who is "them"? So every person of a certain classification has to think alike and be offended...every single one?
Gruden is done
- Thread starter SLion
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You still do not understand. My business is fighting with insurance companies, defendants, their witnesses and their lawyers. Sometimes it is required that I take people's motivations apart in public, or their stories, or their character. So I get to shine there as well.
It is necessary with such a life that I also learn to rebuild trust with those I care about. You seem not to understand this, but it is necessary for you, too.
+1 Well that and I have said some of my best friends are...Badger fans.🤮
Well kind of...
I have to briefly get off topic since you brought up pronouns.
There is a female colleague that I interact with every once in a while. She is in a different part of the country.
We saw each other in person a few weeks ago and we were having an in-person conversation. At one point I asked her a question about something and phrased it along the lines of “what do you think about…”
Now for context it is just the two of us, no one else. Her response is, “You mean, what does she think about…”
I took a moment, took a longer drink of my drink, and politely said, “Tina (named changed), if I use the word she when I am referring and talking to you and not another female that isn’t present, in essence I am referring to you in the 3rd person, just as if I would be if I ask you, what does Tina think about… when you are Tina and the two of us are the only two engaged in this conversation.”
She didn’t get it at first. So I reworded my initial question to her and said, “Tina, what do you think about…?”
She finally was like, I guess you are correct. I honestly believe she was just trying to throw the pronouns out there to be whatever and not because she really believes in the use.
I did come across unfortunately as being somewhat of an asshole to her though it was not intentional. I think she took it in good stride though. When we saw each other the next day, headed in different directions, she laughed and said, See he later and her smile was not a ‘f off and die smile” towards me.
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I don't think Donald Trump ever voted for a KKK Grand Master, or whatever they're called. Demlion did. That's the difference.
Whitlock's life experience and testimony are much more authentic and compelling than yours, Dem, so in a contest between you and him on this issue, I'll take...him.
Also, Whitlock stated something in that piece that we all know is true and quite relevant: the guys in NFL locker rooms, white and black, have heard (and themselves said) things a lot more offensive than was expressed in Gruden's fragmentary, decade-old e-mails.
Hell, except for those living in a bubble, we've all heard worse...and let's cut the bullshit: many here who've happily joined the Outrage Brigade have themselves said worse.
Yet, we're asked to take this fake charade of shock and indignation seriously. A certain group will do so because that's what they're conditioned to do...or even rewarded for doing.
The rest of us know the whole thing is complete nonsense and the Cancellation Ritual attending it as phony as a 3-dollar bill...as are those conducting the ritual.
I'm liberal, but I gotta admit that I can't do the pronouns thing. If someone wants to claim they are "non-binary" and start using "they" and "them" instead of "he/she" or "his/her," I am not gonna complain about it, but I don't feel any particular inclination to address such a person as "they" and "them." Unless, perhaps, that person can establish their status as a hermaphrodite. Mea culpa. Maybe my position on that will change with time.
I don't understand this either (and I think it's emblamatic about how we don't discuss things as a society too but that's another issue).
It used to be that everyone had a name and also people would refer to the person as he/him or her/she. People would learn to do that latter when they were about 2 and they'd put zero effort into it. You'd automatically call someone "he" and when you did that, you'd do it as a shorthand, not as some kind of profound statement about the person's gender or sexuality. There was one word per person that you had to make an effort to remember though, and that was the person's name.
Okay, now correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the new idea that instead of assuming a he/him or a she/her, each person gets to choose those two other words for themselves and then others just use those word for that person. Is that right? If so, then we've now got three different words to learn for each person, instead of just one (their name). Isn't that somewhat ridiculous, especially in light of the possibility of reducing the two pair (he/him and she/her) down to one pair that just refers to a human without regard to gender?
If I'm supposed to learn three different words for each person (their name, their he/she word and their him/her word), wouldn't it be a lot easier to me just get into the habit of always using only their name? Instead of saying "There is Bob. He is an engineer. Let's go talk to him," while always having to remember which "he" word and which "him" word Bob prefers, wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just say "There's Bob. Bob is an engineer. Let's go talk to Bob?"
I'm serious. The really dismaying thing is when you say something like what I just said, people act like you're joking or crazy or making fun. I'm completely serious. If there's some big flaw in my logic then someone please enlighten me.
It's a famously authoritarian thing to force people to say certain words ("There are four lights") and we are seeing a lot of that nowadays. "You say X or I will hurt you." It's just plain bullying and authoritarian.
Pretty amazing considering some of the dumb things you have posted over time.
So, when a guy is introduced as Robert, but says he prefers Bob, it's "famously authoritarian" and you are yielding to nazis if you call him Bob?
I take it that substituting "f#ckface" for "Reverend" everywhere it appears is another way of exercising the freedom you describe here? Lol.
You mean like the fake outrage over people taking a knee? And no, not everyone is sending slurs to other people via email. Most sane people know better than to do that and this wasn't hard to figure out a decade back. JG isn't some huge victim here unless you honestly think he didn't know better...in which case you think he is a moron.
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If someone is introduced as Robert but says he prefers Bob, then you don't have to remember Robert and only have to remember Bob. One word per person.
