Gameplan for Vincenzo?

[STAND with PRIDE]

Lets not forget Vinny didnt exactly storm his way through the bracket in Cleveland. Marinelli is beatable,but he cant just focus on him, he still has yet to face Wick and Chance this year and they all present different styles. The winner of 165 is gonna have earned it the hard way.

 

[JohnBasedow]

got to keep in mind we don't want a slugfest. just good clean wrestling

Are you implying Marinelli did something other than good clean wrestling?

 

[minnhawkeye]

Lets not forget Vinny didnt exactly storm his way through the bracket in Cleveland. Marinelli is beatable,but he cant just focus on him, he still has yet to face Wick and Chance this year and they all present different styles. The winner of 165 is gonna have earned it the hard way.

Bull has beaten Wick 2 times this year perhaps you mean Massa.

 

[Grass]

165 is loaded, neither guy better focus on each other, or the match-up may not happen. I'd love to see a Joseph / Marinelli final. That would be fun!

Both of them are going to be in dogfights just to get to Saturday night. Cenzo knows this all too well after a few scares the previous two NCAA's. The quarters and semi's are going to be interesting.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Viv Savage has the best game plan for all events

 

[js8793]

Bull has beaten Wick 2 times this year perhaps you mean Massa.

He's beaten Wick 3x this year.

 

[RoarLions1]

Bull has beaten Wick 2 times this year perhaps you mean Massa.

Three times, but who's counting .

 

[PSUcup1]

Bull has beaten Wick 2 times this year perhaps you mean Massa.

I believe he is referring to Cenzo. However Cenzo has beaten Chance but he hasn’t faced Wick

 

[Media Fan]

Are you implying Marinelli did something other than good clean wrestling?

If clubbing the back of the head is good and clean, speaking for myself he did nothing improper.
He was much the better wrestler.


Aren’t you the person who guaranteed a result that, to be charitable, was rather wrong. Anytime any of us makes a prediction, that is “ guaranteed” there should be a $10 deposit withe the site manager. Talk is real cheap by you and by me.

 

[funkisfun12]

Cenzo has everyone RIGHT where he wants them. -- Imar

 

[WildTurk]

What are your thoughts on the brick toss by Cael? The ref stopped the match right as Bull was looking to get a takedown. No continuation of action? I need to study the new rule closer

 

[JohnBasedow]

If clubbing the back of the head is good and clean, speaking for myself he did nothing improper.
He was much the better wrestler.


Aren’t you the person who guaranteed a result that, to be charitable, was rather wrong. Anytime any of us makes a prediction, that is “ guaranteed” there should be a $10 deposit withe the site manager. Talk is real cheap by you and by me.

I didn’t guarantee, I made a prediction (spectacularly bad one by the way). If every wrong prediction resulted in $10 for the site then Rivals wouldn’t need to charge a subscription fee because they would have more cash than El chapo.

 

[Still in State College]

What are your thoughts on the brick toss by Cael? The ref stopped the match right as Bull was looking to get a takedown. No continuation of action? I need to study the new rule closer

I don't like any brick toss because it disrupts the match and can change the momentum, but if you give challenges it is something you have to live with.

 

[Still in State College]

#1 for VJ, he has to swallow his pride.

He needs to admit to himself that Bull is pretty darn good at doing Bull things, and stop trying to prove he can beat him at his own game.

Like others have said, Cenzo has more in his arsenal than double-overs and an inside trip.

Just saying sometimes this is the answer.

 

[KidTwist]

You obviously don't watch much of Marinelli. He has one of the most notorious tanks in all of college wrestling and a very high bonus rate (wouldn't be surprised if it's higher than Cenzo's honestly). The Wick matchup is weird and not indicative of Marinelli's style.

I was being to general. I watched Wick dual meet with Iowa and Wick sunk those long legs high on the Bull thighs and he rode him hard all match. Marinelli looked dead on the mat after that match. Cenzo is a very good rider. Next time get him on the mat and ride him hard and see what you get. If that doesn't work. I want Bo to cut weight and fill in for Cenzo and ball that bald Bull Hawkeye punk up in a cradle like he did to Moore!

