Divorce Advice?
- Thread starter fkkkjm
- Start date
Brother,
In a perfect world you and your wife will be counseled successfully and your marriage will be saved. I hope that this is your outcome.
Both of you humbling yourselves and submitting to the laws of the Holy One is the long term solution. I’m hoping that this is your outcome.
Many don’t know that many priests, pastors, and religious have degrees in psychology. Reach out to your church to find that connection. If you aren’t able to find a religious counselor at the very least find a secular counselor who is faithful to your faith and who believes in The Lord and our Savior, Jesus Christ.
if all fails, don’t let your misbehaving spouse have custody of those two children. No matter what pressure is put on you, you must be the primary custodian of those children forever.
I’ve been through hell and back with divorce and making the mistake of assuming the mother should have primary custody.
My kids and I have suffered greatly by (my) allowing the mother who cared less about everyone else, and most about herself to have primary custody.
Do well my friend.
Obli and Ned offered some good advice that I hope every guy takes ...
you have to look at yourself and how you are contributing to the marital issues.
It may or may not help your marriage, but it will definitely help in any future relationships that you enter into.
Also, I don't believe PA is a no fault state (like the one I live in), so any dirt you can dig up will probably help (assuming OP is in PA).
Her new job which pays more than yours will help with alimony/child support calculations. In my state, based on what you have stated, there would be no alimony (unless volunteered), and child support would be a simple calculation based off your current (at time of divorce) salaries and the number of days per week that children stay in each house.
you have to look at yourself and how you are contributing to the marital issues.
It may or may not help your marriage, but it will definitely help in any future relationships that you enter into.
Also, I don't believe PA is a no fault state (like the one I live in), so any dirt you can dig up will probably help (assuming OP is in PA).
Her new job which pays more than yours will help with alimony/child support calculations. In my state, based on what you have stated, there would be no alimony (unless volunteered), and child support would be a simple calculation based off your current (at time of divorce) salaries and the number of days per week that children stay in each house.
A PRENUP is unfortunately a necessity to getting married. Otherwise a divorce is more often than not a “war of the roses” that’s ugly ugly ugly.
My wife and I have been married for 46 years, so I have no experience with divorce. However, I once knew a married couple from church who were marriage therapists. We were talking about marriage challenges one Sunday morning in a Sunday school class, and they were asked on average how many marriages could be saved by marriage counseling. I'll never forget their response: "Over 90% !" Several of us pushed back on that response but they stood by it with one caveat: both parties need to be open to change. The biggest obstacles to change were (1) an unfaithful party that was unwilling to give up an affair, and (2) some sort of addiction, e.g. alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc.
They also said "Do NOT underestimate the effect on your kids." A question they would ask couples who claimed their kids were the most important concern was "Who do you love more, your kids or yourself ?"
I agree with DrJC. Before you even think about a lawyer, try a marriage therapist. If you are people of faith, a Christian marriage therapist is even better. Based on what you have indicated, there is an alcohol issue so that needs to be part of the discussion. If you can convince your wife to participate in the discussion, that needs to be part of it. if she agrees, you will likely be part of the 90%.
Good luck!
They also said "Do NOT underestimate the effect on your kids." A question they would ask couples who claimed their kids were the most important concern was "Who do you love more, your kids or yourself ?"
I agree with DrJC. Before you even think about a lawyer, try a marriage therapist. If you are people of faith, a Christian marriage therapist is even better. Based on what you have indicated, there is an alcohol issue so that needs to be part of the discussion. If you can convince your wife to participate in the discussion, that needs to be part of it. if she agrees, you will likely be part of the 90%.
Good luck!
Interesting.
Marriage, like any relationship, ebbs and flows. Things change. People mature differently.
