If 33, 41 and 74 are black holes...
- Thread starter NittanyChris
- Start date
Like I said, they should be dinged if all they do is generate a stalemate. If they score off it, or if the wrestlers eventually return to neutral without a stalemate being called, then they wouldn't get dinged. But if you do it to defense your opponents clean attack and only generate a stalemate, you should automatically get dinged - this would allow a wrestler to do it one time to stalemate and stymie your opponents attack without giving up points....it would also have serve to give the aggressor the advantage in the 3rd Period late, which it should. This is especially true when the wrestlers initiates NONE of his own attacks as Cruz did today.
I liked Cowbell's response.
Zain and Jason champs say 50+points.
Nick and Bo anywhere front 4th to champ, but I will put Bo in the finals and put Nick 4th. Bo 20 points and Nick 14. 84 points.
If we get 4 points from your 3 concerns that gives us 87 with McCutcheon, Joseph and Nevillis. If they each finish 6th, 27 points (no bonus). 114 points.
I did that off the top of my head. I am not fretting it. Win the team title I am freaking thrilled. If Okie State or the nature nut team were to sneak past us I would be surprised, but I will have enjoyed the heck out of the season.
Come the end of the year all the guys will be ready to go and I am AOK with taking our chances against whatever a pokie, a Hawk or a Nut can bring in opposition.
Everyone needs to relax! Looks pretty clear to me that we have 2 Finalist (probably champs) in Zain and Nolf. 2 that should be semi-finalists in Bo and Suriano. And 3 that have better than likely chances to AA in Cenzo, Cutch and Nevills. That alone should be good enough for another title. But remaining 3 weights all have potential to AA as well. All 3 will qualify and all 3 should win at least a match or two at Nationals.
Neither Cortez or Jimmy did anything today that change my opinion. The thing that remains constant is that both have very deep weights so in order to AA they'll have to beat a couple guys like Parker and Cruz at Nationals. Same goes for 174 - though not as deep as 133/141 either Geno/Shakur will have to beat a couple guys like Preistch in order to AA. All 3 have ability to do it - no doubt.
Neither Cortez or Jimmy did anything today that change my opinion. The thing that remains constant is that both have very deep weights so in order to AA they'll have to beat a couple guys like Parker and Cruz at Nationals. Same goes for 174 - though not as deep as 133/141 either Geno/Shakur will have to beat a couple guys like Preistch in order to AA. All 3 have ability to do it - no doubt.
Trust the process? What kind of message board do you think this is?
Darn you fans are tough..
Now if I was a coach I would do like Cael is doing getting a nice nite sleep with no worries.
Only thing maybe to be concern about is a injury to one of your big bonus boys and for the concern it is only Dec.
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Year and just relax and be calm.
Now if I was a coach I would do like Cael is doing getting a nice nite sleep with no worries.
Only thing maybe to be concern about is a injury to one of your big bonus boys and for the concern it is only Dec.
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Year and just relax and be calm.
I don't know if Cortez was ill or not. I did notice he walked out during the introduction, whereas must of the wrestlers trotted out. Don't know if Cortez always does that or not. It took quite a while.
He was ill. Saturday in the room he was smiling but moving without a hop in his step. He generally is bopping around like an energized bunny.
Have always liked that joke. However to be honest, when my wife gives asks if I am coming to bed with that come hither tone - I just can not help myself I still run to her.
Nick for 4th?! I think we gotta pump the brakes a bit. I would love to beat every team 60-0 but that's not always the case. I'm calling another 4 finalists with possibly 6-8 semi finalists. This years team is better than last years team top to bottom. Here's how I see it. I think the only weights where we see a slight drop is 174 and 197, where we get major boosts at 184 and HWT.
Any weight class where they don't have an AA will score minimal points. Remember that unless they score bonus points wrestlers that don't AA score very few points. A wrestler that loses in the round of 12 has scored at most 2 advancement posts (assuming no pigtail match). Based on current rankings OK State would not have an AA at 125, 174, and 285. Of course, all 3 of those are ranked in the top 12. OK State, and tOSU for that matter, will both be tough to beat and I would prefer if we had 10 AAs. However, it seems to be a constant theme here that we HAVE to get points from every weight, and historically, that is just not true.
I have now seen a couple of posts that predict Semi's for Bo due to the depth of the weight class and the presence of Dean. Am I missing something??
Bo would have to fall to 4th in seeding to meet Dean in the first place. What is the likelihood of that? I sure can't see that without an upset.
