Neal Brown post-game upset about Evans catch and Wallace TD.
- Thread starter SLion
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So the ball moves is lack of control now for you and Neil's convenience. 😂Drew Allar connects with Harrison Wallace III who drags his feet for a TD, extending Penn State's lead over West Virginia | FOX Sports
The Penn State Nittany Lions extended their lead over the West Virginia Mountaineers after Drew Allar connected with Harrison Wallace III for a touchdown.www.foxsports.com
45 sec, you get clear view of ball moving.
The bigger issue is that the ball doesn't just move ... he takes both hands off the ball and it's "floating" for a moment in time ... a moment where his ankle/foot has been dragged out of bounds.
I would have called that an incompletion.
Then again, this is my least favorite part of sports - the inevitable bitching about the refs. Every team thinks they were screwed on every play, and every fan is convinced he uncovered the ultimate incompetence/deliberate fraud against them.
It's absolutely awful.
Nope, not at the "moment" he re-adjusts hand (right toe is only thing touching ground and is still in-bounds) - something can't be dragging in a "moment". The dragging occurs just after the "moment" he adjusts left hand. Again, the only thing that would matter is the "absolute moment" he adjusts hand (right toe still in). Furthermore, the ball is permitted to move slightly as long as receiver maintains control through catch (the receiver is allowed to switch hands and ball can move slightly as in this case as long as possession is maintained).
The overruled the targeting call is a mystery to me.
This simply isn't true. There's a moment the ball is completely free ... he takes both hands off the ball, it's "floating" and he regrasps it with both hands a split second thereafter. And before he regrasps it, his ankle and the great majority of his foot are clearly touching the out of bounds white area.
Not an egregious non-call, however.
I just wish folks would stop crying about every potential missed call as if it was clearly this, or clearly that, and the fact that it didn't go their way was either gross negligence or a conspiracy to screw their team. But it happens after every game. The hens cackle. And the other side swears up and down that they didn't benefit from call X or Y. And on and on it goes.
And most of the time they don't have a friggin clue what they're cackling about (like you, with your horse collar take).
The right foot/leg is the one I’m talking about. Ball comes off his chest and out of his hands for a split second. When he regains control his right ankle/shin are out of bounds.
They explained it well (or I thought anyway) during the broadcast. I believe they're focused on the crown of the helmet more than anything which, if they're consistent, that's a good thing. Too many guys were being thrown out for clean or questionable hits.
You're full of it, he "regains control" in probably 1/10th of a second - and at that moment, his right toe is down and in-bounds prior to dragging OB. Beyond this the rules permit receiver to switch hands - that he is pinning the ball to his abdomen with like receiver did here. Your claim that the ball is "floating in midair" is a perfect example of your bullshit hyperbole! The ball is in constant contact with the receiver's abdomen (never "floating in midair" as you claim) and the 1/10th of a second his one hand is off while other hand on is permitted by the Rulebook in terms of switching hands while maintaining control.
You're reaching--and, again, I'm the first to acknowledge when Penn State gets a break to the point people think I'm not a fan
That's going to stand regardless of how it was called and its almost always going to be called a catch then reviewed.
There was no hyperbole. If you get hyperbole out of my post, I question your ability to see. Have a good day now.
Nobody apologizes or gives a rip when we've gotten slaughtered by ridiculous calls for the past 30 years. I laugh now when any coach or fan of another team starts crying about calls in games against PSU. If we got every call for the next thirty years we'd just start breaking even.
The ball was never "floating in midair" - the ball is in constant contact with receiver's abdomen. Not only is it not "floating in midair" at any point in the attached video, but it is being pinned to the receiver's abdomen by one of the receiver's hands for all but a fraction of a second as receiver switches hands he is using to pin ball. Your use of the terms "ball is floating in midair" suggests one of two things - your description is either pure hyperbole OR you don't understand the definition of the words and description you are using.
Again, intentional use of the crown of the helmet was not required for this hit to be Targetting as player was defenseless - only thing required for hit to be ruled Targetting was intentionally initiating initial-contact "targetting" head or neck area.
