Jacob Warner is the REAL DEAL

[TangSoo]

I'm sure Spencer's take on how people reacted to his loss is a little more accurate than yours as a fan in one corner of the arena. Or are you more aware of what people said to Spencer than he is?

Also, was there really a standing o? That's insane/ridiculous if so. I've only seen standing o in Iowa for 4 timers. A standing o because Desantos beat the most storied hs wrestler in PA history when he was injured and sick?

Yeah keep trying to convince yourself people reacted that way out of support for Desantos and not as a spite bc Lee committed to Iowa.

Your knowledge of PA wrestling could not fill the cap of a vodka bottle. PA wrestling was great long, long before Penn State was great. It is it's own entity. Stands on it's own. Not tied to the hip with one college program. Has fueled MANY college programs for years. Get your head around that. You have no clue about how people who love high school wrestling and don't even follow college wrestling (and there are many of them in PA) felt about that match.
And many people were unaware of the severity of Spencer's injury. Spencer earned mad respect (albeit after the fact). Desanto being THE greatest underdog in PA high school wrestling history had nothing to do with Spencer's choice of college. Half of that arena could've given a shit about PSU let alone Iowa. Iowa? Seriously?
But you guys are on the right track. Populate your team with kids from within 2 hours of Penn State and you'll remain in the discussion (course Carl/Bael will always have the pick of the litter with the occasional outlier - Spencer).
Until we get a realistic threat in place, and I'm sure I speak for many, I hope Spencer wins 125 every year. Great wrestler and representative of PA wrestling.

 

[Pennstate1985]

You're going to sit here and tell me straight faced that no one in that arena was celebrating Spencer Lee losing out of spite to him signing with Iowa?

Were people high fiving and giving a standing ovation because of Joseph's victory or Martinez's loss? I'm sure Martinez didn't have an immediate warm and fuzzy over the reaction to his loss and probably took it a little personal (who wouldn't - I would), but upon reflection probably sees it as somewhat of a compliment that a guy beating him got that kind of reaction.

 

[tikk10]

I'm sure Spencer's take on how people reacted to his loss is a little more accurate than yours as a fan in one corner of the arena. Or are you more aware of what people said to Spencer than he is?

Also, was there really a standing o? That's insane/ridiculous if so. I've only seen standing o in Iowa for 4 timers. A standing o because Desantos beat the most storied hs wrestler in PA history when he was injured and sick?

Yeah keep trying to convince yourself people reacted that way out of support for Desantos and not as a spite bc Lee committed to Iowa.

I get it that coming here to rehash perceived sleights and old and done arguments is cheaper than addressing your anger through therapy but it's boring for everyone else.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I honestly don't believe more than a few people used the PSU angle to boo Spencer.

Lol, I take it you've never been to NCAAs.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Lol, I take it you've never been to NCAAs.

I take it you won't be commenting on the Dan Gable video? Not fit your story?

 

[dicemen99]

You're telling me if Lee was committed to PSU, Desantos would have got a standing o? That's a laugh.

Yes. Seriously, you are clueless on this subject.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I take it you won't be commenting on the Dan Gable video? Not fit your story?

Not mutually exclusive.

 

[dicemen99]

The compliance letters are starting to make sense now.

I've been following PA high school wrestling since the 80s. Been to Hershey too many times to count. Not to toot my own horn but my opinion on the PA high school wrestling scene has a column on what of the top wrestling web sites a couple times a month. I think I probably have a better pulse on what the crowd was like than you sitting behind your screen 1000 miles away and, yes, a wrestler who had just lost for the first time in his career in the biggest match of his career in perhaps the biggest upset in PIAA history as the crowd stood and cheered.

Jeff is a member here and not only is he a much more credentialed and accomplished journalist than me, he is also a huge Spencer Lee fan and the producer of a great documentary on him. Perhaps he could weigh in on the crowds motivation for your benefit.

