ADVERTISEMENT

Official 2019 Champions League thread.

I don't think the "unnatural position" part is in the rule anywhere, but it's a standard that referees have used to determine whether an act was deliberate. So, basically, if the arm is in an unnatural position, they're willing to presume it was deliberate. But it's not a written rule, as far as I know.
Maybe it is not a written rule, I thought it was. That being said, I completely agree it was unintentional. However, the fact that his arm was flailing around in the box makes him suspect to having that called on him. That's why you see these defenders tuck their arms tightly as to not risk having the ball hit their arm while up in the air. Tough break, regardless. That's why you have to defend from whistle to whistle. Right from the start, Liverpool was able to catch the Spurs defenders on their heels and it turned into a quick goal. Game changer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wbcincy and TheGLOV
That’s the problem. It seems very clear to me and also clear to you the other way. That means the rule isn’t clear enough. I think reasonable people can disagree on the issue, but there has to be a better way to write the rule so that there is no ambiguity. I have seen referees interpret “deliberate” as if a player has to declare before the play, “I am handling it, now” in order to call it a handball. Maybe it adds spice to the game, because it spurs debate, but there has to be an unambiguous way to write the rule.
Agreed. Same goes for many other sports, especially college and pro football. Too many "grey" areas. You would think with that much money on the line, these organizations would be faced to make clearly stated rules and regulations. Just goes to show how strong their governing bodies are that they aren't held to a higher standard. Ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGLOV
It's a tough call. He puts his hand up to direct teammates, then tries to get it out of the way, which results in his arm hitting the ball downward after it hits his chest. So did he intend to deflect the ball away with his arm? No. But did make a deliberate movement with his arm that cause the ball to be deflected? Yes. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, you just can't put your arm out like that in the penalty area with the ball right in front of you. You're just asking for this to happen.

It was a great season for Tottenham. I'm really hoping they hang on to Poch and open the purse strings (I'll believe it when I see it) this summer.

As for Liverpool, congrats to you fans for an awesome season, one of the best in history. Can't say you didn't deserve the Cup, bad call or not.

Thank you!

It would also be nice of you to talk to me directly once again!

Even Manny encourages it sir.

;):);)
 
Maybe it is not a written rule, I thought it was. That being said, I completely agree it was unintentional. However, the fact that his arm was flailing around in the box makes him suspect to having that called on him. That's why you see these defenders tuck their arms tightly as to not risk having the ball hit their arm while up in the air. Tough break, regardless. That's why you have to defend from whistle to whistle. Right from the start, Liverpool was able to catch the Spurs defenders on their heels and it turned into a quick goal. Game changer.
Exactly. A defender tucks his arms because if the arm is up and the ball hits it, every ref in the world is going to call it.

Incidentally, I believe they are changing the rule so that it's no foul if the ball deflects before hitting the hand\arm. Tough break for the Tots.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alphabets
Exactly. A defender tucks his arms because if the arm is up and the ball hits it, every ref in the world is going to call it.

that's not completely accurate. Some defenders do tuck their arms when in the penalty area. However, most refs will not call a handball just because a ball hits the arm. If the ball is driven into the arm (shot/pass from close to the defender, where they have no chance to move the arm), a foul is rarely called. Refs are instructed, during their annual training, to avoid such calls. After I saw a video of the play in question, I was in a text chain with several soccer refs, and most of them felt the call was inaccurate, and that the PK should not have been awarded.

Incidentally, I believe they are changing the rule so that it's no foul if the ball deflects before hitting the hand\arm. Tough break for the Tots.

Correct. To expand on that, Law 12, which addresses handballs, is being extensively rewritten. The new changes took place at the FIFA level on June 1 of this year (i.e., the day of the game). FWIW, most of the revisions are simply putting into the Law what has been established in ref training for the past several years.

The change that would address the specific play in question reads as follows:

"Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player's hand/arm:
  • directly form the player's own head of body (including the foot)"
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGLOV
liverpoolparade020619ae.jpg
 
that's not completely accurate. Some defenders do tuck their arms when in the penalty area. However, most refs will not call a handball just because a ball hits the arm. If the ball is driven into the arm (shot/pass from close to the defender, where they have no chance to move the arm), a foul is rarely called. Refs are instructed, during their annual training, to avoid such calls. After I saw a video of the play in question, I was in a text chain with several soccer refs, and most of them felt the call was inaccurate, and that the PK should not have been awarded.



Correct. To expand on that, Law 12, which addresses handballs, is being extensively rewritten. The new changes took place at the FIFA level on June 1 of this year (i.e., the day of the game). FWIW, most of the revisions are simply putting into the Law what has been established in ref training for the past several years.

The change that would address the specific play in question reads as follows:

"Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player's hand/arm:
  • directly form the player's own head of body (including the foot)"

Two things:

1) When I saw the ball first strike his chest and then deflect downwards toward the arm my first reaction was that could not be a handball because the deliberate action taken was to chest trap the ball. I am still of that opinion, but think FIFA needs to provide a comprehensive law which addresses these things overtly instead of through mainly referee training. It would be more transparent and help the fans.

2) Will you please address the constant spamming of threads? I get he is the board clown and is allowed leeway, because he is a regular, but any thread in which he has interest immediately devolves into drivel. Even with the ignore feature it’s nearly unreadable.
 
Two things:

1) When I saw the ball first strike his chest and then deflect downwards toward the arm my first reaction was that could not be a handball because the deliberate action taken was to chest trap the ball. I am still of that opinion, but think FIFA needs to provide a comprehensive law which addresses these things overtly instead of through mainly referee training. It would be more transparent and help the fans.

2) Will you please address the constant spamming of threads? I get he is the board clown and is allowed leeway, because he is a regular, but any thread in which he has interest immediately devolves into drivel. Even with the ignore feature it’s nearly unreadable.

Come on Todd!

I come at you with the same humor and intensity that you come after me.

Stop crying wolf sir. You have expressed your hatred for Liverpool and how it eats at you. {Enjoy your summer sir - The World Champs say hi!}

You holding yourself in high standards is, well, downright laughable; clown-like!

I put it out there here and you:

YOU stop the insults, name-calling, flaming, not-even-so-much-as good-natured banter, etc. and I will follow suit all next season.

DEAL??

:)
 
I was going to choose a team based on who won on Saturday. I have changed my mind and will decide on which fans show the most class in this thread and the Premier League thread.

From this point forward......until the start of the next season. Have at it.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT