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Good JZ interview - over an hour [link]

not afraid to talk about anything.....but to read about PSU grads (apparently) who are convinced Jerry's not pedophile is fairly delusional.

i mean, the BOT railroading Spanier, Curley, Shultz, Paterno, the football program, and the entire fan base is one thing for their self-serving interests....they're giraffe legs on that story....including the NCAA, Freeh, Corbett, Delaney and countless others.

but to go as far as thinking Jerry's not a pedophile....that ever single victim is lying about every single detail.....is effin insane.

Jerry's a sick individual that, I'm guessing, has no idea that he's a sick individual.......he's where he belongs.

I am not convinced that Jerry is not a pedophile, I am just not convinced that he is. His trial was as fair as the Salem With Trials and I don't believe you can come to any conclusions based on an inherently unfair process. His court filing earlier this week lists 34 issues with his conviction and they cannot all be dismissed out of hand as none seem to be specious. If Judge Cleland is at any objective, he will look into them and there is a reasonable chance that some of them will require Cleland to void some or all of the charges and order a new trial. The State has until March 21 to respond. It will be interesting to see their response. It wouldn't surprise me to see them ask for more time.
 
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I am not convinced that Jerry is not a pedophile, I am just not convinced that he is. His trial was as fair as the Salem With Trials and I don't believe you can come to any conclusions based on an inherently unfair process. His court filing earlier this week lists 34 issues with his conviction and they cannot all be dismissed out of hand as none seem to be specious. If Judge Cleland is at any objective, he will look into them and there is a reasonable chance that some of them will require Cleland to void some or all of the charges and order a new trial. The State has until March 21 to respond. It will be interesting to see their response. It wouldn't surprise me to see them ask for more time.


umm, are you at least leaning a certain way?

I agree, his trails weren't that fair....you know what?....I really don't give a f***.

his bob costas interview was so effin sad...I really didn't need to hear anymore details after that......let alone the countless victims that told their stories illustrating Jerry's similar grooming patterns.

If Jerry Sandusky was a famous coach for a different school, i'm pretty sure you'd be convinced.
 
I am not convinced that Jerry is not a pedophile, I am just not convinced that he is. His trial was as fair as the Salem With Trials and I don't believe you can come to any conclusions based on an inherently unfair process. His court filing earlier this week lists 34 issues with his conviction and they cannot all be dismissed out of hand as none seem to be specious. If Judge Cleland is at any objective, he will look into them and there is a reasonable chance that some of them will require Cleland to void some or all of the charges and order a new trial. The State has until March 21 to respond. It will be interesting to see their response. It wouldn't surprise me to see them ask for more time.

Did the Salem Witch Trials have a taped interview with the accused in which they admitted their transgressions? I have bolded below, and repeated, Jerry Sandusky's OWN WORDS where he admits that he sought out young people for sexual needs - not "every young person...there were many that he didn't have..." hmmm wonder why he didn't finish that sentence?

Transcript of the Bob Coast Interview read at trial:

BOB COSTAS:

19:00:28:00 But isn’t what you’re just describing the classic MO of many pedophiles? And that is that they gain the trust of young people, they don’t necessarily abuse every young person. There were hundreds, if not thousands of young boys you came into contact with, but there are allegations that at least eight of them were victimized. Many people believe there are more to come. So it’s entirely possible that you could’ve helped young boy A in some way that was not objectionable while horribly taking advantage of young boy B, C, D, and E. Isn’t that possible?

JERRY SANDUSKY:

19:01:01:00 Well — you might think that. I don’t know. (LAUGHS) In terms of — my relationship with so many, many young people. I would — I would guess that there are many young people who would come forward. Many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and — and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life. And I didn’t go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I’ve helped. There are many that I didn’t have — I hardly had any contact with who I have helped in many, many ways.

So, to recap: Costas pointed out that a lot of Sandusky’s admitted behavior fell in line with what a pedophile would do. Then Sandusky laughed, and said he didn’t seek out “every” young person he’s helped for “sexual needs.”
 
umm, are you at least leaning a certain way?

I agree, his trails weren't that fair....you know what?....I really don't give a f***.

his bob costas interview was so effin sad...I really didn't need to hear anymore details after that......let alone the countless victims that told their stories illustrating Jerry's similar grooming patterns.

If Jerry Sandusky was a famous coach for a different school, i'm pretty sure you'd be convinced.

