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No Sex Scandal at Penn State, Just A "Political Hit Job"

What don't you understand? The the sexual conduct reference was to 2001. It was accepted by everyone, incliding Paterno, that he just claimed being told of Sandusky doing something if a sexual nature with the boy in 2001.

It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this.

Do you not understand what the word "other" means?

This is from JVP's grand jury testimony:

Q: I’d like to direct your attention to what I believe would be a spring break of 2002, around that time. Do you recall Michael McQueary calling you and asking to have a discussion with you about something that he observed?

Mr. Paterno: I’m not sure of the date, but he did call me on a Saturday morning. He said he had something that he wanted to discuss. I said, come on over to the house.

He came over to the house.

And as I said, I’m not sure what year it was, but I know it was a Saturday morning and we discussed something he had seen.

Q: Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?

Mr. Paterno: Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy.

Q: Did he identify who that older person was?

Mr. Paterno: Yes, a man by the name of Jerry Sandusky who had been one of our coaches, was not at the time.

Q: You’re saying that at the time this incident was reported to you, Sandusky was no longer a coach?
Mr. Paterno: No, he had retired voluntarily. I’m not sure exactly the year, but I think it was either ‘98 or ‘99.

Q: I think you used the term fondling. Is that the term that you used?

Mr. Paterno: Well, I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously, he was doing something with the youngster.

It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was.

I didn’t push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset. Obviously, I was in a little bit of a dilemma since Mr. Sandusky was not working for me anymore.

So I told — I didn’t go any further than that except I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.

The most important thing we learn from this is that even Joe questioned the OAG's assertion about the date. 2002 was most certainly used so they could fit the FTR charge under the ten year statute of limitations. This was done with malice and is far worse than what we now know any of those charged did relative to Sandusky. Add that to the "anal intercourse" fabrication and Noonan's incredibly inappropriate remarks at the PC and even you should be able to see that the fix was in.

To your point, Joe first said he was told of fondling. Then he backed off, saying it was "some kind of inappropriate action". Mike was specifically asked if he had seen fondling and he testified that he had not.
You're asking an 85 year old man in failing health to recall a 10 minute conversation a decade ago. I'm sure he was apprehensive. But if Mike didn't see fondling, why would he tell Joe he had? Was Joe coached by Scott or Mike? Regardless, Joe clarified his comments when he had the chance. You just don't want to accept it.

Also, Joe's "sexual nature" comment is completely contradicted by the notes and emails from 2001. As these written communications are the only hard evidence from that time, I put far more credence in them than I do the testimony of anyone, especially Mike McQueary.

And it shouldn't be overlooked that Alan Myers was having the time of his life. In his own words, he was sliding back and forth along the shower floor and snapping towels with the man he thought of as his father. Whatever physical contact there was may have been initiated by him. In the context of "horseplay", Jerry wrapping his arms around the boy's waist from behind makes sense. You obviously wouldn't want them facing each other. And since Jerry was so much taller, the mere act of bending over to hug him that way would push his pelvis away from the boy. Try it. Stand behind a chair and then bend over and wrap your arms around the back of it. It's wrong to just assume any of that was sexual. And isn't it funny that V2 is the only victim you're allowed to question?

The larger reality is if any of these people thought they had something to hide, they would have had their stories straight. There would have been evidence of conspiracy and all the other horrible things with which they were accused. What Mike told them was clearly inappropriate behavior and it was a huge liability risk for JS and a boy to be alone in that situation. It's perfectly understandable that PSU officials would want to prevent that situation from occurring in the future. But that's all the evidence from that time suggests. If they thought CSA had occurred, their actions would have reflected it. This was a witch hunt.
 
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Do you not understand what the word "other" means?

This is from JVP's grand jury testimony:

Q: I’d like to direct your attention to what I believe would be a spring break of 2002, around that time. Do you recall Michael McQueary calling you and asking to have a discussion with you about something that he observed?

Mr. Paterno: I’m not sure of the date, but he did call me on a Saturday morning. He said he had something that he wanted to discuss. I said, come on over to the house.

He came over to the house.

And as I said, I’m not sure what year it was, but I know it was a Saturday morning and we discussed something he had seen.

Q: Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?

Mr. Paterno: Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy.

Q: Did he identify who that older person was?

Mr. Paterno: Yes, a man by the name of Jerry Sandusky who had been one of our coaches, was not at the time.

