How Relevant Is Iowa Now?

[dicemen99]

You're wrong. Obviously March matters THE MOST. and an inordinately amount. Here we are talking about Iowa on a PSU message board.

How many Indiana Threads are there? Michigan State? Army? And how many threads do you have that are dissections of Iowa. As much fun as you'd like to have saying Iowa is irrelevant, we're not. And sure, we falter in March, but in this decade we've:

2020 - Big Ten champs, Favorites for title
2021 - Won NCAA title
2022 - NCAA 3rd
2023 - NCAA 2nd
2024 - NCAA 5th

PSU is the dynasty. Sure. But are you saying absolutely NO OTHER program is now relevant?

Right now?

Not in the running for a team title. Don't see any individual champs on the horizon. Not relevant in March.

Get back to me when you think that changes. Nothing in the hopper now that moves the needle. Maybe Steve Buchanan can finish 5th for you guys.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Interesting. I didn't think much of your recent content validated such a reaction, other than maybe a remark about HWC staff/roster being "inbred" which might justify a warning.

@WildTurk @IAChief32 - can you confirm? Is there something behind the scenes we're not seeing here? Otherwise, it seems like a rather knee jerk reaction to ban this guy.

When you entrust any form of authority to somebody of Turks's character, he's going to abuse it.

 

[BigFella235]

My knee jerk, PSU fan reaction is they’re only slightly relevant. However, when thinking on it further, I feel that they’re akin to the New York Yankees: even when they have a down year, people still talk about them enough to keep them relevant. As a Red Sox fan, the “27 rings” comeback is something I heard nonstop when I’d make a counterpoint to Yankee fan classmates. It’s the same when Iowa fans debate PSU fans: “You think wrestling started in 2011, we have 24 national championships!”. The fact is, they’ll always have the Gable years to crow about. That is something that’ll likely never die. All of that aside, I’m eager to follow ISU this year. They seem to have a roster that could make some good noise this year.

 

[vhsalum]

Right now?

Not in the running for a team title. Don't see any individual champs on the horizon. Not relevant in March.

Get back to me when you think that changes. Nothing in the hopper now that moves the needle. Maybe Steve Buchanan can finish 5th for you guys.

No one said in the running for a team title

Potential champs/finalists

133 - Drake
History is on the side of the those who bump doing just as well or better

165 - Caliendo
Finalist

174 - Arnold
Potential Finalist
A better recruit than Welsh

197 - Buchanan
Champ
Finished 3rd in what is now a cleared out weight class. (and no starocci)

Keuter
One of the best recruits in the past decade in terms of athleticism and accomplishments. Maybe not a potential finalist THIS year, but certainly after.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Iowa is playing a dangerous game here. Teemer, Buchanan, Ramos, Volk, and others before them received offers without being in the portal. That's illegal.

NCAA has chosen to ignore it for whatever reason. Which is empowering Slumlord Bob to be even more recklessly aggressive. It won't stop unless either Iowa Athletics stops it or NCAA does. If NCAA ever decides to pursue it, they'll have several years' of cases. And growing.

Also, since the violations are being performed by outside agents -- at least 2 non-employees that we know of -- that's the definition of "lack of institutional control." Iowa has real problems if NCAA pursues that.

IDK the motivations for individual athletes declining the Iowa offers, but maybe some don't want to be caught up in that game.

Related: this is for recruiting Cade McNamara while he was at Michigan but not in the portal. Across multiple sports is another justification for "lack of institutional control" charges.

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If rumors are true (from the Iowa board), Pearsall tried to poach Ayala (not in the portal). Dangerous games being played. That OkSt- Iowa dual this year is going to be spicy. Give me Gilman throwing a shoe at Terry and Telford knocking a contact out of DTs eye after some sort of kerfluffle

 

[Bob_Anderson]

No one said in the running for a team title

Potential champs/finalists

133 - Drake
History is on the side of the those who bump doing just as well or better

165 - Caliendo
Finalist

174 - Arnold
Potential Finalist
A better recruit than Welsh

197 - Buchanan
Champ
Finished 3rd in what is now a cleared out weight class. (and no starocci)

Keuter
One of the best recruits in the past decade in terms of athleticism and accomplishments. Maybe not a potential finalist THIS year, but certainly after.