I've got some friends who grew up of meager means and married their HS sweetheart. Later, they find money and travel and start having affairs with 24 year olds. Their life goals changed. Others do well into their mid-life crises and then have some kind of cathartic change (a health problem or parent passes away) and decide they want to enjoy life. They change their mix of short and long term goals which is often in conflict with their spouse. Others simply get tired of the work-a-day life with the drags of child-raising and get dismayed. For me, my now ex wanted a life with black tie affairs, expensive wine, and bragging to her country club friends. I wanted to work, achieve, make money, raise the kids and be left alone. Today she has lavish super bowl parties while I watch in the basement with my wife. Nobody is wrong.
Often, after a dip or rise, the one that changed first comes back and apologizes. I can't tell you how many friends regret divorcing their partner for someone ten years younger. Its like buying a new car...after a few months, it is just a car. I can't imagine, after the sex is secondary, having to make conversation with a girl 20 years younger about rap music, Kim Kardashian and what is the latest hot show in vegas.
What I have seen in others, including a friend who just divorced due to this reason, is that alcoholism is a wrecking ball for many families. Regardless of deciding to divorce or not, she needs to solve her alcohol issue to be a better parent. I wish you the best as you are in a very difficult time, particularly with the kids.
And by the way, you shouldn’t be posting on the web about this. If she gets a good lawyer they’ll research your internet postings and use it against you if possible. Likewise, if you hire a really good attorney they should do the same to her.
I certainly agree that the only person you can change is yourself, and that it is the stuff of fairytales to imagine that both of you can change simultaneously. I agree also that you are correct when you say, "Change yourself first, your wife will follow." I would only add, "if she does not follow, you have your answer."
I very recently ended an 18 year marriage (together for 25 yrs), and while it was emotionally difficult, I do think we both came out happier. We still love each other but agreed that we were better as friends than as partners.
There were no kids involved and we had zero debt outside of our house. We sold the house, split the profits, and each kept our own retirement money. We agreed early in the process that we would be civil towards each other and not make things difficult. The divorce process was simple and not contested. I believe I was in court less than 15 minutes to finalize everything, and did it without lawyers involved.
My ex and I remain close friends and talk on a regular basis. She has since began dating a guy who is good to her and treats her right. Ironically, I have started dating one of my ex’s much younger freinds and my ex is very supportive and happy for her and I.
I know that my situation is probably and outlier, but just wanted to show that not all divorces are bad if both parties find happiness in the end.
There were no kids involved and we had zero debt outside of our house. We sold the house, split the profits, and each kept our own retirement money. We agreed early in the process that we would be civil towards each other and not make things difficult. The divorce process was simple and not contested. I believe I was in court less than 15 minutes to finalize everything, and did it without lawyers involved.
My ex and I remain close friends and talk on a regular basis. She has since began dating a guy who is good to her and treats her right. Ironically, I have started dating one of my ex’s much younger freinds and my ex is very supportive and happy for her and I.
I know that my situation is probably and outlier, but just wanted to show that not all divorces are bad if both parties find happiness in the end.
^^^ one of the reasons why I obsess with glorifying the use of booze and getting drunk. I used to do volunteer work at my church and my wife is actively involved with both counselling and legal help. I'd set the number of times booze is a major contributing factor to divorce, violence and arrests is in the 90% range.
When I go to a concert or comedian's act, and people cheer because they are smoking or drinking I always wonder "is that an accomplishment? Is that something special? Is that to be celebrated?" I argue the guy and gal getting up at six am, going to work, paying taxes, raising kids are the ones that should be celebrated. And if it takes a pop here and there, that is OK too. But that isn't the accomplishment or what makes them heroes to their kids.
probably true and one of the reasons why I protect my identity. I know the tech and can erase my digital footprints..but nobody knows who Obliviax is other than a couple of close trusted friends.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
I will just echo what most have said on here. Divorces usually are quite ugly even when trying to put the kids first. I am back up in PA currently from FL and went to my kids senior night for vball the other night. My ex and I are finally able to be around each other and friendly. In fact I went over to her house and did some things to help her out. My fiancee even suggested taking my 3 kids and ex out to dinner saying it will help the kids heal. My fiancee was right and she does it with her ex and kids. I saw a big difference in my kids knowing both parents could be around each other and not argue or fight. This trip up north over the last week has really started the healing after our divorce was final 3 years ago. Make no mistake it will take you and your ex along with the kids a long time to heal and the scars never really will go away. I suggest as many try counseling. The kids really take it hard, and will look to place blame through no fault of their own other than trying to manage the pain and hurt. Counseling is my suggestion, no matter what there will be pain for all involved. Good Luck with it all.
