More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?

[Obliviax]

Amazed at how Michigan fans are in complete denial of what’s going on. I’d at least be in “oh shit” mode by now.

word is that UM has taken down the JH tweets from the last three years. IDK if that is true but just seeing some bloggers post it.

UM was fortunate that they had a bye week last week and could kind of hide from all of this. They play Purdue on a Saturday night game at home before traveling to happy valley for a nooner the following Saturday.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Why do you think they destroyed all the evidence in the Bellicheat scandal? Better for people to keep guessing than have irrefutable evidence that the games were illegitimately decided.

I think there is already way more out there in the public domain right now than there was in the Patriots scandal.

Also, comparing NFL and NCAA is a bit apples and oranges.

But appreciate your point. The brand tries to protect the brand. In this case, I think to protect the brand you need to severely discipline the cheaters.

 

[PSU2UNC]

word is that UM has taken down the JH tweets from the last three years. IDK if that is true but just seeing some bloggers post it.

UM was fortunate that they had a bye week last week and could kind of hide from all of this. They play Purdue on a Saturday night game at home before traveling to happy valley for a nooner the following Saturday.

This is interesting because some people are claiming JH hadn't tweeted in the last 3 years, but there appear to be screenshots of his tweets from that time period.

Can't imagine a head coach in this day and age not tweeting (even if it is staffers doing it for him) but hard to know what to believe these days.

Definitely suspicious if they were deleted.

 

[psu00]

Amazed at how Michigan fans are in complete denial of what’s going on. I’d at least be in “oh shit” mode by now.

I’d also be in that same mode waiting for the next part of the story to drop.

That said, they’re convinced they are playing for the national title this year and when you get people like Finebaum saying this will be no big deal they buy in.

I’m shocked Finebaum said over the weekend that in this day of NIL/ portal and breaking down of long-standing policies that he thinks this won’t really be held against Michigan (paraphrasing).

I thought for sure once the story hit that Michigan was tampering with the SEC outcome in the Tennessee vs SC game last year he’d be calling for blood.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I’d also be in that same mode waiting for the next part of the story to drop.

That said, they’re convinced they are playing for the national title this year and when you get people like Finebaum saying this will be no big deal they buy in.

I’m shocked Finebaum said over the weekend that in this day of NIL/ portal and breaking down of long-standing policies that he thinks this won’t really be held against Michigan (paraphrasing).

I thought for sure once the story hit that Michigan was tampering with the SEC outcome in the Tennessee vs SC game last year he’d be calling for blood.

Only one explanation…..don’t open Pandora’s Box as a lot of teams do similar stuff.

 

[heckmans]

But he's not going to the games. He's giving the tickets away. And these are not nosebleed seats. They are perfect for observing the opposite sideline. And sometimes he buys tickets on BOTH sides of the field in the same place.

Let me clarify. That was TIC. It's obviously nefarious. Playing devil's advocate, I still can't come up with any reason for buying these tickets that is benign.

 

[Thomas1945]

Only one explanation…..don’t open Pandora’s Box as a lot of teams do similar stuff.

The Pandora’s Box comment is interesting. Finebaum is always ragging on Harbaugh. Suddenly this behavior isn’t a big issue for the mouth of the South?

 

[Thomas1945]

Let me clarify. That was TIC. It's obviously nefarious. Playing devil's advocate, I still can't come up with any reason for buying these tickets that is benign.

Maybe Stalions has delusion's of grandeur from his military service, and he thinks he’s the President. Thus he buys tickets on both sides.😀😀😀 Therefore we can await the often used but rarely successful “temporary insanity” defense that absolves UM.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Maybe Stalions has delusion's of grandeur from his military service, and he thinks he’s the President. Thus he buys tickets on both sides.😀😀😀 Therefore we can await the often used but rarely successful “temporary insanity” defense that absolves UM.

Did he …. or whomever used them….switch sides at half time?

 

[LandoComando]

I don't even know what that means. All power is given and can be taken away. Unless Michigan is planning on succeeding from the Big Ten/NCAA they will have to abide by what those two governing bodies decide.