Where does Kennedy fit into the lineup? He was getting the best of Arnold last year, correct?

 

[El-Jefe]

Potential champs/finalists

174 - Arnold
Potential Finalist
A better recruit than Welsh

Which 2 of O'Toole, Levi, and Hamiti is he beating?

 

[PotentiallyDan]

Which 2 of O'Toole, Levi, and Hamiti is he beating?

Hamiti is going 174

 

[FatWoodchuck]

Selling seats at a very low price helps. Season tickets are $85 I believe

Wish PSU would charge that much

 

[baccafarmer]

Which 2 of O'Toole, Levi, and Hamiti is he beating?

Best guess is that he’d never beat O’Toole under any circumstance other than injury. I think he’d give Levi or Dean a decent run, but, his odds would be 1:4 or less. The guy is gonna entertain the Iowa faithful and AA, but, I don’t think he has the elite talent to make a run in Philly.

 

[FatWoodchuck]

Hamiti is going 174

Yes for Amine 165

 

[vhsalum]

Which 2 of O'Toole, Levi, and Hamiti is he beating?

Just need the right bracket TBH. Kinda how Welsh did it. LOL

 

[El-Jefe]

If rumors are true (from the Iowa board), Pearsall tried to poach Ayala (not in the portal). Dangerous games being played. That OkSt- Iowa dual this year is going to be spicy. Give me Gilman throwing a shoe at Terry and Telford knocking a contact out of DTs eye after some sort of kerfluffle

Also on the Iowa board, Nelson Brands will be Top 3.

On the Dumb and Dumber chance it's true: I don't condone it, and Iowa has no room to complain.

 

[jack66]

I'll be surprised Welsh reaches the finals or even the semi-finals this year.

He had 8 total TDs against the 13 top 25 wrestlers he faced last year. It's possible to win lots of matches on defense alone, but refs are quicker to ring you up once you get a rep for stalling.

It's no coincidence that Lewan peaked in 2022.

As for Arnold, if he can beat out Kennedy, Welsh is just one of many he might need to beat to reach the finals, and he can't count on getting the fortuitous path RW got last March.

Who knows how the season will transpire, but if we get injuries Ryder could end up in Arnold's path. If U20s are any indication, I don't see how he can ever score a point on Zack ... barrel rolls don't count in Folk.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

Skipping all the discussion but what are we doing here. They’re still extremely relevant lol

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

Also on the Iowa board, Nelson Brands will be Top 3.

On the Dumb and Dumber chance it's true: I don't condone it, and Iowa has no room to complain.

He is a former AA. I'm not saying he will, but I don't think 3rd is an absurd prediction.

 

[El-Jefe]

He is a former AA. I'm not saying he will, but I don't think 3rd is an absurd prediction.

A 15-8 5th placer at a lighter weight, who didn't compete last year.

But even so: the top 4 placers all return (Keckeisen, Plott, Munoz, Berge). And some Starocci guy probably goes 184 too.

So yeah, 3rd is absurd.

 

[vhsalum]

A 15-8 5th placer at a lighter weight, who didn't compete last year.

But even so: the top 4 placers all return (Keckeisen, Plott, Munoz, Berge). And some Starocci guy probably goes 184 too.

So yeah, 3rd is absurd.

I hate you.

 

[El-Jefe]

I hate you.

He has an opportunity to beat the odds.

 

[Nitlion1986]

In regards to this thread:

Iowa isn't going anywhere. They aren't the big dog right now(clearly), but they aren't going to just fade away into obscurity any time soon.

No matter how loudly/often people will try to claim that it's the end of the Hawkeyes, Iowa will still be around.

Excellent point. They are very much there, buying or at least trying really hard to buy other schools' student athletes. They just appear invisible. It is tough for those black singlets to be noticed standing in the massive shadow cast by Penn State.

 

[Nitlion1986]

See my post above. Here is what I said:

"One thing that probably gets lost in all of the current period discussion is that Iowa had a decent team under Kurdelmeier before Gable took over the program. So they have a history independent from the Gable/Zelesky/Brands era, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that they will continue to produce AAs and an occasional finalist."

