We are arguing that the threat (sort of like Mutual Assured Destruction) does have a deterring effect.
You refuse to see that this is what we are arguing.
We may be wrong, but it helps if you can acknowledge that this is our point.
Has Rutherford lost it or...
- Thread starter canuckhal
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We are arguing that the threat (sort of like Mutual Assured Destruction) does have a deterring effect.
You refuse to see that this is what we are arguing.
We may be wrong, but it helps if you can acknowledge that this is our point.
Thinking he's a deterrent is fine in theory....in reality though it has no basis. One would think having Reaves around protects Blues players from this garbage, no?
Different era. There is the regular season and then there is the playoffs. In regular season, Pens played that nuthead goon who got suspended and then rode the pine in the playoffs. Goons fight goons and do not dress in the playoffs. Dubinksky and Backstrom aren't fighting anyone. They would turtle. And then Columbus and Caps would retaliate. Not sure about Wilson, maybe he would fight, maybe he wouldn't, but playoffs are about goading a player into a penalty, so likely player would skate away. So what could happen. He could grab Dubinsky or Nikassen after a whistle, give a little shot, and play on the edge by taking runs at people. That might slow down some of these players and give someone a reason to pause or it might put the Pens shorthanded. Pens already have several players like that, but may mean that Pens aren't going to sign Kunitz. Pens did rank 8th in hits. https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/team-hit-statistics/2016/
Now if this guy is Messier or Gary Roberts, who can play and throw an elbow, that is a different story.
Playoffs are immediately the weak link in the argument. That's why you want guys who can play. But I still would say that if Matt Niskanen received a broken jaw from someone's fist after he crosschecked Crosby, he is going to think twice next time. The true meatheads might not think twice, and they are always the examples given when people argue that deterrence doesn't happen, but the guys who aren't brainstem creatures are going to process the information differently.
Look at it this way: no matter what we do to Kim Jong Un, it won't matter the next time. He's an idiot and a crazy person. However, if the President of Mexico pisses us off and we do some kind of retaliation, it will have an effect next time, definitely. And more of the players in the NHL are like the president of Mexico, than Kim Jong Un.
Look at it this way: no matter what we do to Kim Jong Un, it won't matter the next time. He's an idiot and a crazy person. However, if the President of Mexico pisses us off and we do some kind of retaliation, it will have an effect next time, definitely. And more of the players in the NHL are like the president of Mexico, than Kim Jong Un.
And in hockey we are talking about opportunity. Blindside and in the back hits are now supposed to be illegal. Hockey players throughout history have looked for opportunities to drill another player in what is now called a "hockey" play. That ain't changing. Similar to a borderline clean hit in football. I do agree that if Reaves can't play, he won't see the ice in the playoffs. One point in 36 playoffs games will not garner much ice time under Sullivan.
What I think we can agree on is that the NHL is the worst league for protecting its star players.
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We can all agree that it is a shame that it has come to this. The most pacifist organization in the league has decided to change its approach because of the Neanderthals that run the league and the referees.
A team that defended Matt Cooke could hardly be called a pacifist organization. I would put Kunitz and Letang in the same category as I mentioned in the previous post. That said, I want all three on my team.
Immediate problem with this reasoning though - some of the worst liberties taken on Sid came when they had guys like Downie and Mcintyre in the lineup. Not to mention, when David Steckel blindsided Sid and Victor Hedman got him a few days later, the Pens had Aaron Asham, Matt Cooke and Derek Engellend all suited up. What did they deter?
...and no matter what happens to Niskanen after he hits Sid in this hypothetical aftermath of last month's hit, what's done to Sid cannot be undone, and the Caps team would take that tradeoff of Niskanen with his broken jaw courtesy of Reaves (and Reave's supplementary major and/or suspension) to Crosby with whatever happens to him regardless.
I'll be honest - there was a time I would have fully bought into this move but the problem with players taking liberties on any star player has got to be addressed by officials calling the rulebook...all of it....consistently. Players policing themselves stopped working a long time ago
does he just hate draft picks. Good gollly Miss Molly. First give LV a second round pick for a player they wanted and now a first rounder and top prospect for a 30 year old banger.
He could be back to being stupid. Time will tell.
Article on Reaves. Fast enough to hit guys who can turn and willing to go after guys.
http://triblive.com/sports/-topstor...ins-winger-ryan-reaves-relishes-enforcer-role
http://triblive.com/sports/-topstor...ins-winger-ryan-reaves-relishes-enforcer-role
At this point, I'd rather have Reaves, than not have him. Not having was not working, and if Crosby feels better having him around, then who are we to argue? So long as the guy can contribute in other ways, unlike Sestito, no harm done.
One thing I was thinking of is the potential collateral effects it could have on someone like Kuhnhackel, who is a big boy who skates fine. He's not physical enough for his size, though. His spot on the roster is in jeopardy now, because of his lack of physical play, so perhaps this sends him a suggestion that he use his size more aggressively. Maybe that's another benefit, I don't know. Kuhnhackel has already reinvented himself from big-time junior scorer to plugger, so maybe he can reinvent some more.
