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Hypothetical Penn State - Oklahoma State match-up...?

BrucePa

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Sep 23, 2001
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Going to 11
I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?
 
I think the hope is that Joseph is better than Rogers. Rogers did just lose to Glass.
 
They wrestled last year and I recall we beat them pretty good

Jimmy did ok lost by dec

I wouldn't give them all those (165, 174 , 197, 141 and 133) and 125 isn't a toss up. How it looks on paper means nothing
 
125 - PSU
133 - OSU
141 - OSU
149 - PSU
157 - PSU
165 - Tossup
174 - OSU
184 - PSU
197 - Tossup (pending more data)
HWT - PSU

PSU takes at least 5, with Retherford and Nolf much more likely to score bonus than Heil. I like our chances. We'll (likely) see, come February.

EDIT: Being conservative at 133, but probably a tossup (Brock can be beastly, though -- still need more data).
 
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I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?

125 is not a tossup. Joseph would win at 165. Collica (or anyone else) will not hold Zain to a regular decision this year barring the flu or average officials (that joke is for Chief).
 
I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?
At this point, I would give us 125, 149, 157, 184, lean Cutch, Heavy. I think Zain and Nolf will definitely bonus.
 
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I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?

125: Piccininni is 8-0 with best win over #32 and no one else. Suriano is 7-0 with wins over #5 and #11. I'm giving the edge to Suriano here. Not sure why you think it's a toss-up.

165: Rogers has loss to #18. Best win over #21. Joseph has loss to #19, wins over 7 and 14. Toss up.

197: I think this is toss-up territory. Data doesn't suggest to me that OSU should be favored. Toss-up.

So, I see it: PSU favored: 125, 149, 157, 184, 285; OSU favored: 133, 141, 174; toss-ups: 165, 197.

Besides that, there's one thing that matters. Raise the trophy on Saturday. And I think, for that, we have the best team.
 
I'll take a wild stab at it...

125 Suriano DEC Piccininni, PSU 3-0
133 Brock DEC Cortez, 3-3
141 Heil DEC Gulibon, OkSt 6-3
149 Retherford MAJ Collica, PSU 7-6
157 Nolf MAJ Smith, PSU 11-6
165 Rogers DEC Joseph, PSU 11-9
174 Crutchmer DEC Morelli/Shakur, OkSt 12-11
184 Nickal MAJ Boyd, PSU 15-12
197 Weigel DEC Cutch, 15-15
HWT Nevills DEC Schafer, PSU 18-15!

It would be very, very tight. IMO.
 
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I predict the Lions win 7 matches, 3 by bonus, the three losses are by a combined 4 points and we as a collective community debate whether Hall should have his shirt pulled and what is wrong with the squad and how are we going to possibly score 203.5 points at NCAAs and will that even be enough. One or two will post they thought the Lions looked pretty solid, but those posts will be ignored and missed through the serious discussions of Hall, what be wrong and Oh be me posts.:)
 
I predict the Lions win 7 matches, 3 by bonus, the three losses are by a combined 4 points and we as a collective community debate whether Hall should have his shirt pulled and what is wrong with the squad and how are we going to possibly score 203.5 points at NCAAs and will that even be enough. One or two will post they thought the Lions looked pretty solid, but those posts will be ignored and missed through the serious discussions of Hall, what be wrong and Oh be me posts.:)
Huh. Nailed it.
 
I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?
Woah woah woah. 125 is not a toss-up. 165 IS a toss-up, and 197 I'd favor Cutch
 
I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?
Put Mark Hall in that line up.....I think it's a MUST guys !!!!
 
OKST Heavy has knocked off Kroells and Larson both top 10 guys - not sure its accurate to say we have edge - seems like a toss-up on paper.
 
125-Toss up (sorry Clay) Picc is very good.
133-OSU by Maj
141-OSU by Maj
149-PSU by TF
157-PSU by dec (if Jojo)
165-OSU by dec...could go the other way. Would not be surprised if Cenzo won
174-OSU by dec
184-PSU by dec...Boyd is tough, good cardio and would give Bo all he can handle
197-OSU by dec
HWY-PSU by Maj

Think it would come down to 125 and Hwy. Need more matches from OSU Hwy but am fairly certain that Nevills would put it on him as he is looking very good.

Pic is very good on offense and would test Suriano's excellent positioning
 
125-Toss up (sorry Clay) Picc is very good.
133-OSU by Maj
141-OSU by Maj
149-PSU by TF
157-PSU by dec (if Jojo)
165-OSU by dec...could go the other way. Would not be surprised if Cenzo won
174-OSU by dec
184-PSU by dec...Boyd is tough, good cardio and would give Bo all he can handle
197-OSU by dec
HWY-PSU by Maj

Think it would come down to 125 and Hwy. Need more matches from OSU Hwy but am fairly certain that Nevills would put it on him as he is looking very good.

