I know he isn't worth responding to, but this is a new level of stupid lol.
Holy hell - Ramos goes off
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I know he isn't worth responding to, but this is a new level of stupid lol.
I think you are missing what Ramos has said he is upset about. If I'm hearing him correctly, he is upset that nobody said a word to him about "recruiting" DD back into the HWC - Ramos is claiming that first, he knew nothing about this active recruitment before DD came back and secondly, he's saying this is not what was represented to him as going down once DD was there. Ramos seems to be upset that he was left completely out of the loop and then intentionally misled as to what actually went down when he basically was not happy and said he was leaving well prior to the 2016 Olympic Trials (when he likely would have been in great demand as the #1 Seed for the U.S. Team). I'm quite sure Ramos could have parlayed that into a pretty sweet deal somewhere if he had left when he claims he says he was prepared to leave -- he has significantly less leverage and his stock is worth considerably less now. I think he has a legit beef if he went to TB, told him he was unhappy with the new situation since the "new hire" of DD, wanted to know his status with the HWC in regards to whether he was #1 or #2 man and that he was seriously considering leaving HWC - if he bypassed opportunities based on what he was told, I think he's got a legit beef.
That's our Spyker. He's quite a rascal. Other fan bases try to steal the guy, but he's our direct link to the staff at Rec Hall, so hands off
This is complete BS nonsense. Honestly I get the whole everybody laugh at the CAPS guy but this is what it turns into. Troll or not its out of hand.
The way Dennis explained it he wasn't really "recruited" he mentioned to tom he thought about making a comeback and tom told him he should do it
Sorry bad choice of words. He didn't want him out but like Ramos said he was favoring Dennis and went out and begged him to come back...Let's be straight up....He knew Dennis was better then Tony....I would be pissed off too....I have NO respect for ANY Head Coach that would do that...Let alone what Ramos has done for Iowa and Tom Brands....That should clarify it...I feel bad for the kid and i never thought i would say that about Tony Ramos....He say's he wants out and i don't blame him one bit....
Spyker, I can assure you that Cael would tell you not to kick a man when he is down. What are you doing? This is a terrible situation for Brands and Iowa wrestling fans. Your posts here suggest you know a lot of inside info. That may be but you certainly need to learn some class.
I agree with you that Tom definitely didn't want TR, the #1 ranked wrestler @57kg and two-time winner of US National Tournament & World Team Member. to leave - Tom absolutely didn't want Ramos to leave, which Ramos easily could have given his credentials and #1 US Ranking @57 -- Tom wanted the diametric opposite, he wanted Ramos to stay even after actively recruiting DD onto HWC (the earlier article is pretty detailed and clearly states that HWC did actively recruit DD via his former teammates on HWC and Tom Brands himself who called and contacted him repeatedly while out West). I think this is what Ramos is referring to in regards to saying TB was not straight with him when he went to TB AFTER DD had accepted TB's offer to join HWC and told him he was not happy and dependent on the answers to some questions he had, he was going to leave the HWC.
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Okay. I try to be positive but i simply do not have any time for Tom Brands. It's not just this Ramos situation. It goes back many years and i will not put certain things out. Enough is going on. I agree....
Ramos at VaTech would probably do wonders for Dance.
I wonder if that connection would help VaTech get onto Iowa's schedule.
For someone who simply does not have any time for Tom Brands, you sure do talk about him a lot.
goethe....On a serious note everything happens for a reason...This was going to come out sooner or later. Things will work itself out....
I find it funny that you spend time on this board while on your own board you are constantly begging for all PSU fans to go away. That's making no sense to me. I for one love to hear viewpoints of rival fans so I'll always welcome you here. Just find it strange that you can't stand conversing with us on your board yet you come here to talk. Can you explain this?
\\That's our Spyker. He's quite a rascal. Other fan bases try to steal the guy, but he's our direct link to the staff at Rec Hall, so hands off
Ya I hate him about as bad as u guys hate Dake
Explain what? I have never I believe begged u to leave if I did I'm sorry. I do converse with Penn State fans on our board however: we have so many of them that are trolls hard for me to keep it straight and sorry forget there names at this moment and to tired to go look them up.
I have done my best here to get along I know that a few years ago over the Long deal I maybe came across as a bad ass. Any of u people that know GOLDBANGER u can ask him what kind of fan I'm.
Lately only been posting here to stick up for Brands and I don't like what Tony did if he can't take getting beat that is his problem. Lets say Ruth and Taylor would meet in that finals I know for sure that the loser of the match would not use the excuse of who was or was not in his cornor. If u wish for me to leave I can gladly do that summer is here and be golfing everyday and next year will just stay away.
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Oh no... Don't mistake what I'm saying here. You are more than welcome and contribute some great stuff here. I just found it strange that you asked me on several occasions to get off your site and said PSU fans aren't welcome there. I'd try to pull up some of the posts but I unfortunately can't since I've been banned. Lmao. But really, like I said, you're more than welcome here. By me anyway...