Sorry you're going through this. Hard to improve on the great advice, different perspectives, and hard-won wisdom offered in this thread.
Just passed the 40-year mark myself and can attest that marriage is no easy road. Maybe it's never been harder than in the times in which we live. It helps to go into it without illusions on that score.
There's a line in War of the Roses where divorce lawyer Danny DeVito tells a prospective client that "maybe it's not natural to stay married to one person for life. My parents did it. 63 years...a few of them good." Funny but not really.
I haven't been through the ordeal of divorce, but it's probably fair to say that all things being equal, it's better, especially with kids in the picture, to somehow put things back on track. But of course all things are often far from equal.
Still, it seems like you have to start with two essential questions: First, do I want to save this marriage? Second, am I willing to take steps and make changes to save it? Unless both parties can give an unreserved yes to each of these questions, it's hard to see how it can happen.
Even with that, some things are deal-breakers. Physical violence, for example. And substance abuse complicates the picture tremendously.
Hope that one way or another you get through this and end up in a happier place.
Just passed the 40-year mark myself and can attest that marriage is no easy road. Maybe it's never been harder than in the times in which we live. It helps to go into it without illusions on that score.
There's a line in War of the Roses where divorce lawyer Danny DeVito tells a prospective client that "maybe it's not natural to stay married to one person for life. My parents did it. 63 years...a few of them good." Funny but not really.
I haven't been through the ordeal of divorce, but it's probably fair to say that all things being equal, it's better, especially with kids in the picture, to somehow put things back on track. But of course all things are often far from equal.
Still, it seems like you have to start with two essential questions: First, do I want to save this marriage? Second, am I willing to take steps and make changes to save it? Unless both parties can give an unreserved yes to each of these questions, it's hard to see how it can happen.
Even with that, some things are deal-breakers. Physical violence, for example. And substance abuse complicates the picture tremendously.
Hope that one way or another you get through this and end up in a happier place.
This thread is a great example of what I'll miss about this board. Along with all the occasional utter stupidity and childish name calling - there's also a lot of wisdom on these pages. Well done, all.
Agreed. And one of the things that makes this so hard is that raising kids is such a challenge and there are no clear/easy answers. When your kid acts out, post-divorce, you are always asking yourself if this was because of the divorce or if this is just what kids do. There is a lot of guilt. All you can do is work your ass off and do the best you can.
In reading your post you say you are done, but I don't get that sense. Once you start down the divorce path there is no turning back. There is no reason to rush this. My advice is try to work on the marriage. Talk to each other, go to counseling, try to get back to whatever brought you together in the first place. If that's not working then maybe one of you moves out and test the water. Do you really want to be apart? What is it like only seeing the kids part of the time? What's it like having just the kids and no support? There are lots of things to be considered. Test the water as much as you can before you jump in.
There's nothing you've shared that indicates you need to rush into this. Take your time, leave no stone unturned. Let her know you are committed to this and you are putting 100% effort into making it work. If it works out great. If it doesn't, and you decide you really do want out, then you tell her, "I'm no longer working on maintaining this marriage I'm now working on ending it." Make it a clean break if you decide that's what you want to do. If it doesn't work you can walk away with your head held high and say you gave it everything you had. At some point in life your kids will recognize that and appreciate it.
Divorce is death and it sucks. Especially when you have children involved. I hope for you and your family you are able to work this out.