Here is definition of NCAA Rulebook's "Defenesless Player":
According to the NCAA, a defenseless player is someone who is particularly vulnerable to injury due to their physical position or focus. The NCAA considers a player to be defenseless in the following situations:
- A player who is in the act of throwing a pass, or just after releasing the ball
- A player who is attempting to catch a forward or backward pass
- A player who has completed a catch but has not had time to protect themselves or become the ball carrier
- A kicker who is in the act of kicking or just after kicking the ball
- A player who is on the ground
- A player who receives a blind-side block
- A player with the ball who is being held by an opponent and is unable to move forward
This hit was made out-of-bounds after the player was down, while the offensive player was in the grasp of a second defensive player and on the ground.... PSU player was clearly a "Defenseless Player" under NCAA Rulebook and defender clearly "targetted" initial contact to PSU players head with his helmet - absolutely a Targetting Penalty under NCAA Rulebook no matter what portion of his helmet the defender initiated contact with, and intentionally directed into, the PSU player's head.
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Why don't you guys watch the entire PR because Brown gives total praise to PSU for winning the game. A coach can actually do both because I'm sure he knows WVU got a few calls. The fact is but not just the officials but the replay system was horrible. They had issues and just this morning our Tony Caridi (announcer) said he knew for a fact that the replay guys wanted to stop the game and review, either the pass interference no call or the TD at the end of the half but poor communication caused the game to go on. There were bad no calls on both sides, especially the roughing the kicker that wasn't called on PSU right at the beginning of the game. The fact is, WVU just played a very poor game and didn't take advantage of hardly any opportunities.
It was a Big12 crew that officiated the game. If Neal Brown has a beef with the quality of the officiating, he should take it up with Greg Burks who is the Big12's Coordinator of Football Officials. Fox rules consultant Mike Pereira called it a catch as did the broadcast team. That's good enough for me.
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And complaining at the press conference does what exactly?
WVU is a poor team and a poorly coached team that couldn't adjust even with the long half time. Unfortunately for Brown, McAfee has created unrealistic expectations for WVU and Brown's probably going to get fired in a couple month because of it. How he handled this wasn't remotely smart.
from where I at it sure looked like the WV blocker pushed the PSU player into the kicker.
all this back and forth about whether the ball was juggled, caught or whatever is somewhat moot at this point. personally I though it was a good catch. Player had control of the ball all the way through...he doesn't need both hands on the ball just as long as he maintains control. And it's a pretty big stretch to asset he didn't have control.
Now, if we want to talk about that touchdown for WV. How does the referee on the backside of the player make a touchdown call? Even after a multitude of replays, it was clear that the runner's knee was down with the ball at least 1/2 yard from the end zone line. The referee was in no position to even see the ball much less make that call. Not saying WV would not have scored on the next play, but they certainly didn't on that one.
Remember the old expression, "where you stand determines what you see"
Make up your minds. If his ankle/foot has already been dragged across the lines as you say... and your words 'a moment' .... Maybe you should get your double wide saddlebags off the recliner and be a referee.
Wut? No idea what you're trying to say, other than some wrong-minded insult about being a ref.
It wasn't a catch. It was a really tough call - I'm not blaming the refs for getting it wrong. That call went in PSU's favor ... others did not. I'm not going to cry about it, or insist that we didn't benefit from a call here or there (and not benefit from other calls). Poop happens. Poop ... like your post.
Wrong, the PSU defender was clearly blocked, and pushed from behind, directly into kicker - this negates any penalty.
Well, it would have been 4th Down and WVU had just failed on three prior attempts from inside 1.
Lost in all of this, is the fact that this was, overall, one of the biggest official screw jobs Penn State has ever taken in recent memory, including the Michigan hose jobs. This might have been worse...consider:
Phantom pass interference on PSU...
Phantom late hit on Carter
Carter literally being tackled at least half a dozen times with no call.
Only ONE penalty for 5 yards on WVU
Pass interference WAVED OFF on WVU
Clear Targeting WAVED OFF ON WVU
Two Horrendous bad spots costing PSU 9 points total.
Both horrendous spots HELD UP by replay booth
Incomplete pass for WVU ruled completed with no replay.
Two WVU offense snaps at least 3 seconds after play clock hit zero.
Incredible.
Phantom pass interference on PSU...
Phantom late hit on Carter
Carter literally being tackled at least half a dozen times with no call.
