All that fine work and WV is still one of least diverse states in the union. It’s easy to say things for political gain, but no one really knows if he believed it. And I bet if Byrd was a Republican, the NAACP wouldn’t have defended him.
Kate Smith's statue...........
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Don’t hold your breath, he was a member of the protected political party.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Well yeah. The folks in NYC and Philly have a slightly different political lean.
How many years until Eddie Murphy Delerious gets permanently removed from all video archives?
I’m kidding. Sort of.
And there are a lot more important things in life than statues. Race relations being one. Do we really need to deify a woman who sang a song before hockey games? Statues are silly.
I agree......lets move on my friend. Having a statue removed won't solve anything.
As long as you get your way it's all fine. Nice try, jerk.
Again, who cares either way other than fanatics.
It really doesn't matter to me either. I agree, fanatics seem to dominate the narrative and the rest if us just shake our heads.
Hey, if you’re okay with hypocrisy then have at it....but I would say that makes you the stupid one. And if my ilk is those that oppose racism from people of all political backgrounds, then count me as a member of that ilk.
I favor keeping it up but then you are too blinded by stupidity to get that. I do think anyone who thinks this is important either way is an asshole with a twisted agenda - like you.
Huh? They had to. It's a different time, the backlash they would have gotten if they didn't means nothing to you? Have you not seen all the pregame crap they do before games to honor players and teams from 10,20,30 years ago? They start the games 30-40 minutes late because of them "living in the past".
This was hopefully the first step to a better future for the franchise.
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That's great but what about people who were never given the chance to defend themselves because they are dead - anyone come to mind?
Wait a second, an earlier poster said that because Robert Byrd supposedly "saw the light" later in life when it came to race issues, he's absolved from his earlier membership in the KKK and shrines to him are just fine and dandy. So I guess THAT toothpaste you can put back in the tube, eh? There's a word for your type of thinking...hypocrite. Since Byrd had a "D" after his name, his amazing metamorphosis is given full credit. Others, not so much.
No that toothpaste can't be put back in either. Did you think I would respond that way when you called me a hypocrite?
FU
What “others” are you referring to, specifically? Which “R” admitted to and atoned for past mistakes or activities in a similar fashion?
BINGO!!! This country and especially the media kowtows to the fanatics and special interests all the time.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Didn’t basically every agrarian landowner in the early US who could afford them? And to be clear, we’re talking about black slaves right now. People of every race owned slaves and people of every race were slaves. Look to the great buildings, etc. of antiquity. Good luck finding those created without slaves.
Thinking this through, all this hoopla is less about slavery or even mistreatment of people based on arbitrary attributes (like race) and more about symbolism and perspective. Kate Smith sang a less-known song (not god bless America) with a lyric that reflected a prevailing perspective of the time and which would be a major no-no today. That’s one strike against her. Another is that “god bless America” and the statue(s) of Kate Smith for singing it represent (at least for some) a glorification of that America, that sort of status quo.
So with social justice being a huge theme of the times (especially when race is involved), it isn’t surprising that with folks learning of this other song that people are now asking why we needed a statue of the Kate Smith in the first place and what the statue symbolized. Why didn’t they choose a statue of Francis Scott Key, or one of Whitney Houston in Tampa singing the national anthem before the 91 SB. It’s not the same as white-washing the world of Thomas Jefferson or George Washington, etc., which/who symbolized other things more than slavery. Kate Smith’s Statue was really just for her singing God Bless America.
For anyone interested, go into iTunes (or wherever) and listen to the intro of “this land is your land” on Bruce Springsteen and the e-street band live 1975-1985, which nutshells the song as a response “God bless America”. Interesting take.
Without all this thinking about it (or over-thinking, depending on one’s perspective), this Kate Smith stuff seems OOT and creates reasonable fear RE: white-washing of history and culture. I referenced Jefferson and a few other things in differing points above. I thought the whole thing is/was stupid. But I might feel (or before those posts, I guess might have felt) differently if I heard the song and/or looked at the statue and saw it as more than a lady who did a great job singing a song celebrating my country. And this discussion has even impacted my take on the whole issue. I don’t thibk I’d post those messages again now...
Not saying I now think the statue must go. Just sharing thoughts after thinking about it more. Seems a bit less crazy.
I am not currently affiliated with any political party, and happy to not be. Though I’m primarily a centrist, I’ve probably leaned slightly left over the years on various issues, all the while doing my best to educate myself on both sides and respecting my fellow citizens’ beliefs. I was taught by my parents that the vast majority of Americans want what is best for our country even if/when their means of betterment do not align with my own. That has always been a notion in which I have taken comfort.