I don't think so. When I heard the Costas interview, I thought he was guilty as hell. I bought into the false Grand Jury Presentment. I felt that Jerry got what he deserved. As I learned more details over time, I had second thoughts about any conclusions from the Costas interview. Jerry denied that he was sexually attracted to young men and has consistently maintained his innocence.

I now look at things a little differently. I believe the GJP was false as MM did not witness a sexual assault in the shower. I believe that Spanier, Curley, and Schultz were charged so that they couldn't impeach MM at trial. I believe that v4's testimony was aided by suggestive questioning from Corporal Leiter. I don't believe that v9 had lunch in Beaver Stadium with Sandusky and Joe Paterno. I believe that v2 is known and that he originally said that he was not abused on several occasions.
 
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Did the Salem Witch Trials have a taped interview with the accused in which they admitted their transgressions? I have bolded below, and repeated, Jerry Sandusky's OWN WORDS where he admits that he sought out young people for sexual needs - not "every young person...there were many that he didn't have..." hmmm wonder why he didn't finish that sentence?

Transcript of the Bob Coast Interview read at trial:

BOB COSTAS:

19:00:28:00 But isn’t what you’re just describing the classic MO of many pedophiles? And that is that they gain the trust of young people, they don’t necessarily abuse every young person. There were hundreds, if not thousands of young boys you came into contact with, but there are allegations that at least eight of them were victimized. Many people believe there are more to come. So it’s entirely possible that you could’ve helped young boy A in some way that was not objectionable while horribly taking advantage of young boy B, C, D, and E. Isn’t that possible?

JERRY SANDUSKY:

19:01:01:00 Well — you might think that. I don’t know. (LAUGHS) In terms of — my relationship with so many, many young people. I would — I would guess that there are many young people who would come forward. Many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and — and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life. And I didn’t go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I’ve helped. There are many that I didn’t have — I hardly had any contact with who I have helped in many, many ways.

So, to recap: Costas pointed out that a lot of Sandusky’s admitted behavior fell in line with what a pedophile would do. Then Sandusky laughed, and said he didn’t seek out “every” young person he’s helped for “sexual needs.”

Where did he admit any transgressions?

He said that he DIDN'T go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs. I get that you are saying that he is implicitly saying that he did seek out some young people he helped for sexual needs by his nervous laugh. I don't think that is a valid assumption, especially in light of all the other facts and evidence in this case.
 
Roxine said:
Did the Salem Witch Trials have a taped interview with the accused in which they admitted their transgressions? I have bolded below, and repeated, Jerry Sandusky's OWN WORDS where he admits that he sought out young people for sexual needs - not "every young person...there were many that he didn't have..." hmmm wonder why he didn't finish that sentence?

Transcript of the Bob Coast Interview read at trial:

BOB COSTAS:

19:00:28:00 But isn’t what you’re just describing the classic MO of many pedophiles? And that is that they gain the trust of young people, they don’t necessarily abuse every young person. There were hundreds, if not thousands of young boys you came into contact with, but there are allegations that at least eight of them were victimized. Many people believe there are more to come. So it’s entirely possible that you could’ve helped young boy A in some way that was not objectionable while horribly taking advantage of young boy B, C, D, and E. Isn’t that possible?

JERRY SANDUSKY:

19:01:01:00 Well — you might think that. I don’t know. (LAUGHS) In terms of — my relationship with so many, many young people. I would — I would guess that there are many young people who would come forward. Many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and — and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life. And I didn’t go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I’ve helped. There are many that I didn’t have — I hardly had any contact with who I have helped in many, many ways.

So, to recap: Costas pointed out that a lot of Sandusky’s admitted behavior fell in line with what a pedophile would do. Then Sandusky laughed, and said he didn’t seek out “every” young person he’s helped for “sexual needs.”

Regardless of what you think of his guilt or innocence, this awkward wording is hardly the admission of guilt you think it is. The rest of his awkward interview is much more damning than this. Not sure why you are wasting your time trying to convince people that he is guilty, which doesn't help anyone. When you could be shining the spotlight on the DPW, CYS, and the second mile. These organizations approved him to adopt many times, cleared him in 1998, and ignored Penn State's call in 2001.

Also, the Salem Witch Trials occurred between February 1692 and May 1693. The earliest possible year sound could be recorded was 1877. #Facts
 
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Where did he admit any transgressions?

