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On the Verge at 49/57

GogglesPaizano said:
Ultimately much Ado about nothing. Brady will be working the backside of either bracket to get some points, and I bet we get about 5 points from both weights max combined regardless of the makeup. There is even a slight chance we head into nationals with both DNQ.

The good news is more points for sure at 125, Hwt, and most l likely at 149 and 197. They guy we really need to deliver is Beau. He could provide anywhere from 0-12.
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What you say is money! If we get a few points out of 57-65 ….. that’s gravy. In Detroit, what Beau does at 49 will be the difference between a very close race and a bit of breathing room. Beau might want to think about how a more offensive performance at BIGs and Detroit will alter his sense of self as he prepares for next season at 41.
 
Lyons212 said:
I am not buying Berge has a difficult time getting to 165. He had no visible issues last year at 157 that would indicate a weight management issue, i.e. gassing in the match, looking sucked out. His first 3 matches this year at 165, again no visible issues with weight management. Are we to believe that an experienced wrestler, coming out of retirement, moving up a weight class, is suddenly having weight management issues? The match against Marinelli, not the first time someone at Carver has gotten man handled by a physical wrestler. That may have been the impetuous to go to 157, the reality that he will really struggle against the physical wrestlers at 165.

I believe Berge is descending to 157.
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Yea, don't disagree. Everyone is coming at it from the angle of "why would Cael have him wrestle at 65 if he was going to descend to 57......". The reality is that it may have been Berge's decision to test the waters at 65 and..... it may have been Berge's decision to try 57 after the Marinelli match as he just likes his chances better at 57. The timing may have been just coincidental as that was his last opportunity to make the cut and get some matches in @57 prior to post season due to weight reduction rules.
 
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I was firmly on the Berge to 157 train until after the Bull match. I just don't know how anyone develops a gas tank down 8 lbs in 30 days. Consequently, I think his potential is close to even at either weight.
 
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GogglesPaizano said:
I was firmly on the Berge to 157 train until after the Bull match. I just don't know how anyone develops a gas tank down 8 lbs in 30 days. Consequently, I think his potential is close to even at either weight.
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Does anybody know what he weighed in at against Iowa? Without that data about half the responses are kind of silly. Sorry if I missed it.
 
GogglesPaizano said:
I was firmly on the Berge to 157 train until after the Bull match. I just don't know how anyone develops a gas tank down 8 lbs in 30 days. Consequently, I think his potential is close to even at either weight.
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After the top 2 at 157, there is a significant drop off compared to 165, which gives Berge a better chance to go deeper on the backside if he makes the cut. I didn't see Berge's issue at 165 with the Bull being a gas tank issue. Simply put, he was overpowered and his defensive prowess is no where near at 165 what it was at 157. Even if Berge making the cut is a wash as it relates to him scoring at the NCAAs, it is still a little upgrade to have Edsell at 165 vs. Barraclough/Negron at 157.

$.02
 
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Ski said:
After the top 2 at 157, there is a significant drop off compared to 165, which gives Berge a better chance to go deeper on the backside if he makes the cut. I didn't see Berge's issue at 165 with the Bull being a gas tank issue. Simply put, he was overpowered and his defensive prowess is no where near at 165 what it was at 157. Even if Berge making the cut is a wash as it relates to him scoring at the NCAAs, it is still a little upgrade to have Edsell at 165 vs. Barraclough/Negron at 157.

$.02
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Here was Wyatt Sheets path on the backside to AA last year as the 33 seed:
McCoy
Devos
Lovett
Brady (MFF)

Now Brady beat Young so you can normally expect maybe a 4/5 seed guy at that R12 spot and (going off of Willie's crystal ball) that would be someone like Brayton Lee or Peyton Robb.

If Brady entered 165 as a 12 seed and loses 2nd round to someone like Shane Griffith, he is looking at a 2/7 seed loser if he can make it to R12. At 165? That could be someone like Kharchla.

If he loses R12 in both scenario, it's the same amount of points anyways. Brady isn't picking up bonus on many.

Really, it comes down to if Brady feels good at 157 and I'm guessing that's what the next month is for.
 
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PSU Mike said:
Does anybody know what he weighed in at against Iowa? Without that data about half the responses are kind of silly. Sorry if I missed it.
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You did not miss it. The answer is no one knows. To your point, if we knew what he weighed at Iowa, we would have a pretty good indication what is happening.
 
Ski said:
After the top 2 at 157, there is a significant drop off compared to 165, which gives Berge a better chance to go deeper on the backside if he makes the cut. I didn't see Berge's issue at 165 with the Bull being a gas tank issue. Simply put, he was overpowered and his defensive prowess is no where near at 165 what it was at 157. Even if Berge making the cut is a wash as it relates to him scoring at the NCAAs, it is still a little upgrade to have Edsell at 165 vs. Barraclough/Negron at 157.

