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Good JZ interview - over an hour [link]

As a PhD, I'm sure you know one article does not a statistic make.

I did your research for you on one recent CDC report. I can certainly pull up more as I do have access to my University's online database. You will have to let me get home as my carpool will be leaving shortly.
Here's one before I go...

Child sexual abuse is largely hidden from the adult society : An epidemiological study of adolescents’ disclosures
Abstract:
Objectives
The aim of this study was to investigate disclosure rates and disclosure patterns and to examine predictors of non-disclosure in a sample of male and female adolescents with self-reported experiences of sexual abuse.

Method
A sample of 4,339 high school seniors (2,324 girls, 2,015 boys) was examined with a questionnaire concerning sexual experiences in this study with a focus on disclosure of sexual abuse (non-contact, contact or penetrating abuse, and including peer abuse).

Results
Of the sample, 1,505 girls (65%) and 457 boys (23%) reported experience of sexual abuse.
 
Here's one before I go...

Child sexual abuse is largely hidden from the adult society : An epidemiological study of adolescents’ disclosures
Abstract:
Objectives
The aim of this study was to investigate disclosure rates and disclosure patterns and to examine predictors of non-disclosure in a sample of male and female adolescents with self-reported experiences of sexual abuse.

Method
A sample of 4,339 high school seniors (2,324 girls, 2,015 boys) was examined with a questionnaire concerning sexual experiences in this study with a focus on disclosure of sexual abuse (non-contact, contact or penetrating abuse, and including peer abuse).

Results
Of the sample, 1,505 girls (65%) and 457 boys (23%) reported experience of sexual abuse.

I would like to see those statistics if you remove non-contact abuse (while inappropriate if someone yells "Hey, nice @ss!" that's not abuse...sorry). and peer abuse (because that's an entirely different issue).
 
I would like to see those statistics if you remove non-contact abuse (while inappropriate if someone yells "Hey, nice @ss!" that's not abuse...sorry). and peer abuse (because that's an entirely different issue).

The definition of "non-contact sexual abuse" as it relates to child sexual abuse is NOT cat-calling.

From the study - Measures section:

The participants were asked if they had been exposed to any of the following against their will: (1) non-contact abuse “somebody exposed him/herself indecently towards you,” (2) contact abuse “somebody has pawed you or touched your body in an indecent way,” “you masturbated somebody else,” (3) penetrative abuse (not specifying if for example fingers or devices were used) “you have had sexual intercourse,” “you have had oral sex,” “you have had anal sex.”

Participants who had reported any of the above mentioned experiences of sexual abuse were asked to answer a question about how many times they had been exposed against their will and to describe the abuse characteristics on the first abuse occasion (participant's age, offender's age and gender, relation to the offender, victim or offender on alcohol or drugs, kinds of persuasion/pressure/force, including physical force or physical violence, used by the offender).

Results
Sexual abuse rates
Of the total sample of 2,324 girls and 2,015 boys, 65% of the girls and 23% of the boys reported some form of sexual abuse experience. Of the girls who reported experiences of sexual abuse, 10.0% reported non-contact abuse, 69.2% contact abuse without penetration and 20.8% penetrating abuse. Non-contact abuse was reported by 18.4% of the boys who reported sexual abuse, while 57.3% reported contact abuse and 24.3% penetrating abuse (Table 1). Participants with experiences of different kinds of abuse were categorized according to the most severe kind of abuse they had reported.



This is why education and advocacy is needed. Most people don't understand exactly what child sexual abuse is.
 
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I would like to see those statistics if you remove non-contact abuse (while inappropriate if someone yells "Hey, nice @ss!" that's not abuse...sorry). and peer abuse (because that's an entirely different issue).

You raise good points. A pat on the rear technically can be sexual assault, just like a grope at a crowded bar, but it's not to the level of some sexual assault. Just like if I shove you or hit you with a pipe. there can be differences.

