Midlands Tournament Thread
- Thread starter dunkej01
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Fine, but you and Dice, in fact anyone that wants to have a two-man peeing contest, should just trade phone numbers and talk it out. Sure is sad to watch two grown men (assuming you're both grown-up, and men) dive into the gutter like that. There's an awful lot of folks that read this board for wrestling content, many don't even post.Dice called me out on HR and here for liking a match. I obliged him with response. Call it thin skin if you want. Just defending myself and Hawkeye wrestling. I won't bite on your explanation of Lee's loss either..
For myself, the first couple rounds are ok, after that not so much. Sure would be nice to see a mature adult walk away when it gets out of hand. I frankly don't care if it's the Iowa guy or the PSU guy. Truce anyone? We have a tournament to follow tomorrow!!
I followed the tourney and for the most part enjoyed it. Two comments.
One, while the amount of matches that were 0-0 after 1 and 1-1 going into overtime was way too many at the end, it takes two guys for that to happen. Some of it was because other guys were trying to keep it close with the Iowa wrestlers. Not everyone can force the action the way some of our guys do, and not everyone is an offensive machine. Everyone’s talents and abilities (physical and MENTAL) are different. Some of the “blame” has to go to the opponents also, right?
Some guys are great because they are Dikembe Mutombo types (all D, little O), others like Alex Ovechkin (all O, little D), but few like Mike Trout (all everything). We happen to have a bunch of Mike Trouts on the team and we get spoiled. Most guys are somewhere in the middle, but can’t be something they just aren’t. You would have been bored with me. Just not that talented.
Secondly, the one I give a pass to is Wilcke vs Warner. Matches between fairly even teammates who know each other really well seem to end up that way, and it would have been big for Wilcke to beat the hyped up Warner (hyped rightfully so).
One, while the amount of matches that were 0-0 after 1 and 1-1 going into overtime was way too many at the end, it takes two guys for that to happen. Some of it was because other guys were trying to keep it close with the Iowa wrestlers. Not everyone can force the action the way some of our guys do, and not everyone is an offensive machine. Everyone’s talents and abilities (physical and MENTAL) are different. Some of the “blame” has to go to the opponents also, right?
Some guys are great because they are Dikembe Mutombo types (all D, little O), others like Alex Ovechkin (all O, little D), but few like Mike Trout (all everything). We happen to have a bunch of Mike Trouts on the team and we get spoiled. Most guys are somewhere in the middle, but can’t be something they just aren’t. You would have been bored with me. Just not that talented.
Secondly, the one I give a pass to is Wilcke vs Warner. Matches between fairly even teammates who know each other really well seem to end up that way, and it would have been big for Wilcke to beat the hyped up Warner (hyped rightfully so).
Before we go all off to Rationalizeville to debate this detail or that detail this isn't about any specific example.
Tiger hit the nail square on the head. Iowa kids wrestling opponents with a relative pulse have a style. They believe nobody is better conditioned, which is generally a truism. Wrestling to that belief they handfight, maintain their position and push their opponent to the edge and from there wrestle not for a score but to secure a stall call. The coaches encourage it from the corner and from the corners they insistently berate the officials to call the stall.
After watching 2 days of the Midlands whether the above is an accurate description of "the Iowa syyle" isn't even debatable.
If the Iowa kid is on equal footing or maybe a little behind this gives the better conditioned athlete an advantage over 7 or 11 minutes. A problem beyond boring is this approach opens the superior athletes (Spencer and Thomas Gilman) to upsets.
Typically speaking Cory Clark and Tony Ramos (he did in his championship match) did not wrestle this way. Kemerer generally does not wrestle this way. His approach in the finals was unKemerer like.
Iowa can coach whatever way they damn well see fit and believe will lead to success.
But gee whiz guys, and you too vodka, if the Hawks are going to wrestle to secure stall calls instead of offensive points and continuously seem to be finishing 3rd or 4th @ B10s or 4th, 5th or 6th at nationals you all need to quit getting your panties in a bunch.
I will let you in on the open secret. By March, all of the upper level teams have their kids in unbelievable cardio shape and ready to go. In most cases you better be wrestling to score points, not secure stall calls.
Tiger hit the nail square on the head. Iowa kids wrestling opponents with a relative pulse have a style. They believe nobody is better conditioned, which is generally a truism. Wrestling to that belief they handfight, maintain their position and push their opponent to the edge and from there wrestle not for a score but to secure a stall call. The coaches encourage it from the corner and from the corners they insistently berate the officials to call the stall.
After watching 2 days of the Midlands whether the above is an accurate description of "the Iowa syyle" isn't even debatable.