Q: You’re saying that at the time this incident was reported to you, Sandusky was no longer a coach?
Mr. Paterno: No, he had retired voluntarily. I’m not sure exactly the year, but I think it was either ‘98 or ‘99.

Q: I think you used the term fondling. Is that the term that you used?

Mr. Paterno: Well, I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously, he was doing something with the youngster.

It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was.

I didn’t push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset. Obviously, I was in a little bit of a dilemma since Mr. Sandusky was not working for me anymore.

So I told — I didn’t go any further than that except I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.

The most important thing we learn from this is that even Joe questioned the OAG's assertion about the date. 2002 was most certainly used so they could fit the FTR charge under the ten year statute of limitations. This was done with malice and is far worse than what we now know any of those charged did relative to Sandusky. Add that to the "anal intercourse" fabrication and Noonan's incredibly inappropriate remarks at the PC and even you should be able to see that the fix was in.

To your point, Joe first said he was told of fondling. Then he backed off, saying it was "some kind of inappropriate action". Mike was specifically asked if he had seen fondling and he testified that he had not.
You're asking an 85 year old man in failing health to recall a 10 minute conversation a decade ago. I'm sure he was apprehensive. But if Mike didn't see fondling, why would he tell Joe he had? Was Joe coached by Scott or Mike? Regardless, Joe clarified his comments when he had the chance. You just don't want to accept it.

Also, Joe's "sexual nature" comment is completely contradicted by the notes and emails from 2001. As these written communications are the only hard evidence from that time, I put far more credence in them than I do the testimony of anyone, especially Mike McQueary.

And it shouldn't be overlooked that Alan Myers was having the time of his life. In his own words, he was sliding back and forth along the shower floor and snapping towels with the man he thought of as his father. Whatever physical contact there was may have been initiated by him. In the context of "horseplay", Jerry wrapping his arms around the boy's waist from behind makes sense. You obviously wouldn't want them facing each other. And since Jerry was so much taller, the mere act of bending over to hug him that way would push his pelvis away from the boy. Try it. Stand behind a chair and then bend over and wrap your arms around the back of it. It's wrong to just assume any of that was sexual. And isn't it funny that V2 is the only victim you're allowed to question?

The larger reality is if any of these people thought they had something to hide, they would have had their stories straight. There would have been evidence of conspiracy and all the other horrible things with which they were accused. What Mike told them was clearly inappropriate behavior and it was a huge liability risk for JS and a boy to be alone in that situation. It's perfectly understandable that PSU officials would want to prevent that situation from occurring in the future. But that's all the evidence from that time suggests. If they thought CSA had occurred, their actions would have reflected it. This was a witch hunt.
LOL at you not making the "it was a sexual nature" part blue. Almost like you want to pretend it never happened.
 
You state this as someone who clearly either doesn't know anything about child sexual abuse, or who doesn't care. To you the only thing that would likely qualify is someone saying "Mr Sandusky raped me". It's the same equivocating and ignorance that Tim and Gary attempted to use. Of course the likelihood of an 11 year old child being able to make such a direct report like that is low, but never the less despite the uncomfortable nature of the circumstances he did indeed convey enough to a professional who was licensed and trained for that professional to correctly state:

"My consultants and I agree that the incidents meet all of our definitions, based on experience and education, of a likely pedophile's pattern of building trust and gradual introduction of physical touch, with a context of a "loving", "special" relationship."

How would JVP have known that? And why wasn't Sandusky indicated at the very least, if they felt so strongly that he might be a danger to children?
 
LOL at you not making the "it was a sexual nature" part blue. Almost like you want to pretend it never happened.

And at you for missing my point!

As I've said, I don't care what Joe said. Mike specifically testified that he had not seen fondling. Joe said fondling. Curley and Schultz said neither MM or JVP told them it was sexual, only inappropriate. After ten years, I'd be more suspicious if their stories aligned. But since they contradict each other, I can only go by the hard evidence from the time. That evidence supports the testimonies of C/S/S. And that doesn't mean that Jerry isn't exactly who Jim Clemente claimed he is. This was a witch hunt against C/S/S and Penn State. That much is now clear.

Where this conversation needs to go now is why? Who benefited the most from protecting TSM?
 