He said that he DIDN'T go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs. I get that you are saying that he is implicitly saying that he did seek out some young people he helped for sexual needs by his nervous laugh. I don't think that is a valid assumption, especially in light of all the other facts and evidence in this case.
Roxine is another "nuttier than squirrel shit" case.

He/She is all "about the kids" though........so it is politically incorrect to point the idiocy out
 
FWIW....one doesn't need to do all the "historical" back to the Salem Witch Trials

Jack Gatos - who is now a children's book author - has an interesting autobiography.

The title, as best I recall, is "A Hole in My Life"

It is, in many ways, a much closer analogy (or, at least, a more contemporary one) to the Sandusky Prosecution situation.

It is a quick read....for those who are interested
 
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You folks realize, don't you, that even if Judge Cleland concedes JS is right on a few points it doesn't guarantee him a new trial.
 
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45/48? Yeah, if a few convictions were tossed it would mean zero . Bupkis. Nada. Nothing .

He's where he belongs for the time he deserves .
 
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You folks realize, don't you, that even if Judge Cleland concedes JS is right on a few points it doesn't guarantee him a new trial.

I have no illusion that Cleland is going to be objective given his track record. I hope he is. If he is, I believe he will order a new trial.
 
45/48? Yeah, if a few convictions were tossed it would mean zero . Bupkis. Nada. Nothing .

He's where he belongs for the time he deserves .

If he is objective, he may toss more than a few of the convictions.
 
Lajolla somewhat flawed studies and general stats aren't a specific case. Investigators, those who handle this stuff have a way of vetting information . You know this.

If it's somewhat credible , people will get paid because you never want a trial in this situation . It's to great of a risk. Civil trial I mean .

From my understanding there are more victims they can bring to a new trial . Jerry is done . But the freaks here ? Never will be.
 
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Here is the system for PCRA in Pennsylvania:


1 - Petition the Judge who PRESIDED over your trial.

2 - Tell him HE made numerous egregious and impactful errors while overseeing your trial.

3 - Ask him to acknowledge that he f&cked up.....and ask him to affirm your request for a "do-over", hopefully with a less incompetent Judge.


Yeah....that's a real hopeful process.
So, no, Sandusky is not going to get a new trial.

The last time the PCRA petition was brought before Judge Cleland.....we do REMEMBER that, don't we....Cleland's response - I shit you not - was to say "Kathy Kane (who, of course, wasn't even in office when this all went down) must be at fault, lets pull her ass into chambers"

Laughable? Cryable? Both?

But CERTAINLY NOT surprising, given the education we have all had in the PA Judicial system over the last several years - all the way up to the PA Supreme Court with Eakin and the Boys.

__________________________

I must say, the paper-thin analysis of some is very disturbing.

If one feels - if one is 100% convinced - that Jerry Sandusky is a predator, who "got what he deserved", fine.
Great.
One should not - logically - feel compelled to have ANY sympathy whatsoever wrt Jerry Sandusky.


BUT:

To extrapolate that to simply not caring that we - ALL OF US - are subject to such a corrupted system of Judicial and Prosecutorial misconduct. To not caring about the "brown-shirt tactics" of those who are supposed to represent Justice in our society......that should just make us weep.


I mentioned the Jack Gatos autobiography earlier.

The story is a compelling, and sad, and redeeming one. Folks should read it.

The synopsis was that you have a young man who "f&cked up". He was guilty of a crime.

But, the corrupt actions of the Prosecutors AND the Judge AND (in this case) the Parole Board all conspired to ruin a young man's life.....when it was clearly uncalled for.
This is real life folks.

If not for the compassionate and selfless acts of a simple man, a small cog in the entire process, his life would have been ruined.....but, thanks to one man who exemplified decency and the willingness to lend a hand, the young man who "f&cked up" ended up living a productive, meaningful, impactful, positive life.



Do we not care?

Apparently not....if Genius-Talk like this prevails:

"I agree, his trails weren't that fair....you know what?....I really don't give a f***." PSUPALY

If so, God help us.....because he's the only one left.
 
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It's easy to throw stones when you too are anonymous. My PhD is far from worthless, but you can think that if it gives you that special feeling in your tummy.

Roxine has not yet posted a study with convincing data. Yes, they have been published, but all studies (as someone else pointed out) have their limitations (including the papers I have published). I have pointed out these limitations, specifically to show how they are not relevant to this case, and to show what are artificially inflated assault statistics.

Whenever data is presented, especially data that is derived, modeled or estimated, it is always good to do a reality check.

