ENOUGH! WE ARE... Better than this.

[maxxedout]

Honestly all of the people in the PSU community that were saying the NCAA overstepped are now the same people who are pining for MSU to receive a smack-down.

- Let due process take its course.
-- Nassar is headed to jail which will not be pleasant for him.
- Let the criminal justice system prosecute any administrators that were involved in a cover-up, if those people actually exist.
-- These people are NOT tried and convicted by a court of public opinion.
-- We didn't want Joe to be ousted the way he was, but it happened because of public outcry/the angry mob phenomenon. Don't be part of that lunacy.
- Maybe MSU or the FBI will run an investigation into institutional oversight at MSU for whether the reporting process was followed. I hope that they do, and I hope it is more accurate than the Freeh Report was.

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor.

Straighten up.

Success with Honor.

 

[Omar81]

The NCAA did overstep its bounds at PSU. Whatever happened at PSU with respect to the Sandusky scandal, there were absolutely no violations of NCAA rules, no student-athletes were affected (until the NCAA overstepped its bounds), and the NCAA had absolutely no jurisdiction (and the NCAA's own internal memos show they agreed). What happened at MSU involved numerous student-athletes across multiple sports, was reported by those student-athletes to their MSU coaches and/or others in the MSU administration, and pertained specifically to actions by an MSU employee in his capacity as an MSU employee. Thus, the NCAA clearly has jurisdiction in the MSU case where it did not in the Sandusky case. Your entire premise is flawed.

Straighten up yourself.

 

[Nitt1300]

We've become a bitter group, it seems.

Reveling in some one else's misery isn't what success with honor is supposed to be about, and all the excuses in the world won't change that..

 

[maxxedout]

The NCAA did overstep its bounds at PSU. Whatever happened at PSU with respect to the Sandusky scandal, there were absolutely no violations of NCAA rules, no student-athletes were affected (until the NCAA overstepped its bounds), and the NCAA had absolutely no jurisdiction (and the NCAA's own internal memos show they agreed). What happened at MSU involved numerous student-athletes across multiple sports, was reported by those student-athletes to their MSU coaches and/or others in the MSU administration, and pertained specifically to actions by an MSU employee in his capacity as an MSU employee. Thus, the NCAA clearly has jurisdiction in the MSU case where it did not in the Sandusky case. Your entire premise is flawed.

Straighten up yourself.

Then let charges be brought against those people.

DUE PROCESS. All of your information is from the media who is trying to sensationalize what's going down.

 

[GregInPitt]

Last time we checked, free thoughts and speech are still allowed in these United States.

Feel free to direct your children, if you have any.

But we here can decide for ourselves.

"let" due process...?? Are you involved in the process? Chances are that no one here is, and our opinions won't impact "due process". But we are still entitled to them....

Chill. You are not the thought police....

 

[kevina001]

If someone is a pedophile, they belong in jail.

If you listen to all of the grandstanders out there, every person that has ever come into contact with the pedophile also belongs in jail. It's nonsense. It was nonsense at Penn State, and it's nonsense at Michigan State. Stop the witch hunts.

 

[michnittlion]

We've become a bitter group, it seems.

Reveling in some one else's misery isn't what success with honor is supposed to be about, and all the excuses in the world won't change that..

Not all of us - but some. The bitterness is unfortunate.

I don't understand the bitterness given that PSU has a bright future.

 

[maxxedout]

Last time we checked, free thoughts and speech are still allowed in these United States.

Feel free to direct your children, if you have any.

But we here can decide for ourselves.

"let" due process...?? Are you involved in the process? Chances are that no one here is, and our opinions won't impact "due process". But we are still entitled to them....

Chill. You are not the thought police....

I am giving a strong opinion and obviously have no power over you.

Yawn.

 

[GregInPitt]

I am giving a strong opinion and obviously have no power over you.

Yawn.

That's the point. Your opinion is not "strong"..... And direction and opinion are two different things.....

Yawn...

 

[Connorpozlee]

I don’t think people are wanting to tear down MSU and the people involved from there independently. What PSU people want is to see a level playing field and an equal application of the the NCAA’s “standards” and media approach that was used to tear down PSU.