For you to think that Iowa played a significant role in that is delusional and indicative of a fan who still thinks we are in the 80s.

 

[WildTurk]

Are you guys really bringing that up again? Geez people. Cheer for him or don't cheer for him. Spencer Lee don't care. Warnerov doesn't care either.

 

[El-Jefe]

Sorry......I wish I could agree with you but the video of the match is quite clear. That is exactly what happened in Hershey. Watch the video. Check Spencer Lee's comments. It was not a good look. I am certain ( I hope ) that it was not the reflection of the majority....but it definitely happened.

"Watch the video" is hilariously bad lecturing. Many people here were at the arena, and many others watched it live on PCN TV.

I saw it at the time and a few times since. The fans booed Lee for taking his time to return to mat after stoppages, to the point that the ref had to come over and remind him to get moving. And the fans cheered DeSanto winning, not Lee losing.

Lee's comments are irrelevant. Is it possible that 5 fans out of 5,000 did what you said? Of course, anything is possible -- but making it into "the fans" did this is frankly a slur.

 

[dunkej01]

I stood and cheered for a great match. They were both champions in my book. Im willing to bet that is what most of the clapping was for. If there people or idiots in the crowd, they were probably a small-small minority.

Vodka, your game seems to be thin on reality, strong on delusion and what appears to be a desire for martyrdom by getting the ban hammer.

 

[El-Jefe]

Were people high fiving and giving a standing ovation because of Joseph's victory or Martinez's loss? I'm sure Martinez didn't have an immediate warm and fuzzy over the reaction to his loss and probably took it a little personal (who wouldn't - I would), but upon reflection probably sees it as somewhat of a compliment that a guy beating him got that kind of reaction.

"Watch the video" you'll see a whole bunch of Cornell fans jumping around

Cornell fans hate Penn State. But historical moment.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Is it common for a one time champ to get a standing o?

To put it another way with a more recent event, I stood an clapped at the end of the Lizak-Picc match Sunday. Not because I liked Lizak, hated Picc, or how the match came out, but because both young men wrestled their butts off for 7 minutes and I think that deserves applause. About half the crowd seemed to do the same. Sometimes things are different than what they seem to someone directly involved. JMO

 

[Onceafish]

I beg your pardon, but Dixon would be about 4th team in our room. But he is OU's starter....

D'oh! Apologies.

 

[aalion]

Yes.....I purposely put that in there because it has been used recently on BWI threads to insult Michigan. Pointing it out as an example of nasty vitriol.......ie....not acceptable in my view.

OK. I see it all the time (along w Butgers and others) and I think it is really childish. Seemed strange in the context of how you used it. thanks for clarifying.

 

[Onceafish]

Here are comments about Nick Lee from the Clarion Open on this board.

“He is mini Zain. Not going on a limb here but I guarentee he’ll be our guy in March”

“Lee is straight up mauling guys this tournament. Tough in all areas. I know it's not the greatest competition but he's really looking good on top for a FR”

“Wow did Nick Lee look like Nolf there. Complete and utter destruction. Next up is #10 Zacherl in the finals.”

“I've seen Nick Lee wrestle many times since his frosh year in HS. I've seen him destroy many guys, but WOW! Shoop was an NCAA Qualifier,no?”

“I keep upping my prediction on nick...He is no doubt a top 3 at 141!!!! I now think he is absolutely a champion after a season of improvement....IE- see Hall, and even V Joseph...and yes I know he is a true freshman but being at PSU as long as he has he is no ordinary true freshman!!! THIS KID IS FOR REAL!!!!
Edit- That loss does not change my mind..he will figure it out and looked great!!!”

“Zacherl without a single stall call in that match. Had to be in Clarion.
Block, block, block. Two nice reattack doubles in the second as Nick just is a little too aggressive here.
Not much I would be worried about. Kid still is going to be great.”