If 1 in 4 girls are abused before the age of 18, and many/most don't report it, then either the 1 in 4 is made up, OR the "real" numbers are 2, 3 or 4 in 4. So let's reality check that for a second. It cannot be 4 in 4, because that would mean that every girl prior to the age of 18 is abused and that is obviously false.

It is unlikely to be 3 in 4 (or even 2 in 4). Think about the number of women you know well. Think about the number of women you know who you have are survivors of abuse. Now double or triple that number (to account for underreporting and the fact that you might not be aware of it). I guarantee your percentage isn't close to 50%.

So where it the disconnect? It's in the methodology! As Roxine point out, being "flashed" even if by another minor is considered abuse. Being touched by another minor is considered abuse. Based on those criteria, I too am the victim of CSA. Except guess what...I'm not and have never identified as such.

These methodological problems are going to majorly skew the data to make it look like there is far more abuse than there actually is, or if you really want to call those acts abuse, lumping those acts in with real assaults.


I am far from anonymous. Many here know my true identity and a 30 second google search will return my blog, twitter account (top result with my name), and facebook page likely. My twitter account states my real name: John Yonchuk. Once you have that you can certainly spend about another minute to find out that my undergraduate degree is from PSU (no surprise there) in Biology (1999) and my Masters degree is from Thomas Jefferson (2008) in Clinical Pharmacology. I now work in the field of early clinical discovery in respiratory biology (again verifiable via my LinkedIn page once you have my name). Those are all verifiable facts from a simple google search.

Contrast that with YOUR handle, which when googled returns top results of a bunch of message board posts (of which this thread is #2) all under the same handle. One claims a marine science degree, but without a name its pretty hard to verify.

Repeating the same twisted logic you used previously does not help your cause. You keep ignoring the faulty logic because you keep relying on oversimplification of the concept.

The 1 in 4 number is an estimate (hint, all scientific studies are estimates, unless you measure every single person on earth), based on studies that go past the simplistic logic your high minded alleged education doesn't seem to grasp. As pointed out there are documented cases where an abuser has admitted the crime, or there is other objective proof, such as forensic evidence to indicate abuse, and the child STILL denies being abused. Other examples are cases where a child doesn't understand they have been abused, due to age or lack of sexual knowledge.

Furthermore you clearly don't understand what is being discussed based on your post above. If one says that 1/4 are abused but also that MOST who are abused don't report that simply means that something greater than 1/8th don't report (its simple math). It is incorrect to think that if we state 1/4 are abused, but most don't report than the number must be 50% (which you claim not to believe, though offer no evidence other than your opinion) because the 1/4 estimate ALREADY factored in the "most don't report" based on study of examples like the ones I cite above. As a hypothetical (simplistic) example think of it this way (all with 18 year olds about their past):

1. Study simply asks kids: were you abused, 1 out of every 9 (or 11%) children answer yes. 8 out of 9 (or 89%) say no.
2. Another study shows that 2 out of every 7 children answer no when asked "did you know someone touching your genitals is wrong/abuse.
3. Another study, using forensics to verify any answers shows that 4/18 (or 22%) kids still say no when there is definitive forensic evidence of genital penetration and matches the DNA of alleged abuser.


In this example you may estimate, based on all three studies that the true rate of abuse is approximately 1 out of 4, however based on study 1 and study 3 you could say that more kids do not report than kids who do. Study 2 would inform you of one potential reason why they don't report (they simply don't think it is abuse), among many (others are psychological and societal). There is simply no contradiction.

Class dismissed.
 
Here is the system for PCRA in Pennsylvania:


1 - Petition the Judge who PRESIDED over your trial.

2 - Tell him HE made numerous egregious and impactful errors while overseeing your trial.

3 - Ask him to acknowledge that he f&cked up.....and ask him to affirm your request for a "do-over", hopefully with a less incompetent Judge.


Yeah....that's a real hopeful process.
So, no, Sandusky is not going to get a new trial.

The last time the PCRA petition was brought before Judge Cleland.....we do REMEMBER that, don't we....Cleland's response - I shit you not - was to say "Kathy Kane (who, of course, wasn't even in office when this all went down) must be at fault, lets pull her ass into chambers"

Laughable? Cryable? Both?

But CERTAINLY NOT surprising, given the education we have all had in the PA Judicial system over the last several years - all the way up to the PA Supreme Court with Eakin and the Boys.