$.02
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I think there is little doubt that 157 is by far less of a meat grinder than 165. If Brady came in from the start in October at 157, I would feel pretty damned good about his prospects this year, likely top 4.

At this elite level, simply coming in out of retirement in January up a weight is not so easy a task.

The Bull physically horses everyone around, so I am less concerned about that than Brady being broken and without question 'spent' the last minute of that match.

I think it a bit of a fools errand simply to say 157 is a thinner class, thus Brady is an auto AA. I think his body has obviously changed a bit and even with a carefully controlled decent, one more month of conditioning is probably not enough to counter what we should all expect is a smaller gas tank at 157 than 165.

I absolutely believe Brady is our best answer at either weight, but on balance given the risks and realities of the competition, and a cut, his prospects are about the same at either weight for different reasons - probably blood round.

There is no free lunch, not having him condition since October at weight, plus getting in 15 matches and a proper seed has the deck stacked against him at both weights. I see his situation not totally dissimilar to Beau last year. Beau ended up being just a whisker shy of some great things, but the lack of a volume of matches and a proper seed really hurt him and the team.
 
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Ja1339 said:
Perhaps @corbyV was fed false information? 😲

I mean, we know Cael was reluctant to share the scoop with the public, so…
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Entirely possible but I think he’s right on this one. My guess is he was already on his way down when he wrestled Bull but sometime after that match it was determined a cut to 157 will be too much for him to wrestle effectively. We shall see. Wouldn’t seem right if we were heading into March and PSU fans aren’t guessing about at least one thing with our lineup. Lol
 
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District four said:
I still can't wrap my head around Cael having him go 157. Nothing about it makes sense including the risk reward scenario just take the points at 165 we don't need 157 to win. I truly believe this was Brady's idea and not Cael's. Cael said sure why not you can man 165 since you earned it the last three or four years. Why ask him to drop and then have to wrestle all the way back on the backside makes no sense. Not saying it won't happen but it's hard to fathom
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The coaches do not tell the wrestlers what weight to wrestle. The wrestlers decide
And the coaches do their best to support the wrestlers. The team is a team at all times.
 
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Someone is playing games with you guys. Berge will not be at 157. The weight comment was about 165. I don't go off hearsay I like facts and the fact is Berge will not be 157 and was never cutting down to 157
 
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corbyV said:
Someone is playing games with you guys. Berge will not be at 157. The weight comment was about 165. I don't go off hearsay I like facts and the fact is Berge will not be 157 and was never cutting down to 157
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Now that is just going to enhance the David Carr rumors.
 
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corbyV said:
Someone is playing games with you guys. Berge will not be at 157. The weight comment was about 165. I don't go off hearsay I like facts and the fact is Berge will not be 157 and was never cutting down to 157
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Nobody's playing games. Some people aren't listening to you because they had their minds made up.
 
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El-Jefe said:
Nobody's playing games. Some people aren't listening to you because they had their minds made up.
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They just want it to happen so they make themselves believe it. I know fan is short for fanatic but I never understood just making things up and running with them.
 
corbyV said:
They just want it to happen so they make themselves believe it. I know fan is short for fanatic but I never understood just making things up and running with them.
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Yeah, but how do you really feel about the topic? 🤪

 
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corbyV said:
They just want it to happen so they make themselves believe it. I know fan is short for fanatic but I never understood just making things up and running with them.
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giphy-downsized-large.gif
 
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I for one I’m excited to see Terrell at the Big Ten tournament. He seems to be figuring some things out at the right time; who knows, maybe he’ll surprise us all. I also hope Brady is doing well, but if for some reason he’s not going to be available, Creighton is another dude that I’ll be excited to watch compete.
 
corbyV said:
Someone is playing games with you guys. Berge will not be at 157. The weight comment was about 165. I don't go off hearsay I like facts and the fact is Berge will not be 157 and was never cutting down to 157
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I am equally amazed that some think you can simply take a 165 lb Berge, make him a 157 lber with the snap of a finger and he is the same wrestler only lighter in a class that's not as deep. Viola we have ourselves a top 4.

Maybe, if he made the descent starting 6 months ago, but if he were to miraculously showed up at Bigs at 157, I am not so sure we would like the result.

I was all in on Berge at 157 2 months ago before we knew, but now, not so much. Like it or not he gassed vs Marinelli pretty good late in the 3rd. 8 additional lbs is a LOT. He needs the next 30 days to build stamina and maintain weight up at 165 and roll the dice and see what happens.
 
Johnbrooks said:
The coaches do not tell the wrestlers what weight to wrestle. The wrestlers decide
And the coaches do their best to support the wrestlers. The team is a team at all times.
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Great, now what the hell are we gonna gripe about?.

