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No Sex Scandal at Penn State, Just A "Political Hit Job"

JimmyW, your article LINKED HERE misses another very obvious FALSE CLAIM relative to what was actually reported to the SWIGJ by Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov....

As you point out, it's first false claim is this:

He [MM] saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.

However, it's second very clear false statement relative to testimony actually given to the SWIGJ, is this doozy:

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home.

Clearly says that MM called his father and reported what he had seen, which the Presentment said, only a couple sentences prior, was, "He [MM] saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.". Beyond that, the Presentment says in the next sentence that John McQueary's reaction to being told about the anal-rape of a 10 year old boy was to tell his 28 year old, 6' 5" 250 lb former football player son to "leave the building and come to his home". Huh???

All of this testimony diametrically conflicts with what John McQueary says - he says he wasn't told about any sexual assault whatsoever, let alone rape, and he told Mike to go to his house because Mike said the kid wasn't in danger, but was very upset at the inappropriateness of Sandusky's behavior.

Then the Presentment goes on to make the same false claim that Mike told his father and Dranov what he had seen at his father's house and they decided it should be reported AFTER THE FACT to Paterno....(rather than call Police - another staggering, huh???). Whereupon, Mike supposed told JVP "what he had seen" (i.e., again reference what the Presentment claims MM says he saw -- which MM never told the "30th SWIGJ" that he saw and MM disputes that he ever told anyone he saw these things despite conjecturing about what may have been going on.).

Lastly, What the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" says on all of these items is EXTREMELY RELEVANT from a legal perspective because as you cited, the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" was Exhibit A on the Criminal Complaints (i.e., Indictments) and served as the OAG's supposed "Probable Cause" (and "particulars" in the case of the Perjury charges) for the Indictments!

The only reason these Indictments survived as long as they did was the corrupt PA Judiciary which originally denied numerous motions for Prosecutorial Misconduct all of which were appealled (ultimately getting quashed for Prosecutorial Misconduct in one of many, many Prosecutorial Misconduct motions made -- i.e., any one of the many, many, many legitimate motions to quash the Indictments for Prosecutorial Misconduct would have won, it happened that the Baldwin one won first on Appeal...).

Just absurd, and an indication of how corrupt PA Government and the PA Judiciary are, that it took this long to quash the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" Indictments which are clearly FRAUDULENT relative to the actual testimony made to the SWIGJ - most of which was made to the "30th SWIGJ", not the 33rd!!!
 
JimmyW, your article LINKED HERE misses another very obvious FALSE CLAIM relative to what was actually reported to the SWIGJ by Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov....

As you point out, it's first false claim is this:


However, it's second very clear false statement relative to testimony actually given to the SWIGJ, is this doozy:


Clearly says that MM called his father and reported what he had seen, which the Presentment said, only a couple sentences prior, was, "He [MM] saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.". Beyond that, the Presentment says in the next sentence that John McQueary's reaction to being told about the anal-rape of a 10 year old boy was to tell his 28 year old, 6' 5" 250 lb former football player son to "leave the building and come to his home". Huh???

All of this testimony diametrically conflicts with what John McQueary says - he says he wasn't told about any sexual assault whatsoever, let alone rape, and he told Mike to go to his house because Mike said the kid wasn't in danger, but was very upset at the inappropriateness of Sandusky's behavior.

Then the Presentment goes on to make the same false claim that Mike told his father and Dranov what he had seen at his father's house and they decided it should be reported AFTER THE FACT to Paterno....(rather than call Police - another staggering, huh???). Whereupon, Mike supposed told JVP "what he had seen" (i.e., again reference what the Presentment claims MM says he saw -- which MM never told the "30th SWIGJ" that he saw and MM disputes that he ever told anyone he saw these things despite conjecturing about what may have been going on.).

Lastly, What the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" says on all of these items is EXTREMELY RELEVANT from a legal perspective because as you cited, the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" was Exhibit A on the Criminal Complaints (i.e., Indictments) and served as the OAG's supposed "Probable Cause" (and "particulars" in the case of the Perjury charges) for the Indictments!

The only reason these Indictments survived as long as they did was the corrupt PA Judiciary which originally denied numerous motions for Prosecutorial Misconduct all of which were appealled (ultimately getting quashed for Prosecutorial Misconduct in one of many, many Prosecutorial Misconduct motions made -- i.e., any one of the many, many, many legitimate motions to quash the Indictments for Prosecutorial Misconduct would have won, it happened that the Baldwin one won first on Appeal...).