If the Iowa kid is on equal footing or maybe a little behind this gives the better conditioned athlete an advantage over 7 or 11 minutes. A problem beyond boring is this approach opens the superior athletes (Spencer and Thomas Gilman) to upsets.
Typically speaking Cory Clark and Tony Ramos (he did in his championship match) did not wrestle this way. Kemerer generally does not wrestle this way. His approach in the finals was unKemerer like.
Iowa can coach whatever way they damn well see fit and believe will lead to success.
But gee whiz guys, and you too vodka, if the Hawks are going to wrestle to secure stall calls instead of offensive points and continuously seem to be finishing 3rd or 4th @ B10s or 4th, 5th or 6th at nationals you all need to quit getting your panties in a bunch.
I will let you in on the open secret. By March, all of the upper level teams have their kids in unbelievable cardio shape and ready to go. In most cases you better be wrestling to score points, not secure stall calls.
That's just 6 paragraphs of hot air. Iowa coaches want them to score points constantly! The stall calls come with being in control of the match and pushing the pace.
I would hardly call it a peeing contest. I respect Turks postsFine, but you and Dice, in fact anyone that wants to have a two-man peeing contest, should just trade phone numbers and talk it out. Sure is sad to watch two grown men (assuming you're both grown-up, and men) dive into the gutter like that. There's an awful lot of folks that read this board for wrestling content, many don't even post.
For myself, the first couple rounds are ok, after that not so much. Sure would be nice to see a mature adult walk away when it gets out of hand. I frankly don't care if it's the Iowa guy or the PSU guy. Truce anyone? We have a tournament to follow tomorrow!!
on a bunch of things and have said as much. I disagreed with him on this and called him out on it.
Im sure if he posts something tomorrow I will evaluate it and post a response accordingly without disrespect. No need to call a truce. He knows his wrestling.
Not sure that we need this to be a Pollyanna board and that everyone needs to agree on everything unless it is to not use a personal attack.
So the goal is high-scoring wrestlers. But for years the result is low-scoring wrestlers. Somebody might want to figure out that causation chain and fix it. Maybe put together a 2-hour analysis or a quarter-inch binder?
I'm ok with your explanation on Wilke Warner being teammates and that leads to conservative matches but please rewatch the first 3 minutes. If I'm not mistaken neither wrestlers knee hit the mat. That's unacceptable even for 285s. Both wrestlers attempted to use the OOB line shuffle to keep their opponent from returning to neutral. Tactics for sure but seemed to be a common theme yesterday. Love the OOB rule but can't stand that unfortunate side effect.
And an old rant but a good one and especially relevant yesterday. If you don't push the pace for the first 6 minutes dont expect a stall call to bail you out when you finally decide to look busy at the in the last minute. Of course that was another of my bitches about that match. Wilke didnt light the world on fire early but he sure didn't deserve to get dinged there at the buzzer. That was a BS call but fortunately the deserving wrestler moved on.
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And you know better. The pushing is pushing to the edge. From there they spend a ton of effort to shove their opponent out of bounds. If you think that time spent standing at the edge is for anything other than the stall call, yeah that's on you.
You and I have different understandings of pushing the pace and trying to score.
I understand trying to score as moving and attacking through defensive hands. You know, where you actually risk positioning to gain control of legs. I understand keeping the pace up is to continue to move and attempt to actually secure points.
Your understanding apparently is something different. You know like maintain position, hand fight, push, and shove out of bounds. Hell i hope they are wrestling to secure stall calls. Otherwise, what a freaking waste of energy.
As I said. Iowa is certainly entitled to coach as they see fit. Just please quit expecting different freaking results when the double down on the same game plan leads to the same results. And stop whining when others describe the Iowa style as boring and not nearly as effective as it once was.
Those Midlands refs showed up on the mats dying to give out stall calls to the Black and Gold. At nationals and B10s that doesn't happen like it did in the past.
^^ This.
Iowa boring is not the opinion of this board. It's the opinion of recent and current wrestlers. We've all seen the Rohskopf "Don't wrestle -- hand fight!" tweet. Then yesterday:
And then there's the tan tapes, reinforcing that reputation among high-end recruits.
Before Iowa fans paint this board as a bunch of Iowa haters -- take a poll and ask which school we'd rather see be good, Iowa or Ohio State. Then ask which school's style is better for the sport. The splits will be approximately equal but opposite.
So having all the best talent in the county starting.
Also having another top 5-6 coming in next year
is good for the sport.
When everyone knows that you are going to beat or even shut
most teams u wrestle.
That is good for the sport.
Save your money and don't watch Iowa cause they are boring.
Send about 12,000 fans to Iowa City next time cause no
one likes to watch boring match or get whipped badly.
