Gruden is done

[Jerry]

You mean like the fake outrage over people taking a knee? And no, not everyone is sending slurs to other people via email. Most sane people know better than to do that and this wasn't hard to figure out a decade back. JG isn't some huge victim here unless you honestly think he didn't know better...in which case you think he is a moron.

Jol, one of the counts in the media's indictment of Gruden was "misogyny"...for e-mailing pictures of topless women. Seriously, a person could gag on the level of hypocrisy here.

As for the slurs, OK, they're distasteful and offensive...but we're talking about three or four words sent privately to a friend 10 friggin' years ago.

My point is that the reaction and punishment are ridiculously disproportionate to the offense given that: A) a number of NFL players have done much worse and are still receiving paychecks; and B) there are 10,000 more important things than Jon Gruden's decade-old e-mails to worry about and focus on.

 

[NoBareFeet]

My point is that the reaction and punishment are ridiculously disproportionate to the offense

I think this is the biggest issue here. Somehow, we've reached the point where saying certain words (even privately, with no intent for the public to ever hear them) is a bigger offense than rape, assault, murder, etc.

Good thing Joe and company didn't "cover up" for Sandusky saying the "n" word or "f" word instead of being a pedophile, or the football team really WOULD have gotten the death penalty.

 

[LaJollaLion]

I take personal days to cope.

I know these “people” are scary for you.

Jol, one of the counts in the media's indictment of Gruden was "misogyny"...for e-mailing pictures of topless women. Seriously, a person could gag on the level of hypocrisy here.

As for the slurs, OK, they're distasteful and offensive...but we're talking about three or four words sent privately to a friend 10 friggin' years ago.

My point is that the reaction and punishment are ridiculously disproportionate to the offense given that: A) a number of NFL players have done much worse and are still receiving paychecks; and B) there are 10,000 more important things than Jon Gruden's decade-old e-mails to worry about and focus on.

You aren’t running a franchise or a public business. If you want someone like that to be the face of your business, have at it. He’s not a victim. Sorry the world is evolving.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Hell, except for those living in a bubble, we've all heard worse...and let's cut the bullshit: many here who've happily joined the Outrage Brigade have themselves said worse.

Yet, we're asked to take this fake charade of shock and indignation seriously. A certain group will do so because that's what they're conditioned to do...or even rewarded for doing.

The rest of us know the whole thing is complete nonsense and the Cancellation Ritual attending it as phony as a 3-dollar bill...as are those conducting the ritual.

I think this is one of the best posts I’ve read criticizing cancel culture.

Common sense is a powerful thing. Calling out BS can be devastating. Well done.

 

[sluggo72]

Proud of Carl Nassib. Lets hope he can navigate this for good. I'd love to see he and Gruden do some joint statements. Gruden of learning and acceptance and Nassib of understanding and forgiveness.

Looks like CN took a "personal day" yesterday.

Carl Nassib Takes Personal Day After Jon Gruden's Anti-Gay Emails Revealed

Carl Nassib was granted a day off by the Raiders ... after his former head coach, Jon Gruden, was ousted for spewing homophobic comments in emails.

www.tmz.com

Hell Lane Johnson has been taking a personal month!!

 

[Erial_Lion]

I think this is one of the best posts I’ve read criticizing cancel culture.

Common sense is a powerful thing. Calling out BS can be devastating. Well done.

So let me understand...you think it would have been the best business decision for the Raiders and the NFL to continue employing Gruden as head coach, even after his e-mails came out? What could he have said in those e-mails that would make you think that he deserved to lose his job? Or is there no line at all that could be crossed, since it was several years ago, and/or he didn't mean for them to get out? Are "n-bombs" ok, since they're just words (and "they" get to use those words in rap lyrics)?

Would James Franklin be ok sending dick-pics to female students from his university phone, if he didn't intend for them to get out? Would firing him for the transgression be "cancel culture", or does cancel culture only come into play if it's insulting a minority or some sorts?

 

[PSUHarry33]

I think if we're being honest with ourselves, we can see this is really all just a show. Be a victim when you can, get some sympathy and praise from the media.

Think about the kind of shit that football players say to each other on the field. The trash talking, etc. And now we're expected to believe that players are emotionally scarred by emails that a coach sent to a friend years ago that have nothing to do with them? Laughable.

