FWIW, I'd move Spanier up the list ahead of Schultz and Curley. If I'm in his position making a decision on this, I'd sure as hell have McQueary in my office telling me what he saw. That he didn't is inexcusable.
Juror speaks
- Thread starter LundyPSU
- Start date
FWIW, I'd move Spanier up the list ahead of Schultz and Curley. If I'm in his position making a decision on this, I'd sure as hell have McQueary in my office telling me what he saw. That he didn't is inexcusable.
There have been times when your arguments may have merited some debate; this is not one of those times.
Last edited:
What a foolish claim. Do you expect to be taken seriously when you post nonsense like that?
Exactly and in that respect they did what everyone else would have - report to his boss. They don't deserve the Monday morning QB routine they endured from the public.
Joe's my hero & defined success with honor. But he made mistakes.
In 3/2011 Joe would have known this was very likely to come out, and would be bad.
He should have done a few things right then, ASAP:
- Engage a crisis management team
- Document & certify his version of events thoroughly & in his own words for posterity & for use in the coming crisis
- Any financial actions needed (like selling his house to Sue for $1)
- Depending on the advice of his crisis team, potentially acknowledge early this was to be his last season
- Go through with his scheduled press conference & not accept it's cancellation. There are times to make a stand on the principle of honor & this was one. (What would they do, fire him???) Get his story out, in full, in his own words.
- If needed, to hold the press conference without being insubordinate, offer resignation. But hold the press conference.
- If those things are done, he wouldn't have issued a press release antagonizing the BoT and saying "they've got bigger things to worry about than me." He would have just offered his resignation/retired and let his actions speak.
Because they wanted to avoid the good publicity associated with putting a monster behind bars, in exchange for the potential negative publicity and jail time associated with running the worst cover up in the history of the world for a guy that didn't work for them and no one particularly liked..... RIGHT!
So you're saying that MM, his dad, or mandatory reporter Dr. Dranov should have reported it?
So if someone told you they saw two people engaged in horseplay, your next question would be to ask if they saw insertion?
Really?
Dr d and John sr have never used the term horse play.
I believe the term according to tim Curley came from coach paterno. I believe this is tims testimony. You all can correct me if I mis stated something.
One more note I would suggest all of you try this... go home... get undressed with your sign I ant other stand in a darker shower. Press up against them and wrap your arms around their waist and see if you or them think it is sexual or not. I am serious not trying to be a smart ass. We have two people with descriptions. Now throw in some slapping sounds or skin to skin sounds.
Anyway just a thought. Mind you... this is later at night in a big building mostly dark and no one around... so he thought.
I believe the term according to tim Curley came from coach paterno. I believe this is tims testimony. You all can correct me if I mis stated something.
One more note I would suggest all of you try this... go home... get undressed with your sign I ant other stand in a darker shower. Press up against them and wrap your arms around their waist and see if you or them think it is sexual or not. I am serious not trying to be a smart ass. We have two people with descriptions. Now throw in some slapping sounds or skin to skin sounds.
Anyway just a thought. Mind you... this is later at night in a big building mostly dark and no one around... so he thought.
With all due respect, do I need a stool for the 10 year old to stand on? Or is it best to ask Eschbach that question?
Last edited:
OK...fair enough...why didn't anyone call the police? Its a fair question to all involved. And, if they didn't call the police, why were they all not treated the same under the law?
But that is not how it was described to Dranov, according to his testimony
Exactly. He left it up to the jury to interpret his email and believe it or not the way she interpreted is not all that far-fetched to a non-PSU supporter. He also didn't refute Shultz's claim that he is the one who told him it was handled. Would it have been risky to put him on the stand? Sure, but it was also risky for him to have no rebuttal of the information fed to the jury by the others.
Lundy... we have always had cordial exchanges.
Why would mike report a kid and Jerry in shower if it looked normal. Mike at this point is very familiar with athletic shower activities etc... clearly he reports something way out of sorts.. why would dr dranov and John sr follow up at all over a non event.?