This is an issue I do have with certain folk when they advocate, you have to get your point across but if you exaggerate you end up looking like the boy who cried wolf.

And the study she quoted, it means nothing. Kids screw around on surveys and depending how they are prompted they might but things down that wouldn't be sexual assault or abuse.

I call garbage on those numbers. And again,
I'm not saying it's not a problem, and I'm not saying it's not a serious problem.
 
The definition of "non-contact sexual abuse" as it relates to child sexual abuse is NOT cat-calling.

From the study - Measures section:

The participants were asked if they had been exposed to any of the following against their will: (1) non-contact abuse “somebody exposed him/herself indecently towards you,” (2) contact abuse “somebody has pawed you or touched your body in an indecent way,” “you masturbated somebody else,” (3) penetrative abuse (not specifying if for example fingers or devices were used) “you have had sexual intercourse,” “you have had oral sex,” “you have had anal sex.”

Participants who had reported any of the above mentioned experiences of sexual abuse were asked to answer a question about how many times they had been exposed against their will and to describe the abuse characteristics on the first abuse occasion (participant's age, offender's age and gender, relation to the offender, victim or offender on alcohol or drugs, kinds of persuasion/pressure/force, including physical force or physical violence, used by the offender).



This is why education and advocacy is needed. Most people don't understand exactly what child sexual abuse is.

Thanks for the clarification, but I stand by my point.

If a 10 year old boy moons his classmates, by your definition all of his classmates have suffered sexual abuse (of the non-contact variety). That is complete and utter B.S. and including such incidents in the dataset biases the study.
 
Thanks for the clarification, but I stand by my point.

If a 10 year old boy moons his classmates, by your definition all of his classmates have suffered sexual abuse (of the non-contact variety). That is complete and utter B.S. and including such incidents in the dataset biases the study.

You do realize that child sexual abuse is a legal term and has an age determination (location dependent), typically I have seen it defined as a 5 year discrepancy between abuser and victim - so in your scenario, it would be a 15 year old exposing his/her self to a 10 year old to rise to the level of child sex abuse.
 
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You raise good points. A pat on the rear technically can be sexual assault, just like a grope at a crowded bar, but it's not to the level of some sexual assault. Just like if I shove you or hit you with a pipe. there can be differences.

This is an issue I do have with certain folk when they advocate, you have to get your point across but if you exaggerate you end up looking like the boy who cried wolf.

And the study she quoted, it means nothing. Kids screw around on surveys and depending how they are prompted they might but things down that wouldn't be sexual assault or abuse.

I call garbage on those numbers. And again,
I'm not saying it's not a problem, and I'm not saying it's not a serious problem.

And the CDC data I quoted? Garbage also?
 
You do realize that child sexual abuse is a legal term and has an age determination (location dependent), typically I have seen it defined as a 5 year discrepancy between abuser and victim - so in your scenario, it would be a 15 year old exposing his/her self to a 10 year old to rise to the level of child sex abuse.

How about if a 10 year old drops his pants at recess. Are all of the first graders (5 year olds) now victims? Get real.
 
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And the CDC data I quoted? Garbage also?
The way you are using them? Yes, garbage.

That study, for those who didn't read it, presents data from seven third world countries. Those stats have little if anything to do with the United States.

Please take your well intentioned, but poorly executed, crusade elsewhere.
 
Thanks for the clarification, but I stand by my point.

If a 10 year old boy moons his classmates, by your definition all of his classmates have suffered sexual abuse (of the non-contact variety). That is complete and utter B.S. and including such incidents in the dataset biases the study.

Yep, surveys shoudl point you in a direction, not be the total study.
 
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Please try to bully me with very clever put down like "Bumpkin." I'll put my PhD and knowledge of statistics ahead of yours any day of the week.