You’ll get no like from me MR BROOKS😜
 
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El-Jefe said:
Nobody's playing games. Some people aren't listening to you because they had their minds made up.
Click to expand...

Some folks listened to Cael when he was asked basically if Brady was cutting to 157 or was getting his weight straightened out for 165 and he said "Both, if that makes sense." Combine it with missing a couple of matches and no one made anything up. Could he have tried to make the descent and decided to skip it? Maybe. But when someone is at 165 for the season then all of a sudden is needing weeks to make 165 it is going to raise some questions that are not illogical.

Berge is 165. Great!
 
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Ski said:
Some folks listened to Cael when he was asked basically if Brady was cutting to 157 or was getting his weight straightened out for 165 and he said "Both, if that makes sense." Combine it with missing a couple of matches and no one made anything up. Could he have tried to make the descent and decided to skip it? Maybe. But when someone is at 165 for the season then all of a sudden is needing weeks to make 165 it is going to raise some questions that are not illogical.

Berge is 165. Great!
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Add to that that the PSU coaches are part of the group that ranks the designated starters at 165 and Edsel’s name shows up as the starter, . . .I guess a case could be made that Berge doesn’t have enough matches for a ranking, but it was my impression that this was designated starters.

if it’s 165, go get ‘em, but I’ll be the first to admit that I didn’t like what I saw vs the Bull. Yes, he gassed, but did he gas because of the weight cut or because he was mauled by a guy who has yet to finish above 6 at the tourney? Interesting that he didn’t gas at the weight vs Amine and a couple of others.
 
KCLion said:
Add to that that the PSU coaches are part of the group that ranks the designated starters at 165 and Edsel’s name shows up as the starter, . . .I guess a case could be made that Berge doesn’t have enough matches for a ranking, but it was my impression that this was designated starters.

if it’s 165, go get ‘em, but I’ll be the first to admit that I didn’t like what I saw vs the Bull. Yes, he gassed, but did he gas because of the weight cut or because he was mauled by a guy who has yet to finish above 6 at the tourney? Interesting that he didn’t gas at the weight vs Amine and a couple of others.
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I know we all love referencing Marinelli's NCAA struggles, but he's probably the best "guy who has yet to finish above 6 at the tourney" in the past few years (if not longer). The guy is a 3-time B1G champ who took 3 out of 4 matches from Cenzo.

I don't know if his NCAA struggles are bad luck, his style catching up to him, or injuries. Probably a mix of all of them. But given the circumstances, I wasn't shocked or overly concerned by Berge's match with him. I had no illusions or expectations that Berge was going to come back from "retirement" and, within a month, give Bull a good match.
 
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Ski said:
Some folks listened to Cael when he was asked basically if Brady was cutting to 157 or was getting his weight straightened out for 165 and he said "Both, if that makes sense." Combine it with missing a couple of matches and no one made anything up. Could he have tried to make the descent and decided to skip it? Maybe. But when someone is at 165 for the season then all of a sudden is needing weeks to make 165 it is going to raise some questions that are not illogical.

Berge is 165. Great!
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Sure ... up until Corby debunked it the first time.
 
ss7 said:
I know we all love referencing Marinelli's NCAA struggles, but he's probably the best "guy who has yet to finish above 6 at the tourney" in the past few years (if not longer). The guy is a 3-time B1G champ who took 3 out of 4 matches from Cenzo.

I don't know if his NCAA struggles are bad luck, his style catching up to him, or injuries. Probably a mix of all of them. But given the circumstances, I wasn't shocked or overly concerned by Berge's match with him. I had no illusions or expectations that Berge was going to come back from "retirement" and, within a month, give Bull a good match.
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I didn’t have any dreams of a victory, but I guess I had hoped he would be somewhat competitive.
 
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corbyV said:
I don't go off hearsay I like facts and the fact is Berge will not be 157 and was never cutting down to 157
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Yeah, the rampant speculation gets about as old as those implying inside knowledge but not willing to cite their source. Those who truly know usually stay quiet until the wrestler/team makes an official announcement (Mineo excluded). As for the rest, its all guesswork and rational people can read the same tea leaves differently.

Are you speaking for Berge here? If so, say so. If not, you may want to doublecheck your definition of hearsay and facts.
 
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ss7 said:
I know we all love referencing Marinelli's NCAA struggles, but he's probably the best "guy who has yet to finish above 6 at the tourney" in the past few years (if not longer). The guy is a 3-time B1G champ who took 3 out of 4 matches from Cenzo.

I don't know if his NCAA struggles are bad luck, his style catching up to him, or injuries. Probably a mix of all of them. But given the circumstances, I wasn't shocked or overly concerned by Berge's match with him. I had no illusions or expectations that Berge was going to come back from "retirement" and, within a month, give Bull a good match.
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And at carver? Nah bull was mauling anyone we ran out there at that weight
 
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