That said, there was a time when PC was a necessary reminder that cultural norms needed to shift the pendulum in order to reflect a pervasive sense of decency for all of our citizens. IMO that pendulum needs to shift back...our collective sensitivity has become such a crutch that I’m amazed that any of us ever get along about anything. This is not to suggest that crass insensitivity needs to once again win the day, but rather that it wouldn’t hurt society to extract the giant stick currently residing in our collective arses and learn how to enjoy life again.
I agree that statues are silly... but who raised Kate up to be a god? Who was worshiping at her statue? The statue was a memorial, nothing more. I don't know a single person who considered, or even thought of, Kate Smith as being a god.
Interesting... I've never considered 'This Land is Your Land' to be the antithesis to 'God Bless America'. Both songs are meant to be inspirational and instill a sense of pride in our country. 'This Land is Your Land' also invokes the sense of a higher power (does not specifically name God)… the last line of stanza 3 reads:
"And all around me, a voice was sounding.
This land was made for you and me."
the last line of stanzas 4 and 6 read:
"The voice come chanting as the fog was lifting. This land was made for you and me."
It does not mention a gathering throng, it mentions only singular voice.
I am not a fan of B.S. "Born in the USA" is an anti-war song, and has as much place being played during Fourth of July Celebrations as The 1812 Overture.
Dead wrong.
The origins of "This Land" is that Woody Guthrie was irritated by Irving Berlin's "God Bless America," sung by Kate Smith, which seemed to be endlessly playing on the radio in the late 1930s. So he wrote the song as a retort, at first sarcastically calling it "God Blessed America for Me" before renaming it "This Land Is Your Land."
"This Land Is Your Land" is a very different song from "God Bless America".
But most don't know it, as these original "subversive" verses from Woody Guthrie's manuscript are usually left out of "This Land":
As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.
Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.
In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;
By the relief office, I'd seen my people.
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,
Is this land made for you and me?
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Thank you Lionroar88 and poker1 for furthering the point. There’s way more to this stuff than immediately meets the common eye/ear.
As I said, I started off thinking this Kate Smith stuff was simple and completely stupid. But I kept thinking about it, went to founding-father slave owners getting a seemingly inexplicable pass, then I remembered Springsteen’s intro/discussion of Woodie Guthrie’s message and kept on thinking.
And Lionroar88, major shout-out to you for getting the irony of playing Born in the USA and cheering to 1812 Overture on July 4. Weird to learn God Bless America may have a spot in that discussion... I still don’t know how I feel about it.
Nobody has deified her.... and she did a tad bit more than sing a song before some hockey games
It should be case by case. It's not bad to ask the question, it's only bad when people come up with the wrong answer.
I can see removing the confederate general statues because when they were installed in the 1910s and 1920s was quite literally the public face of the KKK which was extremely powerful and growing at the time.
I can see removing statues/building names for Woodrow Wilson because he wasn't just a typical racist for his time, he was a really die-hard racist who went out of his way to order black people fired from professional jobs throughout the federal government. I can see how it's downright weird for black students at Princeton to be having his statue watching them -- a man who never would have allowed black people to even get a college education.
But I'm not seeing the case for airbrushing out Kate Smith. I never liked Kate Smith but there's no evidence she was a racist.
I can see removing the confederate general statues because when they were installed in the 1910s and 1920s was quite literally the public face of the KKK which was extremely powerful and growing at the time.
I can see removing statues/building names for Woodrow Wilson because he wasn't just a typical racist for his time, he was a really die-hard racist who went out of his way to order black people fired from professional jobs throughout the federal government. I can see how it's downright weird for black students at Princeton to be having his statue watching them -- a man who never would have allowed black people to even get a college education.
But I'm not seeing the case for airbrushing out Kate Smith. I never liked Kate Smith but there's no evidence she was a racist.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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All good points. Certainly didn’t seem more racist than the sentiments of her day, not that those attitudes are/were ok, but they are our history. There’s something to be said for culture, history and perhaps more importantly here art. I’m more comfortable with cutting back the use of her singing the song as a symbolic gesture than I am in removing or defacing works of art that weren’t themselves symbols of oppression, hate or in most analyses patently offensive. People build statues to celebrate great contributors indefinitely. And in most cases, it’s those contributions that are being celebrated.
It’s alarming how swiftly these Kate Smith decisions are happening and that they’re being based on changing perspectives on some aspect that didn’t define her. The problem with her still doesn’t seem to be the thing being celebrated: her rendition of God Bless America, whether still a popular rendition or not.
Oh, yes. Especially when they are being politically correct about "patriotic" bullsh!t.
Jdm pointed out that Woody Guthrie wrote This Land because Irving Berlin's song irritated him.
Well, it looks like Miss God Bless America ain't so popular as she once was. See ya.
That people do not express their love of country the way they did 50 years ago is hardly a sign of the ruination of America.
So views have changed, and Kate's earlier blatant racism ain't just quaint anymore . So what?
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