There's nothing you've shared that indicates you need to rush into this. Take your time, leave no stone unturned. Let her know you are committed to this and you are putting 100% effort into making it work. If it works out great. If it doesn't, and you decide you really do want out, then you tell her, "I'm no longer working on maintaining this marriage I'm now working on ending it." Make it a clean break if you decide that's what you want to do. If it doesn't work you can walk away with your head held high and say you gave it everything you had. At some point in life your kids will recognize that and appreciate it.
Divorce is death and it sucks. Especially when you have children involved. I hope for you and your family you are able to work this out.
I went through a divorce in 2002. My wife was in her mid 30's and mess. Had it all and lost it all. Beautiful woman, literally looked like Raquel Welch. When she died at 47, she looked like she was 60+ DUIs, illegal drugs, meds, bi polar, a wild spender, violent, et al. Not faithful too boot. I got full custody of my kids ages 11-17. You need to think first about the kids. The patterns of behavior will probably get worse. You will need much more than one DUI to really show she is a bad mom. From the brief details, you shared, if you went to court you would end up like most guys do. You need more ammo if you want to go after her. Every divorce has different circumstances. Do the kids see things arent right?
bwifan
Well-Known Member
Yes it is... very tough me living in FL and kids in PA. But my kids are older as well. 1 out of college, 1 in college, and 1 graduating high school this year. Why I didn't move back to PA. I would have had most likely to start all over career wise, house wise, etc.. and in a few years my kids would be out of school and gone anyway in their own lives. It is hard at times parenting from FL but the kids like my fiancee and coming to FL whenever they want to visit. Have to say going out to breakfast with my ex and kids along with dinner the last week has really started to heal a lot of deep scars. I wouldn't wish the pain on anyone. I lost so much weight and many sleepless nights. I have found a new woman that is incredibly caring and believes/trusts in me enough to say reach out to your ex and offer to take her out to dinner with your kids it will really help everyone. She was right, a very wise person and trusts in our relationship enough to not worry about me being around my ex. It took a long time but you do come out the other side eventually, usually battered and bruised but the sun does rise again....
I don't have a lot of advice, as I haven't been through this before, however, maybe I do since I have been with my wife for 21 years, married for 10. We had a rough patch about 10 years in, I was the one drinking to much, going out and partying and pretty much ready to walk away. We were not married at the time and did not have kids.
My wife, (girlfriend at the time) did everything she could do to keep it together and I am so very thankful that she did. Someone needed to try to keep it together. Someone has to be willing to put themselves out there and show the other how much they care, it sounds like it is up to you in this case. I don't know to what extent you guys have tried to talk it all out, but from the post, it seems like there is some communication missing. On her part of course, but you as well. I can't imagine my wife accepting a job without me knowing it, because I would be asking her about her day and knowing everything I could, even sometimes if you don't care, for instance, my wife was droning on and on about what cake to get for our daughters birthday, I don't care what shape the cat cake is, but, its important to listen.
There was a movie, (stay with me here) Ladybird that came out a few years back, I loved it, but there was a line that has stuck with me, and I try to keep it in mind with the people I love. The main character, a high school student is talking to her teacher, a nun.
“You clearly love Sacramento,” Sister Sarah Joan tells her.
Lady Bird, surprised, says, “I do?”
“You write about Sacramento so affectionately,” the nun says, “and with such care.”
“Well,” Lady Bird replies, “I was just describing it.”
“Well, it comes across as love,” Sister Sarah Joan says.
“Sure,” Lady Bird says unconvincingly. “I guess I pay attention.”
Sister Sarah Joan then has a point to make, in the form of a question.
"Dont you think maybe they are the same thing, Love and attention"
I always have to remind myself that just loving isn't enough. Even doing isn't enough, but giving myself, asking, listening, they are how you show you love someone. It is what keeps you together. ALWAYS admit when you are wrong, ALWAYS and apologize. Ask about her day, make sure you have time to yourselves, always have sex AT LEAST once a week even if you guys are tired and don't feel like it. Spend time with her instead of wasting times on stupid things like golf.
