Don’t count Franklin and this team out just yet

[cyrizzle]

I know yesterday was a very tough pill to swallow, but we’ve been up against the ropes each of the past two seasons and have responded well. There’s still a lot to play for this year (NY6 bowl is still not out of the question if we win out). Some changes need to be made, and I think CJF is aware of this. I think he is going to take a more hands on approach the rest of the season. Also, I think there was too much pressure on Trace with the whole “elite” speech Franklin made after the OSU game. Now I think we will just go out there and play football with playoffs being out of the question. Sometimes when the pressure is off, you perform better. All is not lost, and some good can still come of this season. Let’s go beat a pretty good Indiana team this week!
#WEARE

 

[Dave-97]

If we beat Indiana by 100 next week, these people will complain it wasn't 101.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

I'm pretty sure we can count them out for this year. The staff just needs to figure out how this doesn't happen again next year.

 

[OhioLion]

Also, I think there was too much pressure on Trace with the whole “elite” speech Franklin made after the OSU game.

I believe this was intended for the recruits standing above the press conference area. CJF directed that at the future, not at this year's team.
That's my opinion and others IIRC.

OL

 

[81b&w]

Also, I think there was too much pressure on Trace with the whole “elite” speech Franklin made after the OSU game. Now I think we will just go out there and play football with playoffs being out of the question. Sometimes when the pressure is off, you perform better.

Thought about this also and the team didn't seem to be having fun like they normally do, uptight?

 

[royboy]

This team could win out, including a New Years Day type bowl, which would be a good achievement from this point. Or they could drop one or two more -- I guess they'll be an underdog at the Big House. Who knows for sure at this point how the season ends up?

But I think the overall program is definitely on the right track. Championships will come.

 

[fastlax16]

They’re out of contention for the conference championship and the playoff. Ny6 is still in play and is fine but all of the bowls outside of the playoffs are exhibition games.

 

[royboy]

They’re out of contention for the conference championship and the playoff. Ny6 is still in play and is fine but all of the bowls outside of the playoffs are exhibition games.

A step down from the playoffs to be sure, but still important to players, coaches, and fans, both to win and to develop further for the next season.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I know yesterday was a very tough pill to swallow, but we’ve been up against the ropes each of the past two seasons and have responded well. There’s still a lot to play for this year (NY6 bowl is still not out of the question if we win out). Some changes need to be made, and I think CJF is aware of this. I think he is going to take a more hands on approach the rest of the season. Also, I think there was too much pressure on Trace with the whole “elite” speech Franklin made after the OSU game. Now I think we will just go out there and play football with playoffs being out of the question. Sometimes when the pressure is off, you perform better. All is not lost, and some good can still come of this season. Let’s go beat a pretty good Indiana team this week!
#WEARE

There’s a non-objective group here that just do not like Franklin. Losses are when the knives come out. I don’t know if it’s because they think there is someone out there better for the job or what.

 

[nits74]

There’s a non-objective group here that just do not like Franklin. Losses are when the knives come out. I don’t know if it’s because they think there is someone out there better for the job or what.

No doubt, but there are also those that are objective and just don't happen to be Pollyanna and think everything is so wonderful after losses like the last two, as well as some of the others. Works both ways.

 

[Greg80]

Thought about this also and the team didn't seem to be having fun like they normally do, uptight?

Could be right. I told my son when I looked at their eyes during the first drive I told him they were going to lose. Something was missing...

 

[1000_OaksLion]

No doubt, but there are also those that are objective and just don't happen to be Pollyanna and think everything is so wonderful after losses like the last two, as well as some of the others. Works both ways.

The problem is the decenters that you refer to are not objective. With the losses on both sides of the ball, a freshman kicker and a 1st year OC anyone who expected a perfect season can't be objective. This team will be fine.

 

[fastlax16]

The problem is the decenters that you refer to are not objective. With the losses on both sides of the ball, a freshman kicker and a 1st year OC anyone who expected a perfect season can't be objective. This team will be fine.

Can someone who is objective expect the team to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter? Or is that entirely unreasonable on a team with 19 starters on offense and defense who have been in the program 3 years or more?

 

[nits74]

Can someone who is objective expect the team to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter? Or is that entirely unreasonable on a team with 19 starters on offense and defense who have been in the program 3 years or more?

Thank you. And sometimes, just sometimes, maybe these sanctimonious blue sky people can be equally wrong in their assessments as the doom and gloom types.

 

[rudedude]

Can someone who is objective expect the team to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter? Or is that entirely unreasonable on a team with 19 starters on offense and defense who have been in the program 3 years or more?

19 starters on O & D? Name them please do!

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Can someone who is objective expect the team to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter? Or is that entirely unreasonable on a team with 19 starters on offense and defense who have been in the program 3 years or more?

Yes.

 

[MacNit07]

Can someone who is objective expect the team to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter? Or is that entirely unreasonable on a team with 19 starters on offense and defense who have been in the program 3 years or more?

No playmakers on D leads to late blown leads

 

[nits74]

No playmakers on D leads to late blown leads

Yes, and the ability to maybe eat up some time with at least a first down or two wouldn't hurt either.