Just absurd, and an indication of how corrupt PA Government and the PA Judiciary are, that it took this long to quash the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" Indictments which are clearly FRAUDULENT relative to the actual testimony made to the SWIGJ - most of which was made to the "30th SWIGJ", not the 33rd!!!

Very well researched.
 
Paterno's is not sworn testimony.

MMs sworn testimony is all over the map.

You believe MM but then you do not believe his dad and Dranov, who countered one of MMs version of events.
You do not believe Curley and Schulz.
That is, shall we say, mighty convenient and selective parsing of commentary to support your position. On cross-examination, you get killed for your weak and unsupported claims.
Paterno was under oath. It was sworn testimony.
 
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"I don't know what you'd call it"
"I'm not sure what it was."

Joe was a witness in a grand jury. He was not given the opportunity for cross examination or asked by the prosecuting attorney to clarify his testimony. When he had that opportunity, he said MM didn't tell him anything similar to what was written in the presentment.

And no I don't believe MM. In fact, I would put MM in the same category as Alan Myers. I believe what they said for free and voluntarily. I don't believe what they said with $ millions on the line.
So why didn't Paterno correct Eshbach and tell her that he wasn't sure if what he was told was sexual when she asked this:

Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
 
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"I don't know what you'd call it"
"I'm not sure what it was."

Joe was a witness in a grand jury. He was not given the opportunity for cross examination or asked by the prosecuting attorney to clarify his testimony. When he had that opportunity, he said MM didn't tell him anything similar to what was written in the presentment.

And no I don't believe MM. In fact, I would put MM in the same category as Alan Myers. I believe what they said for free and voluntarily. I don't believe what they said with $ millions on the line.
MM originally had nothing on the line and everyone that had contact with him in the wake of what he saw has testified about how upset he was.

He saw something and he didn't think it was horseplay.

MM's emotional state goes a long way in my mind when deciding what I believe he saw and told people.

FWIW: I'm not trying to belittle or attack your opinion. I understand that there's been so many things said at this point we're all basically having to choose sides. It really shouldn't be like that, but that's how this board, and our society for the most part, functions these days.
 
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So why didn't Paterno correct Eshbach and tell her that he wasn't sure if what he was told was sexual when she asked this:

Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
He didn't have to. Jerry was not accused of inappropriate sexual conduct in 1998. That's not some smart ass answer. It's the truth and it matters. It would have been wrong for Joe to have said yes.
 
MM originally had nothing on the line and everyone that had contact with him in the wake of what he saw has testified about how upset he was.

He saw something and he didn't think it was horseplay.

MM's emotional state goes a long way in my mind when deciding what I believe he saw and told people.

FWIW: I'm not trying to belittle or attack your opinion. I understand that there's been so many things said at this point we're all basically having to choose sides. It really shouldn't be like that, but that's how this board, and our society for the most part, functions these days.

Now, it's supposedly about "opinions" of whether Mike McQueary "testified to how upset he was"? Huh? Really? WTF? So according to you, in your fantasy kingdom, the indictments for Felony Perjury against Curley and Schultz (which were also the basis for the OoJ and Conspiracy charges) cited that MM "testified to how upset he was" as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" on the Indictment? (i.e., Curley and Schultz testified he [MM] wasn't in such an "emotional state", to use your term, when they spoke with him). Not only FACTUALLY WRONG, but factually wrong, made-up bull$hit as the ACTUAL Indictments reference the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" as "Exhibit A" supporting "Probable Cause" and "particulars" for the Indictments - and beyond that, Perjury Indictments must reference specific statements as the "particulars" and cannot list an "emotional state" as Probable Cause and the "particulars" on an Indictment!

Again, the ACTUAL Indictments in question list the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" making it The State's obligation to demonstrate all of the following essential claimed factual support of their Indictments in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" (100% of which are provably false relative to the ACTUAL Grand Jury testimony of Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov):

He [MM] saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home.

The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno (“Paterno”), head football coach of Penn State. The morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen.