And he lost in the final to the 10th ranked wrestler. Warner beats a 2 time AA and a guy currently ranked third and gets no credit cause Miklus is overrated and coming off an injury which is a year old. So the only reason to downgrade the win is because he wrestles for Iowa? Makes no sense.

You missed my point.

Iowa fans should be excited about Warner. I know I would be.

But based on all of his results this year, and not just the Miklus flogging, there is no good reason to think burning his shirt would make a difference in March.

 

[aalion]

"Watch the video" you'll see a whole bunch of Cornell fans jumping around

Cornell fans hate Penn State. But historical moment.

Speaking of the Cenzo-IMar video... which I know alot of us have seen about 100 times. Has anyone else noticed the Missouri fan in the background as Cenzo is celebrating with his parents? This guy must have been trying his best "Mike Evans is still not impressed" imitation as he stands with a smirk and arms firmly folded while everyone around him is going crazy... cracks me up every time I see it.

 

[D3wrestler]

Yes.....I purposely put that in there because it has been used recently on BWI threads to insult Michigan. Pointing it out as an example of nasty vitriol.......ie....not acceptable in my view.

No you weren't.

 

[El-Jefe]

To put it another way with a more recent event, I stood an clapped at the end of the Lizak-Picc match Sunday. Not because I liked Lizak, hated Picc, or how the match came out, but because both young men wrestled their butts off for 7 minutes and I think that deserves applause. About half the crowd seemed to do the same. Sometimes things are different than what they seem to someone directly involved. JMO

Impossible. You did not give either of them a standing o, because neither of them is a 4x champ. Or even a 1x champ.

 

[WildTurk]

As long as the fans aren't kneeling after a match im good with it!

 

[horraybeer]

A kid from Lewisburg got a huge Ovation when he rode Kolat out in the third period to hold it to a decision.

 

[El-Jefe]

A kid from Lewisburg got a huge Ovation when he rode Kolat out in the third period to hold it to a decision.

You made that up. It didn't happen, because our superiors told us that PA fans do not cheer against future PSU wrestlers, also do not give standing ovations to 1x champs like Joel Toretti.

 

[TangSoo]

Are you guys really bringing that up again? Geez people. Cheer for him or don't cheer for him. Spencer Lee don't care. Warnerov doesn't care either.

Kinda trollish. Your compliance office brought up Spencer..........I get it man. Too many PSU posters come over and crap on your front porch. You returning the favor still not a good look for you.

Personally, I don't go over there. Too much Bael/Carl, Sandusky crap to wade through to read anything worthwhile. Sad that it's come to this on both sites.

 

[smalls103]

I'd be upset if a wrestler that (had never won a state title) dropped a weight on a real life 'vision quest' to wrestle someone in the conversation as the greatest hs wrestler of all time and then won did NOT elicit a standing O.

heck - i remember a standing O when a wholly unheralded kid from greensburg salem nearly beat a 3xer (Matt Ciasulli) in state finals. He LOST and they applauded him. It's not hate; it's context and appreciation.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Don't have to watch the video because I was there and it is quite obvious you weren't with your take but I get that the ride from Cedat Falls may be too long so I'll give you a pass.

And I prefer not to have my take colored listening to the comments of an 18 year old kid who just lost for the first time in the biggest match of his career as the crowd gave a standing ovation for his opponent. Tough spot for him but his view of what happened up there is a little skewed.

Sir. If you were sitting on the side where Spencer walked on and off the mat and did not hear the word "Traitor" yelled....I would find that difficult to believe. I have ears the size of Satellite dishes. Someone once said I look like a 1950's taxi going down the road with the doors open. I laughed....hard. Yes...it makes me ugly as heck.....but my hearing is pretty darn good

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Lol, I take it you've never been to NCAAs.

I was at NCAAs when the Iowa fans started booing Kyle Dake during his interview after beating St. John and then the rest of the fans drowned out the Iowa fans with cheers. Great moment; happy to have been a part.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Sir. If you were sitting on the side where Spencer walked on and off the mat and did not hear the word "Traitor" yelled....I would find that difficult to believe.