 

[funkisfun12]

What are your thoughts on the brick toss by Cael? The ref stopped the match right as Bull was looking to get a takedown. No continuation of action? I need to study the new rule closer

The brick was tossed before the shot. There is an entire thread on HR about it. You should check it out!

 

[WildTurk]

The brick was tossed before the shot. There is an entire thread on HR about it. You should check it out!

I have done that already, thanks! Just curious thoughts here on it and the rule in general.

 

[PSUcup1]

I agree, I thought the heavy hands really set the tone and possibly threw Cenzo off a bit

Got a text from my buddy (former psu wrestler) saying this almost verbatim. The heavy hands from Marinelli early got Jospeh off his game from the start

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I will not doubt Cenzo in the NCAA because he has been there and done that, but the bull is a very tough dude and Cenzo will need a different approach. I expect that different approach to happen. Massa or Chance or Wick could win it all and few real fans would be shocked. It is a solid weight class.

 

[WildTurk]

Got a text from my buddy (former psu wrestler) saying this almost verbatim. The heavy hands from Marinelli early got Jospeh off his game from the start

I think Marinelli has always brought his heavy hands with him. Part of why he is called the Bull. The difference this time around imo is..

#1 Alex has a healthy knee
#2 Eli Stickley passing away is a huge driving force
#3 He "Let the fur fly" - Mark Ironside's constant advice.

VJ is game at nationals. Alex knows that. He has to just keep doing what he has been doing. Let it rip! Both are terrific wrestlers. Pleasure to watch them.

 

[Dogwelder]

I figured it out. Cenzo has a hard time with Marinelli for the same reason he had a hard time with IMar. Those guys have eyes that are very close together. I’m still working out how to overcome close-eyed opponents. Wish me luck!

 

[Dogwelder]

I figured it out. Cenzo has a hard time with Marinelli for the same reason he had a hard time with IMar. Those guys have eyes that are very close together. I’m still working out how to overcome close-eyed opponents. Wish me luck!

Do we think this will work?

 

[kps7987]

Just my quick 2 cents

After watching Valencia be aggressive and take it to Mark last year at Nationals I began to question if Mark could beat him. It seems the coaches game planned and came away with a strategy part of which was to not drape over but hip in when he is on the leg. I have complete confidence the coaching staff will do the same.

It has always seemed to me that VJ treats conference championships as a prep for the big dance. He doesn't give up his gameplay. He wrestles to win but I think he will come out looking very different the next match should they face each other.

I think VJ is one of the better guys on the team on his feet. It is easy for Bo and Jason to overshadow him because they are unique, high energy and inventive but the laid back, never feeling the pressure style and go with momentum style of VJ allows him to adapt quickly.

Bull beat VJ rather easy and had a great gameplay and could do it again but the match could easily be reversed to a 3-2 win for VJ with 1 takedown and good ride or hopefully a much more convincing win for VJ.

 

[RoarLions1]

What are your thoughts on the brick toss by Cael? The ref stopped the match right as Bull was looking to get a takedown. No continuation of action? I need to study the new rule closer

Here is the rule for stopping a bout;

d. If a coach would like to execute a video review challenge, the coach shall immediately throw the foam brick onto the mat away from the wrestling action. Throwing the foam brick officially signifies the coach would like to use a video review to challenge a referee's call on the mat and the request shall not be retracted. The referee will stop the match as quickly as possible, but only when no significant action is taking place, to either conduct the review or allow the third-party reviewer to conduct the review.

What I saw in real time was a stoppage by the ref when he believed there was no action. I did not see Cenzo with one ounce of counter, so he stopped on the whistle.

 

[McScoreley]

I think Marinelli has always brought his heavy hands with him. Part of why he is called the Bull. The difference this time around imo is..

#1 Alex has a healthy knee
#2 Eli Stickley passing away is a huge driving force
#3 He "Let the fur fly" - Mark Ironside's constant advice.

VJ is game at nationals. Alex knows that. He has to just keep doing what he has been doing. Let it rip! Both are terrific wrestlers. Pleasure to watch them.

Is the giant brace just precautionary at this point? I remember Spencer taking his off at Nationals and went Beastmode ... hope the Bull doesn't have a similar plan cause he looks beast mode enough already!

