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Olympic qualifier in Mongolia

Gor is in the semis vs. Batirov, so Frank is still alive.

Cox 4-1 over Baranowski (Poland), into the semis.
 
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This is how I feel about soccer of which I'm sure Foley is a huge fan. Freestyle is a lot cooler if it's ref'd the way it's supposed to be
I love soccer - played it in college until my knees said no mas, then played pickup until around age 35 when my knees really said no mas. I HATE US soccer dorks. I usually watch by myself so I don't have to look at their euro-posing and listen to the pretentious drivel.

I'm positive Foley likes the whole idea of soccer because of its supposed "nuances" as a counterpoint to our less sophisticated pastimes.
 
I love soccer - played it in college until my knees said no mas, then played pickup until around age 35 when my knees really said no mas. I HATE US soccer dorks. I usually watch by myself so I don't have to look at their euro-posing and listen to the pretentious drivel.

I'm positive Foley likes the whole idea of soccer because of its supposed "nuances" as a counterpoint to our less sophisticated pastimes.

Not a big fan unless it's the Cup or USA vs Mexico. When we win, I get to stick it in my in laws face who root for Mexico. I played soccer as well but in Arizona, they played it during wrestling season. Fun game, but sucks to watch unless live...kind of like baseball for those not into it. Hate that there are draws and the faking and flopping. Glad the Americans don't do that a lot

Our soccer fans would say I don't get the strategy but it seems pretty simple.
 
Btw, thanks for the updates. Holed up in a resort in Scottsdale with the wife cause she's getting her masters on Monday. Getting the stinkeye for just posting much less watching matches.
 
The all-time best was when Nick Simmons spladled a guy from Moldova at 2011 Worlds. The ref never saw a spladle before and cluelessly gave the opponent exposure points even though he was sniffing his own butt. Simmons had to tell the ref to check for the pin.


I never would have walked again. Damn Simmons just kept going farther and farther.
 
J'Den Cox takes gold at 86kg and qualifies the weight. The int'l guys haven't seen anything like him, he poses real matchup problems.

But like Frank, he had to fight through some bad refs. In his semi match he got put on the clock twice for passivity despite being the only one initiating action.

I think int'l refs give stalling a pass so long as you're moving a bit in a collar tie-up, and unfairly penalize wrestlers who set their shots up from space. Frustrating to watch a completely different match from the one you know the ref is watching.
 
Thx, Where did Gor /Frank end up?
Gor took 3rd. Since he didn't make finals that elim'd Frank. On to Turkey - I think Frank has to make Finals to qualify. There are some weights picked by Olympic committee but wouldnt count on that
 
Gor lost in the semis, so Frank was eliminated. Gor himself took 3rd and qualified Turkey, beating out Boris Novachkov (Bulgaria) who wrestled for Cal Poly.
Thanks for that reference; I recall Novachkov taking 3rd at 141 in 2012....narrowly lost to Montel Marion and came back for 3rd. Kellen Russell won what was a pretty good weight class.
 
Gor took 3rd. Since he didn't make finals that elim'd Frank. On to Turkey - I think Frank has to make Finals to qualify. There are some weights picked by Olympic committee but wouldnt count on that

Thanks. Tough when your dream is in someone else's hands
 
Nice work PS85
Please, the credit goes to a Matt Mace on the Ohio board. I just cut and pasted, which is in line with my computer skill set.

I see you survived the stinkeye!! At least these videos give you another 30 minutes of time while the wife studies.
 
well the good news is Frank is right there... here is to the next two weeks..... wonder if he'll come home or stay in over there?
 
I only watched the semi match so far, but those who say that passivity gets called on the guy not controlling the center needs to watch that. I like FS, but that was nonsense.
 
The International style: Wait for passivity to be called, then push your opponent out of bounds, win match.
 
I only watched the semi match so far, but those who say that passivity gets called on the guy not controlling the center needs to watch that. I like FS, but that was nonsense.
Agree. Both were pathetic calls. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching judging from cold war Olympic figure skating where the result is known before the event, and only an outlier performance can change it.
 
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well the good news is Frank is right there... here is to the next two weeks..... wonder if he'll come home or stay in over there?
I'd go straight to Turkey myself. The wear and tear on the body to do that with a two week turnaround is difficult. I know, I've done it. It wouldn't cost anything more (and maybe less) to train in Turkey for two weeks than to come home. And he gets a couple more days of training in. I hope they went this route.
 
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Agree. Both were pathetic calls. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching judging from cold war Olympic figure skating where the result is known before the event, and only an outlier performance can change it.
Or Roy Jones Jr at the 1988 Olympics in South Korea.

I'm not entirely sold that the reason US wrestlers don't get calls has to do with political bias or corruption, though I think the latter reason probably accounts for a lot of bad referees; the IOC is the head of a long-rotting fish. Plus, freestyle wrestling seems structurally susceptible to corruption. The rules allow for significant discretion, beyond passivity calls even.

And the rules are also kind of byzantine; in the Garrett Ramos match at the OTT who knew that a last-30 second caution point can't be awarded if one of the panel white paddles it? Not Garrett's corner, that's for sure. Coleman Scott, and evidently his corner, thought he won on criteria against Ramos when he'd actually lost. On one hand, both corners were at fault for not fully understanding the rules, but on the other, the rules are complicated and change all the time, which seems to disfavor us at the int'l level.

Also, I think US wrestlers make it easier for refs to hit them with passivity calls because they wrestle a different style. Int'l guys tie up quicker and stay tied up longer, whereas US wrestlers break ties and shoot from space. Refs, sincerely or otherwise, can interpret the unwillingness to tie up as passivity, even when the US guy took the only five shots of the match. I've noticed this before but it was really obvious in J'Den Cox's run.
 
