Official Graham Spanier trial thread.

[WeR0206]

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"They include Mike McQueary, the graduate student who reported seeing Sandusky shower with a boy in 2001."

Interesting. When this story was first reported on the media said MM eye witnessed the anal rape of a child. This is quite the change up.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/news/state/pennsylvania/article139612153.html#storylink=cpy

 

[bjf1991]

I can't see any of those witnesses boding particularly well for Spanier.

They can save some time vav Belcher and Coble - - - - and the "X-File"


Anything they could bring to the table has already been beaten like a rented mule.....and is already on the record.:

http://www.dauphincounty.org/government/Court-Departments/Curley-Schultz-Spanier/Documents/July 29, 2013 Preliminary Hearing Transcript 2 of 2.PDF

 

[kgilbert78]

They can save some time vav Belcher and Coble.


Anything they could bring to the table has already been beaten like a rented mule.....and is already on the record.:

http://www.dauphincounty.org/government/Court-Departments/Curley-Schultz-Spanier/Documents/July 29, 2013 Preliminary Hearing Transcript 2 of 2.PDF

I suspect the idea is to pile as many stones as high as you can and have the jury assume you've built a tower.....

 

[didier]

For the prosecution?

Yes

 

[marshall23]

Giving the OAG too much credit. They built a shoddy case at best vs JS. I doubt they have much. According to the surveys they don't need much to get a conviction and they know it.

 

[bjf1991]

I suspect the idea is to pile as many stones as high as you can and have the jury assume you've built a tower.....

I'd just be pleased if they brought some different stones to the affair.
The Coble/Belcher/Sassano/Harmon stones have been pretty well played out.

Maybe "confidential witness #1" will shed some light.

 

[JmmyW]

Courtney, Joan Coble and Kim Belcher on the list.

Where did you see their names listed? Did you hear any others.

FWIW, I was trying to guess who the prosecution might call. These are my notes from a couple days ago:

---
Who will the prosecution call?

The following testified at the first prelim:
Mike McQueary
Tom Harmon
John McQueary
Anthony Sassano

The following testified at the second prelim:
Mike McQueary
Tom Harmon
Joan Coble
Kim Belcher
John Corro
Lisa Powers
Braden Cook
Anthony Sassano

And we can add:
Curley
Schultz (who will probably go last per Lubrano)

And since EWOC includes details about who was endangered, and the amended decorum order mentions that the court artist can't draw any victim's face, we can add the following who were mentioned in the 11/1/2012 GJP:
Victim 3
Victim 5
Victim 9
Victim 1

Although the last two didn't testify to abuse on PSU property (the bill of particulars listed the Hilton Garden Inn & JS's residence for each), and the first one wasn't mentioned by the Commonwealth at the last hearing on 10/13/2016 (the other three were), they might only call Victim 5.

 

[BobPSU92]

I know, "you'll be here all week"....

I will. Aren't you glad?

 

[joeparules]

[QUOTE="— Victim 8: Boy of about 11 to 13, seen in late November 2000 by a university janitor allegedly being subjected to sexual abuse by Sandusky in the team showers. The janitor now has dementia and is not available to testify, but a co-worker testified to what the janitor told him. The boy has not been identified by investigators. Sandusky was convicted of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, unlawful contact with minor, corruption of minors, endangering a child's welfare.[/QUOTE]

This is the EXACT reason Curley and Schultz took the plea. Not because they are guilty of even the one EWOC misdemeanor, but third hand information from a janitor and no victim is apparently all you need in PA to be found guilty. This convinced me Amendola has to be the worst lawyer on the planet.

Wouldn't the fact this janitor and co-worker sat on this information and told no one for over ten years make them EWOC candidates?

 

[BobPSU92]

I suspect the idea is to pile as many stones as high as you can and have the jury assume you've built a tower.....

...when it's actually Jenga.

 

[roswelllion]

Victim 2 was the only one reported to PSU official. The others are irrelevant in this trial.

Well I'll be interested in his testimony. What day will that be?

 

[nits74]

Giving the OAG too much credit. They built a shoddy case at best vs JS. I doubt they have much. According to the surveys they don't need much to get a conviction and they know it.

Unfortunately, that has been the case throughout. I can remember very little good news from this over the last 5+ years. Sadly, I now expect that trend to continue. What a sham.

 

[Agoodnap]

Maybe "confidential witness #1" is...

free image upload

 

[MtNittany]

Maybe "confidential witness #1" is...

free image upload

John Lithgow?

 

[bkmtnittany1]

[QUOTE="— Victim 8: Boy of about 11 to 13, seen in late November 2000 by a university janitor allegedly being subjected to sexual abuse by Sandusky in the team showers. The janitor now has dementia and is not available to testify, but a co-worker testified to what the janitor told him. The boy has not been identified by investigators. Sandusky was convicted of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, unlawful contact with minor, corruption of minors, endangering a child's welfare.