So what? Any number of kooks exist out there with an infinite number of slights and wrongs done to them personally that need to be addressed by a kid in a singlet.

 

[Sportfan2017]

"Watch the video" is hilariously bad lecturing. Many people here were at the arena, and many others watched it live on PCN TV.

I saw it at the time and a few times since. The fans booed Lee for taking his time to return to mat after stoppages, to the point that the ref had to come over and remind him to get moving. And the fans cheered DeSanto winning, not Lee losing.

Lee's comments are irrelevant. Is it possible that 5 fans out of 5,000 did what you said? Of course, anything is possible -- but making it into "the fans" did this is frankly a slur.

Did you miss the part where I said that I was certain that it was not the reflection of the majority?

 

[Gebmo]

Sir. If you were sitting on the side where Spencer walked on and off the mat and did not hear the word "Traitor" yelled....I would find that difficult to believe. I have ears the size of Satellite dishes. Someone once said I look like a 1950's taxi going down the road with the doors open. I laughed....hard. Yes...it makes me ugly as heck.....but my hearing is pretty darn good

You guys are still missing the point. There were 5000 people there, many of whom (including you) have said in this thread they didn't do that and wouldn't....nor would most. There are always a loud few.

I am from Philly, lifelong fan and have had to listen to countless people on ESPN talking about me as a fan. I have never booed Mike Schmidt, Scott Rolen or even JD Drew. Never booed anyone. Never threw snowballs at Santa (admittedly have a lousy arm though). 83 % (couldn't resist) of fans have never done any of the stuff that is talked about. I sat in the Vet countless times (even in the 700's) and it is still the few (and the drunk...at stadiums) that are at EVERY sports place you go, that give the many a bad rep.

This is a non-issue, though I understand how it must have felt to Spencer. Certainly one of the greatest upsets in PA sports history. How could people not go nuts?

I see your update, but the point remains. You called it out as a problem...

 

[El-Jefe]

Did you miss the part where I said that I was certain that it was not the reflection of the majority?

Yes, I missed where you said that in the original post, where you accused the Giant Center audience of booing Lee and cheering his loss because he's going to Iowa instead of PSU.

You made the accusation. Own it.

I am the guy that started the thread. I did so because I have been watching Warner wrestle for a while and thought his motor and quickness were pretty special. Partly because of him....I rated Iowa's 2017 recruiting class as #1. He doesn't "Look" that strong and I was a little concerned he might have trouble with big 197 lbers. That no longer concerns me.....hence the thread. I have been a PSU fan since I was 10. I didn't graduate from PSU but I am still a fan....a Sports Fan. I call them as I see them. I try not to throw hate or criticize kids. I couldn't believe people booed Spencer Lee at states and cheered when he lost. One of the greatest wrestlers to step foot on a Pa. mat gets booed?? Because he didn't sign with PSU.....really not cool....very weak. I am a PSU fan....but also a sports fan. My advice.....root for your team and stop the blatant nasty vitriol towards Michigan or Iowa or Rutgers etc. Justifying it with "They did it first" or "They do it worse" is 5th grade stuff......and that may be an insult to 5th graders......let's do better. Peace

 

[Sportfan2017]

Yes, I missed where you said that in the original post, where you accused the Giant Center audience of booing Lee and cheering his loss because he's going to Iowa instead of PSU.

You made the accusation. Own it.

Of course I own what I said. I didn't make an ACCUSATION....I stated FACTS on what actually happened. I did not say "The Giant Center audience"......booed. That would mean the entire audience did it. I said "people". When those few people are yelling "Traitor" and "Loser" and you hear them saying things about failing in Iowa or should have gone to PSU as he is walking by.....it is a 100% clear indicator of why those particular people were booing and cheering. I stated exactly that....that those people were yelling and booing because he chose Iowa instead of PSU. Not an accusation....a fact. I said it was a bad look. Similar comments were made on this board about Lee when he committed to Iowa....and later about Suriano. I simply encouraged people to do better. For that I get called a Liar....and have my words distorted and exaggerated...ie "The Giant Center audience" I still think we should do better. Peace

 

[Lattner]

Anyone who says "peace" , in any context, is not a wrestling fan.