Remember there are OTHER courts who have reviewed Jerry's appeals. Not to mention that his PCRA filings often provide further proof (or poorly try to slant the story) of his crimes. The last version provided evidence of embezzlement and money laundering (where a victim told about how Jerry and Dr Jack gave him a fake award that just happened to be the same amount Dr Jack sold the kid a car for right after, arranged by Jerry). Still sifting through most recent one.
 
If the judge is objective he would ask for a new trial and bring all the victims forward . Then we could have 122/132 or something , waste a lot more money and have the same result .

The world isn't a fantasy quest for some delusional fans. There's other cases to try and only so much time .
 
If the judge is objective he would ask for a new trial and bring all the victims forward . Then we could have 122/132 or something , waste a lot more money and have the same result .

The world isn't a fantasy quest for some delusional fans. There's other cases to try and only so much time .

I don't believe there are any other high profile cases with the extent of prosecutorial misconduct and ex parte communications as this one. There are a lot of misdeeds to expose.
 
If the judge is objective he would ask for a new trial and bring all the victims forward . Then we could have 122/132 or something , waste a lot more money and have the same result .

The world isn't a fantasy quest for some delusional fans. There's other cases to try and only so much time .


Good one elvis. Or an "objective" judge would follow the law, which is that "weird" or "odd" things don't get you a new trial under the PCRA. You have to demonstrate that the outcome would significantly change and/or produce NEW evidence.
 
Here is the system for PCRA in Pennsylvania:


1 - Petition the Judge who PRESIDED over your trial.

2 - Tell him HE made numerous egregious and impactful errors while overseeing your trial.

3 - Ask him to acknowledge that he f&cked up.....and ask him to affirm your request for a "do-over", hopefully with a less incompetent Judge.


Yeah....that's a real hopeful process.
So, no, Sandusky is not going to get a new trial.

The last time the PCRA petition was brought before Judge Cleland.....we do REMEMBER that, don't we....Cleland's response - I shit you not - was to say "Kathy Kane (who, of course, wasn't even in office when this all went down) must be at fault, lets pull her ass into chambers"

Laughable? Cryable? Both?

But CERTAINLY NOT surprising, given the education we have all had in the PA Judicial system over the last several years - all the way up to the PA Supreme Court with Eakin and the Boys.

__________________________

I must say, the paper-thin analysis of some is very disturbing.

If one feels - if one is 100% convinced - that Jerry Sandusky is a predator, who "got what he deserved", fine.
Great.
One should not - logically - feel compelled to have ANY sympathy whatsoever wrt Jerry Sandusky.


BUT:

To extrapolate that to simply not caring that we - ALL OF US - are subject to such a corrupted system of Judicial and Prosecutorial misconduct. To not caring about the "brown-shirt tactics" of those who are supposed to represent Justice in our society......that should just make us weep.


I mentioned the Jack Gatos autobiography earlier.

The story is a compelling, and sad, and redeeming one. Folks should read it.

The synopsis was that you have a young man who "f&cked up". He was guilty of a crime.

But, the corrupt actions of the Prosecutors AND the Judge AND (in this case) the Parole Board all conspired to ruin a young man's life.....when it was clearly uncalled for.
This is real life folks.

If not for the compassionate and selfless acts of a simple man, a small cog in the entire process, his life would have been ruined.....but, thanks to one man who exemplified decency and the willingness to lend a hand, the young man who "f&cked up" ended up living a productive, meaningful, impactful, positive life.



Do we not care?

Apparently not....if Genius-Talk like this prevails:

"I agree, his trails weren't that fair....you know what?....I really don't give a f***." PSUPALY

If so, God help us.....because he's the only one left.

Your tugging at our heartstrings is using a logical fallacy. Because A then B. Because Gatos was wrongfully convicted then what of Jerry?

It may just be as simple as the fact that many of us have reviewed all of the available public evidence (and even some that's not public) and realize that the OAG skirting rules and Jerry being innocent don't equal each other. It is a well known fact that prosecutors held back many victims from the trial, and there is evidence everywhere that there are other victims who never came forward if you look hard enough.

So some of us fight for several angles. One; to make sure we do everything we can to help abused children and keep it from happening again and 2; to get to the bottom of WHY the system proceeded the way it did.
 
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Good one elvis. Or an "objective" judge would follow the law, which is that "weird" or "odd" things don't get you a new trial under the PCRA. You have to demonstrate that the outcome would significantly change and/or produce NEW evidence.