To an extent it does. When they cheat in a way that threatens the intergrity of the game, it doesn't matter who is doing it.

Sanctions will come from Big Ten, not from NCAA.

Based on what? What indicates the Big Ten is doing anything quickly?

They don't have to leave the NCAA to remove their power. Michigan already did that once this year.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

This is interesting because some people are claiming JH hadn't tweeted in the last 3 years, but there appear to be screenshots of his tweets from that time period.

Can't imagine a head coach in this day and age not tweeting (even if it is staffers doing it for him) but hard to know what to believe these days.

Definitely suspicious if they were deleted.

He stopped tweeting around the same time they started to cheat. Interesting.

 

[Thomas1945]

Did he …. or whomever used them….switch sides at half time?

If only one person attended then yes. And it was accomplished by using a clever ruse. The operative masqueraded as a member of the UM marching band at halftime to cover the redeployment

 

[PSU2UNC]

Based on what? What indicates the Big Ten is doing anything quickly?

Because if they don't there will no integrity to the entire Big Ten schedule this year.

They don't have to leave the NCAA to remove their power. Michigan already did that once this year.

How so? You mean JH's self imposed slap on the wrist suspension? You realize the NCAA can still drop the hammer on him for that, right?

 

[Thomas1945]

Based on what? What indicates the Big Ten is doing anything quickly?

They don't have to leave the NCAA to remove their power. Michigan already did that once this year.

Michigan didn’t remove any NCAA power. Stop giving them credit. You can’t remove what’s already gone. This is either a Law of Physics or something in the magicians handbook. I don’t really remember which. Bye suspending him against the three tomato cans they merely gave the NCAA an excuse to follow their time honored policy of inaction. Subsequent developments have upset that apple cart. When action happens is a debatable issue.

 

[Westcoast24]

I’d also be in that same mode waiting for the next part of the story to drop.

That said, they’re convinced they are playing for the national title this year and when you get people like Finebaum saying this will be no big deal they buy in.

I’m shocked Finebaum said over the weekend that in this day of NIL/ portal and breaking down of long-standing policies that he thinks this won’t really be held against Michigan (paraphrasing).

I thought for sure once the story hit that Michigan was tampering with the SEC outcome in the Tennessee vs SC game last year he’d be calling for blood.

Your last sentence brings up an intersting side bar. Will the NCAA now look into SC for stealing signs as well ya think? I haven’t read enough about that situation to know what all took place

 

[lazydave841]

I think the original intent was to get 3 games out of the way this year thinking that if they enforce a 4th or more it rolls over to next year by the time it comes down, if at all.

The amount of info that keeps rolling out is pretty big in comparison to a lot of stories. I don't think anybody else is going to lay down on the Michigan sword. The timing of something is the key component, moreso than what it is.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Your last sentence brings up an intersting side bar. Will the NCAA now look into SC for stealing signs as well ya think? I haven’t read enough about that situation to know what all took place

That is a tad sticky. A different team gave them signs, they didn’t steal them. Don’t know the rules well enough to know how that will be handled.

Like getting stuck with a counterfeit $100 bill. Didn’t make it so not a criminal act.

 

[lazydave841]

Will the NCAA now look into SC for stealing signs as well ya think? I haven’t read enough about that situation to know what all took place

It seems to be that they used the signs Michigan in person scouted, which I'm sure is a slice of the crime.

Haven't seen anything from them spoken. Silence.

 

[Obliviax]

That is a tad sticky. A different team gave them signs, they didn’t steal them. Don’t know the rules well enough to know how that will be handled.

Like getting stuck with a counterfeit $100 bill. Didn’t make it so not a criminal act.

"getting stuck" is one thing. Knowing it is counterfeit and using it is a crime. I am pretty sure if SC got the signals, it wasn't via a lightening bolt. If handed to a low-level staffer, that person would have to convince the top of the coaching chain it was legit lest it would be of no value. Somebody would have had to ask, at least, "where did this come from?"