In time you will find that when your on the road attendance
will drop..Happen with Gable teams got to point only time
good attendance for them was home meets..
Also having another top 5-6 coming in next year
is good for the sport.
When everyone knows that you are going to beat or even shut
most teams u wrestle.
That is good for the sport.
Save your money and don't watch Iowa cause they are boring.
Send about 12,000 fans to Iowa City next time cause no
one likes to watch boring match or get whipped badly.
In time you will find that when your on the road attendance
will drop..Happen with Gable teams got to point only time
good attendance for them was home meets..
Do we have to choose between Iowa and Ohio State for who we would rather be good? Can't I pick Iowa State instead?
We could do a Black Shoe Diaries type poll, where one of the options must be Ohio State Sucks regardless of the question.
Yes! I want to play! Count me in!
Question 1. Will Iowa State return to previous wrestling glory?
Answers
A. Ohio State sucks
B. Yes
C. Maybe
D. Ohio State sucks more
I like this game.
Get lost with the "top talent in the county (country)" crap. There are many reasons that PSU gets top recruits, two of them being the style of wrestling that is coached, and the results that follow. If Cael or Casey asked every one of their National Champions to "throw me" they would probably need a chiropractor by now. Stay on HR, you won't get as upset.
Watched the Midlands finals. The match I enjoyed most was the Gross match and he utterly destroyed his opponent. The Marinelli squeaker was horrible to watch. 197lb match was boring. Sorenson wrestling close to the vest wasn’t very interesting as well. His match with Tsirtsis earlier had me wanting to kick myself in the balls just to make things interesting. It was horrendous.
Yeah, the match I enjoyed most was the one that was a complete blowout. There’s a reason for that though. I like seeing kids go for it. I like seeing wrestlers wanting to put points on the board and aren’t afraid to let it fly and if they get scored on then so be it. I’d much rather watch the artistry of a Zain Retherford or Jason Nolf pour it on some poor soul than watch two turds out there waiting for the other to make a mistake.
Excellence is good for the sport.
Aggressive, point-scoring wrestling is good for the sport.
Pushing top notch talent to reach their fullest potential is good for the sport.
Cael and Company profide all three and much, much more.
Iowa is a dinosaur. Glory days have passed it by. Both in success and wrestling style. Sorry to have to inform you of what should be very obvious.
Wasn't this year's recruiting class for Iowa the number 1 class in the nation?
And that was without a 3 inch binder!
NC State got the #1 recruiting class the year before. (I don't wish to re-hash the debate over why they got that ranking.) Before that: 2015 Arizona State, 2014 PSU, 2013 Michigan, 2012 Iowa.
So the talent is being distributed.
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I'm not sure, but I think that post may be missing a period or two.
Line breaks > Periods everytime.
If Iowa fans are content with their elite recruits not looking to score bonus points every time out then there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn’t be content with 2nd, 3rd or 4th place finishes at Nationals.
Unless Penn State finishes one notch above first it is highly unlikely Iowa can get second. For the past 7 years rule of thumb is Iowa's spot is at best 2 slots behind PSU. Of course the exception is that one time at band camp when the Hawks finished ahead of the Nits they were still stuck sucking the chrome off of Ohio State's tailpipe.
I love how you aren’t content with just sticking the knife in a Hawkeye fan. No... my boy nit needs to twist that f***** until they bleed. Lmao.
Exactly. Evans and Marinelli (just 2 examples) were top recruits, and they both adopted the "Iowa style". Club, push, take a late shot, and then accept your 5th place finish at NCAA's. I've said it before, I hope TnT coach there forever.
You what they say. If you are going to be a two-faced dumbass, be sincere.
Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't the rule that the wrestler who forces his opponent off the mat is suppose to receive the stalling warning?
Or has this rule been changed?
Or has this rule been changed?
Nah, I'm done. Last day of the year, wanted to let it out. Still stand by my point though.
Happy New Year!!Nah, I'm done. Last day of the year, wanted to let it out. Still stand by my point though.
Same to you '85, and to all of you wrestling nuts on this board. Looking forward to the Scuffle!
Or the teams you wrestle could step up. Not like 12,000 fans attend matches unless it involves a powerhouse
Have a Happy New year.
Thought best to wish now before nitlion6 stabs me
and I bleed to death..
Thought best to wish now before nitlion6 stabs me
and I bleed to death..
And Happy New Year to You minnhawkeye...you SOB. You started out very rough and I wanted to dislike you but time and your exceptional personality have won me over and I now think you're a pretty good guy! Plus, you seem to know a bit a about wrestling and I can always learn more!Have a Happy New year.
Thought best to wish now before nitlion6 stabs me
and I bleed to death..
I guess it doesnt count as quitting if you sign up but pull out at the last minute.
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