This is the EXACT reason Curley and Schultz took the plea. Not because they are guilty of even the one EWOC misdemeanor, but third hand information from a janitor and no victim is apparently all you need in PA to be found guilty. This convinced me Amendola has to be the worst lawyer on the planet.

Wouldn't the fact this janitor and co-worker sat on this information and told no one for over ten years make them EWOC candidates?[/QUOTE]

The 2 janitors aren't EWOC candidates because they didn't coach football. That's why Dranov and elder Mcq get a pass as well.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Maybe "confidential witness #1" is...

free image upload

how do you know the confidential witness is a man?

 

[step.eng69]

Crowd hasn't changed.

Too funny Zeno

 

[clickhere 01]

John Lithgow?

Lol

 

[PSU65]

[QUOTE="— Victim 8: Boy of about 11 to 13, seen in late November 2000 by a university janitor allegedly being subjected to sexual abuse by Sandusky in the team showers. The janitor now has dementia and is not available to testify, but a co-worker testified to what the janitor told him. The boy has not been identified by investigators. Sandusky was convicted of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, unlawful contact with minor, corruption of minors, endangering a child's welfare.

This is the EXACT reason Curley and Schultz took the plea. Not because they are guilty of even the one EWOC misdemeanor, but third hand information from a janitor and no victim is apparently all you need in PA to be found guilty. This convinced me Amendola has to be the worst lawyer on the planet.

Wouldn't the fact this janitor and co-worker sat on this information and told no one for over ten years make them EWOC candidates?[/QUOTE]Seems like the deck's stacked against Spanier. He should have taken the same deal they did.

 

[didier]

Where did you see their names listed? Did you hear any others.

FWIW, I was trying to guess who the prosecution might call. These are my notes from a couple days ago:

---
Who will the prosecution call?

The following testified at the first prelim:
Mike McQueary
Tom Harmon
John McQueary
Anthony Sassano

The following testified at the second prelim:
Mike McQueary
Tom Harmon
Joan Coble
Kim Belcher
John Corro
Lisa Powers
Braden Cook
Anthony Sassano

And we can add:
Curley
Schultz (who will probably go last per Lubrano)

And since EWOC includes details about who was endangered, and the amended decorum order mentions that the court artist can't draw any victim's face, we can add the following who were mentioned in the 11/1/2012 GJP:
Victim 3
Victim 5
Victim 9
Victim 1

Although the last two didn't testify to abuse on PSU property (the bill of particulars listed the Hilton Garden Inn & JS's residence for each), and the first one wasn't mentioned by the Commonwealth at the last hearing on 10/13/2016 (the other three were), they might only call Victim 5.

WTAE. Other than the confidential witness I know of no others attm.

 

[didier]

Where did you see their names listed? Did you hear any others.

FWIW, I was trying to guess who the prosecution might call. These are my notes from a couple days ago:

---
Who will the prosecution call?

The following testified at the first prelim:
Mike McQueary
Tom Harmon
John McQueary
Anthony Sassano

The following testified at the second prelim:
Mike McQueary
Tom Harmon
Joan Coble
Kim Belcher
John Corro
Lisa Powers
Braden Cook
Anthony Sassano

And we can add:
Curley
Schultz (who will probably go last per Lubrano)

And since EWOC includes details about who was endangered, and the amended decorum order mentions that the court artist can't draw any victim's face, we can add the following who were mentioned in the 11/1/2012 GJP:
Victim 3
Victim 5
Victim 9
Victim 1

Although the last two didn't testify to abuse on PSU property (the bill of particulars listed the Hilton Garden Inn & JS's residence for each), and the first one wasn't mentioned by the Commonwealth at the last hearing on 10/13/2016 (the other three were), they might only call Victim 5.

AP saying police investigators and university staff aware of previous (pre 2001) incidents in the list. No names although I can guess a few.

 

[canuckhal]

What does MM taking the stand add to the trial? If he didn't speak with Spanier, then is it just to corrobate what he said to Curley and Schultz? Spanier said he didn't know MM was the one who witnessed Sandusky in the shower. Could MM rebut that account? Should be interesting.

 

[interrobang]

Short of there being stone cold evidence like Curley saying "MM told us of abuse, let's ignore it" then MM has to testify, otherwise, how can you prove that there was any context that a child was in danger?

 

[Roxine]

I'd like to know too - does the Public get a seat First Come First Served? Or - do you get a day pass from the court administrator? If so - doors open at 8 am, so when does "the line" form & where exactly?

Public admitted between 8 am and 8:15 am Courtroom 1, 5th floor Dauphin County Courthouse - 100 Chestnut Street, Harrisburg, PA. Public enters on Market Street

 

[artsandletters]

Public admitted between 8 am and 8:15 am Courtroom 1, 5th floor Dauphin County Courthouse - 100 Chestnut Street, Harrisburg, PA. Public enters on Market Street

Is the actual trial starting tomorrow or Wednesday? Have there been seats available?