Banned??? Well I thought I just saw u posting yesterday or today sorry to hear that honest you where a mild one compared to Lion2856 I believe and you posted many good post also. If banned sorry about that I had nothing to do with that honest.
No... Don't be. It's all good. I love reading the stuff over there more than anything and I can still do that. I was getting tired of posting anyway because let's face it,if you're a PSU fan it's more grief than anything. No matter how respectful you try to be you're just thrown in with the ones who are there to troll anyway.
Nobody hates anything like I hate Dake.\\
Ya I hate him about as bad as u guys hate Dake
After listening to the Brands-, Dennis-, and Ramos interviews a couple more times, and doing a little bit more research, a best guess is that Tom Brands was attempting to re-establish competition in the room, which went out the door when McDonough was injured, but didn't have a whole lot of options or a lot of time to find someone well-qualified to provide it. He was trying to find a way for his HWC to put the best wrestler it possibly could into the Olympic Games, whoever that might turn out to be, and recognized it was absolutely necessary to keep Ramos on board in the circumstances. Thus, not knowing for certain, it would not be completely surprising that he may have been a little bit disingenuous in his conversations with Ramos as to exactly what was meant by an apparent commitment to "be in his corner" when Dennis was brought in, thereby creating the "elephant in the room" so obvious in Ramos' mind which today I listened to Brands claim he never saw.
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Please let me correct the record. Is "actively recruiting" now a euphemism for a coach telling his guy to come back home and compete when he's ready? DD was always good but there was no indication he was this good until after he came back. Most likely, they wanted him as a training partner for Ramos and he was a high level guy with some issues to work out on the mat. Then, he started winning and looking good. I'd also wager that TRam had no problem at first because he thought DD could help in the room and just plain thought he was better. Tony was the guy...until he wasn't. That's wrestling.
You would think fans of a team with good dudes two deep would understand the desire for coaches to help their guys reach the pinnacle of their talent but also want to win. Tom was hardly ever in TRam's corner because Terry and Duroe have always coached him. Tony going at M* and Tom was a red herring...and probably to himself. He had never been dominated like in the second match by an American. Plus, they both did their best to be neutral...they weren't in anybody's corner unless they were there to towel them off.
You would think fans of a team with good dudes two deep would understand the desire for coaches to help their guys reach the pinnacle of their talent but also want to win. Tom was hardly ever in TRam's corner because Terry and Duroe have always coached him. Tony going at M* and Tom was a red herring...and probably to himself. He had never been dominated like in the second match by an American. Plus, they both did their best to be neutral...they weren't in anybody's corner unless they were there to towel them off.
No most do understand except our Buddy Franklin who is like a kid on Christmas with this situation. His theory keeps getting holes blown in it so he keeps changing it while admitting he didn't watch the match. Tony has used very poor judgement the last 48 hours or so. It's just that simple. He got beat badly in the second match which could have lit the fuse. IMO if he really had all this in his mind he lost before he ever stepped on the mat. There are not great cover ups or conspiracies here. Just a guy who lost a dream and held a press conference like never before.
I think you are completely missing what Ramos is upset about. He is upset about a conversation, or conversations, he had with Tom Brands regarding his CAREER and current status with HWC that took place AFTER DD had accepted TB's offer to return to the HWC (DD was the Head Coach of a high school in CA near SF at the time he took the offer - and he most definitely was "recruited" by HWC by both former teammate Metcalf as well as Morningstar and TnT). The conversation apparently took place AFTER DD started having quite a bit of success including winning the US Senior Nationals Title and a meteoric rise up the US Rankings Chart. Ramos was the two time defending World Team Member and #1 ranked US Wrestler at 57 kg.
Apparently, a lot of scuttlebutt started floating around how dominant DD was looking as Freestyle wrestler despite his less than dominant career in Folk (DD in one of his Flo interviews said he went with Ramos to Colorado Springs as his training partner - I'm guessing that was some time in 2015, so the Olympic Staff may have also been chirpping at Tom Brands about how good DD looked.). Sounds like it was a very well-known "secret" that a lot of the National Team and HWC staffs thought it was coming down to TR and DD as the heavy favorites for the 2016 Olympic Trials....and many of them believed that DD looked like the better wrestler.