 

[BBrown]

I don’t think people are wanting to tear down MSU and the people involved from there independently. What PSU people want is to see a level playing field and an equal application of the the NCAA’s “standards” and media approach that was used to tear down PSU.

^^This^^

 

[ouirpsu]

Then let charges be brought against those people.

DUE PROCESS. All of your information is from the media who is trying to sensationalize what's going down.

And close to 200 actual victims!

 

[Nitt1300]

I don’t think people are wanting to tear down MSU and the people involved from there independently. What PSU people want is to see a level playing field and an equal application of the the NCAA’s “standards” and media approach that was used to tear down PSU.

So we want the media and the NCAA to get it wrong again, instead of focusing on how to prevent these kinds of creeps from victimizing their prey?

 

[fairgambit]

ENOUGH! WE ARE... Better than this.

Actually, we aren't, we just think we are. As I've aged, I've come to realize that Penn State is just like dozens of other universities across the country. We have our greatness, as in THON, and our failures, as in our Board of Trustees. We have outstanding students and poor ones, superb athletic teams and mediocre ones, distinguished alums and criminals.... just like all the rest. Every university has it's share of triumphs and tragedies, and we are no different. My years at Penn State were among the best of my life, but talk to someone from Ohio State, or Florida, or Pitt, and they will tell you the same thing. My having accepted that reality has made it easier to relate to friends and family who chose a different school and who, in looking back, are as satisfied with their decision as I am with mine.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I agree, and also would point out the hypocracy of us complaining when Pitt or another "rival" fan base uses Sandusky as a joke or put down "without regard to the children he molested" but seem to be relishing in MSU's own shitstorm.

 

[not so fast my friend]

So we want the media and the NCAA to get it wrong again, instead of focusing on how to prevent these kinds of creeps from victimizing their prey?

So is the NCAA not treating things equally? Or did they learn from their mistakes?

Simon resigned. Will she and others face criminal charges? That is for the court system and not the NCAA.

Regardless, what can "we" do to prevent, identify, and squash these tragedies from happening? Hopefully that will be the focus of all.

 

[maxxedout]

ENOUGH! WE ARE... Better than this.

Actually, we aren't, we just think we are. As I've aged, I've come to realize that Penn State is just like dozens of other universities across the country. We have our greatness, as in THON, and our failures, as in our Board of Trustees. We have outstanding students and poor ones, superb athletic teams and mediocre ones, distinguished alums and criminals.... just like all the rest. Every university has it's share of triumphs and tragedies, and we are no different. My years at Penn State were among the best of my life, but talk to someone from Ohio State, or Florida, or Pitt, and they will tell you the same thing. My having accepted that reality has made it easier to relate to friends and family who chose a different school and who are, looking back, as satisfied with their decision as I am with mine.

Reality and valuative judgement are very tricky perceptions, indeed.

What PENN STATE signifies varies from person-to-person. For some, it will be a college, others a phase of life, yet for others it is a wider breadth of experience and meaning. I think that if our mission is to make PENN STATE synonymous with Success with Honor in our own lives, then we should seek to closely approximate that with our own actions and words.

Truly, Penn State is only what we make it to be. It can be something from our past or something that we exude in the present. For those of us on this board, I would argue that to be a Penn Stater has relevance and meaning, likely because we have carved out a portion of our existence devoted to being of Penn State. For many of us in the post-Paterno era, it signifies Kantian ethics -- do the right thing for the right reason: Success With Honor.

While Success with Honor may be a tagline, a slogan -- itself meaningless, if we give it power and we bring our actions and words into line with our perception of what it SHOULD MEAN, then it has power at least in our little sphere of existence. Perhaps those tiny realms of positivity are additive, who knows...?

 

[fairgambit]

Reality and valuative judgement are very tricky perceptions, indeed.

What PENN STATE signifies varies from person-to-person. For some, it will be a college, others a phase of life, yet for others it is a wider breadth of experience and meaning. I think that if our mission is to make PENN STATE synonymous with Success with Honor in our own lives, then we should seek to closely approximate that with our own actions and words.

Truly, Penn State is only what we make it to be. It can be something from our past or something that we exude in the present. For those of us on this board, I would argue that to be a Penn Stater has relevance and meaning, likely because we have carved out a portion of our existence devoted to being of Penn State. For many of us in the post-Paterno era, it signifies Kantian ethics -- do the right thing for the right reason: Success With Honor.