 

[lazydave841]

"getting stuck" is one thing. Knowing it is counterfeit and using it is a crime. I am pretty sure if SC got the signals, it wasn't via a lightening bolt. If handed to a low-level staffer, that person would have to convince the top of the coaching chain it was legit lest it would be of no value. Somebody would have had to ask, at least, "where did this come from?"

Watch SoCar lie about it and get punished worse than Michigan by the time it's all said and done.

 

[psu00]

Your last sentence brings up an intersting side bar. Will the NCAA now look into SC for stealing signs as well ya think? I haven’t read enough about that situation to know what all took place

I would doubt it mainly because I think the NCAA is incompetent in just about everything they do. .

I could see SC skating by saying they didn’t actively steal signs- it was a scouting report given to them by another institution. Splitting hairs but the NCAA lives on that sort of stuff.

I think you could make an argument that SC should be investigated given that they were (reportedly) given the signs on both Tennessee and Clemson. That’s now a pattern rather than a 1 off.

Honestly, I’m shocked the report of trying to affect the ACC and SEC outcomes hasn’t taken off. I thought for sure the SEC would raise all hell over ‘tampering’ with their league but they’ve been very quiet. Even Finebaum just gave it a shoulder shrug over the weekend.

It makes me think maybe there’s a few other schools down there who scouted as well and have decided to keep a low profile. Obviously, I have no proof of that but it’s shocking to me that the SEC folks haven’t gone on the warpath over this.

 

[Obliviax]

 

[LandoComando]

Because if they don't there will no integrity to the entire Big Ten schedule this year.

How so? You mean JH's self imposed slap on the wrist suspension? You realize the NCAA can still drop the hammer on him for that, right?

Then there's no integrity because we all know it won't happen
Yes, they self-sanctioned and the NCAA won't do anything. Again, ask yourself--when is the last time the NCAA actually made a significant move?

 

[LandoComando]

Michigan didn’t remove any NCAA power. Stop giving them credit. You can’t remove what’s already gone. This is either a Law of Physics or something in the magicians handbook. I don’t really remember which. Bye suspending him against the three tomato cans they merely gave the NCAA an excuse to follow their time honored policy of inaction. Subsequent developments have upset that apple cart. When action happens is a debatable issue.

If we want to say enable them to remain impotent that's great but let's not pretend that they would have (or will) done anything had they not. Recent history proves that.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I’d also be in that same mode waiting for the next part of the story to drop.

That said, they’re convinced they are playing for the national title this year and when you get people like Finebaum saying this will be no big deal they buy in.

I’m shocked Finebaum said over the weekend that in this day of NIL/ portal and breaking down of long-standing policies that he thinks this won’t really be held against Michigan (paraphrasing).

I thought for sure once the story hit that Michigan was tampering with the SEC outcome in the Tennessee vs SC game last year he’d be calling for blood.

Given that this type of thing is a huge deal in Pro Sports (i.e., blatantly cheating and maring the integrity of the game?), how does one figure it's no big deal at the NCAA level??? Baffling how anyone can believe this is no big deal - this is tantamount to engaging in a conspiracy to steal an opponent's playbook back before the "information age" when all you had was physical playbooks. It is beyond unethical and a huge deal.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

That is a tad sticky. A different team gave them signs, they didn’t steal them. Don’t know the rules well enough to know how that will be handled.

Like getting stuck with a counterfeit $100 bill. Didn’t make it so not a criminal act.

I doubt that they even have that in the ncaa guidlelines.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

My educated guess is that sanctions do not come until after this season. There is just too much to unfold here before the end of the season.

I think Harbaugh will leave in the offseason to the NFL before anything hits.

Michigan will be hit with some kind of sanctions in the offseason but its hard to see how hard they will be hit.

 

[fastlax16]

"getting stuck" is one thing. Knowing it is counterfeit and using it is a crime. I am pretty sure if SC got the signals, it wasn't via a lightening bolt. If handed to a low-level staffer, that person would have to convince the top of the coaching chain it was legit lest it would be of no value. Somebody would have had to ask, at least, "where did this come from?"