So Iowa has always been a good program and they won't fade away into obscurity. This point is driven by the fact that Iowa has always supported wrestling, period. However, I think the current leaders of the program might want to do some honest self-assessment if they want to continue to be competitive.

Kurdelmeier was the head coach and his most important and significant recruit was Dan Gable as an assistant coach. Iowa was pretty much a middle of the pack Big10 program until Gable showed up. Prior to Gable Iowa had won 2 Big10 championships and zero NCAA titles. With Kurdelmeier as the head coach and Gable his assistant Iowa won Big10 championships in '74, '75 and '76 and their first 2 NCAA titles in '75 and '76.

Just offering specifics.

As far as staying competitive. TnT's "tough" coaching will always produce tough as nails, well conditioned teams who will win a lot of matches. However, their collective toughness and reliance on stall calls to win big time matches isn't going to win them many individual nor team championships. Even in the couple years Penn State did not put the most obvious best team on the mat, Iowa could only win one team championship and two individual championships in those years. Not sure what level of competitiveness is acceptable in Iowa City. During the Cael years Iowa has typically finished 3rd or worse and has struggled in developing even their elite athletes into champions. Moving forward I see the potential for Iowa to be more routinely in the 4 - 6 range and I am uncertain how long that will be acceptable.

 

[Ja1339]

We’ll know Iowa is no longer relevant when we lose interest in talking about them on this board…. sort of like how we are with Rutgers currently.

 

[Pennstate1985]

If rumors are true (from the Iowa board), Pearsall tried to poach Ayala (not in the portal). Dangerous games being played. That OkSt- Iowa dual this year is going to be spicy. Give me Gilman throwing a shoe at Terry and Telford knocking a contact out of DTs eye after some sort of kerfluffle

I really want Gilman to walk out to music from The Good Bad Ugly with a black hat on, a pancho thrown over his shoulders, while wearing orange chaps. Mrs Lee might crush her new pair of glasses.

 

[jack66]

I wonder how long slumlord Bob is willing to spend millions on 2nd place.

The COVID year comes to an end next year. I suspect it will get even more difficult to lure top talent into the portal. Eventually, TnT will need to do a better job recruiting and developing their own championship contenders. Renting one-year mercenaries is not a long-term solution.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I really want Gilman to walk out to music from The Good Bad Ugly with a black hat on, a pancho thrown over his shoulders, while wearing orange chaps. Mrs Lee might crush her new pair of glasses.

Go out to the center and shoot the finger guns. Like TO standing on the star

 

[dicemen99]

No one said in the running for a team title

Potential champs/finalists

133 - Drake
History is on the side of the those who bump doing just as well or better
.
165 - Caliendo
Finalist

174 - Arnold
Potential Finalist
A better recruit than Welsh

197 - Buchanan
Champ
Finished 3rd in what is now a cleared out weight class. (and no starocci)

Keuter
One of the best recruits in the past decade in terms of athleticism and accomplishments. Maybe not a potential finalist THIS year, but certainly after.

No champs in that reply. None. Nada. Zilch.

And Drake's the only one a great bracket and a few OT wins away from a final. Maybe. We'll see at 133. That's moving away from the very end of the bell curve, not a slam dunk.

Would be happy to make a wager on that.

 

[Petch]

Iowa is playing a dangerous game here. Teemer, Buchanan, Ramos, Volk, and others before them received offers without being in the portal. That's illegal.

NCAA has chosen to ignore it for whatever reason. Which is empowering Slumlord Bob to be even more recklessly aggressive. It won't stop unless either Iowa Athletics stops it or NCAA does. If NCAA ever decides to pursue it, they'll have several years' of cases. And growing.

Also, since the violations are being performed by outside agents -- at least 2 non-employees that we know of -- that's the definition of "lack of institutional control." Iowa has real problems if NCAA pursues that.

IDK the motivations for individual athletes declining the Iowa offers, but maybe some don't want to be caught up in that game.

Related: this is for recruiting Cade McNamara while he was at Michigan but not in the portal. Across multiple sports is another justification for "lack of institutional control" charges.

View embedded media

TNT - “Kirk…hold our beers!”

