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Franklin statement on current events...

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You are wrong. The problem is the Mandatory arbitration system for grievances. Arbitrators are picked by the parties and want to keep working. They do not like to make hard decisions such as upholding a dismissal. They put the employee back to work without back pay and mandate anger management training. Neither management or labor is happy with the decision but neither is so upset with the decision enough to not use the same arbitrator again.

The system which allows police to go unpunished creates the frustration. People demonstrate to air their frustration. The anarchist “on both sides” fuel the mob mentality and lead the mob to destructive behavior. Frustration is felt on both sides. We are in of need counseling for cooler hears to prevail.
I think we’re talking about two different things because I don’t think the police situation is caused by the union....I think it’s caused by a group of people that go into battle with each other daily and will cover each other’s backs much like soldiers in war. With or without unions that problem would still exist.
 
I think we’re talking about two different things because I don’t think the police situation is caused by the union....I think it’s caused by a group of people that go into battle with each other daily and will cover each other’s backs much like soldiers in war. With or without unions that problem would still exist.
I worked in the field of public employe labor relations for 40 years and I strongly disagree with you.
 
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I think we’re talking about two different things because I don’t think the police situation is caused by the union....I think it’s caused by a group of people that go into battle with each other daily and will cover each other’s backs much like soldiers in war. With or without unions that problem would still exist.

cops have a tough job and we are all the first to call the police if we see an accident or an injustice. But there are bad cops and they are protected. I know cops can go into their personnel file and remove things after a couple of years (can 't remember the specific # of years but you have to retain your tax records far longer than cops retain their personnel file). This was negotiated by the union. Bad cops then get protected because when a bad cop is IDed and disciplined, the employer will get sued (the city, county, state for whatever). So the prosecutors and politicians protect them. The bottom line is that they become invincible. And prosecutors protect them because they are codependent. Later, the prosecutor will run for a judgeship or a political office and count on the police for support.

Its a mess, really. There is almost no recourse against bad cops.
 
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There is no way white people could ever handle being treated the way they treat minorities. White Americans simply don’t have the strength of spine to deal with all the subtle and systemic acts of racism that minorities have dealt with for generations.
Yep, look at the Karens that go off of the rails over not getting a refund, etc. Imagine if they had to deal with the discrimination that minorities have dealt with? They'd short-circuit themselves. I saw a clip from an old Oprah show where she separated her audience going in based on the color of their eyes. People with brown eyes were given preferential treatment while people with blue eyes were made to wait, etc. Well, those God-fearin' blue eyed white folks had a hissy fit about it. There's no way they could handle the actual racial discrimination that generations of POC have had to deal with.
 
Yep, look at the Karens that go off of the rails over not getting a refund, etc. Imagine if they had to deal with the discrimination that minorities have dealt with? They'd short-circuit themselves. I saw a clip from an old Oprah show where she separated her audience going in based on the color of their eyes. People with brown eyes were given preferential treatment while people with blue eyes were made to wait, etc. Well, those God-fearin' blue eyed white folks had a hissy fit about it. There's no way they could handle the actual racial discrimination that generations of POC have had to deal with.
You mean they might riot and loot? Oh wait, never mind.
 
There is nothing I can resolve. None of us can. I am not sure it's a solvable problem. You are correct that you cannot legislate people's attitudes and thoughts. Laws cannot change that. However, I would love to see how white people would deal with the roles being reversed. More as a social experiment than anything else.

Ignoring the racism in this country because it does not affect you either intrinsically or extrinsically doesn't mean it does not exist. And America has always been racist and will continue to be that way. I am not a fan of this POTUS but I give him credit for three things - one of them being that he has acknowledged the racist (and xenophobic) attitudes of white America and has used it to his advantage.

I will quote Kareem Abdul Jabbar who wrote about this yesterday; Racism is like dust in the air - until the sun shines on it, you can't see it.
And you still have provided no evidence that America is a racist country (other than your opinion)....you have provided evidence that there are racist people in this country which everyone knows.
 
And you still have provided no evidence that America is a racist country (other than your opinion)....you have provided evidence that there are racist people in this country which everyone knows.

Well we will have to disagree then. And perhaps I have a different set of experience on this than you do. But my opinion has the same validity as yours.

But, I would like to ask you one question - do you know of anyone who at one time or another has not made a racist/ignorant comment at any time in their life? I add ignorant to the question because I don't believe most people are smart enough to be racist, more likely they are simply ignorant. Real racism takes more intellect than most people have.

By the way, I did see a list on line that had the US as the 9th most racist country - so, at least there is that - the US is not #1.
 
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Well we will have to disagree then. And perhaps I have a different set of experience on this than you do. But my opinion has the same validity as yours.
It doesn’t matter what your experiences are...unless you can point to specific laws that support and promote racism in this country, then it is not a racist country. There are plenty of laws on the books to make sure racism is illegal, which is exactly the opposite of what a racist country would do.
 
