I agree that you couldn't see the ball well. But you could see the plane of the goal line very clearly and that no part of the runners hand/ball complex broke that plane until after he was down. It can't be a touchdown if nothing breaks the plane prior to the end of the run.
Neal Brown post-game upset about Evans catch and Wallace TD.
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I agree that you couldn't see the ball well. But you could see the plane of the goal line very clearly and that no part of the runners hand/ball complex broke that plane until after he was down. It can't be a touchdown if nothing breaks the plane prior to the end of the run.
Good Lord. I’m glad you are not a prosecutor. The Innocence Project would be swamped.
For the self promoted Smartest Guy in the Room, Perfect Pitch is just outright dumb.
You can clearly see it's loose (both hands simultaneously off the ball) for a moment when his ankle and most of his foot are dragging on the out-of-bounds white - there's a thread with a tweet where it's a slo-mo close-up where this is indisputably evident. In real time, impossible to tell without the proper angle, however ... and maybe not even then.
The ball can move so long as he has control.Drew Allar connects with Harrison Wallace III who drags his feet for a TD, extending Penn State's lead over West Virginia | FOX Sports
The Penn State Nittany Lions extended their lead over the West Virginia Mountaineers after Drew Allar connected with Harrison Wallace III for a touchdown.www.foxsports.com
45 sec, you get clear view of ball moving.
He had control.
yep. nearly impossible for the ball to "not move" when getting slammed to the ground. Good call. He maintains control of the ball throughout the entire catching process.
There’s bad calls on the field in every game and that’s never going to end. It can be tough to be completely accurate in real time. My problem is with the replay official. There’s no excuse for him getting anything wrong as he can watch it on tape from multiple angles over and over. Yeah, occasionally there’s not enough to overturn and a questionable call stands. There should never be direct evidence to overturn a call and yet they let the mistake stand.
I think maybe this speaks to their needing to be two levels of targeting: one with ejection and one that is just 15 yards. I feel like the refs are balking at ejecting players unless the hit is really egregious, which is maybe OK, but it is still an unsafe play (in the same way an illegal blind side block or a chop block is( and should be penalized.
Correct. They can use composites of mulitple angles to make assumptions (e.g. shot #1 shows where the ball is, shot #2 shows when a knee is down).
That was a bad call.
The TD call was even worse.
If he isn't touching the ball, he can't have control of it ... and there was a moment in time when he wasn't touching it.
He brings it into his chest with his hands as he's falling down, he then takes both hands off the ball, and for a nanosecond, it's touching his chest, but not his hands, as he continues falling/sliding sideways and backward, the ball leaves his chest, and it's touching absolutely nothing of him at that moment ... he then regrabs it with both hands and pulls it back to his chest ... but at that point his ankle and much of his foot were in the white, out-of-bounds.
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The last instant before falling out of bounds he has control with his left hand and his shin is in.
His hand is in front of the ball so I have no idea if he's holding the ball or if it's loose. No angle shows it
Nope. It's very clear on that twitter clip someone provided earlier in this thread.
When the announcer says "shot to the end zone ... the" the ball is loose that entire time, after the word "shot" ... that's after the initial grab to the chest ... then he pulls both hands away and the ball comes off his chest ... by the time the announcer says "end zone", the receiver's shin, and part of his foot have slid onto the white. Again, he still hasn't re-grasped the ball. He eventually does, of course.
You can clearly see the ball float. Look at the lace - you can see the ball turn "up" on the receiver's left side ... but his hand isn't following that direction. It's loose, and you can see the hand pull away just before that happens.
Not what I saw. We can agree to disagree. You seem to be positive it was a no catch without a shadow of a doubt which is incorrect but go ahead and believe that. Is that your point, to prove we were gifted a TD?
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Yes it can. While there is an instant where neither hand is on ball when he's switching hands, but it is only for a 1/10th of a second and the ball itself does not move from where it is pinned in his stomach, so yeah I don't think you can say no control when the ball is controlled against receiver's body throughout.
Yes it can. While there is an instant where neither hand is on ball when he's switching hands, but it is only for a 1/10th of a second and the ball itself does not move from where it is pinned in his stomach, so yeah I don't think you can say no control when the ball is controlled against receiver's body throughout.
You can clearly see the ball come off his body when he takes both hands off the ball. It's floating in the air.