And I don't know what you mean by that 2nd part. If someone has a title of Reverend and you choose to be part of their church then calling them Reverend is part of your religious choice. If you're not part of their church then of course you don't have to call them Reverend. You should call people by their name, not by any other titles or nicknames they insist on, unless they choose a title or nickname IN PLACE OF their name. One word per person.
Proud of Carl Nassib. Lets hope he can navigate this for good. I'd love to see he and Gruden do some joint statements. Gruden of learning and acceptance and Nassib of understanding and forgiveness.
Looks like CN took a "personal day" yesterday.
www.tmz.com
Looks like CN took a "personal day" yesterday.
Carl Nassib Takes Personal Day After Jon Gruden's Anti-Gay Emails Revealed
Carl Nassib was granted a day off by the Raiders ... after his former head coach, Jon Gruden, was ousted for spewing homophobic comments in emails.
www.tmz.com
I know he's a Penn State guy and we're supposed to support him and all, but huh?
Members of the church are not the only one who call them "Reverend." It is expected (and polite) to refer to them as Reverend because they are an ordained minister. Try your last sentence in a court room with a Judge one time. LOL.
So, "Judge" is ok, but "Your Honor," is not? Got it.
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not sure what you mean. As an openly Gay player playing for Gruden, he has been pushed to the front of a worldwide controversy. This is something he clearly didn't ask for. But here he is. He is taking a day to sort it out. Surely, the media will press him on his position, thoughts and feelings. Especially with Gruden who he probably thought of as a friend. If he talks about forgiveness and understanding many will throw him under a bus for not supporting the cause. If he lashes out, others will hammer him for piling on.
Thought you were praising him for taking a personal day. Wonder what his teammates thought of that?
I doubt they care and probably understand why. They are human and go through sh!t too....stop trying so hard to be triggered.
I am pretty sure they support him. times have changed. it isn't just his mental health, but he's going to have to think through his response. He's a great guy and has an opportunity to make things better. But in doing so, he jeopardizes much of his career.
I am pretty sure I know what he means. It will be a surprise if Gruden actually responds in any decent way. Not impossible, there is a chance, but I think it is a smart and thoughtful thing for Nassib to do.
I think if we're being honest with ourselves, we can see this is really all just a show. Be a victim when you can, get some sympathy and praise from the media.
Think about the kind of shit that football players say to each other on the field. The trash talking, etc. And now we're expected to believe that players are emotionally scarred by emails that a coach sent to a friend years ago that have nothing to do with them? Laughable.
I know there are a lot of fragile people out there that get offended by the stupidest things. Offended by words. But now it is extended to football players? Again, laughable.
It’s unfortunate that we can’t go back to the time when football players were men’s men, and it was impossible for someone that manly to be gay.
I have to disagree with you. I am a bit, tiny bit, sympathetic to Gruden because this happened 7 to 10 years ago. Times have changed. On the other hand, I've never once sent out a single email like that in my life. Gruden was and is a bully. I am sure he's done that to hundreds of employees who were not constitutionally protected...meaning he's attacked people on a personal basis to get his way.
He's got an opportunity here (Carl) to further understanding. Gruden had his day and now is history. He may not want that stage. I get it either way. CN said before that he didn't want that stage and that is why he never came out, publicly, although most people knew. I knew, actually. I had several conversations with the Browns strength and conditioning coach who asked me about it when he learned I was a dedicated PSU follower.
Regardless, Gruden made his own bed. He is a wealthy guy and I have no sympathy for him. I look at today and move on. I'd love to see Nassib and Gruden make a joint statement..have a beer...have Gruden apologize and confess that he learned a lot...Nassib not accept his apology but offer his understanding...something like that. We'll see. Either way, it has put Nassib in a tough spot.
or you didn't know they were gay. you've got to change and find a way to be OK with it. Let these people have their journey. Nobody deserves to be bullied because they are gay. yeah, a lot of his has gone too far but a lot of change has been needed.
Might need to add a smiley to my post due to its sarcastic nature…obviously there have always been gay players that had to live in the closet. And yet some blow off anything they have to deal with as “that’s just boys being boys”.
Thankfully, society is shifting away from that attitude.
Now society is shifting toward, "you have no right to say that's just boys being boys! How do you know what gender they identify as? What pronouns they prefer! Bigot!"
Much better! 😆
well, don't get sucked into that narrative. I think it is pretty clear that there is great value in inclusiveness and calling out bully-bigots like Gruden. But I also agree some stuff is too far and the pronoun thing is BS. Who knows what to call anything? You can't not offend anyone anymore. As Joe would say, it requires a balance.
Right, and it's especially bullying and authoritarian when it assaults common sense, overturns human experience, violates personal conscience, and is imposed at the point of a gun (figuratively speaking).
That said, you better tread lightly. People are being cancelled right and left for expressing such thoughts. When the inmates take over the asylum, you must at least pretend to be insane.
Such victims in this thread. How you manage to go on is so inspirational.
I take personal days to cope.
Gruden bad man. I understand he harms his pets as well! Outrage!
The bullshit is deep in this my son.
The bullshit is deep in this my son.