Again, the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" was used as the "Probable Cause" support for 100% of the double-digit Indictments against three separate individuals, C/S/S and every single one of these claimed FACTS in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" directly and DIAMETRICALLY conflicts with what Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov testified to the Grand Jury they sat before, but also what they have testified to at trial. IOW, the corrupt PA OAG used an INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" as Probable Cause support for 100% of the double-digit Indictments brought against C/S/S!

Your claim that the law and these cases are about "opinions" of "emotional states" testified to....blah, blah, blah is nothing but a bunch of specious bull$hit and irrelevant garbage relative to the actual cases. These cases are about claimed FACTS made by the corrupt OAG Prosecutor that are required to be proven by The State "beyond any reasonable doubt" which is an ABSOLUTE IMPOSSIBILITY given that it can be demonstrably proven beyond any doubt that the corrupt PA OAG made-up the INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT claimed pertinent facts of the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" (i.e., both "Prosecutorial Misconduct" and "Malicious Prosecution") as proven by the ACTUAL testimony of MM, JM and Dr. D to the Grand Jury as well as their subsequent statements at-trial on the topics - all of which DIAMETRICALLY conflicts with the pertinent facts claimed by the corrupt PA OAG.
 
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Yes. You are actually, in fact extra creepy. With a side order of skeezy.

You put the physical contact aside like it's nothing.

This is not a YMCA. It wasn't 1975 or even 1985. This is not even an open campus shower room. And the adult was known to the witness, who fully well knew he didn't have any sons of that age.

Creepy. Skeezy.

It's not the YMCA, your local Gold's Gym, or any other type of "public" shower. It was a private PSU football facility locker room accessible ONLY by having keys in after hours, and it was after hours. If Jerry had actually been in a YMCA locker room shower no one would have thought twice about it. Instead Jerry repeatedly took kids to places after hours where he would likely be alone with them.

Creepy doesn't even begin to explain your thoughts on this Indy.
 
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He didn't have to. Jerry was not accused of inappropriate sexual conduct in 1998. That's not some smart ass answer. It's the truth and it matters. It would have been wrong for Joe to have said yes.
What don't you understand? The the sexual conduct reference was to 2001. It was accepted by everyone, incliding Paterno, that he just claimed being told of Sandusky doing something if a sexual nature with the boy in 2001.

It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this.
 
It's not the YMCA, your local Gold's Gym, or any other type of "public" shower. It was a private PSU football facility locker room accessible ONLY by having keys in after hours, and it was after hours. If Jerry had actually been in a YMCA locker room shower no one would have thought twice about it. Instead Jerry repeatedly took kids to places after hours where he would likely be alone with them.

Creepy doesn't even begin to explain your thoughts on this Indy.
It's amazing how that guy kept ending up alone with boys, engaging in physical contact. Wrestling, showers and bear hugs, all in private.
 
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It's amazing how that guy kept ending up alone with boys, engaging in physical contact. Wrestling, showers and bear hugs, all in private.

And all while working under the auspice and "Custody & Care" of TSM Registered Programs and the local DPW/CYS Office, TSM's Licensor and Regulator for the Registered TSM Program! LMFAO, now it's PSU's fault that TSM and DPW/CYS failed to regulate JS's TSM activities properly??? More of your typically pathetic garbage!
 
And all while working under the auspice and "Custody & Care" of TSM Registered Programs and the local DPW/CYS Office, TSM's Licensor and Regulator for the Registered TSM Program! LMFAO, now it's PSU's fault that TSM and DPW/CYS failed to regulate JS's TSM activities properly??? More of your typically pathetic garbage!
If CSS protected PSU like they should have, this all could have been avoided. But alas...
 
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What don't you understand? The the sexual conduct reference was to 2001. It was accepted by everyone, including Paterno, that he just claimed being told of Sandusky doing something if a sexual nature with the boy in 2001.

It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this.

You continue to use "polluted" statements to support what is now obviously a "Story" based on managed, manufactured and targeted public mis-information.

FACT...your statements of what Paterno (and anyone else you mention) are based on 2011+ "transcripts" that do not conform to even BASIC SOX compliance standards regarding "handoff" of data statements. This means there is NO method of firm validation of what was said!! The core on which you continue to "argue" for criminal negligence is total fiction when viewed by any facts which expose 2001 information.

So if you want to debate the REALITY of the Penn State "Sandusky" situation ....you need to go back in time and use THAT INFORMATION ALONE as your basis for a discussion. We have from MULTIPLE SOURCES that CONFIRM that anything MM stated in 2011+ time frame (meaning EVERYTHING you state) did not cause ANYONE to act like Sandusky's behavior was anything more than stupid.