I do not have access to those journal via ScienceDirect (my scientific field is un-related to that field), therefore I cannot assess their viability, but even looking at the abstract shows that this does not support Roxine's assertion:

Quoting from Gorey and Leslie 1997 "adjusted for operational definitions (excluding the broadest, noncontact category) they were 14.5% and 7.2%".

What this means is that when you normalize the data you end up with 15% and 7%, which is very different from 25% and 16% (which is what she asserted).

So you feel free to keep citing papers that don't support your position. Nice work.

It seems your anonymous internet PhD has failed you yet again. I didn't support or tout any particular number (and thus "position" as you assert) and you were the one that had trouble squaring statistics derived by methods beyond just asking the kid with a general statement using the term "most", yet again showing your inability to put the research in context. However if you truly have a PhD you probably would have tried to look for any peer-reviewed open access site (there are quite a few) that publishes information like this and recognize (or your vast experience in statistics and science would have educated you) the idea that study-to-study methodologies vary and aren't always reconcilable for meta-analyses, thus producing large differences in estimates (some studies report much higher than 25%, others are reported as ranges like 11-35%). We can keep doing this all day....

P.S. 1% is too high....but of course clearly not having read any of the literature you just know its "not possible" that 25% of children are abused. Exactly what scientific research does your PhD/statistics educated mind base that on?
 
You are going against some seriously sick puppies here. I'm glad it's you instead of me because I can only take them in small doses. You do seem to have some smart
allies.
They are attacking a lady who assists victims of abuse. Again, they are attacking a lady who helps people out because they don't want to believe JS is the sick monster he is. When people say there are a group of delusional PSU fans, you can only shake your head and say....yeah I know.
 
And the CDC data I quoted? Garbage also?

Couldn't tell you, I saw an article referencing the study, not the study. If they used surveys and estimates, it's junk. You need hard data to make claims, however with this problem I do believe it's almost impossible to get accurate numbers.
 
It seems your anonymous internet PhD has failed you yet again. I didn't support or tout any particular number (and thus "position" as you assert) and you were the one that had trouble squaring statistics derived by methods beyond just asking the kid with a general statement using the term "most", yet again showing your inability to put the research in context. However if you truly have a PhD you probably would have tried to look for any peer-reviewed open access site (there are quite a few) that publishes information like this and recognize (or your vast experience in statistics and science would have educated you) the idea that study-to-study methodologies vary and aren't always reconcilable for meta-analyses, thus producing large differences in estimates (some studies report much higher than 25%, others are reported as ranges like 11-35%). We can keep doing this all day....

P.S. 1% is too high....but of course clearly not having read any of the literature you just know its "not possible" that 25% of children are abused. Exactly what scientific research does your PhD/statistics educated mind base that on?

I have poked holes in all of the articles that have been cited here today.

You clearly have an agenda. I really do not, other than for people to approach these discussions rationally, which many here do not.
 
Here's one before I go...

Child sexual abuse is largely hidden from the adult society : An epidemiological study of adolescents’ disclosures

Wait, you promise "scientific studies" and then post this .... with backlinks to the University of Phoenix?? The authors from Sweden?

The previous "Scientific study" posted was from a CDC study done in Cambodia, Haiti, Kenya, Malawi, Swaziland, Tanzania, and Zimbabwe ???

What could any of this possibly have to do with CSA in the USA?
 
You do realize that child sexual abuse is a legal term and has an age determination (location dependent), typically I have seen it defined as a 5 year discrepancy between abuser and victim - so in your scenario, it would be a 15 year old exposing his/her self to a 10 year old to rise to the level of child sex abuse

Clearly, you must have verified that this is the case, legally, in Sweden, where the study happened. Also, I assume that the researchers made the legal nuances crystal clear to the kids. And then the kids each pinky swore that they would answer the questions 100% honestly, even though it would probably seem funny to many of them to make answers up.
 
Clearly, you must have verified that this is the case, legally, in Sweden, where the study happened. Also, I assume that the researchers made the legal nuances crystal clear to the kids. And then the kids each pinky swore that they would answer the questions 100% honestly, even though it would probably seem funny to many of them to make answers up.