Pic is very good on offense and would test Suriano's excellent positioning
I do think Picc is very good, and I think it'll (would?) be close, I just don't see Suriano losing. Thinking something like 3-1.
 
Picc is very good on top. Don't think he matches up well with Suriano. His neutral game isn't gonna do it and hard to imagine Suriano will take a beating on the mat.
 
Don't forget that we should be seeing a lot of head to head competition against Ok State in 2 weeks at Reno. Some of those predictions will probably be tested.

Rogers vs Joseph could be a wild match. Rogers will sometimes try big point moves like the guy from Stanford did. Cenzo will need to be careful about staying aware of his position and not get caught in a throw.
 
125-Toss up (sorry Clay) Picc is very good.
133-OSU by Maj
141-OSU by Maj
149-PSU by TF
157-PSU by dec (if Jojo)
165-OSU by dec...could go the other way. Would not be surprised if Cenzo won
174-OSU by dec
184-PSU by dec...Boyd is tough, good cardio and would give Bo all he can handle
197-OSU by dec
HWY-PSU by Maj

Think it would come down to 125 and Hwy. Need more matches from OSU Hwy but am fairly certain that Nevills would put it on him as he is looking very good.

Pic is very good on offense and would test Suriano's excellent positioning

125 is an interesting matchup between 2 very good freshmen.
133 Okie St is a big favorite and I understand the bonus perception, but I am hoping we see a healthier more spirited effort.
141 Okie St is winning, but I would be shocked if bonus points were even remotely possible at the end of the match.
149 I am not sure anybody can not give up bonus points to Zain, but I do know this Okie St kid will calm up tight trying not to.
157 JoJo or not Nolf gets bonus points. The difference is if it is not JoJo instead of major or tech it will be tech or fall.
165 I think Joseph beats Rodgers.
174 Okie State would be favored here, but it isn't a match Penn State won't be competitive in.
184 Bo, 10 times out of 10. Only 2 questions is bonus or not, and if bonus is it a fall.
197 interesting matchup. The Okie St kid looked pretty solid in the NCAA tournament last year. The CFP committee would have disavowed this kid due to lack of proper resume'. I think McCutcheon is getting comfortable at 197 and he looks happy and healthy.at is going to be a tough match for most folks not wearing a Missouri singlet.
Hwt. Again a good match. Nevills is looking better and better and Okie St has some good wins.

This is a match up that could be close either way or I could see Penn State stepping away from the Pokies.
 
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You can tell which board this is on, which is expected from any home board.
125: This is a toss up at this point, really not enough on either of them yet. If it happens in February we will know a lot more.
133: Brock will win this, might be able to push to a major.
141: Heil will win this, probably a decision.
149: ZR will win, but not sure why everyone thinks it is bonus. They have 2 matches: 4-1 and 2-0.
157: We haven't seen Smith yet so not sure what to expect, but most likely a decision for Nolf.
165: Another toss up, they both have a questionable loss. I guarantee it will be exciting.
174: Crutchmer seems more focused, I expect him to win this, most likely just a decision.

185: This is a toss up. Boyd will have length on Nickal, I'm excited to see this match up, both go for the full seven and try a lot of stuff.

197: Weigel should win this one, if he gets a TD or if Cutch chooses down it could get to a major or TF. He is so good on top, I think the size and strength difference could be bad for Cutch.

285: Neville should take this one. He is still so athletic for his size, but should be kept to a decision. Still not sure what to think about Schafer, but so far he is surprising me.

If it happens it will be an exciting dual!
 
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Suriano was 159-0 with zero takedowns against in HS. 7-0 so far this year, still no takedowns, while knocking off two #4 seeds and not giving up one point to either. Ahhh, I'll take Nick.
I don't think he has had a leg touched on his feet this year.
 
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I don't see Oklahoma State on the wrestling schedule this year, and I notice they're ranked #1 in most of the polls, so I checked the rankings of each weight class....

125 looks like a toss-up.

OSU looks like they have the better of it at 133, 141, 165, 174 and 197, with Heil at 141 possibly racking up bonus points.

PSU looks like they have the advantage with Zain at 149, Nolf at 157, Bo at 184, and probably Nevills at HWT. But bonus points look like a stretch....

Am I missing something, or is OSU possibly a better team?
How does 125 look like a "toss up"? Please explain.
 
