PSU and returning OK State to the glory of decades past.
6.) Time will tell how this all works out; if I was an elite wrestler or the parent of one; I'd be thinking go to the place where there's proven success over a decade and a half. If you can't crack the starting line-up, then you can go to the middle of nowhere. (I know this is snippy) but come wrestle for the guys that GET pins in the NCAA finals, not get pinned.
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He could say a lot of things without offering an indefensible superlative.
Here, try this superficial bit of corporate aspartame.
I'm humbled to be selected as Coach Smith's successor, he's been a huge part of the University for such a long time and I hope he can offer some wisdom and counsel as I take on this new challenge of building on his legacy.
(I can write this stuff, but I can't say it with the facade of sincerity, so I remain a mid-level bureaucrat).
Hopefully AB goes out and wins Olympic Gold so that he will be the next face of US wrestling.Can we all just admit that at some deep tribal level, this bugs us, even though we know that Cael was a great wrestler, whose coaching was sure to produce coaches.
But maybe we should just be more measured here. He's neither the Messiah or the devil incarnate.
1.) Taylor was a great wrestler too be sure. However, his reputation is built more on his post college freestyle record than his college record and that is in part built upon bulking up. Arguably Brooks, Starocci, Nickal, Nolf, Retherford could be said to have had better college careers based on things like number of titles, WBF etc.
2.) Taylor is great at self-marketing, with the whole "magic man" thing and has been a genius at making wrestling a career, but the keystone of that effort, active participation was coming to a close. My guess is he thought he could bear AB one more time, but that didn't happen. The next leap was forced on him.
3.) As of now, his coaching is limited to youth wrestling, and starry eyed kids who are happy to be in his presence-and whose parents pay for the privilege-and no doubt tell their kids-listen to Coach Taylor. No demanding college administrators, No exacting and capricious NCAA rules and its army of petty bureaucrats and reams of paperwork, no disappointed boosters, no criminal charges against athletes, no titanic egos, no kids struggling with college or homesickness, no roster juggling.
4.) He's dislocating his family to go to Stillwater. That entails risks of "post purchase regret", even if his wife is completely on board now.
Bluntly, Stillwater Oklahoma is only a dream destination for people with an affinity for pavement sucking tornadoes.
5.) John Smith had an illustrious career as a wrestler at Oklahoma State and is native and although:
"John Smith is a name synonymous with wrestling success."
John Smith - Head Coach - Cowboy Wrestling Coaches - Oklahoma State University Athletics
John Smith is a name synonymous with wrestling success. The Oklahoma State head coach won six consecutive world championships as a competitor from 1987-92, i...okstate.com
Apparently the expectations are higher than that,
Nobody is dropping the small fortune reportedly involved in this deal without the apparent expectation of displacing PSU and returning OK State to the glory of decades past.
6.) Time will tell how this all works out; if I was an elite wrestler or the parent of one; I'd be thinking go to the place where there's proven success over a decade and a half. If you can't crack the starting line-up, then you can go to the middle of nowhere. (I know this is snippy) but come wrestle for the guys that GET pins in the NCAA finals, not get pinned.
Please. He's trying to pump up his audience, which is not us.
I think everyone is already thinking that Okie State will be competing with us for National Titles right away.
There is a lot more involved in coaching than just having a household name.
Yes maybe they will start competing with us rather soon but its far from a foregone conclusion.
There is a lot more involved in coaching than just having a household name.
Yes maybe they will start competing with us rather soon but its far from a foregone conclusion.
134-3. 125 wins by bonus. 4 trips to the finals. 2 championships. 5th all time NCAA points. Two (unshared) Hodge trophies.
Translation: I disagree
OooofCan we all just admit that at some deep tribal level, this bugs us, even though we know that Cael was a great wrestler, whose coaching was sure to produce coaches.
But maybe we should just be more measured here. He's neither the Messiah or the devil incarnate.
1.) Taylor was a great wrestler too be sure. However, his reputation is built more on his post college freestyle record than his college record and that is in part built upon bulking up. Arguably Brooks, Starocci, Nickal, Nolf, Retherford could be said to have had better college careers based on things like number of titles, WBF etc.
2.) Taylor is great at self-marketing, with the whole "magic man" thing and has been a genius at making wrestling a career, but the keystone of that effort, active participation was coming to a close. My guess is he thought he could bear AB one more time, but that didn't happen. The next leap was forced on him.