I know there are a lot of fragile people out there that get offended by the stupidest things. Offended by words. But now it is extended to football players? Again, laughable.

I think you need to walk in someone else's shoes just once.... Just once.

 

[Grant Green]

Right, and it's especially bullying and authoritarian when it assaults common sense, overturns human experience, violates personal conscience, and is imposed at the point of a gun (figuratively speaking).

 

[demlion]

Such victims in this thread. How you manage to go on is so inspirational.

The male self-pity here is simply astounding.

 

[psu skp]

 

[BBrown]

Bruce Allen, Daniel Snyder and well pretty much all of the front office people for the WTF's.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

So let me understand...you think it would have been the best business decision for the Raiders and the NFL to continue employing Gruden as head coach, even after his e-mails came out? What could he have said in those e-mails that would make you think that he deserved to lose his job? Or is there no line at all that could be crossed, since it was several years ago, and/or he didn't mean for them to get out? Are "n-bombs" ok, since they're just words (and "they" get to use those words in rap lyrics)?

Would James Franklin be ok sending dick-pics to female students from his university phone, if he didn't intend for them to get out? Would firing him for the transgression be "cancel culture", or does cancel culture only come into play if it's insulting a minority or some sorts?

Huh? Do you work for the BBC?

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

The male self-pity here is simply astounding.

Huh?

Changing the narrative is a neat trick, but let us be clear. What some of us are doing is showing our contempt for your obvious posturing, your fake outrage, and the disgust we have for you.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Huh?

Changing the narrative is a neat trick, but let us be clear. What some of us are doing is showing our contempt for your obvious posturing, your fake outrage, and the disgust we have for you.

You all are picking a strange hill to die on.

 

[demlion]

Huh?

Changing the narrative is a neat trick, but let us be clear. What some of us are doing is showing our contempt for your obvious posturing, your fake outrage, and the disgust we have for you.

LOL! Well, you sure are crying a lot about it. And it sure sounds like you are playing the victim card even worse than Gruden is.

 

[Jerry]

I know these “people” are scary for you.

You aren’t running a franchise or a public business. If you want someone like that to be the face of your business, have at it. He’s not a victim. Sorry the world is evolving.

Problem is, the world is "evolving" in the wrong direction...I think that's called devolving. The latest Fake Scandal surrounding Gruden shows this clearly.

 

[Jerry]

What is it with you guys triumphantly showing caricatures of yourselves in response to obvious points? I'm guessing it could mean that you have no intelligent response.

 

[LaJollaLion]

Problem is, the world is "evolving" in the wrong direction...I think that's called devolving. The latest Fake Scandal surrounding Gruden shows this clearly.

Yeah, you need a world where he calls people fa**ots, because your Christian values are just fine with it. He’s not a victim, neither are you. Use his words Jerry, see how far it gets you. You seem more upset that he got caught, not at what he actually said. Christian my arse you are.

 

[NoBareFeet]

Yeah, you need a world where he calls people fa**ots, because your Christian values are just fine with it

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd prefer a world where actions were more important than words. Where using a certain word isn't treated worse than actual criminal action. Don't prefer a world where using a word makes someone a racist or bigot no matter what that person's actions demonstrated over the course of their life. Doesn't seem to be the case when you and the woke mob get all up in arms about something, though.

 

[Op2]

I know these “people” are scary for you.

You aren’t running a franchise or a public business. If you want someone like that to be the face of your business, have at it. He’s not a victim. Sorry the world is evolving.

You imply that there is a new standard and everyone is subject to it. That's not the case Plenty of people get passes on worse and plenty of other get cancelled for less.

The Gruden quotes come from some big investigation into the WFT. They looked through a cajillion e-mails but we only heard about those of Gruden. What do you think the chances are the the only person in all those e-mails that said something bad was Jon Gruden? I'd say approximately zero.

If Person X says Thing Y then whether or not a cancellation occurs depends a lot more on the Person X part than it does the Thing Y part.

This stuff is akin to witch hunts. And I don't even like Gruden. I was happy when he back to NFL coaching because I couldn't stand listening to his blather on MNF. But I dislike witch hunts far more than I dislike off bad language.