You continue to superimpose "STUPID" with criminal. In 2001 Sandusky was NOT viewed by anyone who MM spoke to as a pedophile - this is proven by the ACTIONS of those who spoke to MM in 2001. By conveniently mixing time periods you are trying to create an "alternate reality" where your "case for criminality" can (almost) reasonably exist.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOADER THAN WORD. If you want to realistically discuss this...then explain your case without using "tainted" 20011 statements which we know now have been "influenced" (f not totally constructed) by a corrupt OAG syndicate.
 
Please take this opportunity to use the Ignore feature.
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You continue to use "polluted" statements to support what is now obviously a "Story" based on managed, manufactured and targeted public mis-information.

FACT...your statements of what Paterno (and anyone else you mention) are based on 2011+ "transcripts" that do not conform to even BASIC SOX compliance standards regarding "handoff" of data statements. This means there is NO method of firm validation of what was said!! The core on which you continue to "argue" for criminal negligence is total fiction when viewed by any facts which expose 2001 information.

So if you want to debate the REALITY of the Penn State "Sandusky" situation ....you need to go back in time and use THAT INFORMATION ALONE as your basis for a discussion. We have from MULTIPLE SOURCES that CONFIRM that anything MM stated in 2011+ time frame (meaning EVERYTHING you state) did not cause ANYONE to act like Sandusky's behavior was anything more than stupid.

You continue to superimpose "STUPID" with criminal. In 2001 Sandusky was NOT viewed by anyone who MM spoke to as a pedophile - this is proven by the ACTIONS of those who spoke to MM in 2001. By conveniently mixing time periods you are trying to create an "alternate reality" where your "case for criminality" can (almost) reasonably exist.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOADER THAN WORD. If you want to realistically discuss this...then explain your case without using "tainted" 20011 statements which we know now have been "influenced" (f not totally constructed) by a corrupt OAG syndicate.

He doesn't debate on this subject, he trolls with the sole intent to rile people up. He's never added an interesting or intelligent point on this topic, just repeats the same lame argument over and over agaiin as if it's a fact. His posting history speaks for itself. Comical really.
 
What don't you understand? The the sexual conduct reference was to 2001. It was accepted by everyone, incliding Paterno, that he just claimed being told of Sandusky doing something if a sexual nature with the boy in 2001.

It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this.

More utter tripe and garbage from you despite multiple people pointing out to you that Paterno never provided TRIAL testimony or SWIGJ testimony read into the trial record that accomplishes what you claim it does - completely full of $hit yet again, but keep repeating the same bull$hit, wrong, garbage arguments, but you're not a troll - go figure...:rolleyes:

Here is a listing of the "particulars" that the OAG claimed on the Indictments in question as to what MM saw, eyewitnessed and supposedly told the first 3 people he spoke with (his father, Dr. Dranov and JVP) with the operative claims of the OAG in bold:

He [sic Mike McQueary] saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home.

The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno (“Paterno”), head football coach of Penn State. The morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen.

It is especially absurd to claim that Paterno's SWIGJ testimony counts as evidence about what Mike McQueary said he SAW AND EYEWITNESSED when Mike McQueary has testified under oath in a PA Court of Law multiple times, including to the "30th SWIGJ", that he DID NOT see or eyewitness what the corrupt OAG has claimed in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" used as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" in support of the Indictments in question AND has also stated that he NEVER TOLD ANYONE HE HAD SEEN SUCH A THING (and only conjectured about the possibility that that this was going on). Furthermore, he has testified that he NEVER TOLD PATERNO SUCH A THING (giving someone loose, extremely obtuse conjecture and hints as to what your worst possible concerns are in regards to "whatever they were doing", IS NOT TELLING SOMEONE THAT YOU SAW "It was a sexual nature" - or confirmation of "eyewitness" testimony to what the OAG claimed he saw - you fargging POS ramrod, hammer-head!).