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There is nothing I can resolve. None of us can. I am not sure it's a solvable problem. You are correct that you cannot legislate people's attitudes and thoughts. Laws cannot change that. However, I would love to see how white people would deal with the roles being reversed. More as a social experiment than anything else.

Ignoring the racism in this country because it does not affect you either intrinsically or extrinsically doesn't mean it does not exist. And America has always been racist and will continue to be that way. I am not a fan of this POTUS but I give him credit for three things - one of them being that he has acknowledged the racist (and xenophobic) attitudes of white America and has used it to his advantage.

I will quote Kareem Abdul Jabbar who wrote about this yesterday; Racism is like dust in the air - until the sun shines on it, you can't see it.
A few racist people don't make the entire country or all white people racist. IMO accusations like that make MORE people racist.

The overwhelming majority of white people are appalled by what happened. Turning the anger back at those same people by looting, destroying property, and killing innocent individuals just stoked racism.
 
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It doesn’t matter what your experiences are...unless you can point to specific laws that support and promote racism in this country, then it is not a racist country. There are plenty of laws on the books to make sure racism is illegal, which is exactly the opposite of what a racist country would do.
so you define the argument? I don't think so

racism isn't in the law, it's in the heart and if it walks like a duck, it's a duck
 
2 of the officers didn't actually stand by. They assited.


FWIW, it appears the other 3 officers are All minorities... 1 Hispanic, 1 Asian and 1 black

so my gut feeling is the cop is just an epic dickhead who should have been removed from the job due to his previous actions (he didn’t discriminate in his dickhead actions as he had complaints filed against him by white people previously)
 
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FWIW, it appears the other 3 officers are All minorities... 1 Hispanic, 1 Asian and 1 black

so my gut feeling is the cop is just an epic dickhead who should have been removed from the job due to his previous actions (he didn’t discriminate in his dickhead actions as he had complaints filed against him by white people previously)
So apparently being a dickhead crosses all racial boundaries. All four were dickheads, doesn’t mean they were racists.
 
..or, it can mean that you can be a minority and still be racist.
These 2 that were arrested are college students. Note the white girl smiling and photo bombing as they let her car pass in the beginning.

 
FWIW, it appears the other 3 officers are All minorities... 1 Hispanic, 1 Asian and 1 black

so my gut feeling is the cop is just an epic dickhead who should have been removed from the job due to his previous actions (he didn’t discriminate in his dickhead actions as he had complaints filed against him by white people previously)
The bigger issue is WHY. Why did 3 cops think this was ok and not take him off of the man? Why did a 19 year veteran do this and think it was ok to do? I have yet to see one cop say that is the proper way to handle the situation. In fact everything I have seen and read said that is not what any officer is trained to do, yet the 3 didn't blink when it occurred regardless of race. Was he senior to them and they were afraid to speak out...I don't know.

IMO, that is what people are talking about the the systemic issues facing the police force. These cops had to know in the back of their heads that what they were doing to the man wasn't right, but if you get away with it for 19 years....you normalize it. It has become normalized to at least a percentage of the police force and however small that percentage may be....you cannot have it anymore. It needs to be done away with and the only way to do it is from the inside out...cops have to really start patrolling their own. Last night there was a great shot of a female cop chasing down another male cop after he tossed a protester down. We will need many more like her.

The sad part about that is just like the mafia....snitches get stitches or blackballed for speaking up. When I hear about the systemic racial issue, that is what I tend to think of. Back room look the other way scenarios. Certain people are treated differently than others by some cops. If that was a younger white male wearing a polo shirt and driving a Range Rover....do they sit on his neck for that long? Maybe they do, but how many grown responsible black men have said this is real and it keeps occurring for others to believe there is some bias involved. Even if not intentional....it seems to exist.
 
These 2 that were arrested are college students. Note the white girl smiling and photo bombing as they let her car pass in the beginning.


So when the police tell you to get out of the car and you refuse and you even start driving forward, the only option is for the police to say, “Please get out of the car.”
 
So when the police tell you to get out of the car and you refuse and you even start driving forward, the only option is for the police to say, “Please get out of the car.”
I guess they should have smiled and waved at the cops and they would have been ok.
 
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So when the police tell you to get out of the car and you refuse and you even start driving forward, the only option is for the police to say, “Please get out of the car.”
Yeah, that ones pretty easy to avoid....get out of the f**king car.
 
Yeah, that ones pretty easy to avoid....get out of the f**king car.
The new thing over the last couple of years is to let those who are fleeing the police in a car go, to avoid high-speed chases, because there have been too many deadly accidents.
 
The new thing over the last couple of years is to let those who are fleeing the police in a car go, to avoid high-speed chases, because there have been too many deadly accidents.
Yeah, if people really want these situations to get better, both sides have to make an effort. Cops need to show more restraint but suspects need to reward that restraint and do what they’re asked immediately, not try to take advantage of the restraint.
 
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