True, I doubt the weirdos have invested anywhere close to the amount of time on other cases as Jerry's. You will always find things that don't add up. It's why we have this lengthy fact finding thing called a trial. to ferret out the truth the best we can.

Jerry is where he belongs and you don't go to a new trial for the purpose of clearing PSU's name or Joe's name which is the driving force behind the Jerry was screwed crowd.
 
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"Your tugging at our heartstrings is using a logical fallacy. Because A then B. Because Gatos was wrongfully convicted then what of Jerry?

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JERRY. I do not - quite simply - know how I could have possibly been more clear about that. Alas

What it DOES have "to do with" is all of us.
I weep for our society sometimes.....I really do.


It may just be as simple as the fact that many of us have reviewed all of the available public evidence (and even some that's not public) and realize that the OAG skirting rules and Jerry being innocent don't equal each other.

Obviously not....again, I can't be any more clear about that.
I NEVER SAID THAT
I NEVER IMPLIED THAT
in fact,
I WENT OUT OF MY WAY TO MAKE THAT AS CLEAR AS CAN POSSIBLY BE.

Quite frankly - and this probably doesn't speak well of me as a human being, but, alas I have many faults - I have reached the point where I don't much care whether Sandsuky is guilty or innocent......at least not relative to the amount that I DO care that we (ALL OF US) can sit back and watch a corrupted system of Justice in operation - and claim we don't care.

and still..........alas

I am simply astounded that so many simply cannot separate the two issues. Astounded....really


It is a well known fact that prosecutors held back many victims from the trial, and there is evidence everywhere that there are other victims who never came forward if you look hard enough.

So some of us fight for several angles. One; to make sure we do everything we can to help abused children and keep it from happening again and 2; to get to the bottom of WHY the system proceeded the way it did.

NOTHING that I wrote.....N....O....T....H....I....N....G has anything to do with "helping or not helping abused children".
I simply am at a loss for words.

Alas.......
 
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Good one elvis. Or an "objective" judge would follow the law, which is that "weird" or "odd" things don't get you a new trial under the PCRA. You have to demonstrate that the outcome would significantly change and/or produce NEW evidence.

An objective judge would allow discovery into a myriad of issues including the March 2011 Grand Jury leaks to Sara Ganim which in all likelihood came from the OAG, the false GJ presentment, whether any witnesses at trial were less than truthful concerning their relationship with their civil attorneys, and the motives of Allan Myers (the ex-marine who wrote LTEs in support of JS, gave a pro-JS statement to Amendola's investigator and then apparently flipped before trial and was then shielded from both the defense and the prosecutors before trial).

By the way, has anyone had any luck identifying the real v2?
 
Cleland is going to be in a real bind with the latest PCRA. JS' team is arguing Clinton County CYS broke the CPSL by running the original investigation(should have gone to DPW due to the TSM conflict). This is actually in the Moulton Report and it mentions the failure to set up a lawfully mandated investigative team of DPW and LE, as mandated by CPSL. They argue the failure to follow the law resulted in the OAG's office ultimately getting the case and convening an unlawful investigative GJ.

PA's child protection agencies strike again.
 
An objective judge would allow discovery into a myriad of issues including the March 2011 Grand Jury leaks to Sara Ganim which in all likelihood came from the OAG, the false GJ presentment, whether any witnesses at trial were less than truthful concerning their relationship with their civil attorneys, and the motives of BLANK (the ex-marine who wrote LTEs in support of JS, gave a pro-JS statement to Amendola's investigator and then apparently flipped before trial and was then shielded from both the defense and the prosecutors before trial).

By the way, has anyone had any luck identifying the real v2?

The person who some allege is V2 did not write the LTE. The PCRA confirms Sandusky provided the text and he submitted it on Sandusky's behalf.
 
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An objective judge would allow discovery into a myriad of issues including the March 2011 Grand Jury leaks to Sara Ganim which in all likelihood came from the OAG, the false GJ presentment, whether any witnesses at trial were less than truthful concerning their relationship with their civil attorneys, and the motives of Allan Myers (the ex-marine who wrote LTEs in support of JS, gave a pro-JS statement to Amendola's investigator and then apparently flipped before trial and was then shielded from both the defense and the prosecutors before trial).

By the way, has anyone had any luck identifying the real v2?

Won't matter, they'd bring more victims and Jerry is in the same spot. Nothing is changing and if you were objective which you are not you would see this.
 