While Success with Honor may be a tagline, a slogan -- itself meaningless, if we give it power and we bring our actions and words into line with our perception of what it SHOULD MEAN, then it has power at least in our little sphere of existence. Perhaps those tiny realms of positivity are additive, who knows...?

Nicely said.

 

[Connorpozlee]

So we want the media and the NCAA to get it wrong again, instead of focusing on how to prevent these kinds of creeps from victimizing their prey?

No reason both can’t be done at the same time. In the same way they grandstanded and acted out of turn without the facts of the Sandusky case and create protocol for how coaches should handle such situations in the future based off of exactly what Joe Paterno did, they can act upon MSU and try to educate people on how to be aware of these kinds of creeps.
I will add, I would doubt that anybody on here has any expectation that the NCAA or media response will even approach their response to the Sandusky case.

 

[Omar81]

And close to 200 actual victims!

Exactly. Maxxedout is entitled to his own opinion. He's not entitled to his own facts. And regardless of how he tries to spin things, it is patently untrue that "All of [my] information is from the media who is trying to sensationalize what's going down." Rather, Nassar (unlike Sandusky) entered a guilty plea. Nassar's accusers (unlike Sandusky's) number well over 100. Nassar's accusers (unlike Sandusky's) came out of hiding and expressly confronted him, in public, reciting the facts of their abuse. None of this is "from the media" and none of it is sensationalism. You (and your buddies) really need to get over yourself, maxxy.

 

[IANit]

Then let charges be brought against those people.

DUE PROCESS. All of your information is from the media who is trying to sensationalize what's going down.

Where was Lou Anna's due process for PSU?

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

So we want the media and the NCAA to get it wrong again, instead of focusing on how to prevent these kinds of creeps from victimizing their prey?

As I posted earlier, I don’t wish what happened to our community on anyone, and genuinely empathize with the vast majority of MSU stakeholders who are being dragged through the mud merely for their association with their university. However, I do not have an ounce of empathy for the likes of (former) President Simon, who chose to make political hey on the heels of the Sandusky scandal by passing judgement rather than using the information gained as a genuine teachable moment. How many more victims might have been spared if Dr. Simon had simply read/digested Jim Clemente’s report?

For her, I applaud the steady hand of karma.

 

[maxxedout]

Then let charges be brought against those people.

DUE PROCESS. All of your information is from the media who is trying to sensationalize what's going down.

Where was Lou Anna's due process for PSU?

I would prefer we not stoop to her level. That is exactly the distinction I want us to make.

 

[LineMountain]

Honestly all of the people in the PSU community that were saying the NCAA overstepped are now the same people who are pining for MSU to receive a smack-down.

- Let due process take its course.
-- Nassar is headed to jail which will not be pleasant for him.
- Let the criminal justice system prosecute any administrators that were involved in a cover-up, if those people actually exist.
-- These people are NOT tried and convicted by a court of public opinion.
-- We didn't want Joe to be ousted the way he was, but it happened because of public outcry/the angry mob phenomenon. Don't be part of that lunacy.
- Maybe MSU or the FBI will run an investigation into institutional oversight at MSU for whether the reporting process was followed. I hope that they do, and I hope it is more accurate than the Freeh Report was.

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor.

Straighten up.

Success with Honor.

Yawnnnnn. Fug off.

 

[maxxedout]

Honestly all of the people in the PSU community that were saying the NCAA overstepped are now the same people who are pining for MSU to receive a smack-down.

- Let due process take its course.
-- Nassar is headed to jail which will not be pleasant for him.
- Let the criminal justice system prosecute any administrators that were involved in a cover-up, if those people actually exist.
-- These people are NOT tried and convicted by a court of public opinion.
-- We didn't want Joe to be ousted the way he was, but it happened because of public outcry/the angry mob phenomenon. Don't be part of that lunacy.
- Maybe MSU or the FBI will run an investigation into institutional oversight at MSU for whether the reporting process was followed. I hope that they do, and I hope it is more accurate than the Freeh Report was.

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor.

Straighten up.

Success with Honor.

Yawnnnnn. Fug off.

