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James Franklin has a loser mentality

ryoder1 said:
His statement is not horrible but is still flawed in my opinion. I don't think he should have said the last part; "but we are one of the few programs in the country you can win 10 or 11 games and people are unhappy." Why say people are unhappy and bring in a negative? I understand he is trying to prop up the program and say winning 10-11 is not good enough but he already said that and this is poorly worded. Sounds a little whiney and defensive. He made the point that the expectations are to compete for championships in the first part of the quote. It would have been nice to add to win championships.
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Exactly...no need to even mention the 'people are unhappy part.' It's lame and comes across as complaining about fans who might not entirely be satisfied. Just leave it as 'we've been winning 10 to 11 games most seasons, but our expectations are championships.' That's all...this conflating it with the 'fans' is unnecessary. And, it isn't the first time he says this.
 
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IMHO, I don't think people would be as unhappy with a 10-2 record, if it wasn't for these records:

1-9 vs. O$U....includes 7 straight losses
3-7 vs. MI....includes 3 straight losses
5-5 vs. MSU
 
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scrivener said:
Exactly...no need to even mention the 'people are unhappy part.' It's lame and comes across as complaining about fans who might not entirely be satisfied. Just leave it as 'we've been winning 10 to 11 games most seasons, but our expectations are championships.' That's all...this conflating it with the 'fans' is unnecessary. And, it isn't the first time he says this.
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He also said that the persons INSIDE the Lasch Building are unhappy with 10-11 wins. Some posters have now stooped to a new low of complaining about his comments on media day. Geez.
 
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PSUWrestlingFanSince2011 said:
I just don't see the point of a coach saying this, besides trying to lower expectations and to try and take pressure off himself. I don't like the message that it sends the team. Yeah we won 10 games last year, who was our best win, Iowa?
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Iowa was ranked and had a 10-win season in the Big 10. That's a win against a ranked opponent.
 
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Woodpecker said:
Can you find me that quote?
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"We're trying to win football games, don't misunderstand that," said Paterno, "But I don't want it to ruin our lives if we lose. I don't want us ever to become the kind of place where an 8-2 season is a tragedy. Look at that day outside. It's clear. It's beautiful, the leaves are turning, the land is pretty and it's quiet. If losing a game made me miserable, I couldn't enjoy such a day."
Joe Paterno
 
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Major college coaches with 10+ years heading coaching experience with a
better won-loss percentage than James Franklin:

Dabo Swinney 16 170-43 .798
Brian Kelly 20 186-69 .729
Mike Gundy 19 166-79 .678
James Franklin 13 112-54 .675

That's it, and none of those ahead of him ever coached in the SEC at VANDERBILT.
 
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saturdaysarebetter2 said:
Major college coaches with 10+ years heading coaching experience with a
better won-loss percentage than James Franklin:

Dabo Swinney 16 170-43 .798
Brian Kelly 20 186-69 .729
Mike Gundy 19 166-79 .678
James Franklin 13 112-54 .675

That's it, and none of those ahead of him ever coached in the SEC at VANDERBILT.
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Is it fair to say someone who coached a 10-2 team is a loser? Obviously, ten times out of twelve, they are winners.

I think the OP should say he doesn't have a "championship mentality".
 
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bvillebaron said:
He also said that the persons INSIDE the Lasch Building are unhappy with 10-11 wins. Some posters have now stooped to a new low of complaining about his comments on media day. Geez.
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Bville...you know he didn't just say this on media day. He mentions this frequently in different ways...but references the "10-11 wins" and "unhappy fans," in different iterations. You know he does. There is no need to mention it this way, with the subtext coming on heavy. We get it.

He has elevated the floor the last two seasons at 10 wins -- which is great. No doubt about that. Now, it's time to elevate that. But, to frequently do the "fans are unhappy with 10-11 wins, so are we, etc." stuff, it comes across as saying well if the fans are upset, we must be to. Sorry, it just doesn't scan well IMO. Doesn't mean I'm a 'hater' which you claim everyone who has a criticism to be.
 