 

[dunkej01]

Got a text from my buddy (former psu wrestler) saying this almost verbatim. The heavy hands from Marinelli early got Jospeh off his game from the start

@Matt brown get to lorenzo stat.

 

[psualt]

I have done that already, thanks! Just curious thoughts here on it and the rule in general.

I like the rule except I think the rule should allow for continuation when a challenge occurs. One example is in many of the flash takedowns that occur the countering wrestler is immediately able to escape. It doesn’t seem correct to be able to challenge and put the guy back underneath.
In this case the brick was on the ground and they blew the whistle before he was in on the shot. If he had blown the whistle 1/2 second later I think they shouldn’t have stopped it.

 

[McScoreley]

I like the rule except I think the rule should allow for continuation when a challenge occurs. One example is in many of the flash takedowns that occur the countering wrestler is immediately able to escape. It doesn’t seem correct to be able to challenge and put the guy back underneath.
In this case the brick was on the ground and they blew the whistle before he was in on the shot. If he had blown the whistle 1/2 second later I think they shouldn’t have stopped it.

I remember (before I joined but was reading regularly) a few months back, there was discussion of how hypothetically, Bo's pin over MyMar could have been wiped out if it was determined that 2 NF points should have been awarded to MyMar and wasn't. That is honestly a chilling thought. How would you not account for continuation in that case, whether MyMar was up 2-0 or 4-0, the fact is Bo was never flat and thus pulled off the elevator headlock and flip. Could you imagine thinking you won a national title for yourself and the team and then it's changed to you're down 4-0? Though 2 things about that:

1. If there was a wrestler I think that can rebound mentally from that and still win, my pick would be Bo Nickal.
2. I truthfully don't think any referee would dare touch that. Either they'll say they meant to award nearfall but never did because they started looking for the pin or just outright say no NF should be awarded and end the match.

Regardless, I do think continuation should be allowed because wrestling is one continuous action.

 

[psualt]

I remember (before I joined but was reading regularly) a few months back, there was discussion of how hypothetically, Bo's pin over MyMar could have been wiped out if it was determined that 2 NF points should have been awarded to MyMar and wasn't. That is honestly a chilling thought. How would you not account for continuation in that case, whether MyMar was up 2-0 or 4-0, the fact is Bo was never flat and thus pulled off the elevator headlock and flip. Could you imagine thinking you won a national title for yourself and the team and then it's changed to you're down 4-0? Though 2 things about that:

1. If there was a wrestler I think that can rebound mentally from that and still win, my pick would be Bo Nickal.
2. I truthfully don't think any referee would dare touch that. Either they'll say they meant to award nearfall but never did because they started looking for the pin or just outright say no NF should be awarded and end the match.

Regardless, I do think continuation should be allowed because wrestling is one continuous action.

I agree. It seems obvious that this needs fixed. Most likely there will be a scenario such as the one outlined that will have an unintended outcome before an easy common sense fix is made. I can’t see coaches and wrestlers not in favor of such a rule.

 

[WildTurk]

Is the giant brace just precautionary at this point? I remember Spencer taking his off at Nationals and went Beastmode ... hope the Bull doesn't have a similar plan cause he looks beast mode enough already!

Marinelli is sporting a mechanical knee engineered by the Germans. Cenzo had no Chance.. Marstellar is the quiet blackhorse. 165 and 133 are loaded. Nobody is safe!

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Thank you Joe Willie Namath. Insert devil emoticon (which rivals doesn;t have any more) here.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

You obviously don't watch much of Marinelli. He has one of the most notorious tanks in all of college wrestling and a very high bonus rate (wouldn't be surprised if it's higher than Cenzo's honestly). The Wick matchup is weird and not indicative of Marinelli's style.

79% bonus rate for Joseph, 61% for Marinelli. SURPRISE!

 

[bronit]

Are we forgetting Marsteller in this mix? What if Bull draws Chance early on?

#####

Both, very strong.

 

[McScoreley]

I’m not so sure, we’ve been here before and once Miles has that kind of a lead, he will do nothing but block and circle and your typical Ref is not going penalize him for it until there’s about 30 seconds left in the third.