Vis a vis Matt Cooke: the Penguins never defended him. In fact, they did the exact opposite, and told him if he didn't change his act they'd cut ties. He actually did make huge strides in that direction, relatively speaking, although it was too little too late. You can pick on the Penguins because of his antics, and rightfully so, but many teams have a guy like him somewhere in their history. The Flyers and Bruins are loaded with them. Pronger gave out way more concussions than Cooke and could well end up in the Hall. Etc etc. Hockey has glorified these guys and looked the other way forever, as long as they were Canadian.
One thing I was thinking of is the potential collateral effects it could have on someone like Kuhnhackel, who is a big boy who skates fine. He's not physical enough for his size, though. His spot on the roster is in jeopardy now, because of his lack of physical play, so perhaps this sends him a suggestion that he use his size more aggressively. Maybe that's another benefit, I don't know. Kuhnhackel has already reinvented himself from big-time junior scorer to plugger, so maybe he can reinvent some more.
Vis a vis Matt Cooke: the Penguins never defended him. In fact, they did the exact opposite, and told him if he didn't change his act they'd cut ties. He actually did make huge strides in that direction, relatively speaking, although it was too little too late. You can pick on the Penguins because of his antics, and rightfully so, but many teams have a guy like him somewhere in their history. The Flyers and Bruins are loaded with them. Pronger gave out way more concussions than Cooke and could well end up in the Hall. Etc etc. Hockey has glorified these guys and looked the other way forever, as long as they were Canadian.
Oh yes they did and they encouraged his style of play. The Savard hit was so nasty and rules were changed. It was only after Cooke was suspended for an elbow to McDonagh's head that the Pens had a chat with Cooke.
Bylsma also defended Cooke Sunday for the hit on Ovechkin. But Capitals coach Bruce Boudreau wasn't buying it.
"It's Matt Cooke. Need we say more?" Boudreau said Sunday.
http://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=6105132
In January 2009, Cooke's game took a turn for the worse. He became someone who needed to "play on the edge," which is hockey code for "do a lot of dirty, dangerous things but don't take too many penalties or get suspended because otherwise you become useless." He was suspended four times between January 2009 and March 2011, the final suspension a result of an elbow to the head of McDonagh that cost Cooke the rest of the season and forced him to change his ways or else.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ve-as-reminder-of-hockeys-perpetual-dark-side
Just won 2 CUPS so the GM deserves the trust that he knows what he is doing.does he just hate draft picks. Good gollly Miss Molly. First give LV a second round pick for a player they wanted and now a first rounder and top prospect for a 30 year old banger.
I'll bet Reaves is one of those guys that will have a career high scoring year, but I'm still not a big fan of trading away all the young assets and high draft picks. They are clearly in a win now mode, and it seems to be working, so what the heck. Maybe they will stink in 6-7 years, but at that point, who cares I guess.
I won't bother to link any stories, since they can be found easily, but Lemieux told Cooke several times to clean it up or he was out. And when he didn't stay clean, he was out. There's nobody in the NHL that has been against the whole garage league mentality as strongly as Lemieux.
Nobody wants this crap in the game. But until the league decides that it agrees, and they clearly have not, these guys will have jobs. The next Matt Cooke is out there somewhere, and he is going to get a lot of money from someone.
Nobody wants this crap in the game. But until the league decides that it agrees, and they clearly have not, these guys will have jobs. The next Matt Cooke is out there somewhere, and he is going to get a lot of money from someone.
The League is a joke and has been for a long time. When your most skilled player in a generation retires at the age of 31 because of all the garbage permitted on the ice it should have been a wake up call. When your top franchise complains and Bobby Orr agrees about the abuse of top players and all you get from the league is a collective shrug it is telling.
Rutherford will be retired by then as well and having to deal with aging team with little help from the minors won't be his problem.
And Lemieux's hypocrisy has been pointed out many times so I'll just provide one link. A difficult situation. You can wail against the dirty player and teams , while at the same time arguing that the system makes you hire similar dirty players. Alas, Lemieux is still the owner and now employs both Sestito and Reaves.
https://buffalo74.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/matt-cooke-mario-lemieuxs-dirty-little-511-secret/
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I get it. You hate the Penguins. That's fine. But you are expressing your anger in the wrong direction.
Georges Laroque wants to meet you on the ice, tonight 7 pm, in regards to you comments about Mario Lemieux!
Don't be late.
The meeting should not last to long for you sir.
Skates, for you, are optional.
I've been a Penguins practically my whole life and if you follow my posts, you should know that. We are having a debate of which evidence is provided against your position and I guess this retort is what happens when you can no longer defend your position. As indicated earlier, we agree that NHL needs to protect its star players. One problem standing in the way is the NHLPA. But to suggest the Pens are saints and pacifists, please.
No problem Glov. Guns is coming with me.Georges Laroque wants to meet you on the ice, tonight 7 pm, in regards to you comments about Mario Lemieux!
Don't be late.
The meeting should not last to long for you sir.
Skates, for you, are optional.
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