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saturdaysarebetter2 said:
"We're trying to win football games, don't misunderstand that," said Paterno, "But I don't want it to ruin our lives if we lose. I don't want us ever to become the kind of place where an 8-2 season is a tragedy. Look at that day outside. It's clear. It's beautiful, the leaves are turning, the land is pretty and it's quiet. If losing a game made me miserable, I couldn't enjoy such a day."
Joe Paterno
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1996 - "I think we have to understand that we’re not going to win every game. We’re going to lose some games. I think we have to be realistic about it."
 
LMTLION said:
The facts of this quote unfortunately do mot support the fire franklin crowd!
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Did we say to fire him? No. Stop with the bs. If he wants to say this after the season is over, whatever. But what kind of a message is this to send your team before the season even starts. Hey guys 9 wins + a bowl win is great. The fans wont be happy but dont mind them.

Sounds like Franklin may not be too confident with this team and is already trying to soften the blow when he misses the playoff.
 
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scrivener said:
Exactly. I would venture to guess most coaches give the line they expect to compete and win for championships and that's the goal etc.,.... as they should because that should be the goal to reach the pinnacle, the zenith of your profession or why do it?

I can't remember hearing any head coaches of true Blue bloods continually push this 10 win narrative each and every year. But I guess for some that satisfying.
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And its different to say this after the season is over but to say this before the season is just pathetic.
 
LMTLION said:
Are you kidding me? He said it’s several times in the 1990s and 2000s, particularly during press conferences. And it upset a lot of PSU fans. I’m sure if he was alive today he would not appreciate PSU fans slicing up a Franklin press conference to falsely convince people that Franklin is a loser and needs to go.
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Revisionist history apparently. After Joe said that it was common to see posts simply saying "lower your expectations" all over the message boards after every loss.
 
saturdaysarebetter2 said:
Awful representative of the university.

View embedded media
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yeah. he handled himself very well, as he always does. he is a great ambassador for PSU and elevates the brand.

What we don't know is the senior administration's goals. Do they want to do what is necessary to win a Natty (UM cheated, can/will PSU survive that kind of thing in the post-Sandusky era?)? Or, are we happy with football being one of the ways to elevate the PSU brand as a way to support/market other income streams?
 
PSUWrestlingFanSince2011 said:
Did we say to fire him? No. Stop with the bs. If he wants to say this after the season is over, whatever. But what kind of a message is this to send your team before the season even starts. Hey guys 9 wins + a bowl win is great. The fans wont be happy but dont mind them.

Sounds like Franklin may not be too confident with this team and is already trying to soften the blow when he misses the playoff.
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Except that's not at all what Franklin said, so there's that.
 
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PSUWrestlingFanSince2011 said:
What kind of message does this send to your team?

View embedded media
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what's better - to say your goal is to play for and win c
saturdaysarebetter2 said:
"We're trying to win football games, don't misunderstand that," said Paterno, "But I don't want it to ruin our lives if we lose. I don't want us ever to become the kind of place where an 8-2 season is a tragedy. Look at that day outside. It's clear. It's beautiful, the leaves are turning, the land is pretty and it's quiet. If losing a game made me miserable, I couldn't enjoy such a day."
Joe Paterno
Click to expand...
Now you did it.
 
Obliviax said:
yeah. he handled himself very well, as he always does. he is a great ambassador for PSU and elevates the brand.

What we don't know is the senior administration's goals. Do they want to do what is necessary to win a Natty (UM cheated, can/will PSU survive that kind of thing in the post-Sandusky era?)? Or, are we happy with football being one of the ways to elevate the PSU brand as a way to support/market other income streams?
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That's really the only question that matters but you can't even bring that up here or everyone's head explodes. The University seems to be more than happy with where we are at. At least for now.

