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More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?

Corn fell off a grain train and the stalk is about 18" now in one spot of the railroad where I work. It doesn't make it special.
Reminds me of a scene in Walker Texas Ranger with Chuck Norris. A biker dude was yelling at his gang to be strong. Said “You gotta be tough like a tomato! They grow up in junk yards with no one taking care of them”

Was really stupid. Quit watching the show.
 
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Nothing is going to happen this year. The conference has an obvious conflict of interest, and the NCAA, which is a joke in any case, is not about to swoop in and administer justice on an expedited schedule. Michigan making the playoffs is a big-time moneymaker for a lot of important players.

SI's Pat Forde has an interesting but naive analysis. He talks about "sportsmanship." Haha! Stop it, Pat, you're killing me. As an aside, he also calls our league the "Big-3" so Penn State apparently got a promotion. We're "elite" after all:

 
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Reminds me of a scene in Walker Texas Ranger with Chuck Norris. A biker dude was yelling at his gang to be strong. Said “You gotta be tough like a tomato! They grow up in junk yards with no one taking care of them”

Was really stupid. Quit watching the show.
Years ago I dug up the same milkweed three times, and even poisoned the soil. The bitch kept returning. Eventually I placed a wire fence around it so it could live in peace. I even watered it occasionally to show my admiration. Tomatoes growing in a junk yard don’t impress me.
 
Rick Neuheisel (sp) former qb and head coach states that Michigan received a significant advantage. Says that last years offensive coordinator won the Broyles award as top offensive coordinator but couldn't last one year as head coach without the sign stealing advantages.
I went to the Ohio U/Miami of Ohio game Saturday. Sitting behind the OU bench, the team had two kids put up a black background for the two signal-callers. At first, I thought it was to make sure that there was a consistent background so the players could see the signals better. But at halftime, the Miami staff ran onto the field and across it to join the team for halftime. I then realized that the Miami coaching staff was behind me in the press box.

of course, that isn't illegal. you can try to steal signals in-game. But it was funny to me the lengths OU went through to make sure Miami couldn't see their signals in a MAC game.
 
So you are admitting at this point that if Michigan is allowed to continue playing into the post-season that this season has no integrity and therefore doesn't count?

LOL. The NCAA is definitely going to act on Michigan both for the lying about recruiting during a dead period, the actual recruiting during the dead period and now illegal in person scouting and video recording of opponents.

How about earlier this year? The NCAA dropped fairly major sanctions (including scholarship reductions) against Tennessee for 18 Level One violations (none of which rose to the level of directly affecting on the field competition).

In Michigan's case, we know of at least 30 Level One violations AND they are far more serious in that they directly affected on field competitive integrity.
See the word "then" in my first response. If the game occur they count.
Based on what is the NCAA going to act?
"fairly major" = not major.
Realistically (key word) what are you expecting since you clearly think it's going to be more than a slap on the wrist which hasn't happened in years.
 
Says that last years offensive coordinator, Josh Gattis, won the Broyles award as top offensive coordinator but couldn't last one year as head coach without the sign stealing advantages.
There's so much wrong here I don't even know where to start but let's try...
Gattis was the OC at Michigan in 2022?
When was he a HC after being at Michigan? Or before Michigan?
 
In reply to Lando above. In 2021 Gattis won Broyles award. Hired at Miami for 2022. Fired January 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Gattis
Right--he wasn't at Michican last year as you said
He wasn't a HC after and you said couldn't make it a year as a HC

Says that last years offensive coordinator, Josh Gattis, won the Broyles award as top offensive coordinator but couldn't last one year as head coach without the sign stealing advantages.
 
Right--he wasn't at Michican last year as you said
He wasn't a HC after and you said couldn't make it a year as a HC
Was off by one year in my summary but substantively correct in the post I made on a football message board where I rely on my memory and don't double or triple check what I posted. Here is another summary to make it clearer for you.

" Miami hired Gattis just a few weeks after winning the 2021 Broyles Award, which recognizes the top assistant coach in college football. Despite this recognition, the Hurricanes struggled in Gattis’ only season at the helm, finishing with a 5-7 record and suffering embarrassing losses to Middle Tennessee, Duke, and Florida State."https://www.boundingintosports.com/... to Middle Tennessee, Duke, and Florida State.