Only ONE penalty for 5 yards on WVU
Pass interference WAVED OFF on WVU
Clear Targeting WAVED OFF ON WVU
Two Horrendous bad spots costing PSU 9 points total.
Both horrendous spots HELD UP by replay booth
Incomplete pass for WVU ruled completed with no replay.
Two WVU offense snaps at least 3 seconds after play clock hit zero.
Incredible.
WVU safety definitely clapped prior to the snap on our early fumble. The replay did not show him. Maybe not intentional, but it doesn’t matter.
You forgot the fumble for WVU that they ruled an incomplete pass.
Bad calls on both sides? Hardly. They called one penalty against WVU which was a false start. They called 8 against PSU. The player was blocked into the kicker on that play. And Caridi didn’t know that for a fact because pass interference is not reviewable. WVU got pretty much every call and almost all of the favorable no calls, yet they still complain about the officiating.
Yep. This fixation on if was there a split second where he didn’t have control is useless. If the WVU coach wants to go back and erase that TD (even though PSU had more time to score) then PSU gets to go back and remove the WVU TD and FG all of which came after bad calls that replay didn’t reverse.
So, PSU loses 7 and WVU loses 9. That would have made the score 27-3. I guess the WVU coach would be happy with that instead of 34-12?
I am not insulting any ref. I am truly sorry you didn't get the insult was meant for you. I promise to be more clear in the future.
Carter was blocked into the kicker. He even tried to hold back. I understand contact was made, but you get the benefit of the doubt when someone blocks you.
You mean the one one where their big TE caught/controlled the ball, turned up field was hit, and fumbled?
Oh, I get the insult was meant for me, I just didn’t understand why and what the insult was. Other than that, you nailed it.
I’m against bashing refs, blaming them for losses, and slinging insults that they’re incompetent or biased, (unless it’s an incredibly unique situation … like Angel Hernandez in the MLB).
That doesn’t mean we can’t discuss what calls we think they got right or wrong. They missed a very tough call with that TD. In real time, unless you had the perfect angle, you probably could never have picked that up (even then, I don’t know). Oh well. Not a big deal.
What part of that do you take issue with enough to insult me, sparky?
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I watched the replay of the Wallace TD at the end of the half a number of times.
Here is my assessment:
-In real time that is called a catch on the field almost all the time, if not every time. The quick instant his right hand comes off the ball is too difficult to pick up.
-In replay you clearly see when his right hand comes off the ball but it is so close and so fast that you have to go frame by frame to catch it.
-In the last instant before falling out of bounds with his shin still in bounds I believe his right hand is not touching the ball but his left hand is.
-Through the catch process the left hand stays on the ball but it does move a little.
-In watching it is very hard to discern that while in bounds he did not have control. He always had control with the left hand even when the right hand separated from the ball.
There is no way this call could have been reversed in a review. And it should not have been. He has control even if the right hand was off the ball while he fell out of bounds.
Edit to this post: The left hand does slip for an instant off the ball but in the last instant before falling out of bounds he secures it again with the left hand. This would be ruled control and hence catch no matter if the right hand was off the ball.
Here is my assessment:
-In real time that is called a catch on the field almost all the time, if not every time. The quick instant his right hand comes off the ball is too difficult to pick up.
-In replay you clearly see when his right hand comes off the ball but it is so close and so fast that you have to go frame by frame to catch it.
-In the last instant before falling out of bounds with his shin still in bounds I believe his right hand is not touching the ball but his left hand is.
-Through the catch process the left hand stays on the ball but it does move a little.
-In watching it is very hard to discern that while in bounds he did not have control. He always had control with the left hand even when the right hand separated from the ball.
There is no way this call could have been reversed in a review. And it should not have been. He has control even if the right hand was off the ball while he fell out of bounds.
Edit to this post: The left hand does slip for an instant off the ball but in the last instant before falling out of bounds he secures it again with the left hand. This would be ruled control and hence catch no matter if the right hand was off the ball.
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Yep. The one where he secures the ball, takes two steps, turns to make a third, then is hit and fumbles. 😂 This not only was ruled incomplete but yielded NO replay. Like I said, I don't think I have ever seen a Penn State team take such a complete and total screwing all game long, ever. It was pretty amazing we took all that hosing and still blew them off the field.