 

[LaJollaLion]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd prefer a world where actions were more important than words. Where using a certain word isn't treated worse than actual criminal action. Don't prefer a world where using a word makes someone a racist or bigot no matter what that person's actions demonstrated over the course of their life. Doesn't seem to be the case when you and the woke mob get all up in arms about something, though.

Well those words = action. Sorry it’s not 1950 anymore.

 

[LaJollaLion]

You imply that there is a new standard and everyone is subject to it. That's not the case Plenty of people get passes on worse and plenty of other get cancelled for less.

The Gruden quotes come from some big investigation into the WFT. They looked through a cajillion e-mails but we only heard about those of Gruden. What do you think the chances are the the only person in all those e-mails that said something bad was Jon Gruden? I'd say approximately zero.

If Person X says Thing Y then whether or not a cancellation occurs depends a lot more on the Person X part than it does the Thing Y part.

This stuff is akin to witch hunts. And I don't even like Gruden. I was happy when he back to NFL coaching because I couldn't stand listening to his blather on MNF. But I dislike witch hunts far more than I dislike off bad language.

Send those emails at your work. See how it goes. The only difference is you won’t be in the news. Stop making excuses already. Because he’s a public figure he should get a pass? It’s not even a sane argument to make.

 

[Op2]

Send those emails at your work. See how it goes. The only difference is you won’t be in the news. Stop making excuses already. Because he’s a public figure he should get a pass? It’s not even a sane argument to make.

I didn't say he should get a pass because he's a public figure. Some people get passes and some do not. There is no standard. That's a problem.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd prefer a world where actions were more important than words. Where using a certain word isn't treated worse than actual criminal action.

We do live in that world…if Gruden acted on his homophobic/racist/sexist words by cutting a gay player, or slapping the Admin Assistant’s ass, you can bet there would be further consequences.

It seems like what you actually would like is a world where using homophobic or racist language has no consequences as long as it’s not said in a public setting. (And from your posting history, I have no doubt you’d have no strong issues with some of those words in a public setting)

 

[Erial_Lion]

I didn't say he should get a pass because he's a public figure. Some people get passes and some do not. There is no standard. That's a problem.

If Bruce Allen’s friend that’s a plumber said those words, we’d never know about it…it comes with the territory when you’re making millions of dollars coaching an NFL team. I don’t see that as that big of a problem.

 

[Grant Green]

What is it with you guys triumphantly showing caricatures of yourselves in response to obvious points? I'm guessing it could mean that you have no intelligent response.

 

[LaJollaLion]

I didn't say he should get a pass because he's a public figure. Some people get passes and some do not. There is no standard. That's a problem.

Again use those words at your work. See if you get a pass or if there is a different standard. I know I do send or receive emails like that, but we can try the everyone does it card too. Oh wait the most ignorant poster on this site already played that card.

 

[BBrown]

If Bruce Allen’s friend that’s a plumber said those words, we’d never know about it…it comes with the territory when you’re making millions of dollars coaching an NFL team. I don’t see that as that big of a problem.

I don't even think Gruden was the subject of the investigation, I think he just got caught up in the wash and when more and more of it was revealed it was a no brainer.
But I want to know what Bruce Allen's and or Snyder's responses were and maybe some others. I don't trust the NFL and or Godell at all.

 

[Erial_Lion]

I don't even think Gruden was the subject of the investigation, I think he just got caught up in the wash and when more and more of it was revealed it was a no brainer.
But I want to know what Bruce Allen's and or Snyder's responses were and maybe some others. I don't trust the NFL and or Godell at all.

Bruce Allen won’t ever get a job in the NFL again, so not sure if it’ll go much deeper on that front.

 

[Op2]

Again use those words at your work. See if you get a pass or if there is a different standard. I know I do send or receive emails like that, but we can try the everyone does it card too. Oh wait the most ignorant poster on this site already played that card.

The Governor of the state of Virginia did blackface, as did Jimmy Kimmel and Sarah Silverman and Joy Behar. Whoopi Goldberg pooh-poohed what Roman Polanski did by saying it "wasn't rape rape" and that was just a couple years ago. I could go on and on. I'm not defending Gruden, I'm just noting that there is no standard and that is a bad situation.

 

[Nitt1300]

Huh?