Why don't you tell me how my post was substantively flawed or substantively misleading? Maybe you and the grammar police officer, Lafayette Bear may want to join forces.
 
Was off by one year in my summary but substantively correct in the post I made on a football message board where I rely on my memory and don't double or triple check what I posted. Here is another summary to make it clearer for you.

" Miami hired Gattis just a few weeks after winning the 2021 Broyles Award, which recognizes the top assistant coach in college football. Despite this recognition, the Hurricanes struggled in Gattis’ only season at the helm, finishing with a 5-7 record and suffering embarrassing losses to Middle Tennessee, Duke, and Florida State."https://www.boundingintosports.com/2023/02/university-of-miami-football-makes-bold-move-by-firing-offensive-coordinator-josh-gattis/#:~:text=Miami hired Gattis just a few weeks after,losses to Middle Tennessee, Duke, and Florida State.

Why don't you tell me how my post was substantively flawed or substantively misleading? Maybe you and the grammar police officer, Lafayette Bear may want to join forces.

Saying he was at Michigan last year then a head coach (this year?) were misleading. Especially claiming he failed as a HC when he has never been a HC.

Even this sentence "Despite this recognition, the Hurricanes struggled in Gattis’ only season at the helm, finishing with a 5-7 record and suffering embarrassing losses to Middle Tennessee, Duke, and Florida" falsely makes it sound like he was the HC. He wasn't just in case you're unclear.

Not sure why you're saying this is about grammar. It's about clear misinformation.
 
Saying he was at Michigan last year then a head coach (this year?) were misleading. Especially claiming he failed as a HC when he has never been a HC.

Even this sentence "Despite this recognition, the Hurricanes struggled in Gattis’ only season at the helm, finishing with a 5-7 record and suffering embarrassing losses to Middle Tennessee, Duke, and Florida" falsely makes it sound like he was the HC. He wasn't just in case you're unclear.

Not sure why you're saying this is about grammar. It's about clear misinformation.
I was 100% wrong about Gattis being head coach at Miami. I apologize for the mistake. Misinterpreted the video and just scanned the linked video.
 
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I was 100% wrong about Gattis being head coach at Miami. I apologize for the mistake. Misinterpreted the video and just scanned the linked video.
That's fine. It happens. I just wanted that clarified. I'm 100% on board with criticizing Gattis. Misinformation bothers me is all :)
 
Another day, another accusation becomes public.

Will the Big Ten do anything or just continue to put its head in the sand? I’m betting on the sand……but if this was Illinois or Rutgers or Maryland……..
if it was Maryland, Illinois or Rutgers it wouldn't even be a story--people would just be laughing that they're cheating and still can't win.
Accusations are just that--accusations. The process will play out as we all know it will before any action is taken unless Michigan decides to waive that option and we know they aren't that stupid. Probably 6 months before anything happens.
 
I was 100% wrong about Gattis being head coach at Miami. I apologize for the mistake. Misinterpreted the video and just scanned the linked video.
A comment on Josh Gattis and 2021. The reason why Gattis left Michigan after 2020 and winning the award is he was angry that he could not run "speed in space". Harbaugh implemented the retro power run scheme instead. Gattis was opposed to this. It tells you how pointless some rewards are. Gattis won it following the dictates of his boss. If you watch the 2nd half of the UM<>OSU game there is really not much transparency. It was four possessions of running right at the opponent. The changeup was running off tackle.

Conversely, I did not see anything subtle on defense by UM in that game. It was two DE's running over the OSU tackles over and over. Both of UM's DE's could set the edge without help. Then it was just going after the QB.

Regardless of the advantage or not, it is good that the situation be investigated and the illegal activity stopped. The rules are the rules. That said the worst thing a Michigan opponent can do is believe that the team is impotent without the secret sauce. P5 college football is a multi million dollar operation. If this was the key to success, the SEC would have done this years ago. Bagman money was an order of a magnitude beyond this. How hard is it for bagmen to pay cash for tickets and have strangers post video in anonymous places for pickup?

What the NCAA needs to do is allow radios in the helmet. The cost is trivial. So whats the hold up?
 
A comment on Josh Gattis and 2021. The reason why Gattis left Michigan after 2020 and winning the award is he was angry that he could not run "speed in space". Harbaugh implemented the retro power run scheme instead. Gattis was opposed to this. It tells you how pointless some rewards are. Gattis won it following the dictates of his boss. If you watch the 2nd half of the UM<>OSU game there is really not much transparency. It was four possessions of running right at the opponent. The changeup was running off tackle.