3.) As of now, his coaching is limited to youth wrestling, and starry eyed kids who are happy to be in his presence-and whose parents pay for the privilege-and no doubt tell their kids-listen to Coach Taylor. No demanding college administrators, No exacting and capricious NCAA rules and its army of petty bureaucrats and reams of paperwork, no disappointed boosters, no criminal charges against athletes, no titanic egos, no kids struggling with college or homesickness, no roster juggling.
4.) He's dislocating his family to go to Stillwater. That entails risks of "post purchase regret", even if his wife is completely on board now.
Bluntly, Stillwater Oklahoma is only a dream destination for people with an affinity for pavement sucking tornadoes.
5.) John Smith had an illustrious career as a wrestler at Oklahoma State and is native and although:
"John Smith is a name synonymous with wrestling success."
John Smith - Head Coach - Cowboy Wrestling Coaches - Oklahoma State University Athletics
John Smith is a name synonymous with wrestling success. The Oklahoma State head coach won six consecutive world championships as a competitor from 1987-92, i...
Apparently the expectations are higher than that,
Nobody is dropping the small fortune reportedly involved in this deal without the apparent expectation of displacing PSU and returning OK State to the glory of decades past.
6.) Time will tell how this all works out; if I was an elite wrestler or the parent of one; I'd be thinking go to the place where there's proven success over a decade and a half. If you can't crack the starting line-up, then you can go to the middle of nowhere. (I know this is snippy) but come wrestle for the guys that GET pins in the NCAA finals, not get pinned.
I don't know anything about Okie State wrestling media, but am wondering how they will deal with the personality and cultural differences between DT and John Smith.
Smith has certainly set expectations over the past 33 years of being pretty salty/blunt about his wrestlers' performance after disappointing duals and tournaments. I assume DT will be more guarded and protective of his guys in public comments ala Cael.
If so, it will be interesting to see how that plays with the local crowd.
Smith has certainly set expectations over the past 33 years of being pretty salty/blunt about his wrestlers' performance after disappointing duals and tournaments. I assume DT will be more guarded and protective of his guys in public comments ala Cael.
If so, it will be interesting to see how that plays with the local crowd.
I want Ca
No shirt. You can pump your audience without slighting the people that put you in a position to have an audience.
Just admit, he committed a faux paus. It's not terrible or damning, but it is an indicator that it's a different matter to address "the bubble-headed bleach blonde that comes on at five" as an incoming coach rather than an athlete.
Hell even athletes say stupid things into microphones. Ask Jordan Burroughs.
And every rational person in attendance knew that and has a pretty clear idea of who DT believes is the true GOAT.
Needs to put a little bass into his voice. He's no Cael.
DT was amazing for PSU and was a major part of the complete shift that occurred in wrestling 15 years ago. He is not Cael, but he is very popular, very well known and quite accomplished. Who knows if this works out, but I wouldn't bet against him. I think it just depends on what your definition of success is. I am 100% PSU and do not want to lose any team titles over the next decade but I can recognize this was a great hire for Okie St and that DT has done more for PSU than most (if not all) of us have. He is going to (As he should be) act and say what he has to say as the HC of Okie St, doesn't change his impact on state college, imo.
I never get wound up in these GOAT arguments, believing it to be a mythological being.
Heck, in collegiate wrestling John wasnt even the greatest in his own family, was he?
All silliness.
Heck, in collegiate wrestling John wasnt even the greatest in his own family, was he?
All silliness.
I'm happy for David. Of course I didn't want him to leave Happy Valley, but this will be good for him (his family and his assistants too), college wrestling, and even for PSU. It's a good refresh for us, as if we needed it, but it will be. I'm excited for what this all this holds. I want to see us win against other competitive teams and the best up against us. Not a floundering Hawkeye program.
I don't care for the negative stuff being thrown at David by some here. It was a great opportunity for him. Regarding his presser, he was trying to be diplomatic with all the OSU entourage in tow. In a follow up interview I watched he was very complimentary to all of our staff. On the possible AB leak, if it was him, not great, but we don't know the circumstances of it all. Was it an off hand remark? Maybe, and not a big deal. If he approached Mineo just to spill dirt that's a stain on his character, but we don't know.
This is good for all of us. It's amazing we have kept our core staff and most of our legends in place this long. This was bound to happen sooner or later. At least it wasn't Iowa or the other OSU. David said there were only a few coaching gigs he would be open to, this was too good to turn down. A solid base, great financial resources, a rich tradition, and a huge contract. Plus the challenge.