I can't even see Bo seeded 3rd unless Myles manages to pull off another upset and Myles simply isn't as good despite the win in the finals. Unlike football with a sample of one game, the current record stands as 3-1 with considerable scoring distance between them in favor of Bo. Myles earned his way to the finals for sure, but recall the parting of the seas in his side of the bracket paving way for a walk to the finals. Bo will be seeded 2nd and is an obvious favorite for the finals.
I count three finalists until there is more data.
Bo would have to fall to 4th in seeding to meet Dean in the first place. What is the likelihood of that? I sure can't see that without an upset.
I can't even see Bo seeded 3rd unless Myles manages to pull off another upset and Myles simply isn't as good despite the win in the finals. Unlike football with a sample of one game, the current record stands as 3-1 with considerable scoring distance between them in favor of Bo. Myles earned his way to the finals for sure, but recall the parting of the seas in his side of the bracket paving way for a walk to the finals. Bo will be seeded 2nd and is an obvious favorite for the finals.
I count three finalists until there is more data.
Was going to post something similar...then saw m-hawkeye beat me to it. To repeat...injuries are the biggest concern this early. My hope is everyone stays healthy...that is all.Darn you fans are tough..
Now if I was a coach I would do like Cael is doing getting a nice nite sleep with no worries.
Only thing maybe to be concern about is a injury to one of your big bonus boys and for the concern it is only Dec.
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Year and just relax and be calm.
Oh, and hope we get to meet in St. Louis, minnhawkeye. Goldbanger is a good friend, but we're staying in a different hotel, so it might have to be at Scottrade. Would love to match the face with the screen name.
With Cowbell's post above, thought it would be interesting to take a look at Bo and Myles regular season schedules. It was real easy, since Ohio State is our rivalry team in the Big Ten, and we wrestle identical conference schedules. Both face (current intermat rankings);
#4 Dudley (Neb) Away
#7 Brooks (Iowa) Away
#14 Gravina (Rut) Home
And of course, they face each other at Ohio State
In addition, Myles faces #9 Miklus (Mizz) this Thursday. EDIT: It was pointed out that Miklus hasn't wrestled since the 3rd week of November. Unlikely to go Thursday.
And Bo faces #15 Schneider (Bing) next Sunday. PSU going to Reno, so #5 Boyd (Ok St), and #16 Griego (Oregon St) are still possibilities.
Since tOSU does not have any tournaments left on their schedule, the only unknown is the Dual Championship Series opponent. Same for PSU...but they have the added unknowns of the Reno TOC.
The HTH match-up on February 3rd will be a huge factor for Big Ten seeding...with Big Ten performance added to each guy's body-of-work for NCAA seeding. Seems each guy has their future right where they want it...in their own hands. Imo, Bo's in a good position.
#4 Dudley (Neb) Away
#7 Brooks (Iowa) Away
#14 Gravina (Rut) Home
And of course, they face each other at Ohio State
In addition, Myles faces #9 Miklus (Mizz) this Thursday. EDIT: It was pointed out that Miklus hasn't wrestled since the 3rd week of November. Unlikely to go Thursday.
And Bo faces #15 Schneider (Bing) next Sunday. PSU going to Reno, so #5 Boyd (Ok St), and #16 Griego (Oregon St) are still possibilities.
Since tOSU does not have any tournaments left on their schedule, the only unknown is the Dual Championship Series opponent. Same for PSU...but they have the added unknowns of the Reno TOC.
The HTH match-up on February 3rd will be a huge factor for Big Ten seeding...with Big Ten performance added to each guy's body-of-work for NCAA seeding. Seems each guy has their future right where they want it...in their own hands. Imo, Bo's in a good position.
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...I thought the Lehigh match played out about as expected...
... there are always a couple of bouts that are a surprise - pleasantly, Suriano dominated Cruz...McCutcheon and Nevills are continuing to improve... Vincenzo was very active at the start but seemed to get worn down later by his opponent's weight sprawl...Cortez seemed tentative on his feet and was not able to maintain his control on top - which I think is his best position ...Shakur will improve with more bouts...Gulibon looked better but Cruz' style just frustrates him ... he got in on his single but then turned his back to Cruz rather than continuing to turn the corner...once Cruz overlapped him Jimmy could not stand up and drive forward with the leg...
...I feel confidant that Cael will help these young men improve throughout the season...