Communication is how this gets solved, or how you come to the realization that it can't be. You don't seem to know why she is doing what she is doing. That is really the part that raises an eyebrow to me. I am not saying it is your fault in anyway, but it just feels there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing that shouldn't be missing. I know others say alcoholics drink, thats what they do, and yeah, I get that, but I was drinking too much and I just wanted someone to help me stop, and my wife did. (I wasn't what I would consider an alcoholic at the time, I was like 25, living in NYC and partying a lot. But maybe thats what an alcoholic would say?)
I wish you luck and I certainly can imagine how difficult this is.
Well said. There is no such thing as a perfect marriage. Everyone has bumps along the way, but those that survive work thorough it, often several times. It’s called life. The grass is never greener, simply by bailing out in most circumstances.
Do either of you attend church, or have either of you in the past ? Highly suggest both consider attending a good one together with the kids. Many do it for the kids sake alone, but it’s often good for the marriage relationship, as well as the family. Without getting too preachy, or religious, there’s a reason many attend church/mass/worship services on Sunday’s.
Just a suggestion. Godspeed and best wishes, as you pursue the right path forward for you and your family.
p.s. as for counselors, churches often offer marriage counseling, even the pastors, or associate pastors, or simply volunteer lay people.
Just a suggestion. Godspeed and best wishes, as you pursue the right path forward for you and your family.
p.s. as for counselors, churches often offer marriage counseling, even the pastors, or associate pastors, or simply volunteer lay people.
1) Kids complicate things greatly. I swallowed a lot of things in the hopes of keeping the family together to be with my kids. Even though it didn't work out, I don't regret that. It helps to feel like you did everything possible for your kids. If we didn't have kids, she would've been told to take a hike a few years earlier.
2) I was separated for 2 years. I left the home. That was a mistake. We reconciled (only when she found out someone else wanted me). 4 years later it broke apart. Under no circumstance was I leaving the home again. Good advice from someone else above.
3) I'm in PA. I fired the first lawyer who was only interested in "winning" the financial stuff. I then hired the most notorious FEMALE attorney around to make sure I got equal custody of my kids (which I did). It's do-able in PA.
4) In '05 I bought her cell phone records. I doubt that's do-able or even legal now. It got me out of paying alimony. It was ****ing delicious pulling out those cell phone records in the alimony hearing. Don't show that side to your kids, but you're fighting for the rest of your life (or at least the next 10-15 years). Do what you gotta do. I didn't take the gloves off first, but when they came off, I was in it to win it.
Having said all of that, it sounds like you want to be with your kids (and I can certainly relate). Fight for that. Nobody can tell you when you've tried enough. YOU have to be at peace with that.
2) I was separated for 2 years. I left the home. That was a mistake. We reconciled (only when she found out someone else wanted me). 4 years later it broke apart. Under no circumstance was I leaving the home again. Good advice from someone else above.
3) I'm in PA. I fired the first lawyer who was only interested in "winning" the financial stuff. I then hired the most notorious FEMALE attorney around to make sure I got equal custody of my kids (which I did). It's do-able in PA.
4) In '05 I bought her cell phone records. I doubt that's do-able or even legal now. It got me out of paying alimony. It was ****ing delicious pulling out those cell phone records in the alimony hearing. Don't show that side to your kids, but you're fighting for the rest of your life (or at least the next 10-15 years). Do what you gotta do. I didn't take the gloves off first, but when they came off, I was in it to win it.
Having said all of that, it sounds like you want to be with your kids (and I can certainly relate). Fight for that. Nobody can tell you when you've tried enough. YOU have to be at peace with that.
One thing a guy told me years ago was that he was married, had kids, a nice house, a boat….he said his wife was crazy so he got divorced. He got remarried to another woman and he said that now he’s married to another crazy woman but now he doesn’t have his kids, his nice house, or his boat.
We negotiated EVERYTHING out of court, with the specific purpose of NOT having a huge legal fight in a small town where our kids lived. As I presented my lawyer with a handle jug of whiskey as a gift for his hard work (in addition to his fee, of course) he told me that "this was the most amicable divorce I have ever been involved in." The divorce hearing, including every custody and financial issue presented, took 15 minutes. As my lawyer famously said, "The idea here is to turn the Judge into a filing clerk. We do not let him decide anything."