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Yeah, that as well. Just silliness.
Short of MM having a video and Joe seeing it, nothing happened. Then again Indy still isn't sure about JS either. That unfair trial may have framed him. I don't even get upset with Steve or Indy, they simply cannot deal with what occurred. At some point it just will be seen as sad.
 
And at you for missing my point!

As I've said, I don't care what Joe said. Mike specifically testified that he had not seen fondling. Joe said fondling. Curley and Schultz said neither MM or JVP told them it was sexual, only inappropriate. After ten years, I'd be more suspicious if their stories aligned. But since they contradict each other, I can only go by the hard evidence from the time. That evidence supports the testimonies of C/S/S. And that doesn't mean that Jerry isn't exactly who Jim Clemente claimed he is. This was a witch hunt against C/S/S and Penn State. That much is now clear.

Where this conversation needs to go now is why? Who benefited the most from protecting TSM?
Haha. "I don't care what Joe said." Lol. Yeah because you don't believe Joe. You think he was tricked by the authorities. I get it. You think Joe was incapable of testifying what really happened. Good for you.
 
How would JVP have known that? And why wasn't Sandusky indicated at the very least, if they felt so strongly that he might be a danger to children?

I didn't say JVP would know that as it isn't clear what Joe was informed about the nature of the investigation or accusation. The point was to correct your simplistic analysis of the 98 accusation. CSA is not simple or logical, and it's not as easy as saying "no accusation of sexual assault, fact!"

Regarding the second part of your question, Chambers was indicating possible abuse. Why that wasn't considered or accepted is a matter for debate. Some feel it was political jockeying to protect Jerry or it could simply be a less qualified person not understanding the situation.
 
Haha. "I don't care what Joe said." Lol. Yeah because you don't believe Joe. You think he was tricked by the authorities. I get it. You think Joe was incapable of testifying what really happened. Good for you.
Of course he was incapable of testifying what really happened. He wasn't the witness!
 
I work with Child Protective Services.. when someone uses a term like fondling or touching or sexual nature or any words that aren't specific, I ask what that person means and I ask to describe the specific act. You might be surprised the variety of things those words mean to different people. Those words could mean rubbing privates or rubbing shoulders or touching someone's hand or looking at someone in "sexual way" to those people. What Joe meant is assumed as the worst because of all the information that came later. The grand jury presentment had the words it wanted. Sexual and fondling and there was no motive for them to get clarification. I'm still not sure anyone has been able to say what the alleged sexual act was. The person coming forward saying they were the victim denies anything that night. So either he's lying that he's this kid or most people aren't believing his story. It is ironic that this victim isn't believed but all the others are without question. Plenty of questions still but some have it all figured out..
 
I work with Child Protective Services.. when someone uses a term like fondling or touching or sexual nature or any words that aren't specific, I ask what that person means and I ask to describe the specific act. You might be surprised the variety of things those words mean to different people. Those words could mean rubbing privates or rubbing shoulders or touching someone's hand or looking at someone in "sexual way" to those people. What Joe meant is assumed as the worst because of all the information that came later. The grand jury presentment had the words it wanted. Sexual and fondling and there was no motive for them to get clarification. I'm still not sure anyone has been able to say what the alleged sexual act was. The person coming forward saying they were the victim denies anything that night. So either he's lying that he's this kid or most people aren't believing his story. It is ironic that this victim isn't believed but all the others are without question. Plenty of questions still but some have it all figured out..

You are quite incorrect, the Indictments list Probable cause and "particulars" in the case of the Felony Perjury - in both instances and on all the C/S/S Perjury, Obstruction of Justice and Conspiracy Indictments the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" is used as "Exhibit A" in support of Probable Cause (and the "particulars" in the case of the Felony Perjury charges)....and the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" is quite specific and clear in what it claims Mike McQueary "saw" and "eyewitnessed" as well as being specific that he had told both his Father and Dr. Dranov that he had "seen" this (his father twice, supposedly over the phone from his office phone at Lasch and then told him again what he had seen when he arrived at his house - both times the event was still in-progress as far as both Mike and his father knew supposedly!). I have made a detailed post on these topics earlier in this thread - refer to that.
 