Or Roy Jones Jr at the 1988 Olympics in South Korea.

I'm not entirely sold that the reason US wrestlers don't get calls has to do with political bias or corruption, though I think the latter reason probably accounts for a lot of bad referees; the IOC is the head of a long-rotting fish. Plus, freestyle wrestling seems structurally susceptible to corruption. The rules allow for significant discretion, beyond passivity calls even.

And the rules are also kind of byzantine; in the Garrett Ramos match at the OTT who knew that a last-30 second caution point can't be awarded if one of the panel white paddles it? Not Garrett's corner, that's for sure. Coleman Scott, and evidently his corner, thought he won on criteria against Ramos when he'd actually lost. On one hand, both corners were at fault for not fully understanding the rules, but on the other, the rules are complicated and change all the time, which seems to disfavor us at the int'l level.

Also, I think US wrestlers make it easier for refs to hit them with passivity calls because they wrestle a different style. Int'l guys tie up quicker and stay tied up longer, whereas US wrestlers break ties and shoot from space. Refs, sincerely or otherwise, can interpret the unwillingness to tie up as passivity, even when the US guy took the only five shots of the match. I've noticed this before but it was really obvious in J'Den Cox's run.
A few months ago I read about the Roy Jones Jr case -- it was a fascinating story about culture.

Recall that he faced a Korean in Seoul -- a possible national hero.

In Asia, "saving face" is paramount. Jones beat his opponent so convincingly that everybody knew it would be a unanimous decision. So 3 of 5 judges scored the other way, to let the Korean "save face" by losing 4-1 instead of 5-0. The judges weren't allowed to consult, so each of those 3 judges thought he was the only one. They had no idea they had screwed Jones until the Korean was announced as the winner.

Apparently the judges were distraught at having screwed Jones but it was too late. They couldn't admit what they did because that would humiliate the Korean.
 
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I'd go straight to Turkey myself. The wear and tear on the body to do that with a two week turnaround is difficult. I know, I've done it. It wouldn't cost anything more (and maybe less) to train in Turkey for two weeks than to come home. And he gets a couple more days of training in. I hope they went this route.
Many of us are a little fuzzy on our world geography. After looking it up, Mongolia to Turkey is a decent sized trip. But, agree, way better to do that than go back and forth from the USA.

Best of luck, Frank; you can do it.
 
Many of us are a little fuzzy on our world geography. After looking it up, Mongolia to Turkey is a decent sized trip. But, agree, way better to do that than go back and forth from the USA.

Best of luck, Frank; you can do it.
Yes, Mongolia to Turkey is 6 time zones of travel. Beijing to Istanbul most likely, so air/airport time is much more. Mongolia to PA is 13 zones, and PA to Turkey is another 7 time zones for 20 total. That would be a brutal almost around the world trip. No thanks.
 
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Or Roy Jones Jr at the 1988 Olympics in South Korea.

I'm not entirely sold that the reason US wrestlers don't get calls has to do with political bias or corruption, though I think the latter reason probably accounts for a lot of bad referees; the IOC is the head of a long-rotting fish. Plus, freestyle wrestling seems structurally susceptible to corruption. The rules allow for significant discretion, beyond passivity calls even.

And the rules are also kind of byzantine; in the Garrett Ramos match at the OTT who knew that a last-30 second caution point can't be awarded if one of the panel white paddles it? Not Garrett's corner, that's for sure. Coleman Scott, and evidently his corner, thought he won on criteria against Ramos when he'd actually lost. On one hand, both corners were at fault for not fully understanding the rules, but on the other, the rules are complicated and change all the time, which seems to disfavor us at the int'l level.

Also, I think US wrestlers make it easier for refs to hit them with passivity calls because they wrestle a different style. Int'l guys tie up quicker and stay tied up longer, whereas US wrestlers break ties and shoot from space. Refs, sincerely or otherwise, can interpret the unwillingness to tie up as passivity, even when the US guy took the only five shots of the match. I've noticed this before but it was really obvious in J'Den Cox's run.

I definitely agree with this. I think Americans look at legs attacks as signs of aggressive wrestling whereas internationally controlling ties and mat area is what they are looking for. As soon as I started watching freestyle matches with this in mind, passivity calls became a lot more consistent to me.

Obviously there are still some very bad refs out there though and I agree that is because of the IOC influence on things.
 
A few months ago I read about the Roy Jones Jr case -- it was a fascinating story about culture.

Recall that he faced a Korean in Seoul -- a possible national hero.

In Asia, "saving face" is paramount. Jones beat his opponent so convincingly that everybody knew it would be a unanimous decision. So 3 of 5 judges scored the other way, to let the Korean "save face" by losing 4-1 instead of 5-0. The judges weren't allowed to consult, so each of those 3 judges thought he was the only one. They had no idea they had screwed Jones until the Korean was announced as the winner.

Apparently the judges were distraught at having screwed Jones but it was too late. They couldn't admit what they did because that would humiliate the Korean.

I also used to like the Roy-Jones-Jr-"accidental"-robbery story for the same reason -- it seemed to be a fascinating story about culture and unintended consequences. Unfortunately, what seemed a neat, clean case study about "unintended" consequences turns out to be more complicated: there seems to have been bribery involved:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/feb/15/olympic-moments-roy-jones-jr
 
Good thread. Helpful to us latecomers.

Keep up the good internetting, friendos.
 
He came home.
Good. His 1.5 weeks in between trips will be much easier mentally at home with his wife and baby.

Also, he'll have an opportunity to do some situation-specific drilling for a week or so -- protecting the boundary, avoiding the shot clock. It's easy to say he was hosed by the Gor "takedown" call, and he was, but he could've absorbed that bad call if he hadn't given up those other points. And they're things he can drill at home and improve upon in a week.
 
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