Does Tom Brands make his wrestlers better?
- Thread starter dolecda
- Start date
I was about to post a few stats on "Does Tom Brands make his wrestlers better?" only to find that the topic was locked.
Oh well, here goes anyway.
I thought it would be interesting to see how several prominent Hawkeye alumni have performed at NCAAs throughout their careers. Perhaps this will give insight into improvement or lack thereof.
Caveat: I offer these numbers without comparable stats from other coaches. TIFWiW
Lee - 1, 1, 1, 6
Murin - R12, R12, R12, 6
Warner - 7, 4, 2, 5
Cassioppi - 3, 7, 4
DeSanto - R12*, 5, 3, 3 (*At Drexel)
Eierman - 5*, 4*, 3*, 2, NQ (* at Missouri)
Young - 5, 7, NQ
Marinelli - 6, 7, R12, 5
Kemerer - 3, 4, 2, 4
Lugo - R12*, NQ*, 8 (* at Edenbough)
Wilke - R12, R12, NQ, X* (*Inj or beat out by Assad?)
Stoll - inj, inj, 5, R12
Sorensen - 4, 2, 3, 5
Gilman - 4, 3, 3
Clark - 5, 2, 2, 1
Brooks - R12, 8, 4
Dzeiwa - NQ, NQ, NQ
Moore - NQ, NQ, NQ
Evans - NQ, 6, 6, 6
Telford - 5, 3, 4, 5
Ramos - R12, 3, 2, 1
St John - 4, 2, 1, 5
Lofthouse - NQ, 7, 5, NQ
Thoughts?
If you're not interested in the topic, butt out.
Oh well, here goes anyway.
I thought it would be interesting to see how several prominent Hawkeye alumni have performed at NCAAs throughout their careers. Perhaps this will give insight into improvement or lack thereof.
Caveat: I offer these numbers without comparable stats from other coaches. TIFWiW
Lee - 1, 1, 1, 6
Murin - R12, R12, R12, 6
Warner - 7, 4, 2, 5
Cassioppi - 3, 7, 4
DeSanto - R12*, 5, 3, 3 (*At Drexel)
Eierman - 5*, 4*, 3*, 2, NQ (* at Missouri)
Young - 5, 7, NQ
Marinelli - 6, 7, R12, 5
Kemerer - 3, 4, 2, 4
Lugo - R12*, NQ*, 8 (* at Edenbough)
Wilke - R12, R12, NQ, X* (*Inj or beat out by Assad?)
Stoll - inj, inj, 5, R12
Sorensen - 4, 2, 3, 5
Gilman - 4, 3, 3
Clark - 5, 2, 2, 1
Brooks - R12, 8, 4
Dzeiwa - NQ, NQ, NQ
Moore - NQ, NQ, NQ
Evans - NQ, 6, 6, 6
Telford - 5, 3, 4, 5
Ramos - R12, 3, 2, 1
St John - 4, 2, 1, 5
Lofthouse - NQ, 7, 5, NQ
Thoughts?
If you're not interested in the topic, butt out.
Interesting data but these things don’t happen in a vacuum. The competition changes every year, in small or large ways. So year to year comparison of results will rarely be an apples to apples.
For example, when MM knocks off KOT this weekend it won’t mean Missouri’s coaching staff performed worse than last year. It just means player 2 entered the game. 😉
For example, when MM knocks off KOT this weekend it won’t mean Missouri’s coaching staff performed worse than last year. It just means player 2 entered the game. 😉
To be more fair, you would need to include more high performers such as Metcalf and Borschel. To be very fair, you probably would need to include every single wrestler who qualified for nationals.
OK - it was easy enough to do a little copy/paste and data editing to get the jack66's data into Excel. I used only the data for the years when the guys were at Iowa. For R12, I assigned a place value of 9 and NQ I assigned a place value of 10. Then using the Excel analysis tool, I created a histogram of the data.
Here are the results:
.
The first table above shows the distribution of the places won by place ranking from first to last. This table shows they are roughly evenly distributed, although 5th, and NP (9 and 10) are the most predominant. Only 18% of the Iowa wrestlers reached the finals, (this includes the three 1st places won by Lee) and 29% of the places won were in the top 3. It also shows that 28% of the time, Iowa wrestlers did not place under Brands.
The second table shows the ranking for which places were won the most down to which ones were won the least. Again, 5th place and NP are the most common for the Iowa guys in the list and the number of guys placing 2 to 4 is roughly equal.
I'm not drawing any conclusions here, but it would be an interesting comparison if someone could post the same numbers for Penn State over the same time period.
Here are the results:
| Place | Frequency | Cumulative % |
| 1 | 6 | 7.69% |
| 2 | 8 | 17.95% |
| 3 | 9 | 29.49% |
| 4 | 9 | 41.03% |
| 5 | 11 | 55.13% |
| 6 | 6 | 62.82% |
| 7 | 5 | 69.23% |
| 8 | 2 | 71.79% |
| 9 | 11 | 85.90% |
| 10 | 11 | 100.00% |
| Place | Frequency | Cumulative % |
| 5 | 11 | 14.10% |
| 9 | 11 | 28.21% |
| 10 | 11 | 42.31% |
| 3 | 9 | 53.85% |
| 4 | 9 | 65.38% |
| 2 | 8 | 75.64% |
| 1 | 6 | 83.33% |
| 6 | 6 | 91.03% |
| 7 | 5 | 97.44% |
| 8 | 2 | 100.00% |
The first table above shows the distribution of the places won by place ranking from first to last. This table shows they are roughly evenly distributed, although 5th, and NP (9 and 10) are the most predominant. Only 18% of the Iowa wrestlers reached the finals, (this includes the three 1st places won by Lee) and 29% of the places won were in the top 3. It also shows that 28% of the time, Iowa wrestlers did not place under Brands.