Now, it's supposedly about "opinions" of whether Mike McQueary "testified to how upset he was"? Huh? Really? WTF? So according to you, in your fantasy kingdom, the indictments for Felony Perjury against Curley and Schultz (which were also the basis for the OoJ and Conspiracy charges) cited that MM "testified to how upset he was" as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" on the Indictment? (i.e., Curley and Schultz testified he [MM] wasn't in such an "emotional state", to use your term, when they spoke with him). Not only FACTUALLY WRONG, but factually wrong, made-up bull$hit as the ACTUAL Indictments reference the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" as "Exhibit A" supporting "Probable Cause" and "particulars" for the Indictments - and beyond that, Perjury Indictments must reference specific statements as the "particulars" and cannot list an "emotional state" as Probable Cause and the "particulars" on an Indictment!

Again, the ACTUAL Indictments in question list the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" making it The State's obligation to demonstrate all of the following essential claimed factual support of their Indictments in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" (100% of which are provably false relative to the ACTUAL Grand Jury testimony of Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov):






Again, the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" was used as the "Probable Cause" support for 100% of the double-digit Indictments against three separate individuals, C/S/S and every single one of these claimed FACTS in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" directly and DIAMETRICALLY conflicts with what Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov testified to the Grand Jury they sat before, but also what they have testified to at trial. IOW, the corrupt PA OAG used an INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" as Probable Cause support for 100% of the double-digit Indictments brought against C/S/S!

Your claim that the law and these cases are about "opinions" of "emotional states" testified to....blah, blah, blah is nothing but a bunch of specious bull$hit and irrelevant garbage relative to the actual cases. These cases are about claimed FACTS made by the corrupt OAG Prosecutor that are required to be proven by The State "beyond any reasonable doubt" which is an ABSOLUTE IMPOSSIBILITY given that it can be demonstrably proven beyond any doubt that the corrupt PA OAG made-up the INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT claimed pertinent facts of the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" (i.e., both "Prosecutorial Misconduct" and "Malicious Prosecution") as proven by the ACTUAL testimony of MM, JM and Dr. D to the Grand Jury as well as their subsequent statements at-trial on the topics - all of which DIAMETRICALLY conflicts with the pertinent facts claimed by the corrupt PA OAG.
Everyone that saw and spoke to MM right after it happened, within a day, remarked that he was distraught, extremely upset, etc.

You think that was the result of something he would describe as horseplay? No. That's difficult to get around when looking at it logically.

And will you please quit with marathon posts that essentially just repeat the same phrases over and over. What ever points you're attempting to get across is lost in your desire to sound important/official.
 
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Everyone that saw and spoke to MM right after it happened, within a day, remarked that he was distraught, extremely upset, etc.

You think that was the result of something he would describe as horseplay? No. That's difficult to get around when looking at it logically.
Despite MM being distraught, it is also extraordinarily difficult to get around is the fact that nobody reacted as if a crime had been committed. His father and Dranov even testified that the story they were told did not raise to the level of 'call police or authorities immediately'.

How can you get around that discrepancy in what people remember ten years later versus how they ALL reacted to what MM said to them.

Everyone. Reacted. The. Same. Way.

Moreover, the witness was so distraught over such a horrible situation that all he could muster was a locker door slam.

Something clearly is wrong in the equations.
 
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You are quite incorrect, the Indictments list Probable cause and "particulars" in the case of the Felony Perjury - in both instances and on all the C/S/S Perjury, Obstruction of Justice and Conspiracy Indictments the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" is used as "Exhibit A" in support of Probable Cause (and the "particulars" in the case of the Felony Perjury charges)....and the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" is quite specific and clear in what it claims Mike McQueary "saw" and "eyewitnessed" as well as being specific that he had told both his Father and Dr. Dranov that he had "seen" this (his father twice, supposedly over the phone from his office phone at Lasch and then told him again what he had seen when he arrived at his house - both times the event was still in-progress as far as both Mike and his father knew supposedly!). I have made a detailed post on these topics earlier in this thread - refer to that.

Perhaps I worded it wrong.. the presentment states MM said he saw anal intercourse. The court found Sandusky not guilty on that count but guilty of indecent assault, unlawful contact with minors, corruption of minors and EWOC. What specific act was Sandusky guilty of with this kid? It appears obvious to most that MM didn't effectively communicate a sexual act, let alone something as cut and dry as anal intercourse as presented in the grand jury report. If that was what was stated was occurring in the grand jury report and there was a not guilty verdict, then what was he guilty of? It's just an awfully soft case for one that had an eyewitness testifying. It is so unbelievably rare that there's an eyewitness of this type of abuse, yet they couldn't get a guilty verdict on the strongest charge.
 