Fine then be consistent. Media acted appropriately during the Paterno firestorm and the whole country judged us fairly... right?

 

[BBrown]

Where was Lou Anna's due process for PSU?

I'm wondering where Toxic Roxy Roxine was in all of this?
I'm assuming she was in the courtroom for the past week.

 

[jim cummings]

We've become a bitter group, it seems.

Reveling in some one else's misery isn't what success with honor is supposed to be about, and all the excuses in the world won't change that..

Misery loves company. This is an equal opportunity message board (sometimes).

 

[Art]

Honestly all of the people in the PSU community that were saying the NCAA overstepped are now the same people who are pining for MSU to receive a smack-down.

- Let due process take its course.
-- Nassar is headed to jail which will not be pleasant for him.
- Let the criminal justice system prosecute any administrators that were involved in a cover-up, if those people actually exist.
-- These people are NOT tried and convicted by a court of public opinion.
-- We didn't want Joe to be ousted the way he was, but it happened because of public outcry/the angry mob phenomenon. Don't be part of that lunacy.
- Maybe MSU or the FBI will run an investigation into institutional oversight at MSU for whether the reporting process was followed. I hope that they do, and I hope it is more accurate than the Freeh Report was.

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor.

Straighten up.

Success with Honor.

Maybe you're better than this, whatever this is, but I ain't. I hope that due process runs its course for MSU as an institution, though I'm not encouraged by what I've seen so far. But I'm more than happy to see the LouAna bitch roast on a spit.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

Honestly all of the people in the PSU community that were saying the NCAA overstepped are now the same people who are pining for MSU to receive a smack-down.

- Let due process take its course.
-- Nassar is headed to jail which will not be pleasant for him.
- Let the criminal justice system prosecute any administrators that were involved in a cover-up, if those people actually exist.
-- These people are NOT tried and convicted by a court of public opinion.
-- We didn't want Joe to be ousted the way he was, but it happened because of public outcry/the angry mob phenomenon. Don't be part of that lunacy.
- Maybe MSU or the FBI will run an investigation into institutional oversight at MSU for whether the reporting process was followed. I hope that they do, and I hope it is more accurate than the Freeh Report was.

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor.

Straighten up.

Success with Honor.

This x 1000

 

[maxxedout]

Honestly all of the people in the PSU community that were saying the NCAA overstepped are now the same people who are pining for MSU to receive a smack-down.

- Let due process take its course.
-- Nassar is headed to jail which will not be pleasant for him.
- Let the criminal justice system prosecute any administrators that were involved in a cover-up, if those people actually exist.
-- These people are NOT tried and convicted by a court of public opinion.
-- We didn't want Joe to be ousted the way he was, but it happened because of public outcry/the angry mob phenomenon. Don't be part of that lunacy.
- Maybe MSU or the FBI will run an investigation into institutional oversight at MSU for whether the reporting process was followed. I hope that they do, and I hope it is more accurate than the Freeh Report was.

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor.

Straighten up.

Success with Honor.

Maybe you're better than this, whatever this is, but I ain't. I hope that due process runs its course for MSU as an institution, though I'm not encouraged by what I've seen so far. But I'm more than happy to see the LouAna bitch roast on a spit.

It’s not like I have any particular love for her. Just don’t like the fiending for blood I’ve seen so far.

 

[krichards]

You're painting with a fairly broad brush yourself. I haven't seen too many people here calling for MSU to be torn down. Some are enjoying karma catching up with Lou Anna, and that's understandable. We have all been through a lot and we are all going to react differently. For me, I plan to never go to the MSU board and call them names. I plan to never mention this to a MSU fan or alum. I plan to never deface a MSU window sticker, should I see one (as someone did to me). I plan to remember the victims and hope against hope that something like this never happens again.

 

[psugisher]

I think it's hard to say exactly what some on here are doing.. I don't think it's reveling exactly.. maybe still looking for some measure of fairness to our own situation? Everyone that had something to do with Penn State had their "culture" judged and made out to be a sexual abuse enabler for standing up for Penn State. I know I won't be mocking any of their fans or make little girl sexual abuse jokes to anyone wearing something with Michigan State on it. There's been zero jokes about the horrible situation.