The good news is that this "handful" of PSU fans can write off abuse in the USA just as long as Jerry goes free. Apparently sexual abuse really isn't an issue and the important thing here is getting Jerry out because that will make everything ok in this world. Who really cares how guilty he is? I mean there were no pictures or DNA, so he's clearly innocent. All of this evidence exhonerating him keeps dripping out. These victims all came out and that is how we know all of his accusers are liars. They were Pitt fans probably, that must be it. This was all a setu p to bring Joe and PSU down.

what-if-jerry-sandusky-wasnt-a-molester-what-if-the-children-were-jerry-sandusky-molestors-thumb.jpg
 
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Well said, abuse exists and just because we don't have any really hard numbers doesn't mean it's not a big problem. And attacking an advocate isn't going to unring the bell of Jerry's guilt. He still did it and deserves to rot away in prison.
 
Wait, you promise "scientific studies" and then post this .... with backlinks to the University of Phoenix?? The authors from Sweden?

The previous "Scientific study" posted was from a CDC study done in Cambodia, Haiti, Kenya, Malawi, Swaziland, Tanzania, and Zimbabwe ???

What could any of this possibly have to do with CSA in the USA?

Child sexual abuse isn't just a US problem - it's a global problem.

These are peer reviewed publications
Very useful if you are an advocate for CSA issues in Swaziland or Kenya. In the US? Probably not helpful.

See above.
 
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Clearly, you must have verified that this is the case, legally, in Sweden, where the study happened. Also, I assume that the researchers made the legal nuances crystal clear to the kids. And then the kids each pinky swore that they would answer the questions 100% honestly, even though it would probably seem funny to many of them to make answers up.

This is a peer reviewed study. Find a research library and look it up yourself. The more you bury your head in the sand thinking this doesn't happen, the more at risk kids around you are.

Children cannot protect themselves. It is our duty to keep them safe. Whether it's 1:4 or 1:20, one is too many.

Whether it's happening in Sweden or Haiti or Nebraska - ALL children deserve to be protected.
 
Oh so child sex abuse is all about the numbers for you. Well here's a number: Only 6 young men accused Sandusky before the PSU BoT threw Joe under the bus & made it clear huge lawsuits were inevitable. Of those 6 only half accused JS of an overt sex act. Does that meet your Victim count threshold?
Yes, three is a lot.
 
What an insightful response filled with well constructed arguments based on facts. I bet your parents are proud. :eek:
The fact is that Jerry is a pedophile and has around 30 accusers. You said that you couldn't even remotely call him a serial pedophile.... what planet are you from?????
 
So Houser and the Janitors came forward because of someone else? Someone who we have not heard of yet?
I don't know what prompted the janitors though their story, or versions of it, has been around for years.
 
Thanks for the clarification, but I stand by my point.

If a 10 year old boy moons his classmates, by your definition all of his classmates have suffered sexual abuse (of the non-contact variety). That is complete and utter B.S. and including such incidents in the dataset biases the study.


Dear PSU2UNC,

You may be interested in this 2005 paper, Table 2 in particular.

I located this paper within a few minutes - there are certainly dozens(?) more recent papers but again, I only searched briefly.

I have access to extensive publication/journal databases...if you wish, I would be more than happy to run any specific searches for you.

Regards,
PSUEngineerx2

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV73.pdf
 
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Yes. He has demonstrably, objectively lied multiple times in his accounts about several things and is unlikely to be the boy in the 2001 incident.

So we agree that calling Sandusky victims & accusers' statements into question is acceptable.
 
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So we agree that calling Sandusky victims & accusers' statements into question is acceptable.
Sure if you are crazy and care more about a dead HC's reputation as well as the school than you do about sexual abuse victims. Then again they did say there was a cult, we found them!!!!!
 
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