Gable Steveson saga

[El-Jefe]

I'm not high on Gable as a football prospect. Doesn't have a natural position due to his size. Too big and slow to play linebacker (not to mention zero football instinct which is so crucial for modern linebacker), too small to play the interior and likely not enough length to play at edge.

No problem with him getting a camp invite on the off chance he's an insane outlier though. Zero risk there. If he makes the practice squad, that would be a huge accomplishment.

He's the same height and within 5 lb of Aaron Donald's draft weight. It's not size. It's years (probably a decade or more) of not training in the sport, and possibly other athletic measurables.

IDK if he ever played football. If he ever did, it was not after his JR year of HS -- fall 2016 would be the absolute most recent possibility.

Agreed that it's low likelihood. Best case scenario is he makes the practice squad and buys himself a year to learn the sport. Especially with a team as good as Buffalo.

 

[El-Jefe]

On Intermat, they were picking top 5 heavies of all time. Most had Gable 1 or 2 with Snyder. I'm sorry, I don't think either sniffs Haselrig or Baumgartner or the really big boys back in the day. Gable and Snyder maybe bottom half of top 10 all time. 6-8-ish.

Snyder and Steveson were both Olympic champs while still in college.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Snyder and Steveson were both Olympic champs while still in college.

Irrelevant in a discussion about folkstyle.

 

[El-Jefe]

Irrelevant in a discussion about folkstyle.

Only if you dismiss the fact that the competition is much better at world level than at the NCAA level. Especially at NCAA HWT.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Only if you dismiss the fact that the competition is much better at world level than at the NCAA level. Especially at NCAA HWT.

Again, irrelevant to a folkstyle discussion. Almost two different sports. We'll just agree to disagree.

Gable is a great athlete and great folkstyle wrestler, but I guess I'm one of those people that looks for a combo of longevity and success to anoint someone as an all time great. He just doesn't meet my standard. He may yours. I'm good with that.

 

[El-Jefe]

On Intermat, they were picking top 5 heavies of all time. Most had Gable 1 or 2 with Snyder. I'm sorry, I don't think either sniffs Haselrig or Baumgartner or the really big boys back in the day. Gable and Snyder maybe bottom half of top 10 all time. 6-8-ish.

Baumgartner twice got pinned in the NCAA finals.

 

[mcpat]

If I’m calling someone one of the greatest all time, they’d better be a consensus top 10 al-time.

I just don’t see a 2x Champ / 2x finalist with 13 career falls being ahead of any of the seven 4x champs, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Taylor, Lee, Uetake, D Gable, Hodge, Kemp, M Schultz, Banach, and maybe others.

Or maybe I just need another hard seltzer.

 

[Pennstate1985]

If I’m calling someone one of the greatest all time, they’d better be a consensus top 10 al-time.

I just don’t see a 2x Champ / 2x finalist with 13 career falls being ahead of any of the seven 4x champs, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Taylor, Lee, Uetake, D Gable, Hodge, Kemp, M Schultz, Banach, and maybe others.

Or maybe I just need another hard seltzer.

Hard seltzer? Can you let your husband post for awhile ma'am?

 

[Sleepylion]

He was dominated by Cassar. IMO, Ruth and AB were more dominant. Among many. I don’t get the man crush for Stevenson. He was a great wrestler, but putting him on Mount Rushmore is insane.

Both matches were 4-3 wins for Cassar. I would not say Cassar dominated either match.
Both were considered at the time (and by many still are) upset wins.

Many of Gable's wins looked like he took it easy on guys at the end (my opinion is his matches with Greg Kerkvliet show this), like he did not care about bonus points as the win was not in doubt.

He is a 4x AA (3x place winner) and has 3 undefeated seasons. 72+% career bonus rate. (55% his TF year, then 73%, 87%, 82%)

There have been 80 or so people inducted to the National Wresting HOF as a Distinguished Member this century (some as coaches). Outside of the coaches, you could probably say anyone of them were one of the most (enter superlative here) wrestlers of all-time. My point to this is the pool to be "one of the" is large.

 

[Sleepylion]

If I’m calling someone one of the greatest all time, they’d better be a consensus top 10 al-time.

I just don’t see a 2x Champ / 2x finalist with 13 career falls being ahead of any of the seven 4x champs, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Taylor, Lee, Uetake, D Gable, Hodge, Kemp, M Schultz, Banach, and maybe others.

Or maybe I just need another hard seltzer.

I do not think "one of the greatest of all time" is equivalent to (it is better than) "one of the most dominant".

A GOAT has a higher standard.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I do not think "one of the greatest of all time" is equivalent to (it is better than) "one of the most dominant".

A GOAT has a higher standard.

I agree with that

 

[Sleepylion]

I agree with that

How could you, or anyone, not agree with me? 😉

 

[Cali_Nittany]

If I’m calling someone one of the greatest all time, they’d better be a consensus top 10 al-time.