I think some here are basically saying.. see, it's not an isolated thing. It's a societal issue, not a Penn State issue, not a football issue.. the assholes that framed it as such are wrong... look at Michigan State. I feel for the Michigan State community. Nasser's a dirtball and we'll see who else may have known something so we can blame them too.. it's just too bad the Penn State situation wasn't learned from. The Clemente portion of the Paterno report really could've made a difference and saved a number of children from being victims.

We've been critiqued to death about our morality, so I think a little leeway is allowable for PSU folks to comment on the MSU situation.

 

[PSU2UNC]

I'm not fiending for blood, but I will say that if people at MSU/USAG/USOC actually knowingly enabled Nassar (which seems to be the case if you apply a "did they know or should they have known" filter), they should be charged with EWOC, FTR and/or conspiracy.

In terms of MSU, they appear to have endangered student athletes which results in their sexual assaults. I will let "due process" play out, but based on that they should absolutely be subject to NCAA discipline (although I'd like to see that in the form of HUGE university fine rather than scholarship reductions).

 

[fkkkjm]

The NCAA did overstep its bounds at PSU. Whatever happened at PSU with respect to the Sandusky scandal, there were absolutely no violations of NCAA rules, no student-athletes were affected (until the NCAA overstepped its bounds), and the NCAA had absolutely no jurisdiction (and the NCAA's own internal memos show they agreed). What happened at MSU involved numerous student-athletes across multiple sports, was reported by those student-athletes to their MSU coaches and/or others in the MSU administration, and pertained specifically to actions by an MSU employee in his capacity as an MSU employee. Thus, the NCAA clearly has jurisdiction in the MSU case where it did not in the Sandusky case. Your entire premise is flawed.

Straighten up yourself.

This is such an overplayed hands here. “Our situation was different.” Oh shutup and get a hobby

 

[rem524]

It’s not like I have any particular love for her. Just don’t like the fiending for blood I’ve seen so far.

I understand your view and I somewhat agree but there are a few individuals for whom I will feel no sympathy if karma turns ugly in their direction. I feel for the Michigan State community. We know all too well how they feel.

On "Game of Thrones", Arya Stark often recites the list of people she wants to kill in revenge. I would not mind seeing some non-lethal karma heaped upon the following:

Mark Emmert, Ed Ray, Louis Freeh, John Surma and 2011 BOT leadership, Jim Delany, Tom Corbett, Sara Ganim, ESPN, Lou Anna Simon, Jim Boeheim

I'm sure there are some that I have missed but these are the first that come to mind.

 

[PSU2UNC]

This is such an overplayed hands here. “Our situation was different.” Oh shutup and get a hobby

I have many hobbies, thanks.

But the PSU and MSU situations are HUGELY different.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Last I checked, you’re not my Mother.

 

[Omar81]

This is such an overplayed hands here. “Our situation was different.” Oh shutup and get a hobby

You're a real tough guy, aren't you?

Something tells me debating is not your hobby . . .

 

[TCFA-Nit]

All of your information is from the media who is trying to sensationalize what's going down.

1. If not for the "media" -- in this case, the Indianapolis Star -- this horror show may never been exposed in the first place.

2. The media is not sensationalizing anything. They are literally reporting what the victims are saying to Nassar, in a court of law.

 

[AvgUser]

I am burnt out on how we were so upset with the rest of the B1G but now we are becoming the same assholes we abhor..[/QUOTE
Not sure I support you on this. It would take so very little to quell the large current of discontent the still festers among many PSU alums and fans
1. Public spoken, apology from Emmert, Ray and the other NCAA clowns involved in illegally forcing sanctions upon Penn State Football for actions and cover-up that simply never occurred.
2. Public, spoken apology from Delany admitting the same
2. Public, spoken apology from Simon

That there alone would go a verrrrrrrryyyyy long way in Helping Penn Staters get past the anger they still feel

Then as a wish list, these items too:
A. Repayment of all fines extorted from the University by NCAA.
B. Repayment of all monies stolen from PSU by Big Ten
c. The long-promised visit by FactFreeh to address and answer questions from the Penn state alumni, students and faculty

Then we will continue the civil war over our own cretinous BOT. Nobody will care about the infighting outside our little Happy Valley bubble.