The second table shows the ranking for which places were won the most down to which ones were won the least. Again, 5th place and NP are the most common for the Iowa guys in the list and the number of guys placing 2 to 4 is roughly equal.
I'm not drawing any conclusions here, but it would be an interesting comparison if someone could post the same numbers for Penn State over the same time period.
Lofthouse graduated in 2013. I don't think I missed any meaningful starters/graduates in that window. A few guys like Grothus and Carton were in and out of the lineup, but they wouldn't change the study much..
You're welcome, though, to look back before wrestling began if you like.
My original post (Does Tom Brands make his wrestlers better?) started out with ‘I am going to throw this out there. Do the Brand’s brothers make their recruits better? I have watched incoming freshmen come to Penn State under Cael’s tutelage and have seen them go from good to great.’ I wrote this post leading up to the PSU at Iowa match in 2021. What I was wondering was if anyone was seeing the same things that I thought I was observing, namely that I felt that the Iowa program was stagnating, not going in the right direction. I welcomed any and all observations, as controversial as they may been. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that this observation would reach 300+ posts and pick up steam the way it has over the last couple of weeks. I guess that I am really disappointed how off topic the discussions have gotten. In one post it was pointed out to me that I showed great restraint with minimal posts (37 I believe) over the course of 17 years of observing this forum. I now hope that some of you can now understand why?
I not only saw those same things but I started seeing them way before 2021. In fact, I was probably banned 10 or so times on HR for pointing them out through the years.
This is true; many factors can affect a wrestler's career. For me, though, 23 wrestlers, some of whose careers go back to 2011, should be enough to see a trend.
One thing that stands out to me is the final season results. Not many who graduated over the last decade had their best season as a Senior., but maybe a more comprehensive study would show that it's not as common as I suppose.
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No thank you!… You're welcome, though, to look back before wrestling began if you like.
My apologies! Wow, I must be old! I just looked it up and, indeed, Borschel and Metcalf won their titles 2010 or earlier, which was before wrestling began in 2011. 😉😀
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I'm the one who re-started your thread because of a recent post by an Iowa wrestler basically agreeing with you. I don't like thread locks. That's a lazy way to moderate a forum. Have the balls to give timeouts and bans rather than impact good posters by closing threads. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. It reflects poorly on this site.
Maybe Metcalf and Borschel can receive participation trophies, like they give to club wrestlers. Sad that they were born too early and never had a chance to wrestle when their careers were mainly before it was first introduced as a sport by pioneer Cael Sanderson in 2009.
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I just got out of HVI purgatory for that post. I will only say that my definition of homophobic and the mods definition are totally different. But it is their world, and I am just a guest in it. In penance, I will close by saying that people can choose whatever lifestyle they prefer, and I will support you 100% provided you don't push it on others. Live like you wanna live..........................
Now let's fill up an Olympic team with PSWC/NLWC members!
I forgot about that. Welcome back. I visit about four forums across the spectrum. One of them is a no holds barred free for all off topic forum. Some tough hombres live there. About the only thing you can't say is that you wish their kids dead, but I doubt even that gets you banned. probably just a verbal tongue lashing. Gotta have thick skin on the internet.
Thanks! Frankly, the ban hammer didn't really bother me. With that @ikS guy filling me in every day it was almost like the ban was worthless.
I do have to say that I detest the Current Events Board. Now the Test Board was a real free for all. Everyone understood it going in and it was good, stupid, irresponsible fun. In the off season the Test Board brought me to this site more than any other board including this one. I would be curious what no holds barred off topic board that you habitually visit as I now need a new site for that type of content.
Life goes on and change is constant. Just gotta roll with it.
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believe it or not, it's a horseracing off topic forum that I've belonged to for over 20 years. Most there are older and crusty, and don't take sh!t from anyone. The owner participates but is hands off with moderation. If you don't like it, leave! That's just the off topic forum. The other forums are strictly moderated. All that said, many members get together around the country and have a good time at meet ups the day after calling someone a Nazi. You can't take the internet seriously, and no one is as rude in person as they are online. For me, it's a different pace. I haven't bet on a horse since 1988, which is the funny thing. I just like the vibe there.
This site has been censorship happy for at least 5 years. Obviously mods can do what they want but in many cases it is dishonest and biased. But it has saved me subscription fees for a few years.
GIA has an off-topic board that is pretty much a free-for-all. Here's a link:
Off Topic
Man and Woman can not live on Hawkeyes alone. Come on in and talk politics, religion, music, movies and more. The opinions expressed in this forum are not neccesarily those of HR.com
iowa.forums.rivals.com
Does he have a sister named Eileen?I believe that is Ben Dover.
I went back yesterday and ready the 2018 NCAA championship thread on hr or gia and I'm pretty sure you brought it up during that thread as well if it wasn't you it was somebody from this board. A few Iowa fans back then were also reading the tea leaves but it fell on deaf ears as it usually does. I think many were caught up in Lee's first natty and thought things would change around I even saw a reference to superman at one point lol. It's interesting to go back and see what was being said during that time lol.
While simple stupid is a regular on GIA or HR, super duper level stupid can be witnessed on GIA or HR every post NCAA tournament through April.
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