Changing the narrative is a neat trick, but let us be clear. What some of us are doing is showing our contempt for your obvious posturing, your fake outrage, and the disgust we have for you.

seems kind of a snowflake type of response to people having a different point of view than yours

 

[LaJollaLion]

The Governor of the state of Virginia did blackface, as did Jimmy Kimmel and Sarah Silverman and Joy Behar. Whoopi Goldberg pooh-poohed what Roman Polanski did by saying it "wasn't rape rape" and that was just a couple years ago. I could go on and on. I'm not defending Gruden, I'm just noting that there is no standard and that is a bad situation.

Wait a comedian did blackface? Lol, Chapel made jokes about everyone in the last decade too. He had a skit about a black white supremacist,,,get him!!!! You are definitely defending Gruden unless you are saying it was a stand up routine. IIRC just like Tucker, Jimmy went on a “break”. He’s not a victim. Just stop already.

 

[PSUHarry33]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd prefer a world where actions were more important than words. Where using a certain word isn't treated worse than actual criminal action. Don't prefer a world where using a word makes someone a racist or bigot no matter what that person's actions demonstrated over the course of their life. Doesn't seem to be the case when you and the woke mob get all up in arms about something, though.

Writing an email and using those words is an action.

 

[Op2]

Wait a comedian did blackface? Lol, Chapel made jokes about everyone in the last decade too. He had a skit about a black white supremacist,,,get him!!!! You are definitely defending Gruden unless you are saying it was a stand up routine. IIRC just like Tucker, Jimmy went on a “break”. He’s not a victim. Just stop already.

Comedians don't do blackface anymore because it gets you cancelled. It could get you cancelled if you did it in the past too, or not, depending who you are. That's the point. The reason Kimmell and Silverman didn't get cancelled wasn't because they are comedians. I personally don't care whether comedians do blackface but that's not the point. Having a standard that applies to everyone is the point and we don't have that now.

BTW, both the Governor of Virginia and the Prime Minister of Canada did blackface too and they're still in office.

 

[MacNit07]

I know these “people” are scary for you.

You aren’t running a franchise or a public business. If you want someone like that to be the face of your business, have at it. He’s not a victim. Sorry the world is evolving.

Not in all phases….it still condones snuffing out human life in defiance of the science.

 

[LafayetteBear]

So, when a guy is introduced as Robert, but says he prefers Bob, it's "famously authoritarian" and you are yielding to nazis if you call him Bob?

I take it that substituting "f#ckface" for "Reverend" everywhere it appears is another way of exercising the freedom you describe here? Lol.

Dem: I enjoyed your post, but I'm not about to call my Pastor "f#ckface."

This happens to be one area where I believe some liberals and progressives diverge from others. I generally think people should have some right to decide for themselves what proper noun should be used to address them. If a guy named ""Andrew" likes to be called "Andrew" rather than "Andy" or Drew," I think his friends and acquaintances should respect that. I'll even go along (maybe with a snicker or two) with an athlete who wants to name himself "God Shamgod."

But when it comes to pronouns, it seems to me that there really are only two choices, because there really are only two genders. If people want to change gender, I'm fine with that, and will respect their choice. But they gotta choose one or the other. They can call themselves "non-binary" all they want, but they should not expect others to go along with the whole "they" and "them" thing. I'm not trying to be mean or spiteful in expressing that opinion. It's just my opinion.

I can't tell from your posts whether you agree or disagree with that. It's all good with me either way.

 

[demlion]

Dem: I enjoyed your post, but I'm not about to call my Pastor "f#ckface."

This happens to be one area where I believe some liberals and progressives diverge from others. I generally think people should have some right to decide for themselves what proper noun should be used to address them. If a guy named ""Andrew" likes to be called "Andrew" rather than "Andy" or Drew," I think his friends and acquaintances should respect that. I'll even go along (maybe with a snicker or two) with an athlete who wants to name himself "God Shamgod."

But when it comes to pronouns, it seems to me that there really are only two choices, because there really are only two genders. If people want to change gender, I'm fine with that, and will respect their choice. But they gotta choose one or the other. They can call themselves "non-binary" all they want, but they should not expect others to go along with the whole "they" and "them" thing. I'm not trying to be mean or spiteful in expressing that opinion. It's just my opinion.

I can't tell from your posts whether you agree or disagree with that. It's all good with me either way.

First, I can see why YOU wouldn't. He's your pastor. Lol.