I don't know either of you so I can't judge but 'she’s also way too nice to guys she shouldn’t be. She claims to have accepted a job that will lead to a very long commute 5 days a week and some travel.'. Woo, there are some red flags there. Do not ignore your intuition.
If you do decide to divorce two pieces of advice. 1) Document everything. Save every text, every email. Any of it is potential evidence in court and what seems like the smallest thing can turn out to be a big lie and turn a case in your favor. 2) Everything you say will be used against you so be careful what you say and write.
One of my best friends is going through this right now. He is an attorney and she is a stay-at-home mom. They have 4 kids under the age of 13. Like many of the stories here, alcohol was the problem (or a symptom). She would go out to the local bar and stay until closing while my friend would be at home with the kids. She would come home and act belligerent. Eventually my friend found that she had been meeting up with a guy though she never admitted to physically cheating.
When he caught her, she was apologetic and said she wanted to work things out. My friend agreed under the condition that she sign a post-nup agreement. She agreed. Fast forward a year later and she still couldn't break the urge to go out and drink/control her anger. He called it off. She didn't put up much of a fight until she realized that their reconciliation did not terminate the post-nup agreement. She gets no alimony. She does get child support but they share custody 50/50. He owns a few rental properties that are in his mother's name or a friend's name. He could have screwed her out of those if he wanted, but he agreed to a portion of the equity.
Their separation took place about 2 months ago. He sounds much happier but he does get upset about not seeing his kids as much even though he lives about 2 miles from his ex.
His wife can be a lot of fun and the type of person that can make friends with anybody but she suffers from Peter Pan Syndrome. She didn't want a career. She wanted to have kids, send those kids off to school, and spend her days going to the gym/Starbucks/shopping then going to the bar at night.
The majority of these comments seem to have the same theme..alcohol and selfishness..
When he caught her, she was apologetic and said she wanted to work things out. My friend agreed under the condition that she sign a post-nup agreement. She agreed. Fast forward a year later and she still couldn't break the urge to go out and drink/control her anger. He called it off. She didn't put up much of a fight until she realized that their reconciliation did not terminate the post-nup agreement. She gets no alimony. She does get child support but they share custody 50/50. He owns a few rental properties that are in his mother's name or a friend's name. He could have screwed her out of those if he wanted, but he agreed to a portion of the equity.
Their separation took place about 2 months ago. He sounds much happier but he does get upset about not seeing his kids as much even though he lives about 2 miles from his ex.
His wife can be a lot of fun and the type of person that can make friends with anybody but she suffers from Peter Pan Syndrome. She didn't want a career. She wanted to have kids, send those kids off to school, and spend her days going to the gym/Starbucks/shopping then going to the bar at night.
The majority of these comments seem to have the same theme..alcohol and selfishness..
one of the best written songs, ever....
Eighteen years, eighteen years
She got one of your kids, got you for eighteen years
I know somebody payin' child support for one of his kids
His baby mama car and crib is bigger than his
You will see him on TV any given Sunday
Win the Super Bowl and drive off in a Hyundai
She was supposed to buy your shorty Tyco with your money
She went to the doctor, got lipo with your money
She walkin' around lookin' like Michael with your money
Shoulda got that insured, Geico for your money
If you ain't no punk
Holla, "We want prenup! We want prenup!" (Yeah!)
It's somethin' that you need to have
'Cause when she leave yo' ass, she gon' leave with half
Eighteen years, eighteen years
And on the 18th birthday he found out it wasn't his?
I live in PA and things have changed quite a bit since the days when women were mostly housewives.
With minor kids, there are 3 parts to the process as I see it: divorce, custody and child support.
If you can work things out without too much lawyering, do that, otherwise, hire a good one. My lawyer’s office was in the county seat, so he knew everyone at the courthouse very well….might have played a part, who knows.