"Gifted"? I don't know if that's the right word. In real time, I'm saying catch all day, unless I just happened to have the absolute perfect angle, in close proximity, and I'm staring it down. Otherwise, I'm not seeing that bobble/adjustment. I have no idea if their replays would have seen what's on that slow-mo closeup like that, so no clue if it would have been reversed. It definitely wasn't a catch, seeing that video ... but it's likely one of those "too close to call" situations, unless they had time to pinpoint that angle, and zoom in and watch it a few times .. so whatever the call was .. the call was. Helluva play before that ... helluva throw and attempted catch on that "TD," as well. I'd like to think we would have found a way to punch it in even if it wasn't called a TD. It's just very clear, indisputable evidence (via that video) that he let the ball go entirely, and it was floating in air before he regained possession, at which point, he was OOB.
I'm not just going to insist something is what it isn't, just because it benefits the team I'm rooting for. Don't you notice that's how these things go? Most people rooting for Team X will insist a play went one way, and most people rooting for Team Y will insist that same play went the exact opposite, even though they're looking at the same exact thing? And they all swear they're being honest and accurate. It's what they want to see, not what's really there.
It is not a clear no catch because we all know the call would never be reversed. Not enough evidence. I don't think even the evidence you say would rule it a no catch would be enough to overturn. Just not conclusive enough. If they ain't reversing that 4th down spot they ain't reversing this one. When I went through the replay I see his left hand back on the ball (it was off for a fraction of a second) then he has it to his body right before his whole body is out of bounds.
This board will argue to the death about anything. 
No one at the time, including the announcers, thought it was anything but a TD. You’d swear it was a 4 point game and this changed the outcome. Penn St won by 22 points.
It’s crazy the WVU coach would fixate on it as if it was the deciding factor in the game, especially since he’s arguing about 7 points for PSU when his team was gifted 9 points by that same replay official.
No one at the time, including the announcers, thought it was anything but a TD. You’d swear it was a 4 point game and this changed the outcome. Penn St won by 22 points.
It’s crazy the WVU coach would fixate on it as if it was the deciding factor in the game, especially since he’s arguing about 7 points for PSU when his team was gifted 9 points by that same replay official.
The announcers also couldn’t figure out why Allar was angry after the bad snap, and after looking at a replay where you could see the safety clapping, they still insisted they saw the defense doing nothing wrong. The point? The announcers are not your best defense.This board will argue to the death about anything.
No one at the time, including the announcers, thought it was anything but a TD. You’d swear it was a 4 point game and this changed the outcome. Penn St won by 22 points.
It’s crazy the WVU coach would fixate on it as if it was the deciding factor in the game, especially since he’s arguing about 7 points for PSU when his team was gifted 9 points by that same replay official.
Clear no catch from the video. Again, you see him take both hands off, you see the ball float, you see relevant body parts touching out of bounds when he regains control.
The announcers didn’t notice it because in the replay they showed at the time the WVU player that clapped was not visible. He was out of the picture. He was only seen on a later replay and they had moved on.
What does it even matter to you to be so worked up over it? It’s literally being fixated on something completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game.
Yep, time to move on from this play. I believe had control while inbounds but irrelevant in the big picture.This board will argue to the death about anything.
No one at the time, including the announcers, thought it was anything but a TD. You’d swear it was a 4 point game and this changed the outcome. Penn St won by 22 points.
It’s crazy the WVU coach would fixate on it as if it was the deciding factor in the game, especially since he’s arguing about 7 points for PSU when his team was gifted 9 points by that same replay official.
This is just wishful think on your part. He re-positioned the ball with control.
It was visible in a “later replay,” as you stated … but they definitely hadn’t moved on .. in fact, in that later replay, they were specifically looking for anything the defense had done to potentially cause the bad snap. It’s the replay with the view behind Allar, where the announcers really went in-depth on the play to see just what happened … you see the safety clap, you see the snap, the announcer says “all of a sudden the ball was snapped right away … there’s nothing that the defense was doing … I didn’t see anybody bobbing their head or certainly not making that clapping motion … he’s saying there was a clap but that’s certainly not the case based on the video that we just saw …”
But that’s not really the topic … that was just to highlight that relying on the announcers’ opinions for this kind of thing isn’t really worthwhile. But this exchange did, at least, if unwittingly, highlight the questionable nature of people’s recounting and interpretation of events.