This was the prevailing atmosphere that existed when Ramos was having his "career" conversations with Tom Brands and specifically asked for a candid opinion of where precisely he stood and rated in Tom Brands' eyes (and nobody elses). Ramos said he had more-or-less determined he was leaving HWC which is not that hard to imagine because I have to believe there is quite a bit of demand at clubs across the country, especially Collegiate Sponsored Clubs, for the #1 Ranked US Wrestler, and 2-time defending World Team Member who is essentially a "free agent". Heck, for all we know, some of TR's dissatisfaction may have concerned "compensation" from HWC and rumors of additional comp that was be negotiated with DD to keep him as DD would have been becoming a "hot commodity" in his own right at this point. In any event, it is quite clear that Ramos is suggesting that he had attractive "career" offers to leave HWC at the time when he had the most leverage and he passed up those opportunities based on conversations, including commitments and promises, from Tom Brands. Nobody here has any idea of what TR and DD are being paid by HWC or what TR was potentially offered as the #1 Ranked 57kg wrestler in the country a year ago heading into the Olympic Trial season. To the extent that not leaving HWC has cost Ramos a significant amount of $$$ relative to leaving now and he feels like he was intentionally misled to some degree when he told Tom Brands that he had thought about it and was leaving before (and was potentially talked out of it by TB), he's got a legitimate right to be upset.
Bushwood: I'm happy to know in the twitterverse that someone can still color outside the lines. You lost me one sentence in but I still couldn't help myself from responding. Good on you.
You're so full of $hit, Ramos referenced in his press conference statements that he told Tom Brands that he was unhappy with the situation after DD was HIRED by the HWC and then shot up the rankings after having success at US Senior Nationals - there was all kinds of scuttlebutt going around about DD looking like the best man at 57 kg both at the National level and at HWC. Ramos stated that he told Tom Brands he had other opportunities as the 2-time defending US World Team representative and #1 Ranked wrestler at the weight and was going to move on to greener pastures. This smacks of dissatisfaction at the financial package and compensation he was receiving from HWC versus DD, or at least what Ramos perceived their compensation to be on a "relative basis". There is little doubt that Ramos could have commanded top $$$, and maximum leverage, to go somewhere else if he had done it at the time he was talking about -- he was still top-dog at 57kg at the time! To the extent that Tom Brands disingenuously talked him out of it and has now cost him a ton of $$$ and long-term opportunity if he leaves, Ramos has every right in the world to be pissed-off as it is his career and family that are being hurt - not yours genius!
BTW, you Brands/HR homers completely miss his point regarding Spencer and the whole dinner thing. Ramos clearly felt like Spencer and other elite lightweight recruits for Iowa were being sold on their access to DD (who, when he was recruited and ultimately HIRED by HWC, was a Head Coach of a high School in the San Francisco, CA area) and DD was being marketed and sold to these kids as "the guy in the room" for the lightweights, not Ramos. There was plenty of smoke floating around HWC as Ramos has referenced and ultimately Ramos was 100% correct, "where there's smoke there is typically fire".
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Oh, so you're privy to what kind of deal HWC cut DD after he returned? After he won the US Senior Nationals and shot up to #3 in the rankings from nowhere? You're familiar with how DD's deal stacked up against Ramos' deal AFTER he came back and had success? This is the point where Ramos said he went to Tom Brands and told him he was leaving because he was unhappy with the current conditions - anybody but a deaf, dumb and blind man can see what Ramos is getting at; he clearly was unhappy with his treatment and financial package at HWC relative to DD. Ramos could have left HWC and commanded top $$$ and a great opportunity at the time - he was the #1 Ranked US Wrestler at 57kg and the two-time defending US World Team Representative!!! So you think he shouldn't be pissed that Tom Brands potentially cost him a $hitload of $$$ and long-term opportunity by being disingenuous with him and talking him into staying relative to leaving HWC now??? Somehow, I doubt that Tony Ramos or his family could give a flying crap about what you think one way or the other!
Your novel you just wrote would be great except I'm a PSU fan and not a big fan of Brands. I just hate hyperbole and misrepresentations. We just won 5 of 6. Try to win with some class.
I don't get Tony's problem with Dennis coming in. Daniel Dennis is just as much a Hawkeye as Tony Ramos. He has every right to train at the HWC. I don't understand why Tony thinks that he has more of a right to train there and that Dennis shouldn't have been there.
Except for the fact that Daniel took fourth the year (Open) before and second at 61kg (Trials) with the HWC. Before that, he won University nationals in 2008 and the Great Plains regional in 2011. So except for all of that, you are spot on cupcake. And I didn't read the rest as well.
Have to say (for most of the rest of you), you are handling this with class. A nice Cael thread going on over on HR from the guys that were at the tourney. Turns out, he is a nice guy.
Even if everything you wrote is true (which it is not), it doesn't matter WHATSOEVER. Tony Ramos is 100% responsible for how he trains and how he performs on the mat. If he was not in optimal condition to wrestle and win Sunday because of these issues, then that is 100000% on him. No ifs, ands, or buts. He controls his destiny. His problem is that he has personal doubts about himself and rather than look inward to find strength, he has chosen to look outward and blame others.
AT the end of the day I think this will all blow over with some time. I actually thought after Ramos slept on it he would apologize, but he seems to really believe he was mislead by Tom. It also sounds like this has been building up for a long time at least in the mind of Ramos and I'm sure he may have even created some paranoia in his own mind in regards to how he perceived he was being treated and trained.
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