First of all, you will want her in that higher income job in the long run.
As someone already said, DO NOT move out of the house. It might be hard at times, but you will see more of your kids and save lots of money. Plan on the police getting called to the house….it happened 3 times for me….but nothing came of it because I didn’t do anything wrong or stupid, and the cops agreed.
Divorce: the ending of the marriage and splitting of assets, that is, assets acquired during the marriage
If you both started with nothing, this is rather easy and usually starts at 50/50 and is adjusted based on current and potential income. That’s why you want her in the higher income job....it could adjust in your favor. I think my split was something like 55/45 in her favor.
I got married later in life and had good records of what I had going into it, so all of that was excluded from the calculations.
Alimony is based on current and potential income. That’s why you want her in the higher income job….you might be the one getting alimony. A general rule is 1 year of alimony for every 3 years of marriage. I only paid alimony for 1.5 years....was married for 9.5 years.
Custody: if you want 50/50, you will get that
It is VERY DIFFICULT to prove that someone is unfit…not impossible, but very difficult. A female friend who counseled me along the way always used to say: “Unless you’re setting the kids on fire, no judge will keep you away from them.” The ex thought she could throw everything at me (drinking, smoking, etc.) and get full custody…..she cried like a baby when it was clear it was going to be 50/50.
Child Support: a calculation that is essentially based on income, although not sure if custody plays a factor since I had 50/50
My lawyer didn’t even attend the support hearing, since he said it was essentially plugging numbers into a standard formula. That’s why you want her in the higher income job….you might be the one getting child support.
Good luck and take care.
With minor kids, there are 3 parts to the process as I see it: divorce, custody and child support.
If you can work things out without too much lawyering, do that, otherwise, hire a good one. My lawyer’s office was in the county seat, so he knew everyone at the courthouse very well….might have played a part, who knows.
First of all, you will want her in that higher income job in the long run.
As someone already said, DO NOT move out of the house. It might be hard at times, but you will see more of your kids and save lots of money. Plan on the police getting called to the house….it happened 3 times for me….but nothing came of it because I didn’t do anything wrong or stupid, and the cops agreed.
Divorce: the ending of the marriage and splitting of assets, that is, assets acquired during the marriage
If you both started with nothing, this is rather easy and usually starts at 50/50 and is adjusted based on current and potential income. That’s why you want her in the higher income job....it could adjust in your favor. I think my split was something like 55/45 in her favor.
I got married later in life and had good records of what I had going into it, so all of that was excluded from the calculations.
Alimony is based on current and potential income. That’s why you want her in the higher income job….you might be the one getting alimony. A general rule is 1 year of alimony for every 3 years of marriage. I only paid alimony for 1.5 years....was married for 9.5 years.
Custody: if you want 50/50, you will get that
It is VERY DIFFICULT to prove that someone is unfit…not impossible, but very difficult. A female friend who counseled me along the way always used to say: “Unless you’re setting the kids on fire, no judge will keep you away from them.” The ex thought she could throw everything at me (drinking, smoking, etc.) and get full custody…..she cried like a baby when it was clear it was going to be 50/50.
Child Support: a calculation that is essentially based on income, although not sure if custody plays a factor since I had 50/50
My lawyer didn’t even attend the support hearing, since he said it was essentially plugging numbers into a standard formula. That’s why you want her in the higher income job….you might be the one getting child support.
Good luck and take care.
I have gone through a divorce with children. My ex wife had an affair and left me for the other man(she has since divorced 5 times). Even still I tried to reconcile until the end but it wasn't to be.
I did end up marrying a wonderful woman and I've been married to her for 18 years.
Having said that, if she hasn't been unfaithful I would stay committed to her and do everything in your power to uphold your vows. Like most of us you probably vowed "in good times AND in bad till death do us part." Well, these are the bad times you vowed to see your marriage through. It may take time but if you do your part, she will hopefully come around. If she doesn't you'll know you tried your best for your marriage and children.