... there are always a couple of bouts that are a surprise - pleasantly, Suriano dominated Cruz...McCutcheon and Nevills are continuing to improve... Vincenzo was very active at the start but seemed to get worn down later by his opponent's weight sprawl...Cortez seemed tentative on his feet and was not able to maintain his control on top - which I think is his best position ...Shakur will improve with more bouts...Gulibon looked better but Cruz' style just frustrates him ... he got in on his single but then turned his back to Cruz rather than continuing to turn the corner...once Cruz overlapped him Jimmy could not stand up and drive forward with the leg...
...I feel confidant that Cael will help these young men improve throughout the season...
After hearing that Joseph was sick, I wonder if any other of our guys were sick. Anyone have any inside information? Cortez and Rasheed did not look as aggressive as they usually are.
I think it is particularly reasonable to be worried about Cortez right now. He's 0-2 against his best competition this year, and neither look like All-American contenders (though Parker wrestled really well). I'm worried that he's going to continue struggling getting out from bottom and preventing take downs.
This team still has a long way to go before I can feel good about it come March. I'm not convinced we can bear OK State right now.
This team still has a long way to go before I can feel good about it come March. I'm not convinced we can bear OK State right now.
2016:
285: 0
165: 1.5
141: 3
133: 9
We have way more upside in these weights than downside from last years big point scorers.
Someone also mentioned dual meet match-up issues with Okie State and Iowa. So? That really only matters in dual meets and if those bad match-ups make it to the finals on Saturday and they mean something.
Finally, I am not in favor of burning Hall's shirt. Just looking at non-bonus numbers, we're slightly behind Okie State. Look at last year's results, both duals and NCAAs and tell me how they're going to score the kind of bonus we did. They have 2 guys that are 50% BP scorers, and that is season-long.
285: 0
165: 1.5
141: 3
133: 9
We have way more upside in these weights than downside from last years big point scorers.
Someone also mentioned dual meet match-up issues with Okie State and Iowa. So? That really only matters in dual meets and if those bad match-ups make it to the finals on Saturday and they mean something.
Finally, I am not in favor of burning Hall's shirt. Just looking at non-bonus numbers, we're slightly behind Okie State. Look at last year's results, both duals and NCAAs and tell me how they're going to score the kind of bonus we did. They have 2 guys that are 50% BP scorers, and that is season-long.
Agree, I feel great about the team and we don't need to burn Hall's shirt whoever is at 74 will AA. Feel pretty good about Jimmy to, if he continues to be aggressive and wrestle like that the wins will come
I don't worry about him getting out from the bottom. He's good on the mat despite what you saw yesterday.
No matter what was going on yesterday, I have had concerns about 133 for a long while now (not that they matter).
It started last year when I was talking to a wrestler I know about their open tryout - he wrestled Cortez during it. Told me he was pretty even on his feet with him, but then just got destroyed when they went to the mat. I know this is just a second hand anecdote, but it was the first thing that started me thinking. The kid I know was a very good HS wrestler, but shouldn't be competitive with someone who starts at PSU on his feet.
It was also pretty noticeable about the lack of upbeat talk about Cortez from Cael in his preseason media talks. Was kinda mentioned like an afterthought.
Right now he looks like a wrestler out there that is looking to get out of the 1st period, 0-0. Against quality wrestlers that is. I know Jimmy gets a lot of flack on here, but that is never an issue with him. That's really got to change. Right now = guys in Parker's range or even higher - yeah, he's going to beat a few of these guys that he matches up well and lose to some others - he is going to wrestle tight matches for the most part. But the really good guys, I have a hard time seeing how he is going to stave them off in neutral and then beat them on the mat.
Preseason, listening to all the talk and taking in the info, it just seemed like our question marks were going to be 133, 141 and 197 - been saying that all along. Cutch moving up to 197 answered one, he will be fine there. 174 will turn out OK, we've got two good kids scrapping for it. 141 - although I've listed it as a question mark, it really isn't. Jimmy is who he is, some guys are really difficult matchups for him, sometimes he can really go into a funk, but he also has talent and can knock off some guys. You just have to hope that he's right in the postseason and he gets some favorable matchups in St. Louis.
This is not an excuse, But Cael said in pre match that the entire team had been up into well in the wee hours of Sunday morning, celebrating the football championship. Also, Cenzo was so sick they debated not wrestling him, and yes, there were a couple other guys under the weather.