You can tell which board this is on, which is expected from any home board.
125: This is a toss up at this point, really not enough on either of them yet. If it happens in February we will know a lot more.
133: Brock will win this, might be able to push to a major.
141: Heil will win this, probably a decision.
149: ZR will win, but not sure why everyone thinks it is bonus. They have 2 matches: 4-1 and 2-0.
157: We haven't seen Smith yet so not sure what to expect, but most likely a decision for Nolf.
165: Another toss up, they both have a questionable loss. I guarantee it will be exciting.
174: Crutchmer seems more focused, I expect him to win this, most likely just a decision.

185: This is a toss up. Boyd will have length on Nickal, I'm excited to see this match up, both go for the full seven and try a lot of stuff.

197: Weigel should win this one, if he gets a TD or if Cutch chooses down it could get to a major or TF. He is so good on top, I think the size and strength difference could be bad for Cutch.

285: Neville should take this one. He is still so athletic for his size, but should be kept to a decision. Still not sure what to think about Schafer, but so far he is surprising me.

If it happens it will be an exciting dual!
1. It's 184, not 185

2. Not in this world, not in the next, and not in any parallel universe is this match a "toss up". Only one wrestler at 184 right now is capable of beating Nickal, and it aint Boyd.
 
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Seen some strange things in my day, nothing is guaranteed. I saw (on video) Boyd beat a depleted Dean (just getting over an illness) last year, and Nick is still a true freshman. Calling both 125 and 184 toss-ups is something I can live with, though I personally believe both will win. No biggie, just my opinion.
 
Much will be settled in Reno if Okie sends their guys..

My predictions..Suriano will soundly beat Picc
Bo will beat Boyd pretty good (bonus points)
Nevills will soundly beat Schaffer
Wiegel/Cutch toss up
Jospeh beats Rodgers as long as he stays with solid leg attacks

That being said until it happens I guess you could call these all toss ups from an Okie State fan
 
Okie State did not send their starters to Reno last year and this year they dual Cornell on Friday, Dec. 16th with the one-day Reno tourney being held on Sunday, Dec. 18th. I would be surprised to see Okie State starters at Reno.
 
LOVE the debate of whether a match is a Tossup or Not! It's semantics, which is a hobby of mine anyway. However annoying it is to linguaphobes, Semantics is a vital component of Debate.

I simplify it like this: setting these dual matchup odds centers around whether Wrestler A can be said to be favored and, if so, by how much. I like to leave room for plenty of debate around whether a favored wrestler could still lose (of course he could; it's wrestling after all!), so I keep the meaning of Tossup very strictly defined: a Tossup is only left for situations where even suggesting that one wrestler be favored feels unfit.

So here's mine:
125 Suriano favored over Picc, DEC 3-0. I'll listen to you argue that Picc might be able to beat him, but I can't hear you call it a Tossup.

133 Brock favored over Cortez, DEC (but I wouldn't beef with you if you set it at MD); 3-3.

141 Heil favored over Gulibon, DEC. I can buy any argument against Gulibon at this point, and I'm keeping my promise not to ever sleep on (get it?) Dean Heil again, but come on. Heil's bonus rate in his non-redshirting seasons is 36% on 27 wins and 27% on 32 wins. Dude wins, not disputed--but he doesn't bonus guys as tough as Gulibon. Now, could Gulibon lay down & get decked like he did at Keystone? Sure, but how can you call yourself reasonable if you set this as Bonus? 3-6 OKST

149 zPain favored over Collica, MD. Collica hasn't been bonused since Realbuto mauled him 17 nil in 2015 STL and his only other Bonus L that season was when Dylan Alton decked him at the Scuffle. Last year, the worst of his 9 L's was 6-1 to Sorenson, while the other 8 were all <=3pts. So I get that he's gotten tough and is really hard to score on. But put that next to the run zPain's been on since Sorenson 'held' him to a 4pt shutout in the B1G Final? I dunno, I guess I'd listen to it being set at only a DEC, but I'm setting it, quite reasonably, as zPain favored by Bonus. 7-6 PSU.

157 Nolf favored over JoJo, MD. Same reasoning here. Yes, JoJo held him to a DEC once, but he also couldn't stop an 11-3 major in MSG. I'd listen to setting as a DEC, but I'm not gonna. 11-6 PSU

165 Vincenzo vs Chandler Rogers, Tossup. I think this one's pretty hard to argue against being a tossup, isn't it? With these two resumes, including Eye Tests in non-folkstyle results, since Cenzo has so few D1 results yet? I'd listen to a case made for either to win, but not to be favored. But to give a team score, we have to pick, so let's give a DEC to Rogers to see how close it can get. 11-9 PSU

174 Crutchmer over Morelli DEC. I'd listen to Crutchmer being set as strongly favored. Half of Morelli's last 6 L's have been by Bonus after all, but I haven't see enough of Healthy Crutchmer yet this year to set it as such. 11-12 OKST

184 Nickal over Boyd, DEC. Nickal's too good and consistent and Boyd too inconsistent to set this any other way, right? I mean, could Nickal get too cray and lose? Sure, but setting odds, how can you not say he's favored? 14-12 PSU.