Speaking of the children, from my own experience I have seen what divorce does to the kids. It breeds insecurity and teaches them that their vows don't have to be kept. They learn that it's easier to quit in everything they do because their 2 best examples in the world quit on their most important relationship. Kids raised through a divorce are also more likely to become divorced. My son has already been divorced once and he's only 25.
So that's my advice. Uphold your vows and fight like hell to keep your marriage and family intact.
I don't intend to take this conversation--a great one--in another direction but I am surprised about something.
There are a number of people talking about divorce's effect on kids. It is huge, no doubt. I'd argue living in a household with two miserable and unhappy parents is just as bad, if not worse.
Sure, give it everything you can. If you/the wife can be happy and satisfied with one another, by all means stay together. But IMO being happy/satisfied is key. If you can't see things getting to that point, get a divorce and spare the kids watching a miserable/unhappy mom and dad.
There are a number of people talking about divorce's effect on kids. It is huge, no doubt. I'd argue living in a household with two miserable and unhappy parents is just as bad, if not worse.
Sure, give it everything you can. If you/the wife can be happy and satisfied with one another, by all means stay together. But IMO being happy/satisfied is key. If you can't see things getting to that point, get a divorce and spare the kids watching a miserable/unhappy mom and dad.
I used to agree with your view, but 12 years post my divorce, and 8 years post my gf's divorce, I think the divorce has a much bigger impact on kids than parents fighting while staying together for the kids. But probably every situation is different.
Agreed. the challenge is that both parents have to share their dedication to family and kids. If they do, they'll work it out. If one parent is severely compromised, there is no other choice. But the parents have options and make decisions....the kids have no power and are caught in the middle.
I had a gal asking for my advice who fought for six months to save her marriage to a guy who was addicted to coke. One night, after he had quit, she found him snorting on the kitchen table at 3 in the morning. He threatened to kill her and their child. And that was, of course, a no brainer to leave. She had to leave to PROTECT the child. BTW, she is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life and dated several TV and sports stars. But she was kind of a lot.
Fair enough.
My experience was the opposite.
The wife and I didn't live together before marriage--father-in-law is religious, we are not. One of the biggest adjustments I had was the fact that we didn't fight or argue. I was, and to some degree still am, "waiting" for something to go wrong years later because it feels unnatural for a couple to not argue everyday. This isn't to say we shit rainbows and unicorns with no arguments, but we genuinely do get along well.
my wife has a Ph.D. in both coucelling and law. There isn't a week that goes by without her lancing a relationship boil and us having a hearty discussion. She nips it in the bud. My family hopes shit will just go away if you don't pay attention to it.
Best advice I’ve read so far. This is exactly what I did when I got divorced as I had a very similar situation. The moment I knew I hit a brick wall (July of 2006) is when I went to work and mean work! I secretively amassed as much information as possible over the next 3 years before filing. Since my ex-wife was arrogant, egotistical and foolish, believing her attorney, who basically told her that in NJ "women" never lose in family court matters, especially divorce. Every appearance, every motion I provided substantiating documentation in concise chronological order, unequivocally proving my case every single time we appeared before the judge. Initially I did warn her that this was not going to be a slam dunk and for the children's sake I pleaded with her to pursue an avenue of compromise and reasoning. In the end she lost badly as her case was riddled with lies and innuendo, a flimsy case that had no merit. Outcome you ask? Her attorney fees $16,000. My fees were $20,000 and I did 50% of the work. She was denied any part of my pension, no health benefits, no 403B, no debt reallocation and finally no alimony.
I hope my post gives the OP hope.
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I had a similar yet different problem with my family--they thought the shit would just go away, but continued to do the same things expecting a different result.
Don’t do it!
Doesn’t sound like you’ve even had an honest conversation with her about it and suddenly divorce is on the table!? In sickness and in health. Go to work on saving this. Please.
Doesn’t sound like you’ve even had an honest conversation with her about it and suddenly divorce is on the table!? In sickness and in health. Go to work on saving this. Please.
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