Not that it matters, but I spent a week on vacation with a player and his family this spring. I didn't know them ahead of time but spent a few hours with them every day. They couldn't stop gushing about Franklin. They love him. That doesn't mean that everyone does, but he certainly seems to have a great relationship with his players, he looks out for them and protects them. Sometimes I think to the point that it impacts our competitiveness. So is this important or should we only care about wins and losses?
 
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scrivener said:
Exactly...no need to even mention the 'people are unhappy part.' It's lame and comes across as complaining about fans who might not entirely be satisfied. Just leave it as 'we've been winning 10 to 11 games most seasons, but our expectations are championships.' That's all...this conflating it with the 'fans' is unnecessary. And, it isn't the first time he says this.
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Why does he even reference fans? By "people" he is including fans. I don't want James Franklin caring what fans think. And he does. Nick Saban didn't care.

This is what he thinks....I win 10 games and these fans are not happy. Can you believe that? Just comes off as such a crybaby.
 
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wilbury said:
That's really the only question that matters but you can't even bring that up here or everyone's head explodes. The University seems to be more than happy with where we are at. At least for now.

Not that it matters, but I spent a week on vacation with a player and his family this spring. I didn't know them ahead of time but spent a few hours with them every day. They couldn't stop gushing about Franklin. They love him. That doesn't mean that everyone does, but he certainly seems to have a great relationship with his players, he looks out for them and protects them. Sometimes I think to the point that it impacts our competitiveness. So is this important or should we only care about wins and losses?
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Of course it’s important. We Are Penn State, Great Experiment and more.

Recruits feel it. Recruits’ families feel it. Helps recruiting. Helps the team.

I am quite sure it gnaws at Franklin that he has a poor record against tOSU. Has to eat at him.

He has 2-3 years to make the jump. If not, the pressure on the administration to make a change will be huge.
 
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wilbury said:
That's really the only question that matters but you can't even bring that up here or everyone's head explodes. The University seems to be more than happy with where we are at. At least for now.

Not that it matters, but I spent a week on vacation with a player and his family this spring. I didn't know them ahead of time but spent a few hours with them every day. They couldn't stop gushing about Franklin. They love him. That doesn't mean that everyone does, but he certainly seems to have a great relationship with his players, he looks out for them and protects them. Sometimes I think to the point that it impacts our competitiveness. So is this important or should we only care about wins and losses?
Click to expand...
This is a nice note...and not surprising to hear. JF comports himself as a good ambassador for all of athletics, not just football. He is a relationship guy and seemingly does very well with the parents. I am happy to have him as the leader of the program, and not in the 'fire him' camp...not sure anyone on here is. But, unfortunately, any criticism that is levied on these boards (I'm one of them), automatically induces a reply from fan boys that we are in the 'fire him' camp. It's just ridiculous.

Multiple things can be true...JF is undoubtedly a respected face amongst the higher ups of the University and is widely considered a good, solid guy who believes in relationships, that is awesome and makes PSU alumni proud.

But, he is an average coach at best against other very talented, well coached football teams. He has elevated the floor for PSU the last two years to 10 regular season wins...that is nothing to scoff at and took a ton of hard work. But, we are a program that has multiple national championships, got screwed out of more when Joe was around....and has an unmatched alumni base to go with it. There is no reason why PSU shouldn't be in the December conversation here and there.

Again, don't inflate what I'm getting at like many sensitive posters do on here who think that aspiring for more means it's national title or bust and fire everyone. That's lunacy. I'm simply saying...if we as fans can't even expect and have playoff appearances say....2 of every 3 years...then what are we doing here? PSU can't be in the December and January playoff conversation here and there? Then why invest all of this. We should divest resources elsewhere and be Purdue or Rutgers and be happy then.