 

[lubrano]

Confidential witness likely to be Victim 5 represented by Tom Kline.

If so, then what approach would you use to examine him?

 

[canuckhal]

Short of there being stone cold evidence like Curley saying "MM told us of abuse, let's ignore it" then MM has to testify, otherwise, how can you prove that there was any context that a child was in danger?

Let's say MM testifies he told Curley and Schultz it was abuse, but CS testify they said horseplay to Spanier. What difference does this make if MM didn't speak with Spanier? And if CS say they told Spanier it was abuse, why do they need MM?

 

[canuckhal]

Confidential witness likely to be Victim 5 represented by Tom Kline.

If so, then what approach would you use to examine him?

What was victim's 5 relationship to Spanier? Or to Curley and Schultz?

 

[Art]

Let's say MM testifies he told Curley and Schultz it was abuse, but CS testify they said horseplay to Spanier. What difference does this make if MM didn't speak with Spanier? And if CS say they told Spanier it was abuse, why do they need MM?

It's simple: they're retrying Sandusky and laying it in the lap of Spanier.

 

[step.eng69]

What does MM taking the stand add to the trial? If he didn't speak with Spanier, then is it just to corrobate what he said to Curley and Schultz? Spanier said he didn't know MM was the one who witnessed Sandusky in the shower. Could MM rebut that account? Should be interesting.

Really, not trying to be scarcastic, but.....
Let me count the ways. MM isn't known for contiguous statments from trial to trial.

 

[Raffycorn]

Confidential witness likely to be Victim 5 represented by Tom Kline.

If so, then what approach would you use to examine him?

Will you be in attendance showing your support this week?

 

[canuckhal]

It's simple: they're retrying Sandusky and laying it in the lap of Spanier.

Maybe I'm having a dense day, but I'm still missing the connection. Even if MM says abuse, he never talked to Spanier. Unless there is some connection to Spanier, I don't get it. Wouldn't prosecution have to prove someone told Spanier of abuse and he didn't do anything or tried to hide it. That could be Curley and/or Schultz or someone else?

 

[Roxine]

Is the actual trial starting tomorrow or Wednesday? Have there been seats available?

Opening Statements begin tomorrow. I wasn't there today but was told it is about the same size as Sandusky's court room - so probably will hold 100-200 people

 

[canuckhal]

Really, not trying to be scarcastic, but.....
Let me count the ways. MM isn't known for contiguous statments from trial to trial.

Agree. That is why I said interesting. What version of his story will he be peddling? Maybe a new account.

 

[Raffycorn]

What was victim's 5 relationship to Spanier? Or to Curley and Schultz?

Victim 5 testified that Sandusky tried to assault him in the Lasch showers sometime in 2001 - although I don't recall the date (if he testified to one). If they're calling V5, it could be to demonstrate that Spanier's actions in handling the McQueary report in February 2001 helped lead to the abuse of more children on Penn State property, or that more children were abused on Penn State property after their failure to properly handle the McQueary report.

 

[Ski]

Appreciate your opinion and advice. As I've said before - I've posted here about 160 times in 4 years.

Public message board. If you don't like what I post - don't read it.

Thanks
Roxine

Good advice. You've made the ignore list.

 

[dshumbero]

Opening Statements begin tomorrow. I wasn't there today but was told it is about the same size as Sandusky's court room - so probably will hold 100-200 people

Was Andrea DiMorphio there?

 

[hawkeyePSU]

I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and cover up. Except mine occurred in my own family. So the reason I am so in tune with this topic is because when this story broke, it was the first time I spoke out about my abuse. It is very personal to me. It gave me the voice to talk about the sexual abuse I suffered as a child at the hands of my grandfather for the first time in over 30 years.

I hold multiple degrees and while not specifically in psychology, I have studied child sexual abuse because of the abuse I suffered.

I went to the link you provided Roxine then clicked on Jerry Sandusky at the bottom. To my surprise I didn't see any articles or comments from you about the organization that provided Jerry access to these kids, only articles about PSU admins and Joe Paterno. Why is that? If you're truly trying to understand the root cause then why wouldn't you be advocating for an investigation into TSM, CYS etc.?

 

[artsandletters]

Opening Statements begin tomorrow. I wasn't there today but was told it is about the same size as Sandusky's court room - so probably will hold 100-200 people

I wanna see witnesses being questioned, not all that blather. You can smoke in the courtroom, right? LOL

 

[step.eng69]

Confidential witness likely to be Victim 5 represented by Tom Kline.

If so, then what approach would you use to examine him?

IIRC, Tom Kline is tied closely to Ira, and has considerable university contributions (not to PSU)-Drexel maybe?. Too many moving parts for me, memory loss.

I'm no Joe Paterno, being 68 years old is getting to be a b**ch for me.