Your "It was accepted by everyone" bull$hit is particularly typical of your lying bull$hit, garbage claims given that Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov all have stated that what the corrupt OAG has claimed in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment", which is the listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" for the Indictments in question, is FACTUALLY INCORRECT and MISREPRESENTS the FACTS and their SWIGJ testimony they gave in regards to the corrupt PA OAG statements in the Indictment that:
  • Mike McQueary saw and eyewitnessed "a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky."
  • Mike McQueary "called his father, reporting to him what he had seen." from his office phone at Lasch while the incident was still "IN-PROGRESS"
  • Mike McQueary told John McQueary and Dr. Dranov that this is what he saw at the McQueary household directly after leaving Lasch and while the incident was still "IN-PROGRESS" as far as any of them knew!
  • Based on MM telling them "He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.", John McQueary and Dr. Dranov recommended to MM (and MM agreed) that Police did not need to be called, but instead Mike should "report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno (“Paterno”), head football coach of Penn State. The morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen."
All of these claims of the Indictment's listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" can be shown to be UTTERLY FALSE and CONTRARY to what Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov testified to the Gand Jury and testified UNDER OATH and AT-TRIAL multiple times were false claims by the OAG in their Indictments! (and again, it is unclear whether JVP is asking a clarifying question of the OAG Examiner, whether he is stating that Mike provided conjecture that he [MM] thought it might have potentially been sexually motivated given the circumstances, etc., etc., etc., but he [JVP] ABSOLUTELY does not say that this is what Mike McQueary told him in regards to what he SAW and EYEWITNESSED nor would it COUNT as "at-trial" CORROBORATION of what MM said he saw and eyewitnessed especially when MM's own testimony as to what he said to JVP is EXCULPATORY in this regard!).

But given that Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov all 100% agree that the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment's" claims (the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" for the Indictments) as to what MM "saw" and "eyewitnessed" AND told others what he "saw" and "eyewitnessed" are FACTUALLY FALSE (and clearly intentionally FRAUDULENT to support illegitimate Indictments), you've got some nerve making a statement like "It was accepted by everyone" and the ever ironic last sentence, "It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this."!!!
 
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More utter tripe and garbage from you despite multiple people pointing out to you that Paterno never provided TRIAL testimony or SWIGJ testimony read into the trial record that accomplishes what you claim it does - completely full of $hit that yet again, but keep repeating the same bull$hit, wrong, garbage arguments, but you're not a troll. :rolleyes:

Here is a listing of the "particulars" that the OAG claimed on the Indictments in question as to what MM saw, eyewitnessed and supposedly told the first 3 people he spoke with (his father, Dr. Dranov and JVP) with the operative claims of the OAG in bold:






It is especially absurd to claim that Paterno's SWIGJ testimony counts as evidence about what Mike McQueary said he SAW AND EYEWITNESSED when Mike McQueary has testified under oath in a PA Court of Law multiple times, including to the "30th SWIGJ", that he DID NOT see or eyewitness what the corrupt OAG has claimed in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" used as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" in support of the Indictments in question AND has also stated that he NEVER TOLD ANYONE HE HAD SEEN SUCH A THING (and only conjectured about the possibility that that this was going on). Furthermore, he has testified that he NEVER TOLD PATERNO SUCH A THING (giving someone loose, extremely obtuse conjecture and hints as to what your worst possible concerns are in regards to "whatever they were doing", IS NOT TELLING SOMEONE THAT YOU SAW "It was a sexual nature" - or confirmation of "eyewitness" testimony to what the OAG claimed he saw - you fargging POS ramrod, hammer-head!

Your "It was accepted by everyone" bull$hit is particularly typical of your lying bull$hit, garbage claims given that Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov all have stated that what the corrupt OAG has claimed in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment", which is the listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" for the Indictments in question, is FACTUALLY lying and MISREPRESENTING the FACTS and their SWIGJ testimony when the corrupt PA OAG state's that:
  • Mike McQueary saw and eyewitnessed "a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky."
  • Mike McQueary "called his father, reporting to him what he had seen." from his office phone at Lasch while the incident was still "IN-PROGRESS"
  • He told John McQueary and Dr. Dranov that this is what he saw at the McQueary household directly after leaving Lasch and the incident was still "IN-PROGRESS" as far as any of them knew.
  • Based on MM telling them "He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.", John McQueary and Dr. Dranov recommended to MM (and MM agreed) that Police did not need to be called, but instead Mike should "report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno (“Paterno”), head football coach of Penn State. The morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen.
All of these claims of the Indictment's listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" can be shown to be UTTERLY FALSE and CONTRARY to what Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov testified to the Gand Jury and testified UNDER OATH and AT-TRIAL multiple times were false claims by the OAG in their Indictments! (and again, it is unclear whether JVP is asking a clarifying question of the OAG Examiner, whether he is stating that Mike provided conjectured that he thought it could have potentially been sexually motivated given the circumstances, etc., etc., etc., but he ABSOLUTELY does not say that this is what Mike McQueary told him in regards to what he SAW and EYEWITNESSED nor would it COUNT as "at-trial" CORROBORATION of what MM said he saw and eyewitnessed especially when MM's own testimony as to what he said to JVP is EXCULPATORY in this regard!).