I think you can be both...a very good leader and friendly face, but also a coach that understands his limitations and is able to self-scout, change things up, hire talented people without worrying about ego, and develop skills to elevate the talent we have. TBH, I don't think JF does a very good job of the latter. To your point about maybe his demeanor protects the players that it affects competitiveness....that is an interesting point and one that is solely JF's responsibility. By now, he should have figured out to be their father-figure, friendly and trustworthy face, but also know when to lay the hammer down. It can't be all sunshine and roses and a sleepover camp -- which in my honest opinion, it sure seems like. Maybe the players need some piss & vinegar since player led leadership seems to be an issue often. I just don't think JF runs a tough enough program, combined with the nice things. Just my opinion.
 
wilbury said:
That's really the only question that matters but you can't even bring that up here or everyone's head explodes. The University seems to be more than happy with where we are at. At least for now.

Not that it matters, but I spent a week on vacation with a player and his family this spring. I didn't know them ahead of time but spent a few hours with them every day. They couldn't stop gushing about Franklin. They love him. That doesn't mean that everyone does, but he certainly seems to have a great relationship with his players, he looks out for them and protects them. Sometimes I think to the point that it impacts our competitiveness. So is this important or should we only care about wins and losses?
Click to expand...
Great to hear.

If I am a C-suite person at PSU, I put the university first and football second. In other words, how does the football program serve the university? Is it money, profit, PR, marketing... or what? I look at what are the hard and soft costs to get from 10-2 to 12-0? I then measure that against the revenue income to go from 10 wins to 12. If that number is black, I look into it. If it is Red, I stop there.

We are spending $700m on the stadium and it is a no-brainer. What other investments are needed?

wattsthesafeword-wts.gif
 
PSUSignore said:
Revisionist history apparently. After Joe said that it was common to see posts simply saying "lower your expectations" all over the message boards after every loss.
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Joe did want us to lower our expectations--he always wanted that to alleviate pressure on him and the team. It wasn't stupid by Joe but it was his intention
 
scrivener said:
This is a nice note...and not surprising to hear. JF comports himself as a good ambassador for all of athletics, not just football. He is a relationship guy and seemingly does very well with the parents. I am happy to have him as the leader of the program, and not in the 'fire him' camp...not sure anyone on here is. But, unfortunately, any criticism that is levied on these boards (I'm one of them), automatically induces a reply from fan boys that we are in the 'fire him' camp. It's just ridiculous.

Multiple things can be true...JF is undoubtedly a respected face amongst the higher ups of the University and is widely considered a good, solid guy who believes in relationships, that is awesome and makes PSU alumni proud.

But, he is an average coach at best against other very talented, well coached football teams. He has elevated the floor for PSU the last two years to 10 regular season wins...that is nothing to scoff at and took a ton of hard work. But, we are a program that has multiple national championships, got screwed out of more when Joe was around....and has an unmatched alumni base to go with it. There is no reason why PSU shouldn't be in the December conversation here and there.

Again, don't inflate what I'm getting at like many sensitive posters do on here who think that aspiring for more means it's national title or bust and fire everyone. That's lunacy. I'm simply saying...if we as fans can't even expect and have playoff appearances say....2 of every 3 years...then what are we doing here? PSU can't be in the December and January playoff conversation here and there? Then why invest all of this. We should divest resources elsewhere and be Purdue or Rutgers and be happy then.

I think you can be both...a very good leader and friendly face, but also a coach that understands his limitations and is able to self-scout, change things up, hire talented people without worrying about ego, and develop skills to elevate the talent we have. TBH, I don't think JF does a very good job of the latter. To your point about maybe his demeanor protects the players that it affects competitiveness....that is an interesting point and one that is solely JF's responsibility. By now, he should have figured out to be their father-figure, friendly and trustworthy face, but also know when to lay the hammer down. It can't be all sunshine and roses and a sleepover camp -- which in my honest opinion, it sure seems like. Maybe the players need some piss & vinegar since player led leadership seems to be an issue often. I just don't think JF runs a tough enough program, combined with the nice things. Just my opinion.
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I completely agree. No rationale person would want him fired now. He is a good representative for Penn State and it is great to hear the players love him. I do wish that love for him would come across in clutch moments of big games where they step up and execute in the big moment.