Conversely, I did not see anything subtle on defense by UM in that game. It was two DE's running over the OSU tackles over and over. Both of UM's DE's could set the edge without help. Then it was just going after the QB.

Regardless of the advantage or not, it is good that the situation be investigated and the illegal activity stopped. The rules are the rules. That said the worst thing a Michigan opponent can do is believe that the team is impotent without the secret sauce. P5 college football is a multi million dollar operation. If this was the key to success, the SEC would have done this years ago. Bagman money was an order of a magnitude beyond this. How hard is it for bagmen to pay cash for tickets and have strangers post video in anonymous places for pickup?

What the NCAA needs to do is allow radios in the helmet. The cost is trivial. So whats the hold up?

I don't think anyone thinks Michigan is impotent but, as many here know all too well, the line between being very good and being elite is incredibly thin and believing the secret sauce got them over that line is a reasonable conclusion.
 
I don't think anyone thinks Michigan is impotent but, as many here know all too well, the line between being very good and being elite is incredibly thin and believing the secret sauce got them over that line is a reasonable conclusion.
Well they went from good to elite and the only difference I can see is the sign stealing. Even their recruiting rankings haven't really changed at all. In 2016 and 2017 they were #4 but most or all of those players have graduated. Since then their best recruiting year was #9 in 2022. Harbaugh didn't suddenly learn to coach in his 11th year in college.
 
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Well they went from good to elite and the only difference I can see is the sign stealing. Even their recruiting rankings haven't really changed at all. In 2016 and 2017 they were #4 but most or all of those players have graduated. Since then their best recruiting year was #9 in 2022. Harbaugh didn't suddenly learn to coach in his 11th year in college.

That''s why I said its a reasonable conclusion. Since we can't go back and replay the last several seasons without their scheme its impossible to say for certain.
 
I think we can all at least agree the espionage was worth doing to Michigan. If they saw no value in it, doubt Stallions would be hanging around the sidelines, producing 11X17 "one-pagers" on opposing hand signals, the school wouldn't subsidize the very expensive tickets to other stadiums. What is without controversy, the juice was worth the squeeze,,,at least to Michigan. Was it worth 3 points, 7 points, 14 points...on the field of play? I have no idea. Simply knowing whether an opposing offense was going to run or pass would seem to be a huge advantage in non-obvious downs(3rd and 2 for example).
 
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I don't think anyone thinks Michigan is impotent but, as many here know all too well, the line between being very good and being elite is incredibly thin and believing the secret sauce got them over that line is a reasonable conclusion.
If you want to prove or disprove this, it is easy to use analytics. Score plays, especially plays in the first half and ask the question if UM had advantage in formation because UM was supposedly aware of the play call. I have seen no evidence pointing to that. I give the example in another thread which was the UM<>OSU 2022 game. OSU scored on their first two drives and was on the way to a third score when Day made a strange 4th down play. If what you say is true, the best time to leverage it at the beginning of the game. My opinion of watching that game was the inexplicable play calling of the OSU staff. I call it 4th and 4 disease. If OSU had run what they did against Georgia, they probably would have beaten Michigan. Yet Day refused to run Stroud, refused to run on and short, and insisted on cover0 everywhere on the field. Its okay to bend but not break and go to cover 0 in FG range.

Find a game in 2022, and show with the film that UM was playing 4-dimensional chess. I did not see that. I saw a lot of games where teams like Rutgers, Maryland, and Illinois hung around in the 1st half. Those teams were winning RPS.

I think that changing up signals is a lot easier than you think. My opinion is this Stallion fella had a knack for decryption and human nature. Signals probably get changed every week. But we all have tendencies. He may have been looking for patterns. If I want solid encryption I let a random generator set the standard. Stallion may have seen benefit in trying to pick up a humans tendencies to make it easier to decrypt during a game. I have no clue how to measure success. It should be useless if a staff does its due diligence. I would expect the PSU and OSU staff to have separate signaling for a big game. Thus my reasoning that I don't think Stallions work moved the needle.
 
bad reference to Pete Rose. He wasn't suspended for cheating. He was suspended for betting on pro baseball games with inside information.

Yeah, but they're both former athletes who have vowels in their last names.
 
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