 

[Nitlion1986]

No one said in the running for a team title

Potential champs/finalists

133 - Drake
History is on the side of the those who bump doing just as well or better

165 - Caliendo
Finalist

174 - Arnold
Potential Finalist
A better recruit than Welsh

197 - Buchanan
Champ
Finished 3rd in what is now a cleared out weight class. (and no starocci)

Keuter
One of the best recruits in the past decade in terms of athleticism and accomplishments. Maybe not a potential finalist THIS year, but certainly after.

Drake Ayala based on Iowa past performances probably peaked last year.
I don't see him beating both Crookham and Bailey, plus there are a slew of other 133 pounders capable of beating him. It would require a perfect run and we all know, the ain't Hawk wrestling.

165 Caliendo benefited big time last year by being in the Iowa room and peaking his toughness and conditioning. He probably also picked up a tidbit or two on different attack paths. Just as probable is his scrambling finishes are no better now than they were when he showed up. Hall, Ramirez or Amine are likely obstacles and the question will be can he wrestle to win in the quarters or semis or will he hall prey to searching for the stall call. The twins couldn't get a finalist appearance out of Marinelli. It is hard for me to imagine their ability to prepare a kid has since improved.

174
Arnold isn't wrestling his way to the finals. As EJ pointed out, O'Toole, Haines and Hamiti. An unbelievably successful tournament for Arnold would be a 4th or 5th place, and that's if he makes the starting lineup. I don't believe he beats out Kennedy and hasn't Brands said he is wrestling 174?

197 if Starocci is at 197 you already know Buchanan isn't winning. Plus there are a bunch of other guys at 197 very capable of beating him and at nationals, those other guys typically beat a susceptible Hawkeye.

Based on history, out the guys you listed there is probably 1 who will make the finals. Most likely none who will win Saturday night.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Drake Ayala based on Iowa past performances probably peaked last year.
I don't see him beating both Crookham and Bailey, plus there are a slew of other 133 pounders capable of beating him. It would require a perfect run and we all know, the ain't Hawk wrestling.

165 Caliendo benefited big time last year by being in the Iowa room and peaking his toughness and conditioning. He probably also picked up a tidbit or two on different attack paths. Just as probable is his scrambling finishes are no better now than they were when he showed up. Hall, Ramirez or Amine are likely obstacles and the question will be can he wrestle to win in the quarters or semis or will he hall prey to searching for the stall call. The twins couldn't get a finalist appearance out of Marinelli. It is hard for me to imagine their ability to prepare a kid has since improved.

174
Arnold isn't wrestling his way to the finals. As EJ pointed out, O'Toole, Haines and Hamiti. An unbelievably successful tournament for Arnold would be a 4th or 5th place, and that's if he makes the starting lineup. I don't believe he beats out Kennedy and hasn't Brands said he is wrestling 174?

197 if Starocci is at 197 you already know Buchanan isn't winning. Plus there are a bunch of other guys at 197 very capable of beating him and at nationals, those other guys typically beat a susceptible Hawkeye.

Based on history, out the guys you listed there is probably 1 who will make the finals. Most likely none who will win Saturday night.

Is Carter at 197? He looks 184 tbh.

 

[El-Jefe]

No champs in that reply. None. Nada. Zilch.

And Drake's the only one a great bracket and a few OT wins away from a final. Maybe. We'll see at 133. That's moving away from the very end of the bell curve, not a slam dunk.

Would be happy to make a wager on that.

I could see Buchanan winning 197 if Carter goes 184. He's a 2x 3rd placer. He beat Cardenas and has split matches with Sloan, Elam, Beard, and Little. So it's possible but not a given.

Of course, that's before the Iowa Super-Senior March Decline.

Also, he's not yet transferred to Iowa.

 

[vhsalum]

Drake Ayala based on Iowa past performances probably peaked last year.
I don't see him beating both Crookham and Bailey, plus there are a slew of other 133 pounders capable of beating him. It would require a perfect run and we all know, the ain't Hawk wrestling.

165 Caliendo benefited big time last year by being in the Iowa room and peaking his toughness and conditioning. He probably also picked up a tidbit or two on different attack paths. Just as probable is his scrambling finishes are no better now than they were when he showed up. Hall, Ramirez or Amine are likely obstacles and the question will be can he wrestle to win in the quarters or semis or will he hall prey to searching for the stall call. The twins couldn't get a finalist appearance out of Marinelli. It is hard for me to imagine their ability to prepare a kid has since improved.