Isn't that Michigan's argument? No one asked where Stalions got the info needed to print his weekly Cheesecake Factory menu sized booklet of signals so all is well.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

 

[lazydave841]

how does one figure it's no big deal at the NCAA level??? Baffling how anyone can believe this is no big deal

It's not that nobody here thinks it isn't a big deal. It's that nobody thinks anything will be done prior to the playoff.

I think Harbaugh will leave in the offseason to the NFL before anything hits.

He'll still likely face suspension by the NFL. They've upheld college suspensions prior.

 

[lazydave841]

Isn't that Michigan's argument? No one asked where Stalions got the info needed to print his weekly Cheesecake Factory menu sized booklet of signals so all is well.

According to their visiting gem, there is no evidence of anything. It's just reporters talking about it.

I don't even know why Harbaugh is fielding questions. Play out? There is no evidence. What is there to play out?

/s

 

[Obliviax]

It's not that nobody here thinks it isn't a big deal. It's that nobody thinks anything will be done prior to the playoff.



He'll still likely face suspension by the NFL. They've upheld college suspensions prior.

Agree. A lot depends on the OC FBI investigation. Is that a personal thing or a professional thing? Betting games? Human trafficking? No idea. But that is the most alarming thing, right now.

Stealing signs is probably something everyone does so I don't see any big repercussions unless they were given to other teams (Tennessee is the rumor). That would be a big deal.

At some point, the totality of issues has to add up in order for the University to make a move. I have no confidence in the NCAA at all. Is competing for a natty worth the bad PR of a cheating HC?

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

 

[PSU2UNC]

Then there's no integrity because we all know it won't happen

So you are admitting at this point that if Michigan is allowed to continue playing into the post-season that this season has no integrity and therefore doesn't count?

Yes, they self-sanctioned and the NCAA won't do anything.

LOL. The NCAA is definitely going to act on Michigan both for the lying about recruiting during a dead period, the actual recruiting during the dead period and now illegal in person scouting and video recording of opponents.

Again, ask yourself--when is the last time the NCAA actually made a significant move?

How about earlier this year? The NCAA dropped fairly major sanctions (including scholarship reductions) against Tennessee for 18 Level One violations (none of which rose to the level of directly affecting on the field competition).

Legislative Services Database - LSDBi

In Michigan's case, we know of at least 30 Level One violations AND they are far more serious in that they directly affected on field competitive integrity.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Given that this type of thing is a huge deal in Pro Sports (i.e., blatantly cheating and maring the integrity of the game?), how does one figure it's no big deal at the NCAA level??? Baffling how anyone can believe this is no big deal - this is tantamount to engaging in a conspiracy to steal an opponent's playbook back before the "information age" when all you had was physical playbooks. It is beyond unethical and a huge deal.

I remember during a game at Ohio St about 15-20 years ago, Tom Bradley handed one of the OSU players "wristband playsheets" to an OSU coach on the way to halftime, since it fell off and we didn't want to play dirty. Said a lot about Joe/Tom, and the program that they ran.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Isn't that Michigan's argument? No one asked where Stalions got the info needed to print his weekly Cheesecake Factory menu sized booklet of signals so all is well.

Nope, according to the NCAA Rules, it is Jim Harbaugh's duty to ascertain where Stallion's work came from (and if his work methods were legal) before using Stallion's work product on an institutionalized basis. "Lack of Institutional Control" especially in regards to allowing blatant cheating AND USING THE CHEATING WORK PRODUCT, is about as serious as it gets - "Lack of Institutional Control" is what got SMU the Death Penalty.

 

[WaylonJ]

View embedded media

What in blue hell is this dude talking about? Man is he a strange ranger.

 

[The Spin Meister]

What in blue hell is this dude talking about? Man is he a strange ranger.

Well, there colors are maize and blue.

 

[Thomas1945]

What in blue hell is this dude talking about? Man is he a strange ranger.

Well in a way it was successful. You’re spending time trying to decipher his lunacy as opposed to focusing on the sign stealing.
But granted Jimmy is one strange dude.

 

[lazydave841]

What in blue hell is this dude talking about? Man is he a strange ranger.

Corn fell off a grain train and the stalk is about 18" now in one spot of the railroad where I work. It doesn't make it special.