The pronoun thing is kinds new, and not something I ever thought about much til recently. Also not particularly easy, since we have learned to look at a person's name or face and supply our own pronoun accordingly, and when the signals say "he"we supply "he." Long haired little boys and short-haired girls, especially, can trick us, too.

They, for an individual, is as grammatically improper as "it," though perhaps less dehumanizing. But that's grammar, not human rights.

Before we know the gender of a baby we say "it!" We even say "it's a boy!"
They and them are much more fluid pronouns. Like "it," "they" 8covers non-human entities like cars. "I like Toyota trucks. They run forever."

I do not know how I am going to learn to speak in the format of "I like Bob. They are really nice." That discomfort on my part has nothing to do with violating my rights, though.

 

[LaJollaLion]

Comedians don't do blackface anymore because it gets you cancelled. It could get you cancelled if you did it in the past too, or not, depending who you are. That's the point. The reason Kimmell and Silverman didn't get cancelled wasn't because they are comedians. I personally don't care whether comedians do blackface but that's not the point. Having a standard that applies to everyone is the point and we don't have that now.

BTW, both the Governor of Virginia and the Prime Minister of Canada did blackface too and they're still in office.

Oh you poor dear, are you upset you cannot use the term f----t in an email? Is that the real problem? He is the face of a NFL franchise and that is PRIVATELY owned. It's an actual business and he literally is the man running that team. He didn't get elected, he's not a comedian, and he had a $100 million dollar contract, so stop with this Gruden is a victim chant. There are tons of privately owned businesses in this country where way worse is said and done, but those people aren't making 100 million a year and in front of a TV every week. You see different occupations come with different levels of responsibility. It's not always fair or right either.

But wait....you're not defending him....you're just upset by some lack of standards and not what he actually says which is total BS. Don't vote for the prime minister of Canada or the Governor of Virginia. Don't watch comedians that may upset you either. You have no problem at all with what he said....which is typical of those that defend him in this thread. A comedic skit 20 years ago is where your imaginary line starts....sure it does.

 

[Madsol]

Oh you poor dear, are you upset you cannot use the term f----t in an email? Is that the problem? He is the face of a NFL franchise and that is PRIVATELY owned. He didn't get elected, he's not a comedian, so stop with this Gruden is a victim chant. But wait....you're not defending him....you're just upset by some lack of standards and not what he actually says which is total BS. Don't vote for the prime minister of Canada or the Governor of Virginia. Don't watch comedians that may upset you either. You have no problem at all with what he said....which is typical of those that defend him. A comedic skit 20 years ago is where your imaginary line starts....sure it does.

I guess you changed your handle to remove some of the spaces between the letters, that's how you got off my ignore list. You used to be a good poster, but you absolutely jumped the shark during Sandusky, and you're doing the same thing here. Shouting down anyone who wants to have a nuanced discussion. I believe people like me are the majority, that think Sandusky is guilty AND were deeply troubled by the process that put him in jail because we know if the government can do that to him, it could do it to us. And we think Gruden should have been fired for his comments AND that there is a tremendous double standard that's worth discussing and debating. But you and your ilk won't allow any discussion at all. So good riddance to you, again.

 

[LaJollaLion]

I guess you changed your handle to remove some of the spaces between the letters, that's how you got off my ignore list. You used to be a good poster, but you absolutely jumped the shark during Sandusky, and you're doing the same thing here. Shouting down anyone who wants to have a nuanced discussion. I believe people like me are the majority, that think Sandusky is guilty AND were deeply troubled by the process that put him in jail because we know if the government can do that to him, it could do it to us. And we think Gruden should have been fired for his comments AND that there is a tremendous double standard that's worth discussing and debating. But you and your ilk won't allow any discussion at all. So good riddance to you, again.

Oh another snowflake. You were never a good poster IMO, offer nothing, and I don't 2 sh!ts what you think of me. You just brought up Sandusky for no GD reason at all in this thread as being a victim here so again, you're the POS I think you are. If you're so worried about what happened to Jerry happening to you....you may have other issues going on apparently. Pssst, Jerry isn't a victim of anything other than being an EVIL human. He's literally no different than a Priest who used his position to prey on vulnerable kids..and you want to make him out to be a hero. Seek some help there.