 

[MacNit07]

No playmakers on D leads to late blown leads

Where are the geniuses who stated that Parsons was comparable to Lavar at same point in career?...Micah slowly improving but has a LONG way to go...let’s hope he gets there...we need a playmaker...

 

[fastlax16]

19 starters on O & D? Name them please do!

Based on the depth chart released for MSU:

1) Juwan Johnson RS JR
2) Ryan Bates RS JR
3) Michal Menet RS SO
4) Connor McGovern JR
5) Will Fries RS SO
6) Brandon Polk RS JR
7) Trace RS SR
8) Miles Sanders JR
9) Shareef Miller RS JR
10) Kevin Givens RS JR
11)Robert Windsor RS JR
12) Koa Farmer RS SR
13) Jan Johnson RS JR
14) Cam Brown JR
15) Amani Oruwariye RS SR
16) Garrett Taylor RS JR
17) Nick Scott RS SR
18) John Reid RS JR
19) Steven Gonzalez RS JR

True underclassmen listed as started for MSU were Hamler RS SO, Freiermuth FR and YGM SO.

 

[rudedude]

Based on the depth chart released for MSU:

1) Juwan Johnson RS JR
2) Ryan Bates RS JR
3) Michal Menet RS SO
4) Connor McGovern JR
5) Will Fries RS SO
6) Brandon Polk RS JR
7) Trace RS SR
8) Miles Sanders JR
9) Shareef Miller RS JR
10) Kevin Givens RS JR
11)Robert Windsor RS JR
12) Koa Farmer RS SR
13) Jan Johnson RS JR
14) Cam Brown JR
15) Amani Oruwariye RS SR
16) Garrett Taylor RS JR
17) Nick Scott RS SR
18) John Reid RS JR
19) Steven Gonzalez RS JR

How many started last year?

 

[fastlax16]

How many started last year?

I never said 19 of them were returning starters but good on you trying to change the argument. 19 starters have been in the program for at least 3 years. 14 of them have been in the program at least 4. Using youth as an excuse is just that an excuse because they aren't young. If you want to blame the staff for inadequately preparing its depth you're the one implying it not me.

 

[rudedude]

I never said 19 of them were returning starters but good on you trying to change the argument. 19 starters have been in the program for at least 3 years. 14 of them have been in the program at least 4. Using youth as an excuse is just that an excuse because they aren't young. If you want to blame the staff for inadequately preparing its depth you're the one implying it not me.

I am not using youth at all, just citing a fact that only about 9 of the 19 started last year. Inexperience in playing a bigger percentage of games is huge. We lost Hamilton, Gesicki, and Barkley on offense. That is 42 TDs that are not there now. The problem is talent on the WR this year. No reliable route runners or field stretchers with the exception of Hamler. The offense is the huge issue this year. Trace has fewer weapons. So I don’t think it’s how many years you have been in the program, to me it’s a talent issue.

 

[fastlax16]

I am not using youth at all, just citing a fact that only about 9 of the 19 started last year. Inexperience in playing a bigger percentage of games is huge. We lost Hamilton, Gesicki, and Barkley on offense. That is 42 TDs that are not there now. The problem is talent on th WR this year. No reliable route runners or field stretchers with the exception of Hamler. The offense is the huge issue this year. Trace has fewer weapons.

So the only wide receiver that is reliable is actually the least experienced. Hmm.

 

[rudedude]

So the only wide receiver that is reliable is actually the least experienced. Hmm.

Yeah because he has speed. Johnson only had one TD last year and Thompkins had three. They both have one each this year so they are on par with their production this year. Shorter may make a difference, but who knows since he had not played.

 

[fastlax16]

Yeah because he has speed. Johnson only had one TD last year and Thompkins had three. They both have one each this year so they are on par with their production this year. Shorter may make a difference, but who knows since he had not played.

I don't disagree. My point was for all of the people blaming "youth" as a reason for lowering expectations. Ohio State made the playoffs a year after losing 12 starters to the draft because they developed the players behind those starters. No one in Columbus tried to use youth or lack of starting experience as an excuse. Every season there's something to blame. Last season the line was too young, this season its "youth', 2019 it will be a first year starting quarterback, 2020 it will be another first year starting qb if Tommy wins the job next season. If all else fails then the sanctions get blamed

It's just a never ending wave of excuses and every other team in college football deals with turnover and breaking in new starters at key positions every year. The team won the big ten in 2016 and won the fiesta bowl last season. It's ok to have high expectations (and lets be honest you didn't need high expectations to expect a win over this years version of Michigan State).

 

[rudedude]

I don't disagree. My point was for all of the people blaming "youth" as a reason for lowering expectations. Ohio State made the playoffs a year after losing 12 starters because they developed the players behind those starters. No one in Columbus tried to use youth or lack of starting experience as an excuse. Every season there's something to blame. Last season the line was too young this season it's "youth', 2019 it will be a first year starting quarterback, 2020 it will be another first year starting qb if Tommy wins the job next season. If all else fails then the sanctions get blamed

It's just a never ending wave of excuses and every other team in college football deals with turnover and breaking in new starters at key positions every year. The team won the big ten in 2016 and won the fiesta bowl last season. It's ok to have high expectations (and lets be honest you didn't need high expectations to expect a win over this years version of Michigan State).