In fairness to Parker, I dont believe it mattered a whole lot: we got horsed badly in that match. I believe Jimmy could have easily won his match, and the same for Shakur, who probably wins if they don't reverse his second takedown.
In fairness to Parker, I dont believe it mattered a whole lot: we got horsed badly in that match. I believe Jimmy could have easily won his match, and the same for Shakur, who probably wins if they don't reverse his second takedown.
I was up till 2am and was certainly in no condition to wrestle sunday at noon. So I'm with you on this one.
Ok, raise your hand if you predicted Suriano would beat Schram and Cruz without giving up a point; and Nevills would beat Butler, Vollaro, and Dejournette, and Bo would pin his first 7 opponents.
The glass isn't just half full, it's four fifths full
The glass isn't just half full, it's four fifths full
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I expect heavyweight will be better obviously. 165 should be better, but we don't know how far Cenzo can go at this stage. He has responded well to that Subjeck loss though. Not sure we can count on a point from 141 and 133 is not looking good either. 125 is going to be tough with how much experience is there with Suriano as a true freshman (he has been excellent to this point though). 197 will be interesting, Mouse looks like he could get a couple of wins but I'm not sure he can place. Bo should do fine at 184, it's a deep field though. Zain will Zain, Nolf will Nolf (and hopefully get his 1st title).
I just remain unconvinced so far this season. I think Oklahoma State and Ohio State could pose real threats to the title.
Mouse has been good for sure. It's tough for me to ignore the size disparity he sees on a regular basis though. I think he can certainly contend for a spot to place but I'm not positive about it.
Ok, raise your hand if you predicted Suriano would beat Schram and Cruz without giving up a point; and Nevills would beat Butler, Vollaro, and Dejournette, and Bo would pin his first 7 opponents?
The glass isn't just half full, it's four fifths full
I definitely raise my hand re Nevills since I have him in LMS. I also picked Suriano to be the Ridge Riley winner for the Lehigh dual but didn't expect him to not give up a point.
Mouse is helped by 97 not being a killer field this year and he has plenty of time to add some good bulk by March.
Thanks!! Had to look it up, appears he was injured in an 11/20 bout with Zavatsky. Was unaware...so much appreciated.
Yeah, Cutch will keep lifting to maintain or add good muscle during the season. Doing very well for just bumping up.
I didn't know about the staying up late celebrating PSU's B1G championship. I did notice with some surprise and amusement, that the team was playing a spirited game of "duck, duck, goose" before the meet. Never saw anything like that before a dual (do they do that every match?). As fast as they were running around the circle I wondered if someone might sprain their ankle pre-match. I don't know if Cortez played, but I did see Cenzo playing. If he was sick enough to question his starting, I'm surprised he would have been playing that game pre-match.
Yes, RoarLions that would be great. I first meant GOLDBANGER in Okl City him and his buddies where at the same hotel..We would always talk wrestling out side having our smokes lol great time. maybe when he emails me his cell phone # we could set up a place to meet Wed nite. He stays at the Missouri atheltic club and I will be at the Marriott St. Louis Grand on 800 Washington ave.
so.... black holes mean they may not be AAs... not the best descriptors but is certainly a glass almost full view!
In theory, where would you guys expect Hall to be ranked and finish at NCAA's if his shirt was pulled? Just wondering what the advantage/difference is between he and GM/SR.
Cortez was definitely not right. That being said Parker manhandled him
Gulibon losing to Cruz is probably expected at this point
Preisch is tough. I do find the Rasheed/Morelli dynamic interesting. Rasheed kind of died near the end there, and clearly didn't finish anywhere near the pace he did before the eventually reversed TD. Rasheed is a fan favorite because he's flashy but have to think Morelli would've at least done as well in that match.
Re: Mark Hall - hard to tell where to rank him. Brucki isn't ranked. I'd like to think he would at least AA, but his best win is over Josef Johnson. Would think if he went off RS right now he would be in the high tens.
Gulibon losing to Cruz is probably expected at this point
Preisch is tough. I do find the Rasheed/Morelli dynamic interesting. Rasheed kind of died near the end there, and clearly didn't finish anywhere near the pace he did before the eventually reversed TD. Rasheed is a fan favorite because he's flashy but have to think Morelli would've at least done as well in that match.
Re: Mark Hall - hard to tell where to rank him. Brucki isn't ranked. I'd like to think he would at least AA, but his best win is over Josef Johnson. Would think if he went off RS right now he would be in the high tens.