I do think the next 3 years are crucial for James. Playoff appearances are a must. And he has to improve his record in games versus teams of equal talent that are well coached. You are correct, he is an average at best game day coach and game strategist. He seems to come up small in big moments.

Finally, no complaint about NIL. That is now a new duty for the head coach of these major programs, how to increase and maximize NIL support. Franklin needs to do it.
 
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The Spin Meister said:
Of course it’s important. We Are Penn State, Great Experiment and more.

Recruits feel it. Recruits’ families feel it. Helps recruiting. Helps the team.

I am quite sure it gnaws at Franklin that he has a poor record against tOSU. Has to eat at him.

He has 2-3 years to make the jump. If not, the pressure on the administration to make a change will be huge.
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Experiments don't last for ever. The Experiment is over. It worked to a level but wasn't fully successful as we're approaching 40 years without a title.

Money helps recruiting. Playing time helps recruiting. Lies don't.

We do agree with the last sentence--he has 2-3 years.
 
bvillebaron said:
You conveniently omitted his statement immediately afterward that “That’s inside the Lasch building and outside the Lasch building. We totally get that and embrace that”. He also mentioned when discussing recruiting that kids come to Penn State with the goal of winning championships. Thankfully they are smarter than you.
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Thank you. It was a cheap shot for no reason taken totally out of context, because not all of his words were presented.
 
scrivener said:
Bville...you know he didn't just say this on media day. He mentions this frequently in different ways...but references the "10-11 wins" and "unhappy fans," in different iterations. You know he does. There is no need to mention it this way, with the subtext coming on heavy. We get it.

He has elevated the floor the last two seasons at 10 wins -- which is great. No doubt about that. Now, it's time to elevate that. But, to frequently do the "fans are unhappy with 10-11 wins, so are we, etc." stuff, it comes across as saying well if the fans are upset, we must be to. Sorry, it just doesn't scan well IMO. Doesn't mean I'm a 'hater' which you claim everyone who has a criticism to be.
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THIS! The problem is he is always hedging his positions and adding some unnecessary accolades or excuse that implies blame elsewhere. It's sort of a constant "this but that" dance that I am growing weary of. We lose to a bad Michigan State team in 2017 and it's we should have won, "BUT" we'll never be caught in such a disruptive weather delay again for this once in a lifetime scenario as unprepared as we were(are you a playoff team or not, James). After OSU, you get the "ELITE speech" about my players are going to have to bring notebooks around campus, sit at the front of the room, scratch and claw to get a little better." "HEY" we've been pretty damn good around here......as a University, a COMMUNITY, we need to battle 365 days a year in everything, everything we do!" It's just hard not to notice this underlying feeling of "hey, we're close, but I need more from everyone and if we come up short......damnit, 10 wins aint bad at most place you grumbling half-wit fans and administrators."

Lets kind of stop ignoring the elephant in the room too, we rarely play a schedule anymore, especially with added games, where anything less than 9 games would at all be acceptable considering what Penn State, the university, the fans, the resources/facilities would tolerate. Just say I measure success as 10 wins, or say....Championship or bust....stop splitting the baby with PR talk.
 
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ram2020 said:
THIS! The problem is he is always hedging his positions and adding some unnecessary accolades or excuse that implies blame elsewhere. It's sort of a constant "this but that" dance that I am growing weary of. We lose to a bad Michigan State team in 2017 and it's we should have won, "BUT" we'll never be caught in such a disruptive weather delay again for this once in a lifetime scenario as unprepared as we were(are you a playoff team or not, James). After OSU, you get the "ELITE speech" about my players are going to have to bring notebooks around campus, sit at the front of the room, scratch and claw to get a little better." "HEY" we've been pretty damn good around here......as a University, a COMMUNITY, we need to battle 365 days a year in everything, everything we do!" It's just hard not to notice this underlying feeling of "hey, we're close, but I need more from everyone and if we come up short......damnit, 10 wins aint bad at most place you grumbling half-wit fans and administrators."