 

[tikk10]

I stated exactly that....that those people were yelling and booing because he chose Iowa instead of PSU. Not an accusation....a fact. I said it

How is that a "fact" when others, including people who were there, have said that the booing occurred in the context of Lee repeatedly getting back to the center slowly, as if he was buying time. The only ascertainable fact is that there was booing, the Why is a whole other matter, and unless you surveyed the people booing I'm more inclined to believe the more plausible reason, i.e., he was in trouble and appeared to be stalling, all compounded by his being a heavy favorite against a game underdog.

 

[liex26]

Anyone who says "peace" , in any context, is not a wrestling fan.

Rest In Peace Sammy Brooks

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Here is the entire Lee/DeSanto match from the floor of the Giant Center (includes about 2 minutes of crowd reaction after the match) Think it's pretty clear the cheering wasn't from a bunch of angry Penn State fans. These people knew they just witnessed an epic upset and some PIAA wrestling history.

 

[PSUer1989]

You're going to sit here and tell me straight faced that no one in that arena was celebrating Spencer Lee losing out of spite to him signing with Iowa?

PA is not quite the same as Iowa. Iowa has 3 DI teams...PA has 11. I am pretty sure that fans of Bucknell, Pitt, Lehigh, LHU etc. don't mind one bit that a stud wrestler got away from PSU.

 

[Sportfan2017]

How is that a "fact" when others, including people who were there, have said that the booing occurred in the context of Lee repeatedly getting back to the center slowly, as if he was buying time. The only ascertainable fact is that there was booing, the Why is a whole other matter, and unless you surveyed the people booing I'm more inclined to believe the more plausible reason, i.e., he was in trouble and appeared to be stalling, all compounded by his being a heavy favorite against a game underdog.

Yes.....I heard the booing during the match and I saw Lee getting up slowly and walking back slowly....perfectly understandable booing. Please read my comment again. "As he was walking by" Lee walked by my section on the way off the mat. The match was over. The comments I stated and similar ones were made as he walked on and off. The "Loser" comment was only yelled after the match. I didn't have to survey anyone. They made their comments loud and clear. There was/is no doubt that some wished him Ill will in Iowa and referred to him as a traitor for not going to PSU. They said/yelled it loud enough for me to hear clearly. Some of the things were apparently loud enough for Spencer to hear as well. So......since I am an "Earwitness".....yes.....definitely an ascertainable fact.

 

[tikk10]

Yes.....I heard the booing during the match and I saw Lee getting up slowly and walking back slowly....perfectly understandable booing. Please read my comment again. "As he was walking by" Lee walked by my section on the way off the mat. The match was over. The comments I stated and similar ones were made as he walked on and off. The "Loser" comment was only yelled after the match. I didn't have to survey anyone. They made their comments loud and clear. There was/is no doubt that some wished him Ill will in Iowa and referred to him as a traitor for not going to PSU. They said/yelled it loud enough for me to hear clearly. Some of the things were apparently loud enough for Spencer to hear as well. So...yes.....definitely an ascertainable fact.

I'll go on using my own narrower definition of the term "fact," one that's served me well to this point.

 

[lobo lion]

Anyone who says "peace" , in any context, is not a wrestling fan.

Spyker once said he was going to "get me a peace of Nico in The Room," and we know he's a YUGE wrestling fan.

 

[Sportfan2017]

I'll go on using my own narrower definition of the term "fact," one that's served me well to this point.

I believe there is only one definition of the word fact. It either happened or it didn't. The great thing about facts is that they are true whether or not you choose to believe them.