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Everyone that saw and spoke to MM right after it happened, within a day, remarked that he was distraught, extremely upset, etc.

You think that was the result of something he would describe as horseplay? No. That's difficult to get around when looking at it logically.

So he saw something that made him appear extremely upset, but didn't call the cops or clearly tell anyone he saw CSA? That's difficult to get around when looking at it logically. Everyone that saw and spoke to MM right after it happened only testified to what was essentially horseplay, I don't know what you'd call it.

He could have just been acting upset. Maybe he wanted face time with Joe because of the job opening, and pretending to be upset was a reason to bother Joe at home on a weekend? It's more plausible than he saw CSA and told nobody for 10 years.
 
So he saw something that made him appear extremely upset, but didn't call the cops or clearly tell anyone he saw CSA? That's difficult to get around when looking at it logically. Everyone that saw and spoke to MM right after it happened only testified to what was essentially horseplay, I don't know what you'd call it.

He could have just been acting upset. Maybe he wanted face time with Joe because of the job opening, and pretending to be upset was a reason to bother Joe at home on a weekend? It's more plausible than he saw CSA and told nobody for 10 years.
Good spin
 
Chapter and verse from the congregation of Hang JVP and the PSU3.
Mike ran away then he told his father and Dr. D that he witnessed JS inflicting "some sort of sodomy" on a young boy..."way over the line. Then for 10 years, not only GS2 and TC failed to act but Dad, MM,Towny and his whole family.
Makes perfect sense...lol
 
Chapter and verse from the congregation of Hang JVP and the PSU3.
Mike ran away then he told his father and Dr. D that he witnessed JS inflicting "some sort of sodomy" on a young boy..."way over the line. Then for 10 years, not only GS2 and TC failed to act but Dad, MM,Towny and his whole family.
Makes perfect sense...lol

Yeah, why is it that only Joe, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier were supposed to act? Why not Dranov, Dr. McQueary, mike, towny, or raykovitz? It couldn't be because Joe, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier were at the top of the food chain at PENN. STATE. :eek: could it? Nah, that has no bearing on the situation. Nah.

I got it. While Dranov, Dr. McQueary, mike, towny, and raykovitz all knew, Joe, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier were knowier. In fact, Joe was knowiest. Yeah, that's it. :eek:
 
Perhaps I worded it wrong.. the presentment states MM said he saw anal intercourse. The court found Sandusky not guilty on that count but guilty of indecent assault, unlawful contact with minors, corruption of minors and EWOC. What specific act was Sandusky guilty of with this kid? It appears obvious to most that MM didn't effectively communicate a sexual act, let alone something as cut and dry as anal intercourse as presented in the grand jury report. If that was what was stated was occurring in the grand jury report and there was a not guilty verdict, then what was he guilty of? It's just an awfully soft case for one that had an eyewitness testifying. It is so unbelievably rare that there's an eyewitness of this type of abuse, yet they couldn't get a guilty verdict on the strongest charge.

It's obvious now that MM's confidence in what he saw has improved dramatically and suspiciously since 2001. That would be sad for the kid and for Mike if not for the evidence that no sexual abuse took place in the shower that night. Still, when confronted with the embellished horror show the OAG was trying to sell, it stands to reason that Mike would view his memories in a different light and come to feel guilty that he didn't do more. He's now either consciously or subconsciously trying to atone for his actions, or lack thereof. And of course, if he were to now admit he really didn't see anything definitive and never conveyed that he had, his whistle blower suit would crash and burn.
 
Indy I've always been cordial but you sir are full of shit. Only guy to be honest and answer questions directly in a criminal court. Even your friend tim admitted horseplay term cane from coach paterno not mike and also could hardly remember his name when he had a chance to answer questions directly and honestly.
 
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Indy I've always been cordial but you sir are full of shit. Only guy to be honest and answer questions directly in a criminal court. Even your friend tim admitted horseplay term cane from coach paterno not mike and also could hardly remember his name when he had a chance to answer questions directly and honestly.
Dukie, I speak to the disconnect between what MM testified he saw and he said....10+years after the incident and what he and everyone else actually did in the short term. If what Mike testified to is the truth, then GS2 and Tim should have company in prison.
 