Cleland is going to be in a real bind with the latest PCRA. JS' team is arguing Clinton County CYS broke the CPSL by running the original investigation(should have gone to DPW due to the TSM conflict). This is actually in the Moulton Report and it mentions the failure to set up a lawfully mandated investigative team of DPW and LE, as mandated by CPSL. They argue the failure to follow the law resulted in the OAG's office ultimately getting the case and convening an unlawful investigative GJ.

PA's child protection agencies strike again.

They (Sandusky's Attorney) brought up the exact same points last time - IIRC.

Cleland's response was "Bring Kathy Kane into chambers" :confused:

Why would we expect any less lunacy this time around?
 
Your tugging at our heartstrings is using a logical fallacy. Because A then B. Because Gatos was wrongfully convicted then what of Jerry?

It may just be as simple as the fact that many of us have reviewed all of the available public evidence (and even some that's not public) and realize that the OAG skirting rules and Jerry being innocent don't equal each other. It is a well known fact that prosecutors held back many victims from the trial, and there is evidence everywhere that there are other victims who never came forward if you look hard enough.

So some of us fight for several angles. One; to make sure we do everything we can to help abused children and keep it from happening again and 2; to get to the bottom of WHY the system proceeded the way it did.

I believe a new trial would help to get to the bottom of why the system proceeded the way that it did.

Yes, a lot of accusations were made after Penn State said they would compensate any remotely credible claims. It seems to me that they did better than that and compensated many seemingly incredible claims.

The prosecution had the option of including any new accusations that came after the GJP and I would presume that would choose the ones that they felt were the strongest. If v9 and v10 were the strongest witnesses they could come up with, I suspect the other accusations would have been weaker. Scott Paterno has even said that v9's claim that he had lunch with JS and JVP at Beaver stadium was not credible.
 
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Cleland is going to be in a real bind with the latest PCRA. JS' team is arguing Clinton County CYS broke the CPSL by running the original investigation(should have gone to DPW due to the TSM conflict). This is actually in the Moulton Report and it mentions the failure to set up a lawfully mandated investigative team of DPW and LE, as mandated by CPSL. They argue the failure to follow the law resulted in the OAG's office ultimately getting the case and convening an unlawful investigative GJ.

PA's child protection agencies strike again.


From Moulton at p 100:


"Had such a team been convened, all interested parties would have been involved in or at least aware
of the initial interview of A.F. This not only might have jump started the investigation but also
would have comported with best practices in child abuse cases. 224"


So Moulton actually argues that the failure may have SLOWED the investigation and that more and better evidence could have been found earlier. Hardly a death knell to Cleland.

Second, have you read the actual PCRA statute? Let me quote for you from 42 PA C.S. 9543 (the PCRA relief eligibility, red highlights Sandusky's main claims):


§ 9543. Eligibility for relief.

(a) General rule.--To be eligible for relief under this subchapter, the petitioner must plead and prove by a preponderance of the evidence all of the following:

(1) That the petitioner has been convicted of a crime under the laws of this Commonwealth and is at the time relief is granted:

(i) currently serving a sentence of imprisonment, probation or parole for the crime;

(ii) awaiting execution of a sentence of death for the crime; or

(iii) serving a sentence which must expire before the person may commence serving the disputed sentence.

(2) That the conviction or sentence resulted from one or more of the following:

(i) A violation of the Constitution of this Commonwealth or the Constitution or laws of the United States which, in the circumstances of the particular case, so undermined the truth-determining process that no reliable adjudication of guilt or innocence could have taken place.

(ii) Ineffective assistance of counsel which, in the circumstances of the particular case, so undermined the truth-determining process that no reliable adjudication of guilt or innocence could have taken place.

(iii) A plea of guilty unlawfully induced where the circumstances make it likely that the inducement caused the petitioner to plead guilty and the petitioner is innocent.

(iv) The improper obstruction by government officials of the petitioner's right of appeal where a meritorious appealable issue existed and was properly preserved in the trial court.

(v) (Deleted by amendment).

(vi) The unavailability at the time of trial of exculpatory evidence that has subsequently become available and would have changed the outcome of the trial if it had been introduced.

(vii) The imposition of a sentence greater than the lawful maximum.

(viii) A proceeding in a tribunal without jurisdiction.

(3) That the allegation of error has not been previously litigated or waived.

(4) That the failure to litigate the issue prior to or during trial, during unitary review or on direct appeal could not have been the result of any rational, strategic or tactical decision by counsel.