But given that Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov all 100% agree that the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" claims as to what MM "saw" and "eyewitnessed" AND told others what he "saw" and "eyewitnessed" are FACTUALLY FALSE (and clearly intentionally FRAUDULENT to support illegitimate Indictments), you've got some nerve making a statement like "It was accepted by everyone" and the ever ironic last sentence, "It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this."!!!

I'm trying to follow all of the arguments here. Is it safe to say that in your opinion the 33rd SWIGJ was FRAUDULENT?
 
He didn't have to. Jerry was not accused of inappropriate sexual conduct in 1998. That's not some smart ass answer. It's the truth and it matters. It would have been wrong for Joe to have said yes.

You state this as someone who clearly either doesn't know anything about child sexual abuse, or who doesn't care. To you the only thing that would likely qualify is someone saying "Mr Sandusky raped me". It's the same equivocating and ignorance that Tim and Gary attempted to use. Of course the likelihood of an 11 year old child being able to make such a direct report like that is low, but never the less despite the uncomfortable nature of the circumstances he did indeed convey enough to a professional who was licensed and trained for that professional to correctly state:

"My consultants and I agree that the incidents meet all of our definitions, based on experience and education, of a likely pedophile's pattern of building trust and gradual introduction of physical touch, with a context of a "loving", "special" relationship."
 
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I'm trying to follow all of the arguments here. Is it safe to say that in your opinion the 33rd SWIGJ was FRAUDULENT?

Not according to "my opinion", according to Mike McQueary's, John McQueary's and Dr. Dranov's own direct testimony both to the Grand Jury they testified before (which typically was not the "33rd SWIGJ" btw) and AT-TRIAL the State's claims in their Indictments as to "Probable Cause" and "particulars" are PATENTLY FALSE and NOT what they testified to as to what they "saw" and "eyewitnessed" (sic MM) or were told by Mike McQueary what he "saw" and "eyewitnessed" (both John McQueary and Dr. Dranov have testified that what MM told them is nothing remotely close to what the State claims and in NO WAY described the CRIMINAL SEXUAL ASSAULT of a 10 year old child, let alone the anal-rape of same!).

So again, not according to "my opinion" - according to the mouth's of Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov (supposed "State Witness" that would corroborate the claims of the corrupt PA OAG's Indictments), the Indictment's listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" are ABSOLUTELY FALSE, FACTUALLY INCORRECT and DIAMETRICALLY MISREPRESENT THE FACTS of what they ACTUALLY TOLD the SWIGJ!!! IOW, they acted as the most powerful Defense Witnesses in the case and provided ABSOLUTE EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE disproving The State's case and PROVING that The State engaged in INTENTIONAL FRAUD to bring the Indictments in the first place which is DEFACTO "Prosecutorial Misconduct" and the very definition of "Malicious Prosecution" (i.e., bringing Indictments with ZERO NON-FRAUDULENT Probable Cause!).
 
What don't you understand? The the sexual conduct reference was to 2001. It was accepted by everyone, incliding Paterno, that he just claimed being told of Sandusky doing something if a sexual nature with the boy in 2001.

It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this.