Just some thoughts. I don't claim to always be right or with out fault. I do strongly that mike has been the most direct most honest person in this event... yes I realize he is my brother.
Why would mike report a kid and Jerry in shower if it looked normal. Mike at this point is very familiar with athletic shower activities etc... clearly he reports something way out of sorts.. why would dr dranov and John sr follow up at all over a non event.?
Just some thoughts. I don't claim to always be right or with out fault. I do strongly that mike has been the most direct most honest person in this event... yes I realize he is my brother.
My question was more direct - you and others say you know he lied
So I'm simply asking what exactly did he lie about
Gee, could you tell us why his seminal statement to police about what he was doing immediately prior to going to Lasch changed so radically? So he remembers his conversation with Curley and Schultz in minute detail, but can't even recall the correct year the conversation took place? BTW, since he was so convinced a 10 year old child was being anally-raped in the Lasch Showers, could you tell us why he would leave the child there in the hands of his abuser? Also, if this is what Mike told your Dad and Dr. Dronov, could you tell us why your Dad and Dr. Dronov didn't call police? And why did both your Dad and Dr. Dranov testify that Mike never told them that he saw a sexual act or sexual assault?
That's simple, to CYA. He wasn't sure what he saw, so just in case it was bad, he figured he better tell someone. That's perfectly rational behavior. Just my opinion.
Others have put forth the theory that it was a way to get some face time with Joe with the newly opened job available.
Appreciate your perspective on the situation
There is a night and day difference between "out of sorts" or "not normal" ...and "definite sexual assault of a minor child."
He played the risk card by putting faith in Sandusky and basic human decency...which failed. He couldn't afford to play it again.
Is that version 2, 3, or 4 of the story? I don't remember. Was it the view in the mirror or over his shoulder? I can't keep them straight.
Except they went out of their way to distance 98 from 01. By distance I mean lie about having any knowledge of it at the time.
But other than that, which sinks the argument completely, great point.
And make sure to have that person not say another word about it for ten years.
If that's what he saw, why didn't he call the police? Why did he wait until the next day to make a report...to a football coach? Why did he NEVER call law enforcement...IF he KNEW that's what he saw??? Sorry, his story is not believable based upon his non-action.
Why did your dad not do a damned thing?
Why did might not tell anyone very clearly WTH happened?
I believe that he lied about not recalling various events. I don't find him credible in that aspect, just as the jury didn't as well. Also, Paterno's testimony and TC's contradict each other. I, again, do not find Tim credible and think he lied. I find it interesting that he reportedly remembered what Paterno's told him, but not MM, (per reports coming out of the trial). Funny how that worked out.
The record shows that they acknowledged 98 but we don't know to what degree and that's important. Joe checking in is just that... "hey, how is that investigation going...?" Nothing more than that. Let's not go all Freeh and assume there was any detailed discussions going on. They deserve the benefit of doubt and plausible deniability
It's true he isn't always wrong.......but he is never right.
Are you aware that Tim is fighting cancer and that those drugs have impact on long term memory? Let's cut Tim some slack. He ALWAYS did things with the utmost integrity as the AD and we must assume he held himself to the same standard with regard to Sandusky. This doesn't have to be nefarious and frankly trying to get Tim to incriminate Graham was a crass and criminal tactic by fatass Ditka.
Help us here Dukie. What would he report to administrators? What would he report to police? What would he not report?
Nobody is saying that he didn't see/hear nothing, but many of us need help reconciling what he saw/heard with his actions and the actions of others.
My question is, why does he remember what Paterno told him but not Mike (if the reports are correct)?
I am not saying it was a non event. But what Dranov (and even your dad) testified to was much different than the intercourse or sodomy that Mike claimed he witnessed.
What do you think Mike told his dad to prompt John to ask if Mike saw penetration?