So you must not just determine that one of these things happened, but you also must demonstrate that it made it utterly impossible to adjudicate his guilt or innocence. These are legal standards, not just "man that looks awfully bad" from my wikilawyer point of view.
 
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Roxine is another "nuttier than squirrel shit" case.

He/She is all "about the kids" though........so it is politically incorrect to point the idiocy out

she started a non profit victim's advocate group, then claims she raised ZERO dollars for it. riiiiiiiiiiight
 
Regardless of what you think of his guilt or innocence, this awkward wording is hardly the admission of guilt you think it is. The rest of his awkward interview is much more damning than this. Not sure why you are wasting your time trying to convince people that he is guilty, which doesn't help anyone. When you could be shining the spotlight on the DPW, CYS, and the second mile. These organizations approved him to adopt many times, cleared him in 1998, and ignored Penn State's call in 2001.

Also, the Salem Witch Trials occurred between February 1692 and May 1693. The earliest possible year sound could be recorded was 1877. #Facts

actually there are enormous public written records from the Salem Trials, and "guilty" people "confessed" to many transgressions
 
The person who some allege is V2 did not write the LTE. The PCRA confirms Sandusky provided the text and he submitted it on Sandusky's behalf.

Believe what you want to believe. AM is v2. The OAG knows, Judge Cleland knows, and CSS and their lawyers know. If there was any credible evidence that AM was not v2, the PCRA would have been immediately shut down.
 
Can someone explain why there are so many fighting for Jerry's rights? Even if it was 1 child, he is in prison for life with a conviction.
 
The only reason PSU had so many claims against it is bc they came out and admitted guilt for CSS and said they would pay all civil suits even before JS was even convicted for crying out loud!!

And I challenge you to find one other example of a company/school paying out over $100MM all based on unproven allegations in a GJP.

To this day not one single allegation against CSS has been proven in a court of law whether civil or criminally. Truly mind blowing route for PSU to take unless of course certain BOT had something very bad to hide.

Who gives a damn what the freaking corrupt idiots in the press would say if PSU actually told the plaintiffs we'll see you in court so they could prove their case or not. If the OgBOT didn't commission and embrace the freeh report the plaintiffs would essentially have to argue that psu admins should have known better than what the child care experts at CCCYS/TSM were telling them re: JS in 98 and 2001. Both incidents were reported outside of PSU. The admins had no control over JS access to kids. MM's story has more holes than swiss cheese and he would be shredded on the stand by competent counsel if the plaintiffs tried to rely on him.

It's the job of trustees to not act on emotion and look out for the school. They failed miserably.

FWIW.....PSU has paid out MORE in Victim Settlements than the Boston Archdiocese (the folks highlighted in the SPOTLIGHT movie....the big Catholic Church case)

PSU has paid out more than the entire Boston Archdiocese.

More


Let that sink in for a minute......then allow yourself (everybody) to ponder the "why"s.........
 
Can someone explain why there are so many fighting for Jerry's rights? Even if it was 1 child, he is in prison for life with a conviction.

Because they think the world will apologize to PSU and all will be erased once Jerry is exonerated. Do you honestly think these freedom fighters are out there looking at legit cases where really innocent people are in prison?
 
Can someone explain why there are so many fighting for Jerry's rights? Even if it was 1 child, he is in prison for life with a conviction.

there's too many on this thread, yes......but in reality.....and trust me......there's a minuscule % of psu fans that believe in the laughable theory that Jerry isn't pedophile.

other than that, there's no explanation.
 
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Because they think the world will apologize to PSU and all will be erased once Jerry is exonerated. Do you honestly think these freedom fighters are out there looking at legit cases where really innocent people are in prison?

Spanier, Curley, and Schultz are not in prison; but they are not yet clear of legal jeopardy. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cases against SC&C and against JS are interrelated.
 
Believe what you want to believe. BLANK is v2. The OAG knows, Judge Cleland knows, and CSS and their lawyers know. If there was any credible evidence that BLANK was not v2, the PCRA would have been immediately shut down.


It's not about what I believe, he actually said that. You brought up his motives, and he says he doesn't know why he did it.

Also amazing that so many people KNOW he is V2 yet not one of them wants to put him under oath to say so.

Whether the PCRA is shut down has to do with whether any one of the many issues addressed in it have legal merit. Your alleged V2 is not the only issue raised. So you are incorrect on that point as well.
 
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