More utter tripe and garbage from you despite multiple people pointing out to you that Paterno never provided TRIAL testimony or SWIGJ testimony read into the trial record that accomplishes what you claim it does - completely full of $hit yet again, but keep repeating the same bull$hit, wrong, garbage arguments, but you're not a troll - go figure...:rolleyes:

Here is a listing of the "particulars" that the OAG claimed on the Indictments in question as to what MM saw, eyewitnessed and supposedly told the first 3 people he spoke with (his father, Dr. Dranov and JVP) with the operative claims of the OAG in bold:






It is especially absurd to claim that Paterno's SWIGJ testimony counts as evidence about what Mike McQueary said he SAW AND EYEWITNESSED when Mike McQueary has testified under oath in a PA Court of Law multiple times, including to the "30th SWIGJ", that he DID NOT see or eyewitness what the corrupt OAG has claimed in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" used as the "Probable Cause" and "particulars" in support of the Indictments in question AND has also stated that he NEVER TOLD ANYONE HE HAD SEEN SUCH A THING (and only conjectured about the possibility that that this was going on). Furthermore, he has testified that he NEVER TOLD PATERNO SUCH A THING (giving someone loose, extremely obtuse conjecture and hints as to what your worst possible concerns are in regards to "whatever they were doing", IS NOT TELLING SOMEONE THAT YOU SAW "It was a sexual nature" - or confirmation of "eyewitness" testimony to what the OAG claimed he saw - you fargging POS ramrod, hammer-head!).

Your "It was accepted by everyone" bull$hit is particularly typical of your lying bull$hit, garbage claims given that Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov all have stated that what the corrupt OAG has claimed in the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment", which is the listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" for the Indictments in question, is FACTUALLY INCORRECT and MISREPRESENTS the FACTS and their SWIGJ testimony they gave in regards to the corrupt PA OAG statements in the Indictment that:
  • Mike McQueary saw and eyewitnessed "a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky."
  • Mike McQueary "called his father, reporting to him what he had seen." from his office phone at Lasch while the incident was still "IN-PROGRESS"
  • Mike McQueary told John McQueary and Dr. Dranov that this is what he saw at the McQueary household directly after leaving Lasch and while the incident was still "IN-PROGRESS" as far as any of them knew!
  • Based on MM telling them "He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.", John McQueary and Dr. Dranov recommended to MM (and MM agreed) that Police did not need to be called, but instead Mike should "report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno (“Paterno”), head football coach of Penn State. The morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen."
All of these claims of the Indictment's listed "Probable Cause" and "particulars" can be shown to be UTTERLY FALSE and CONTRARY to what Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov testified to the Gand Jury and testified UNDER OATH and AT-TRIAL multiple times were false claims by the OAG in their Indictments! (and again, it is unclear whether JVP is asking a clarifying question of the OAG Examiner, whether he is stating that Mike provided conjecture that he [MM] thought it might have potentially been sexually motivated given the circumstances, etc., etc., etc., but he [JVP] ABSOLUTELY does not say that this is what Mike McQueary told him in regards to what he SAW and EYEWITNESSED nor would it COUNT as "at-trial" CORROBORATION of what MM said he saw and eyewitnessed especially when MM's own testimony as to what he said to JVP is EXCULPATORY in this regard!).

But given that Mike McQueary, John McQueary and Dr. Dranov all 100% agree that the "33rd SWIGJ Presentment" claims as to what MM "saw" and "eyewitnessed" AND told others what he "saw" and "eyewitnessed" are FACTUALLY FALSE (and clearly intentionally FRAUDULENT to support illegitimate Indictments), you've got some nerve making a statement like "It was accepted by everyone" and the ever ironic last sentence, "It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this."!!!

BTW, regarding your diametrically incorrect statement, "It was accepted by everyone", is that why 100% of the double-digit Felony Indictments for Perjury, Obstruction of Justice and Conspiracy brought against C/S/S in regards to PSU's handling of the 2001 Report (i.e., the seminal OP topic) were THROWN OUT BY THE COURT DUE TO PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT by the corrupt PA OAG, otherwise known as the Corbutt OG Porn Brigade (as in "orginal gang'sta")?!?!

So in your "opinion", 100% of the double-digit Indictments being discussed against the PSU3 being thrown out and quashed by the PA Judiciary due to clear, persistent and malicious "Prosecutorial Misconduct" is now strong evidence that the Corbutt OG Porn Brigade's Indictments, and accusations in the Indictments, was "Accepted by Everyone"???

IOW, your claim that the corrupt PA OAG's Indictment claims, assertions and charges (i.e., "Probable Cause") were "Accepted by Everyone" runs DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSITE the findings of the Court in regards to the Indictments being discussed in this string, but you aren't letting that FACT or the FACTUAL RECORD in regards to the proven FRAUDULENCE of the Indictments in question get in the way of your absurd, and PROVABLY FALSE, claim that the Indictments and the claims of the Indictments were "Accepted by Everyone"! Then you follow up this provably FALSE CLAIM as to the Indictments being discussed with this phucking doozy of an ironic, only-a-troll-could-make statement, "It is really sad that you have to be so dishonest about this."!