I just don’t see a 2x Champ / 2x finalist with 13 career falls being ahead of any of the seven 4x champs, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Taylor, Lee, Uetake, D Gable, Hodge, Kemp, M Schultz, Banach, and maybe others.

Or maybe I just need another hard seltzer.

You're comparing apples to oranges since Gable didn't wrestle his senior year. Try this, who's your top 10 most dominant college wrestlers from true freshman year to true junior year. (Of course you'll have to exclude the old guys that couldn't wrestle their freshman year.)

 

[Pennstate1985]

You're comparing apples to oranges since Gable didn't wrestle his senior year. Try this, who's your top 10 most dominant college wrestlers from true freshman year to true junior year. (Of course you'll have to exclude the old guys that couldn't wrestle their freshman year.)

If you exclude old timers, then that will leave Iowa out of the conversation.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

That (finally!) rules out a 2025 heavyweight run for him.

??? Why do you say that?

A 3 year no guarantees contract is pretty standard.

He won't make it through camp. I suspect he will teasing a return to the NCAA by August.

Word is they are thinking edge rusher, no friggin way. His ideal position would be offensive guard, where balance, positional awareness, control of the opponent, and wrestling skills are all real pluses. The problem is he is waaay too small.

 

[mcpat]

You're comparing apples to oranges since Gable didn't wrestle his senior year. Try this, who's your top 10 most dominant college wrestlers from true freshman year to true junior year. (Of course you'll have to exclude the old guys that couldn't wrestle their freshman year.)

If the article said “one of the most dominant college wrestlers from true freshman year to true junior year” that would make more sense to me.

But it said one of the most dominant college wrestlers ever.

I’m not knocking him; he was awesome. But many were more dominant. I mean 13 career falls is prob not even top 500 all time.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Let’s face it, his last choice is NCAA wrestling.

Professional wrestling
MMA
Football

Surfing
Alligator wrestling
Dancing with the Stars

College wrestling

 

[District four]

guys, let’s not be obtuse. he’s absolutely one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time.

he would have finished his career with 2 losses to 1 opponent and a 3x champ with an absurdly high bonus rate for hwt if he chose to continue and he won the olympics with two years of college eligibility left. multiple bonus wins over a hodge winner and a hodge for himself too.

perfectly accurate way to portray him to a non-wrestling audience.

Would have lmfao that's typical

 

[js8793]

He's the same height and within 5 lb of Aaron Donald's draft weight. It's not size. It's years (probably a decade or more) of not training in the sport, and possibly other athletic measurables.

IDK if he ever played football. If he ever did, it was not after his JR year of HS -- fall 2016 would be the absolute most recent possibility.

Agreed that it's low likelihood. Best case scenario is he makes the practice squad and buys himself a year to learn the sport. Especially with a team as good as Buffalo.

aaron donald is one of the craziest size outliers in the history of the sport.

there’s a reason why measurables benchmarks are so important in the draft. they are very predictive of success.

his absolute ceiling imo is as a bottom of the roster rotational interior pass rusher, but that’s the top .01% outcome. i’d be pretty surprised if he ever plays a real snap.

 

[js8793]

Would have lmfao that's typical

you think parris or kerk beat him? you see what he did to parris at trials? be serious.

 

[js8793]

If the article said “one of the most dominant college wrestlers from true freshman year to true junior year” that would make more sense to me.

But it said one of the most dominant college wrestlers ever.

I’m not knocking him; he was awesome. But many were more dominant. I mean 13 career falls is prob not even top 500 all time.

you’re using a very specific definition of dominance that they aren’t using. they didn’t say one of the most prolific pinners in history. they said dominant. and he was utterly dominant. there was nobody who made him sweat for 3 years. he was bored out there.

 

[El-Jefe]

You're comparing apples to oranges since Gable didn't wrestle his senior year. Try this, who's your top 10 most dominant college wrestlers from true freshman year to true junior year. (Of course you'll have to exclude the old guys that couldn't wrestle their freshman year.)

Steveson did wrestle 4 years. He has yet to wrestle the Covid Bonus year.

 

[js8793]

Steveson did wrestle 4 years. He has yet to wrestle the Covid Bonus year.

covid doesn’t happen, he’s a 3x champ with 2 career losses and zero competitive matches after his true freshman year. he wrestled 4 full seasons guys. simply one of the greatest of all time.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Steveson did wrestle 4 years. He has yet to wrestle the Covid Bonus year.

Oops. Yes, I forgot about that. F covid.

 

[El-Jefe]

aaron donald is one of the craziest size outliers in the history of the sport.

there’s a reason why measurables benchmarks are so important in the draft. they are very predictive of success.

his absolute ceiling imo is as a bottom of the roster rotational interior pass rusher, but that’s the top .01% outcome. i’d be pretty surprised if he ever plays a real snap.

If you prefer Not All-Time Freaks, Calijah Kancey got drafted top 20 last year at 6-1/280, same size as Donald's draft weight, same height and 5 lb heavier than Steveson. Kancey was a productive college player, but nobody's confusing him for Mean Joe Greene.