I'll be cheering for David and the Cowboys....just not when they are wrestling against PSU. I'd love to see a dual meet with us and the Cowboys at Gallagher or Rec Hall. That would be just too good for college wrestling (and us). Best wishes David!
I don't care for the negative stuff being thrown at David by some here. It was a great opportunity for him. Regarding his presser, he was trying to be diplomatic with all the OSU entourage in tow. In a follow up interview I watched he was very complimentary to all of our staff. On the possible AB leak, if it was him, not great, but we don't know the circumstances of it all. Was it an off hand remark? Maybe, and not a big deal. If he approached Mineo just to spill dirt that's a stain on his character, but we don't know.
This is good for all of us. It's amazing we have kept our core staff and most of our legends in place this long. This was bound to happen sooner or later. At least it wasn't Iowa or the other OSU. David said there were only a few coaching gigs he would be open to, this was too good to turn down. A solid base, great financial resources, a rich tradition, and a huge contract. Plus the challenge.
I'll be cheering for David and the Cowboys....just not when they are wrestling against PSU. I'd love to see a dual meet with us and the Cowboys at Gallagher or Rec Hall. That would be just too good for college wrestling (and us). Best wishes David!
Oooof
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You disagree about what? Jason Nolf 117-3, one loss thanks to an incompetent referee. Nolf has no Hodges-because he had Retherford (two) and Nickal as teammates. Retherford and Nickal both won two Schalles award.
I said "arguably" because there is no way to rank the wrestlers on some unassailable scale/
"You could almost flip a coin and you wouldn’t be wrong between Zain Retherford and David Taylor."
Penn State Wrestling: Top 10 Nittany Lions of All-Time
Penn State Wrestling is one of the most storied and successful programs in the country, and has produced premier talent along with Olympic medalists.victorybellrings.com
Have you looked at Smith’s record? 2X NCAA champion and 3X NCAA finalist. (He lost to Jim Jordan in the finals when he was a sophomore). He was also named OW at least once. His freestyle record is FOUR World Championships and TWO Olympic GOLD medals. (Better than the record of JB) On top of that, he won some other big freestyle competitions although I don’t remember any details.
Whenever discussions occur about the GOAT for US wrestlers, anyone who is discounting Smith must not be very knowledgeable about past wrestling history.
Holy Hyperbole.
Eye roll.
I know you have your chin on Brantt's taint, but that guy is a little nutty & likes to stretch the truth.
Watch the first 2 mins.
TNT much more nervous than the crew in Happy Valley
That would be great, as PSU may have doged a bullet.
History shows that if Sandy thinks it is a good idea, do the exact opposite.
With a few days to allow this move to settle in, I have to say it was a very bold and audacious one by OSU. I don't remember any major college wrestling program that handed over the keys to someone with no experience coaching at the college level. Gable, Smith, Zalesky, Brands, Cael - all of them did a period as an assistant coach for at least a couple years. Cael had three very successful years at Iowa State as a head coach prior to coming to PSU. Tom Brands had two terrible years at VT. Jimmy Kennedy is the only person on staff that has experience coaching at the college level at this point. I'm sure it's going to have to be a fast learning curve for DT.
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I don't see this move hurting us at all sorry just don't see it. DT had a limited part in our team activities and they were mostly at nlwc I get the whole M2 thing but that wasn't always a given either. I think we have the best coaches by a long shot and will continue to dominate the pressure isnt on Cael and company it's on okie state
LOL DT would be nothing without Cael I disagree he would have been great wherever he went!
Agreed. I suspect that OSU thinks recruiting is the most important thing, so check the box, at least initially. DT has shown he can teach and develop, so perhaps OSU thinks he'll pick up on college head coaching quickly. Doesn't hurt he has been by the best.
I found it interesting that Jimmy and Thomas seemed to say 'the staff there' vs the names of the PSU coaches... Wonder if that was there first order being followed. Not sure why
I don't understand why so many think that DT would be the logical Cael successor. Casey is far more deserving. Even Okie State realized that and offered him first. Case closed. I wish DT luck and 2nd place wishes..........but Casey is, by far......the better choice.
Because Casey is 4 years older than Cael and nobody wants Cael to leave that soon?
His wife is an OSU alum but he’s most interested in youth and high school wrestling in the state. He knows that a strong OSU makes OK wrestling better overall
Casey is cool as an assistant. I think Nolf will be future HC material.
By future HC material, I sure hope you don’t mean Hawkeye Carver! 😫
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