But you're not a troll making clearly troll-based FALSE, BULL$HIT STATEMENT (i.e., "FLAME") after FALSE, BULL$HIT STATEMENT!?!? Go figure! Why the moderators allow you and your PSU-troll bull$hit to persist on this board, only other PSU-trolls know!
 
TSM doesn't count. Hahahahaha!!!!!

Good one double-naught spy "we / us" Jethro-troll...
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jethrobodine.jpg

You've got everyone fooled...no really, you do! LMFAO! at you, you immature piece of garbage tool. Your concern for the welfare of the children is touching... What a loser you are who thinks Maliciously Prosecuting Universities and their Football Programs and hanging them in effigy is more important than the Welfare and Safety of the children being abused by the true criminals - the charities and the State Agencies that license and regulate them, the same State Agencies who provide children via State-Adoption and State Foster-Parenting to "Serial Pedophiles" and protect & shield them with the State imprimatur and Government corruption including rampant "abuse of public powers and authorities"!!!
 
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He doesn't debate on this subject, he trolls with the sole intent to rile people up. He's never added an interesting or intelligent point on this topic, just repeats the same lame argument over and over agaiin as if it's a fact. His posting history speaks for itself. Comical really.
What is my history?
 
Doesn't count!!!! If it did count this thread wouldn't exist dummy. GET SWIJJY WITH THE OAG!!!

Good one double-naught spy "we / us" Jethro-troll...
jethro.jpg
jethrobodine.jpg


You've got everyone fooled...no really, you do! LMFAO! at you, you immature piece of garbage tool. Your concern for the welfare of the children is touching... What a loser you are who thinks Maliciously Prosecuting Universities and their Football Programs and hanging them in effigy is more important than the Welfare and Safety of the children being abused by the true criminals - the charities and the State Agencies that license and regulate them, the same State Agencies who provide children via State-Adoption and State Foster-Parenting to "Serial Pedophiles" and protect & shield them with the State imprimatur and Government corruption including rampant "abuse of public powers and authorities"!!!
 
You dared to question PSU so you are bad! You need to follow the McAndrew boards narrative.

Good one double-naught spy "we / us" Jethro-troll...
jethro.jpg
jethrobodine.jpg


You've got everyone fooled...no really, you do! LMFAO! at you, you immature piece of garbage tool. Your concern for the welfare of the children is touching... What a loser you are who thinks Maliciously Prosecuting Universities and their Football Programs and hanging them in effigy is more important than the Welfare and Safety of the children being abused by the true criminals - the charities and the State Agencies that license and regulate them, the same State Agencies who provide children via State-Adoption and State Foster-Parenting to "Serial Pedophiles" and protect & shield them with the State imprimatur and Government corruption including rampant "abuse of public powers and authorities"!!!
 
These guys are all acting like I have the radical view of the Sandusky scandal and not them. It's amazing and hysterical at the same time.
Well that is what happens to people in isolation like those on this site. Your not saying the 3 guys are evil either. It's some weird self defense thing IMO. They can say everything they want about everyone else involved , but if you point out CSS's notes, emails, and own words...,you're an evil troll.

Now I'm trolling BODE for sure, but he's earned it....not to mention I love it when he snaps.
 
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What is my history?

You dared to question PSU so you are bad! You need to follow the McAndrew boards narrative.

These guys are all acting like I have the radical view of the Sandusky scandal and not them. It's amazing and hysterical at the same time.

Well that is what happens to people in isolation like those on this site. Your not saying the 3 guys are evil either. It's some weird self defense thing IMO. They can say everything they want about everyone else involved , but if you point out CSS's notes, emails, and own words...,you're an evil troll.

Now I'm trolling BODE for sure, but he's earned it....not to mention I love it when he snaps.

Wow, look at the two double-naught secret, Jethro posing-trolls getting all smoochy and cuddly in their hate of all things PSU and PSU Football - who'da ever thunk it, I thought they loved PSU and PSU Football more than life itself??? LMFAO!

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jethrobodine.jpg
 
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