We agree on the other athletic measurables. And we have no idea what they are for Steveson.

Likewise we agree on Steveson's NFL ceiling. IMO Micah Parsons would have a better shot at placing at a senior-level wrestling event than Steveson does at playing in a regular season NFL game. Certainly his wrestling background is stronger than Steveson's football background.

 

[Pennstate1985]

covid doesn’t happen, he’s a 3x champ with 2 career losses and zero competitive matches after his true freshman year. he wrestled 4 full seasons guys. simply one of the greatest of all time.

You’re right. By your definition, he’s top 30.

And by the way, he is a 2 time champ. Or did Spencer not get pinned his senior year? You know, the whole don’t count your chickens thing. You can’t make crap up to support your position .

 

[El-Jefe]

covid doesn’t happen, he’s a 3x champ with 2 career losses and zero competitive matches after his true freshman year. he wrestled 4 full seasons guys. simply one of the greatest of all time.

IIRC he had 2 close scores his SO year, against Cass (maybe the dual?) and Parris at B10s. I don't remember those matches well, want to say he controlled both and the scores were deceptively close.

But yeah, agreed on the bigger point. He was dominant for 3 years, and in an era for some really good athletic HWTs, not the statues and shaved bears of the past.

 

[Hotshoe]

The fact is, he didn't continue to wrestle. He chased money, and that's on him. 4 timers are GOAT's. Gable Steveson is not a GOAT. He left the sport of folk. That is 100% on him.

 

[PSUbluTX]

Gold medal wrestler Steveson signing with Bills

Gable Steveson, an Olympic gold medalist and one of the most dominant college wrestlers in NCAA history, is jumping to the NFL to sign with the Bills.

www.espn.com

The story is being picked up by other national media, which says he's listed as a defensive lineman. This one spares @mcpat any heartburn by not characterizing his NCAA dominance. It does mention these accolades:

"Steveson, at 21, became the youngest freestyle wrestler to win gold as a super heavyweight at the Tokyo Olympics in 2021. He then went on to win two college national titles at Minnesota in 2021 and '22, and twice was named winner of the Dan Hodge Trophy as the nation’s best college wrestler."

Bills sign Olympic gold medalist wrestler with zero prior football experience

Gable Steveson is looking to see if his gold medal skills on the wrestling mat can translate to the gridiron after signing with the Buffalo Bills.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Cali_Nittany]

The fact is, he didn't continue to wrestle. He chased money, and that's on him. 4 timers are GOAT's. Gable Steveson is not a GOAT. He left the sport of folk. That is 100% on him.

I agree he's not a GOAT.

Edit: dominant, yes

 

[WildTurk]

Staying relevant with a big gamble move. Good for him. I'm eager to watch him try for this

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

His past might come back to haunt him.

I think he'll he'll be Brock Lesnar 2.0 in regards to football.

Not Stephen Neal.

MSN

 

[neutralposition]

His past might come back to haunt him.

I think he'll he'll be Brock Lesnar 2.0 in regards to football.

Not Stephen Neal.

MSN

Can Titans OL Adam Coon be the next Stephen Neal?

 

[mcpat]

you’re using a very specific definition of dominance that they aren’t using. they didn’t say one of the most prolific pinners in history. they said dominant. and he was utterly dominant. there was nobody who made him sweat for 3 years. he was bored out there.

In a sport built on the goal of pinning your opponent, with max team points awarded for a fall and stalling called when not working for a fall, I’m opining that wrestlers referred to as the most dominant in history should have high fall totals / percentages.

 

[mcpat]

For whatever it is worth, the word from within WWE is that Gable was not getting better, and the feeling was that he wasn't applying himself. They are apparently still very high on his brother Bobby.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I fully expect Gable to be wrestling second semester. The real challenge is to convince him to go to classes again after a couple years away. That may be what is holding him back. There is easy money to be made if he goes back for his 5th year.

 

[tikk10]

I'm not getting bent out of shape over mild hyperbole in an article where college wrestling dominance, however it's defined, wasn't at all the point.

 

[mcpat]

I'm not getting bent out of shape over mild hyperbole in an article where college wrestling dominance, however it's defined, wasn't at all the point.

I’m not bent out of shape; just enjoying some informed fan arguments in the offseason.

 

[tikk10]

I’m not bent out of shape; just enjoying some informed fan arguments in the offseason.

Yeah, I get that it's just talk, and I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular. Just noting that the author is a football writer and shouldn't be faulted for failing to exhaustively work out a wrestling dominance Mount Rushmore beforehand. If, say, Flo had done so, it would be a bad take.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Yeah, I get that it's just talk, and I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular. Just noting that the author is a football writer and shouldn't be faulted for failing to exhaustively work out a wrestling dominance Mount Rushmore beforehand. If, say, Flo had done so, it would be a bad take.

If flo had done it might be a bad take, but unexpected? Bad take = click bait.