197 McCutcheon vs Weigel, Tossup. Two R12 finishers here, one with multiple W's over AAs (Mouse: Dudley 3x, Zavatsky 2x, Ophir Bernstein, Sammy Brooks, Miklus), one with 1 W over an AA (Weigel: Pat Downey). New weight for Mouse and Weigel held Pfarr to a DEC already this year, so for the sake of more team-race-closeness, I'll give it to Weigel. 14-15 OkSt.

285 Nevills over A. Schaffer, Tossup. I'm more inclined to set Nevills as the favorite, based merely on his being a natural HWT and Schaffer bumping up from 197, but I just spent 10mins looking at their records, and Nevills' big Ws at the time, got weaker & weaker as Riley Shaw & Denzel Dejournette never earned AA. While Schaffer's W over 2x AA Kroells already this year looks good on paper. By the time these two meet, it'll be easier to set Nevills as the fave, as 5 dudes ahead of him in current rankings are still on his schedule (Snyder, Medberry, Stolle, Kroells & Black). For now, we'll call it a Tossup and give the W to Nevills.

Which, in a very favorable to OkSt setup, leaves PSU with a tight 17-15 dual win.

Switching over from Odds-setting to personal Picks, I'd go with Cenzo & McCutcheon to get Ws and for zPain, Nolf & Nickal to out-bonus whatever Brock and/or Crutchmer could come up with, so that the final score looks more like 23-9 than 17-15.

As has been the case many times during this Cael-led run, bad things would have to happen at too many weights for PSU, for OkSt to have a chance to win, heading into the final bout.
 
Okie State did not send their starters to Reno last year and this year they dual Cornell on Friday, Dec. 16th with the one-day Reno tourney being held on Sunday, Dec. 18th. I would be surprised to see Okie State starters at Reno.
Agree 1000%. That said, it's on Oklahoma State's competition schedule this year, and was not last year. With it, they have 16 competition dates (max allowed) in 2016-17, so it's feasible the starters will be there.
 
125 PSU Dec. 3-0
133 OSU Dec 3-3
141 OSU Dec 3-6
149 PSU Dec 6-6
157 PSU MDec 10-6
165 OSU Dec 10-9
174 OSU MDec 10-13
184 PSU Dec 13-13
197 OSU Dec 13-16
285 PSU Dec 16-16
 
I'll be really surprised if Penn State doesn't win this year, you guys are the Yankees of college wrestling. The individual match-ups you guys will face are way more exciting: Suriano vs Gilman, Joseph vs Massa, and Nickal vs Gabe Dean... Man. Gonna be some fireworks in the Nickal/Dean match.
 
125 PSU Dec. 3-0
133 OSU Dec 3-3
141 OSU Dec 3-6
149 PSU Dec 6-6
157 PSU MDec 10-6
165 OSU Dec 10-9
174 OSU MDec 10-13
184 PSU Dec 13-13
197 OSU Dec 13-16
285 PSU Dec 16-16

When is the last time PSU scored only 1 bonus point in a dual? I don't know the answer but I'm betting it hasn't been any time soon.
 
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Seen some strange things in my day, nothing is guaranteed. I saw (on video) Boyd beat a depleted Dean (just getting over an illness) last year, and Nick is still a true freshman. Calling both 125 and 184 toss-ups is something I can live with, though I personally believe both will win. No biggie, just my opinion.

If you dare to familiarize yourself w guns posting style on football free board these posts will make sense. Fact. Period.
 
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When is the last time PSU scored only 1 bonus point in a dual? I don't know the answer but I'm betting it hasn't been any time soon.

good question.

I thought perhaps last season against VT, but Zain got a TF and Cutch got a major, in a 21-15 win.

My next guess was the loss at Ok. St. late in the 2014-15 season. While PSU lost that dual 18-21, Gulibon and Z. Beitz had pins in the dual.

My next guess was the loss to Iowa at the BJC in the 2014-15 season, and that, I believe, is the correct answer. Feb. 8, 2015, PSU lost to Iowa, 12-18. Gulibon, Hammond, Brown, and McIntosh had decisions, to account for PSU's 12 points. Interestingly, Iowa also had no bonus points in the match.
 
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