174
Arnold isn't wrestling his way to the finals. As EJ pointed out, O'Toole, Haines and Hamiti. An unbelievably successful tournament for Arnold would be a 4th or 5th place, and that's if he makes the starting lineup. I don't believe he beats out Kennedy and hasn't Brands said he is wrestling 174?

197 if Starocci is at 197 you already know Buchanan isn't winning. Plus there are a bunch of other guys at 197 very capable of beating him and at nationals, those other guys typically beat a susceptible Hawkeye.

Based on history, out the guys you listed there is probably 1 who will make the finals. Most likely none who will win Saturday night.

I REALLY don't appreciate your negativity.

 

[AgSurfer]

I REALLY don't appreciate your negativity.

But you can’t ignore the recent negative trend that is shown by the data. As Iowa wrestlers under TnT advance towards their final season, they are showing a tendency towards declining performance. Look at Lee, Kemerer, Eirman and Woods just as a few examples. If this trend continues, TnT are going to be looking at the portal a lot because their best guys are going to start bailing out while they are still getting better to avoid the inevitable downhill slump that occurs as they get closer to graduation.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Is Carter at 197? He looks 184 tbh.

I don't know. I am just assuming 197 because he is winning either weight, and he better fits a need at 197.

 

[Nitlion1986]

I could see Buchanan winning 197 if Carter goes 184. He's a 2x 3rd placer. He beat Cardenas and has split matches with Sloan, Elam, Beard, and Little. So it's possible but not a given.

Of course, that's before the Iowa Super-Senior March Decline.

Also, he's not yet transferred to Iowa.

Bob is waiting on AJ to return his bag so he can give Buchanan his bag. Tightening economics.

 

[Nitlion1986]

But you can’t ignore the recent negative trend that is shown by the data. As Iowa wrestlers under TnT advance towards their final season, they are showing a tendency towards declining performance. Look at Lee, Kemerer, Eirman and Woods just as a few examples. If this trend continues, TnT are going to be looking at the portal a lot because their best guys are going to start bailing out while they are still getting better to avoid the inevitable downhill slump that occurs as they get closer to graduation.

Declining performance and in Eirman's and Woods' cases after being in IC for only 2 years were physically breaking down already.

 

[Nitlion1986]

I REALLY don't appreciate your negativity.

Yes. However I truly appreciate your presence so I can get it out.

 

[smalls103]

AG, you're a good dude. but this topic is silly.

iowa is more 'relevant' in wrestling than PSU is in football. and PSU is relevant in FB.

suggesting a team that podiums more years than they don't (and won a title 3 frickin years ago) doesn't have any impact is whacky.

 

[AgSurfer]

AG, you're a good dude. but this topic is silly.

iowa is more 'relevant' in wrestling than PSU is in football. and PSU is relevant in FB.

suggesting a team that podiums more years than they don't (and won a title 3 frickin years ago) doesn't have any impact is whacky.

Where did I say that Iowa is not relevant? I posted a poll that asked what everyone thinks, and the results indicate that most people posting here believe Iowa is still pretty relevant.

I do think, however, that they are going to have a tougher time in the future getting into the top five teams when March comes around. That’s just my opinion. Time will tell whether or not I am correct.

 

[doubleboots]

AG, you're a good dude. but this topic is silly.

iowa is more 'relevant' in wrestling than PSU is in football. and PSU is relevant in FB.

suggesting a team that podiums more years than they don't (and won a title 3 frickin years ago) doesn't have any impact is whacky.

 

[HikeNatParks]

Where did I say that Iowa is not relevant? I posted a poll that asked what everyone thinks, and the results indicate that most people posting here believe Iowa is still pretty relevant.

I do think, however, that they are going to have a tougher time in the future getting into the top five teams when March comes around. That’s just my opinion. Time will tell whether or not I am correct.

Does seem silly for the reasons Willie stated. I bet you knew it, too, and were just looking to fill the off-season topic drought. Well, it worked.
My own silliness? I tend to believe those most certain of Hawk irrelevance are those most worried about their ongoing significance. Not sure why, given our stronghold on the mountain top.