I’m with you. That loss yesterday sucked big time and should not have happened but it did. Let’s see what goes forward now.

 

[fastlax16]

I’m with you. That loss yesterday sucked big time and should not have happened but it did. Let’s see what goes forward now.

One of Franklin's consistent talking points is always about maintaining momentum as a program. He's lost a lot of it over the last 3 weeks and he has a big task ahead turning it around. The schedule through the end of the season is a lot more difficult than it was after the MSU debacle last year. Gonna learn a lot about Trace and Franklin over the next month and a half.

The best part of next year's schedule is not having OSU until the second to last week (followed by Rutgers). No chance they can beat penn state twice for the third year in a row.

 

[artsandletters]

No doubt, but there are also those that are objective and just don't happen to be Pollyanna and think everything is so wonderful after losses like the last two, as well as some of the others. Works both ways.

Their expectations for this team were too high.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

There’s still a lot to play for this year (NY6 bowl is still not out of the question if we win out).
#WEARE

I don't see winning out as being possible no matter how good this team gets this year. That call on Windsor tells me something fishy is going down right now to ensure that Michigan and OSU get their big, meaningful game.

In Ann Arbor with conference refs I see the Michigan game as virtually insurmountable. I don't think Franklin has learned yet of the corruption in this league. It took JVP a while but eventually he came around, and took action.

I'd love to have someone ask Franklin at the Tuesday presser for his thoughts on the Windsor "hold" after watching it on film. Would he have the guts to call it what it was?

 

[fastlax16]

Their expectations for this team were too high.

Expecting to beat Michigan state a week after they lost to northwestern at home was too high?

 

[BobPSU92]

We have, by and large, a young team with a huge upside. Recruiting is on the upswing too. That said, it's easier to give up and root for bama.

 

[paws1957]

Can someone who is objective expect the team to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter? Or is that entirely unreasonable on a team with 19 starters on offense and defense who have been in the program 3 years or more?

I believe many of those same starters who have been with the team 3 years haven't played much either. It does make a difference....just saying

 

[BBrown]

Thought about this also and the team didn't seem to be having fun like they normally do, uptight?

I think so. I think cryizzle is correct. The intent of Franklin's post OSU game PC was for his coaches and the recruits but but he also put some players on notice for not maintaining focus and classwork and meetings. I think it may have been too much pressure and maybe should have been kept internal.
Because after MSU we aren't elite and we aren't great.

 

[BBrown]

There’s a non-objective group here that just do not like Franklin. Losses are when the knives come out. I don’t know if it’s because they think there is someone out there better for the job or what.

Thats very true.
IMO Franklin put a tremendous amount of pressure on himself and his staff and the team after the OSU PC.
If your going to come out and pound the desk and say that you better be prepared to back it up the following week.
And they didn't. It was the worst performance by the offense I've seen since 2015.

 

[BBrown]

Could be right. I told my son when I looked at their eyes during the first drive I told him they were going to lose. Something was missing...

Seriously?

 

[BBrown]

No playmakers on D leads to late blown leads

So do ZERO first downs on final possessions that would have won both the OSU and MSU games.
I know the D fell apart again at the end but IMO 80% of this is on the offense for only going something like 3-14 on 3rd downs, wasting prime field position and stupid penalties.

 

[BBrown]

How many started last year?

12-13 with some others (on OL) getting a good bit of time.

 

[BBrown]

I am not using youth at all, just citing a fact that only about 9 of the 19 started last year. Inexperience in playing a bigger percentage of games is huge. We lost Hamilton, Gesicki, and Barkley on offense. That is 42 TDs that are not there now. The problem is talent on the WR this year. No reliable route runners or field stretchers with the exception of Hamler. The offense is the huge issue this year. Trace has fewer weapons. So I don’t think it’s how many years you have been in the program, to me it’s a talent issue.

I disagree I think the problem is the use of the WR's, the passing scheme. All we seemed to do against OSU and MSU was run JJ up the sideline. NW and everyone else gave PSU a blueprint on how to beat MSU. Do you think NW has better WR's than we do? Because IMO they aren't.

 

[BBrown]

Yeah because he has speed. Johnson only had one TD last year and Thompkins had three. They both have one each this year so they are on par with their production this year. Shorter may make a difference, but who knows since he had not played.

Thompkins may have only had 3 TD's last year but at least he showed up in games and caught passes.
By my count he's been MIA in 3 games. Although they did at least attempt a few passes to him on Sat.
I went back and looked at his 2017 production through 6 games. (Now remember this is with Barkly, Hamilton and Mike G)
and he, IMO, did pretty well 16 Rec. for 190 yards as probably the 3rd option.
Now in 2018 he and JJ should be option 1 and or 2 but so far he hasn't caught a pass at all in 3 games.
his 2018 stats through the first 6 games as being that 1st or 2nd option is 6 Rec. for 111 yards.
Something is wrong.