I'm with you, not saying he'd win but I think Bo mentally would stay tough and get aggressive (he was down 9-4 in the 2016 finals and lost by 2 ultimately) ...

Tbh, I don't blame Myles for that. In the rare case you have a lead on Bo, running like hell is not a bad strategy. Hell guys are down to Bo and just turtle up or run to prevent a more painful loss. God knows engaging him is not a good idea in any situation

Speaking of to get on topic, I thought of a good strategy. Could Bo teach Cenzo how to flip the Bull from his own back possibly for Nationals? That way, V goes double under, Bull thinks he has him dead to rights and before you know it, he's on his own back! I kid, I kid .... I am fully aware that kind of move is only pulled by Bo Nickal (and Dylan Ness)

 

[js8793]

I was being to general. I watched Wick dual meet with Iowa and Wick sunk those long legs high on the Bull thighs and he rode him hard all match. Marinelli looked dead on the mat after that match. Cenzo is a very good rider. Next time get him on the mat and ride him hard and see what you get. If that doesn't work. I want Bo to cut weight and fill in for Cenzo and ball that bald Bull Hawkeye punk up in a cradle like he did to Moore!

Wick is the only person in the country to ride Marinelli and it is specifically because of that cross body ride. You can't expect Joseph to replicate that with a spiral ride.

Wick is pretty much a one-trick pony at this point. He doesn't do much on his feet. Then he chooses top, throws in a leg, and sits there and hopes his coaches are able to get him stalling calls.

 

[js8793]

79% bonus rate for Joseph, 61% for Marinelli. SURPRISE!

Yeah, Joseph is a hammer for sure. Still an impressive bonus rate for Marinelli that doesn't lend credibility to the claim that "he doesn't do much."

To be fair to Marinelli, his bonus % is hurt by the quality of competition. His non bonus wins are Joseph, Shields, Wick 3x, White, Viruet, and Campbell. Take away the 3 Wick matches and his bonus rate is at 75%. If Joseph had to wrestle Wick 3 times his rate would be a little lower. For reference, Joseph finished with a 59% rate last season. Both guys score a lot of points, and that was my point.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

How best to adjust for an NCAA matchup with Marinelli?

I think Joseph will get another championship as long as he doesn't go body to body with Alex, like he seems to easily do against others. If Joseph settles for a couple TDs I think - sadly - he will win. He's almost impossible to take down in a normal situation, and this final, like last year's Iowa/PSU meet was somewhat Joseph putting himself in trouble.I just hope Alex is ready for Joseph's adjustment. 65 should be an exciting weight class.

 

[McScoreley]

I think Joseph will get another championship as long as he doesn't go body to body with Alex, like he seems to easily do against others. If Joseph settles for a couple TDs I think - sadly - he will win. He's almost impossible to take down in a normal situation, and this final, like last year's Iowa/PSU meet was somewhat Joseph putting himself in trouble.I just hope Alex is ready for Joseph's adjustment. 65 should be an exciting weight class.

I know you're an extremely classy guy and fantastic representative for the Iowa but come on, be a bit of a homer man! You'd of all people would get no hard feelings I feel

In reality though, I can see this final being first TD wins if Joseph goes super defensive and the first TD might be in SV! Other than the counter off VJ's desperation shot, Bull hasn't taken VJ down from anything but an upper body throw. That said - the way he set up the bear hug and trip was done so smoothly and quickly, makes me think it's not as simple as "don't go upper body with the Bull", the Bull can force it if he wants to. But first things first, both these guys have to earn their way into Saturday night! A lot of great 165 pounders who can make something happen but man oh man I want Part III of this.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

I know you're an extremely classy guy and fantastic representative for the Iowa but come on, be a bit of a homer man!

My friend, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm just speaking based on what I saw in their two matches. In both it was the attempted throw (in the first) and an almost attempted throw - actually the trip - in the second. Regardless, it'll be game on in two weeks.

 

[McScoreley]

My friend, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm just speaking based on what I saw in their two matches. In both it was the attempted throw (in the first) and an almost attempted throw - actually the trip - in the second. Regardless, it'll be game on in two weeks.

More of a joke because I think you're the only Iowa fan I've seen anywhere that is outright picking VJ over the Bull.