Lets kind of stop ignoring the elephant in the room too, we rarely play a schedule anymore, especially with added games, where anything less than 9 games would at all be acceptable considering what Penn State, the university, the fans, the resources/facilities would tolerate. Just say I measure success as 10 wins, or say....Championship or bust....stop splitting the baby with PR talk.
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This year is a great year for Franklin to deliver. We always hear we would have made a 12 team playoff the past few years. I agree we would have so now it is a 12 teamer so deliver us into the playoffs.

Then in the playoff, as opposed to last year where we have these bs opt outs in useless bowl games we won't have that this year in a playoff game so show you can win with a full strength team.

I'm not asking for a NC (although that would be awesome). Rather, just stop with the 10-11 wins and I am patting myself on the back but these idiot people who know nothing are not satisfied script and just deliver on the field winning some big games.
 
ryoder1 said:
This year is a great year for Franklin to deliver. We always hear we would have made a 12 team playoff the past few years. I agree we would have so now it is a 12 teamer so deliver us into the playoffs.

Then in the playoff, as opposed to last year where we have these bs opt outs in useless bowl games we won't have that this year in a playoff game so show you can win with a full strength team.

I'm not asking for a NC (although that would be awesome). Rather, just stop with the 10-11 wins and I am patting myself on the back but these idiot people who know nothing are not satisfied script and just deliver on the field winning some big games.
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I believe Sherrone Moore said today at media day something of the sort that their goals are to win big games, beat OSU, win a B1G championship and a natl championship...and strive for perfection.

I mean, most every coach of a blue blood talks that way rather than the "our fanbase isn't happy with xx amount of wins, and neither are we" jargon. Yes, JF alludes to similar goals as everyone else, but he quantifies it with the 'wins' and 'fans' stuff. It's unnecessary and comes across as petty.
 
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scrivener said:
I believe Sherrone Moore said today at media day something of the sort that their goals are to win big games, beat OSU, win a B1G championship and a natl championship...and strive for perfection.

I mean, most every coach of a blue blood talks that way rather than the "our fanbase isn't happy with xx amount of wins, and neither are we" jargon. Yes, JF alludes to similar goals as everyone else, but he quantifies it with the 'wins' and 'fans' stuff. It's unnecessary and comes across as petty.
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Yep and it is not like we are Indiana or Purdue and he has raised us from a team that traditionally had losing seasons and now we win 10 games but these clowns still aren't satisfied.

We are a blue blood. Yes, I know we have not won a NC in decades and suffered through the Paterno dark years, etc. But the facts are we have a strong, proud football tradition with an incredible alumni and fan base. We pack over a hundred thousand in the Beav to see us play Akron. We should expect to compete for and win national championships. Not parrot 10-11 win season jargon. Is the Baltimore Ravens coach, John Harbaugh. talking about how they consistently win 12 games or how they won 13 games last year? No it is about winning titles.
 
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ryoder1 said:
He should of said ......"At Penn State we expect to compete for and win a championship every year. Our fans expect this, I expect this, my coaches expect this and most importantly our players expect this."

This crap he is saying is just that, crap. Geez, how are we going to beat Ohio State, Oregon, USC, Michigan. Washington, etc with this weak minded attitude?
Click to expand...

You = cretin.

But, you already are aware of that.
 
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The Spin Meister said:
What a loser mentality. Fire everybody !
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Truly. Remember the reports that USC was upset Oregon joined the conference? They were trying to shake their Oregon problem by leaving their nemesis behind to rot in a crumbling conference. I think USC will have a rough transition to this conference.
 
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