Even your friend tim admitted horseplay term cane from coach paterno not mike

The term horseplay is descriptive, it doesn't really matter where it came from. It only matters that it conveys how people perceived the message.

It's like if you gave me a pepper and told me it would warm me up and make my mouth feel like it was on fire. Then I tell someone you said the pepper is spicy, and you get upset because you never used the term "spicy". It really doesn't matter that you didn't say the exact word "spicy", that was the message you conveyed.
 
Indy I've always been cordial but you sir are full of shit. Only guy to be honest and answer questions directly in a criminal court. Even your friend tim admitted horseplay term cane from coach paterno not mike and also could hardly remember his name when he had a chance to answer questions directly and honestly.

Just to clarify are you saying there has never been any grey area to what Mike reported and that he always knew exactly what was going on in that shower ie child abuse?

If so then how do you explain Mikes email to Escbach where he uses the phrase "whatever it was" and his testimony where Mike used phrases like "it looked like intercourse" and he "wasn't 1000% sure"??

From 12/16/11 prelim (which echoes MM's email)

Q: Right, and you didn't use those words because you weren't sure that that is what was happening in the shower, right?

A: Ma'am. I'm sure I saw what I saw in the shower. I'm sure of that. I did not see insertion or penetration and I didn't hear protests or any verbiage but I do know what I saw and the positions they were in that -- and it was very clear that it looked like there was intercourse going on, ma'am.

Q: But you would not say for sure that that's what you saw?
A: I’ve testified that I cannot tell you 1,000 percent sure that that’s what was going on
Q: Well, let’s just say 100 percent sure
A: Okay, 100 percent sure
Q: Okay, you can’t say that?
A: No

It sure seems to me from his email to the OAG and subsequent testimony (and that of JM and Dr D) that yes Mike was upset in 2001 due to the circumstances but he couldn't say for sure exactly what they were doing bc he couldn't really see anything. If that was the case then Mike has some explaining to do bc in his initial written statement to the OAG Mike used much stronger language by saying he was certain sodomy was occurring (which shows NO grey area).
 
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The term horseplay is descriptive, it doesn't really matter where it came from. It only matters that it conveys how people perceived the message.

It's like if you gave me a pepper and told me it would warm me up and make my mouth feel like it was on fire. Then I tell someone you said the pepper is spicy, and you get upset because you never used the term "spicy". It really doesn't matter that you didn't say the exact word "spicy", that was the message you conveyed.
Horseplay....rough housing....
 
Horseplay....rough housing....

Exactly. People get all excited because MM never used that term. It's just irrelevant distraction. That is certainly a term someone of Paterno's age could have used to describe what he was told.

It's like the telephone game, give someone a phrase and have a line of people repeat it to each other, it comes out different at the end of the chain. Everyone filters it their own way. If someone has an important message that needs conveyed to someone, say the police... it's best they do it directly and immediately.
 
Everyone that saw and spoke to MM right after it happened, within a day, remarked that he was distraught, extremely upset, etc.

You think that was the result of something he would describe as horseplay? No. That's difficult to get around when looking at it logically....

Maybe it was horseplay, but it sounded like sexual abuse. Maybe it was sexual abuse, but it sounded like horseplay.

In the end, MM didn't have the power of his convictions. There was a difference between what he knew and what he suspected. Not only was his report vague and nondescript with Joe out of respect, but he was probably less distraught and careful about what he told C/S when he met with them ten days later. Based on what they were told, C/S/S thought they were doing what was right ("humane and a reasonable approach"). JVP never saw the need to question their actions, to our knowledge. Both Joe and Tim followed up with Mike. So if Mike felt strongly that what he saw/heard was over the line, he should have done more at the time to make his displeasure felt. More than likely, Mike never saw anything of which he could be sure and believed he had done all he could or should under the circumstances.
 
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Exactly. People get all excited because MM never used that term. It's just irrelevant distraction. That is certainly a term someone of Paterno's age could have used to describe what he was told.

It's like the telephone game, give someone a phrase and have a line of people repeat it to each other, it comes out different at the end of the chain. Everyone filters it their own way. If someone has an important message that needs conveyed to someone, say the police... it's best they do it directly and immediately.
What people did, speaks volumes..........no one is truthful if they testify to what they said a decade ago.
 
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